doug_or
Posts: 3122
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:16 am

A month or two ago someone mentioned they thought US (with HP metal) would be starting PDX-PHL in april. Any updates? Confirm/deny?
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
AC773
Posts: 1700
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:52 am

I too really want to know about this...
Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:12 am

I heard about that myself, I checked USAirways website to see what service they have for PDX-PHL, and unfortunately they still had flights connecting in places like LAS, ORD, PHX, and SFO... I am not sure what the deal is...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 2):
I checked USAirways website to see what service they have for PDX-PHL, and unfortunately they still had flights connecting in places like LAS, ORD, PHX, and SFO... I am not sure what the deal is...

It was just a rumor. US never came out with it, so it shouldn't be on the website. Now, whether it happens, I am not sure. I would imagine it will. We will just have to wait and see. Maybe when the 190's come, which will free up some birds.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
HPRamper
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:39 pm

It's still officially in "rumor" status, although this "rumor" comes with dates and times. So, I'll say unofficially, sometime in early June, a turn coming into PDX at around 9 or 10pm and heading redeye straight back to PHL. On HP metal, probably A319 at first. By this time, HP will be on the C concourse here at PDX.
From what I've been hearing, US is going to be announcing even further expansion this year which will knock some socks off. At least one destination that nobody is expecting.
 
Sean-SAN-
Posts: 690
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:00 pm

LAS-HNL-NRT tag-on?? I'll keep dreaming til it happens  Wink
 
SonOfACaptain
Posts: 1695
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 5:36 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:50 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 4):
From what I've been hearing, US is going to be announcing even further expansion this year which will knock some socks off. At least one destination that nobody is expecting.

Is this all you have heard, or is there more?

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 5):
LAS-HNL-NRT tag-on?? I'll keep dreaming til it happens

Mind if I join your dream?

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:08 pm

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 6):
Is this all you have heard, or is there more?

There's more, but I'm not going to divulge anything...any announcements are still months away in all likelihood. It would be pretty rude to my source to let it out in the open, not to mention I could get in some trouble.

Quoting Sean-SAN- (Reply 5):
LAS-HNL-NRT tag-on?? I'll keep dreaming til it happens

lol, no, let's just say HNL will not be part of the picture. Maybe that will clear it up a bit.
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:15 pm

US would need a bunch more widebodies and quick if they were going to announce anything trans-Pacific. They're stretching the current fleet to the limit as it is.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
flypdx
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 4):
HP metal, probably A319 at first. By this time, HP will be on the C concourse here at PDX.

Why is HP moving to the C Concourse? Is anyone swapping gates with them? I haven't heard of this yet!
 
HPRamper
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:21 pm

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 9):
Why is HP moving to the C Concourse? Is anyone swapping gates with them? I haven't heard of this yet!

Late May is the move. We are moving into the area under C15-17, the Port has been renovating it for us very nicely. Our current spot is tiny and trashy, the new one is very spacious...heck, now we won't have to go into the concourse to use the bathroom!

Part of the reason is because of the tarmac work that needs to be done around the north side of D concourse. But if it works out, I hope we stay over on C.
Longer walk, but our gates will be next to each other with a shared podium, instead of across and down the hallway with a moving sidewalk in between like we have now. Ticket counter will most likely be moving as well, only problem there is that our bags won't be able to go down the belt into the bagroom anymore. We may have to move our bagroom, I've heard the idea floated of taking a spot in Horizon's bagroom.

Right now those gates really are not being used other than some remote RON. A while back they used to be NW gates.
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:16 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 4):
From what I've been hearing, US is going to be announcing even further expansion this year which will knock some socks off. At least one destination that nobody is expecting.

Can you still protect your source and let us know the region or continent
of this new destination? Is it a new destination and not a new route to
a city already in the system?

By the way, I saw an HP A319 yesterday evening at PHX in the new
livery. I think the serial number was N816AW. Is this a repainted jet
or a new delivery? It was the first 319 I've seen in the new colors.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
flyboy7974
Posts: 1210
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:49 pm

I would be surprised of PDX-PHL was one of the first markets that the new company tried, only for the fact, look at the fact that they had tried PDX twice before and the routes obviously didn't work. I would like for PDX to get some new service, but in all honestly, I don't think US is the right combo for PDX. It surprises me that the daily O&D between the two markets is 256 pax and still not one nonstop flight. The new combined US might eventually look at this market, but it has bigger fish to catch I am guessing, especially as they begin to fine tune their system and reduce their overall fleet
 
UN_B732
Posts: 3529
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:53 pm

LAS-NRT non-stop would be good yields from gambling, I think, if US had the range for it. Would HP actually have an Airbus based at PHL that would turn at Portland?
What now?
 
PHLBOS
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:40 pm

I do remember that US proposed PHL-PDX service back in 2000/2001; first with the merger w/UA, then later (after that merger was shot down) it actually announced that its own PHL-PDX service would commence in June 2002. The post-9/11 economic downturn along w/its Chapter 11 filings all but killed those plans.

Personally, I would've loved to see non-stop PHL-PDX service become a reality (regardless of carrier); especially since I've made 3 trips out to PDX in the last 3 years.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
PVD757
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:01 pm

so, if there is an announcment coming in a few months for a good amount of new service, maybe I'll revive my hope for a PVD-PHX flight then - I had pretty much given up at this point. Wouldn't mind seeing CLT-DAB/MLB RJ service thrown in there as well...
 
vivavegas
Posts: 422
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:08 pm

My Keys spies are saying CLT-EYW, CLT-MTH - E170 Service this fall.

Craig
MKE/EYW
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
PVD757
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 16):
My Keys spies are saying CLT-EYW, CLT-MTH - E170 Service this fall.

I could see EYW working, not too sure on MTH - maybe seasonal there...

Either way, I'd like to see both those routes even if it replaces the EYW-FLL service.
 
muttley35
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:45 pm

RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:14 pm

pdx-bhx pdx -bhx pdx -bhx think if I say it enough times it will happen ???
 
John
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:16 pm

Marathon?? That's doubtful....FLL-EYW will stay, those flights do very well. An additional CLT frequency would be interesting. I'd bet those flights would have to be weight restricted from EYW's very short runway. The runway at MTH ain't much longer, either.

[Edited 2006-03-08 15:20:47]
 
vivavegas
Posts: 422
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:56 pm

RE: US PDX-PHL

Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:31 pm

Quoting John (Reply 19):
Marathon?? That's doubtful....FLL-EYW will stay, those flights do very well. An additional CLT frequency would be interesting. I'd bet those flights would have to be weight restricted from EYW's very short runway. The runway at MTH ain't much longer, either.

Oddly an article in Today's Citizen mentions this too:
http://www.keysnews.com/296349314149350.bsp.htm

Delta* is doing very well with the CRJ-700 service from ATL, they are up to 2x. I have not heard anything about weight problems with the CRJs out of EYW.

BTW, MTH is 5000 feet, EYW is 4800 feet.

Craig
MKE/EYW
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
User avatar
ramprat74
Posts: 1324
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 10):
Late May is the move. We are moving into the area under C15-17, the Port has been renovating it for us very nicely. Our current spot is tiny and trashy, the new one is very spacious...heck, now we won't have to go into the concourse to use the bathroom!

Part of the reason is because of the tarmac work that needs to be done around the north side of D concourse. But if it works out, I hope we stay over on C.
Longer walk, but our gates will be next to each other with a shared podium, instead of across and down the hallway with a moving sidewalk in between like we have now. Ticket counter will most likely be moving as well, only problem there is that our bags won't be able to go down the belt into the bagroom anymore. We may have to move our bagroom, I've heard the idea floated of taking a spot in Horizon's bagroom.

Right now those gates really are not being used other than some remote RON. A while back they used to be NW gates

I guess we UA, will be using D1, D3 for the summer. They will be shutting down two of the E gates at a time for Taxiway work. I guess they will move CO over to D2, D4. I wish we would move into the horseshoe gates. I hate working the northside with the 40 mph winds.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 20):
Delta* is doing very well with the CRJ-700 service from ATL, they are up to 2x. I have not heard anything about weight problems with the CRJs out of EYW.

There are strictily enforced passenger caps on Delta's EYW-ATL flights.
a.
 
hawk44
Posts: 733
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:54 pm

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 13):
LAS-NRT non-stop would be good yields from gambling, I think, if US had the range for it.

Would be fun, but with a lack of aircraft and no slots into NRT I doubt you will see it anytime soon.

Hawk44
Never under estimate the power of US
 
doug_or
Posts: 3122
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RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:08 am

Sounds like we need some Q400s for CLT-EYW  Smile

I keed, I keed
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 11):
Can you still protect your source and let us know the region or continent
of this new destination? Is it a new destination and not a new route to
a city already in the system?

By the way, I saw an HP A319 yesterday evening at PHX in the new
livery. I think the serial number was N816AW. Is this a repainted jet
or a new delivery? It was the first 319 I've seen in the new colors.

Not Europe. Well, maybe Europe too. Totally new destination.
And we have a good number of repainted A319s out here. If any are delivered, it will be in the new livery, so unless you know the tail numbers it'll be hard to tell the difference between new and old. That was a repainted aircraft. I've also already seen the "HP retro" livery plane. Says US Airways on the side, but the paint is all America West. Bet that was a cheap job.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 14):
Personally, I would've loved to see non-stop PHL-PDX service become a reality

I believe PDX-PHL is one of the largest city pairs in the country with no current nonstop service. Anyone care to check up on that?

Quoting RampRat74 (Reply 21):
I guess we UA, will be using D1, D3 for the summer. They will be shutting down two of the E gates at a time for Taxiway work. I guess they will move CO over to D2, D4. I wish we would move into the horseshoe gates. I hate working the northside with the 40 mph winds.

One of the reasons I'm happy about moving to the south side of C. Much less wind, plus I get to watch the widebodies and fighter jets take off and land.

And believe me, the horseshoe gates suck. It's more sheltered, but you have to deal with NW blocking the alleyway, it will kill your on-time departures. More than once NW has pushed out, blocking the whole thing off, and sat for literally 20 minutes there while we, AS and WN are waiting to push. Plus, you'd probably end up having to tow back and forth, and that's a pain in the ass.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 25):
Not Europe. Well, maybe Europe too. Totally new destination.

how about a country at least - or a region.

Heard anything about tying in some east cities with PHX and/or LAS. I'd guess that BUF, ROC, RIC, ORF, PVD and maybe a couple more markets could support a PHX flight with the right sized equipment...
 
doug_or
Posts: 3122
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:46 am

Maybe I'm off, but it would seem more logical to me to tie western cities to PHL or CLT. By adding SMF, SJC, PDX, SAT, AUS, RNO to PHL or CLT, you open up a host of posible new 1 stop routings. When you add eastern destination to PHX or LAS you really don't open up very many new routings.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:58 am

Actually, Doug, you very much do open up new routings. A lot of them.

The old US Airways only served seven cities from the Rockies west - Las Vegas, Denver, Seattle/Tacoma, Phoenix, San Diego, Los Angeles and San Francisco. HP has dozens more West Coast destinations.

So PHX-BUF would open up one-stop service to dozens upon dozens of new West Coast/Mexico destinations from BUF. Whereas, an SJC-PHL flight would not open as many new locales, because PHX already serves dozens of East Coast cities.

After all the downsizing, America West flew far more to the East than US Airways did to the West.

[Edited 2006-03-08 22:06:51]
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 26):
how about a country at least - or a region.

Ok...and this is the most you'll all get...somewhere west of the United States, but east of the Asian mainland.
Keep in mind...this is NOT finalized as of yet.
 
doug_or
Posts: 3122
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:32 am

Easter Island here I come!
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 29):
somewhere west of the United States, but east of the Asian mainland.
Keep in mind...this is NOT finalized as of yet.

O.K. then it's either Japan or Guam.
Australia/New Zealand/South Pacific are south of Asia, and Japan is
technically not on the Asian Mainland.

By the way, when filing for a route authority, that information is
available to the public when the process begins, isn't it?
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 31):

By the way, when filing for a route authority, that information is
available to the public when the process begins, isn't it?

Yes, assuming that you need to file for the authority. You don't need route authority to fly to Guam, for example, as it is a domestic route. You also don't need route authority if the airline already has a blank expemption or if there is already Open Skies.
a.
 
vega
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:56 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 29):
Ok...and this is the most you'll all get...somewhere west of the United States, but east of the Asian mainland.
Keep in mind...this is NOT finalized as of yet.

Can you at least say if the "originating" city is in the Eastern or Western U.S. ?

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 4):
So, I'll say unofficially, sometime in early June, a turn coming into PDX at around 9 or 10pm and heading redeye straight back to PHL.

I've heard this also, including the times, so it "must" be true.  mischievous 
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:25 am

Does HP serve ANC yet?

Could be Guam...

Thanks HP - that should keep us busy for a while...
 
vega
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:56 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 34):
Could be Guam

Even from PHX, a HNL stop would be required with any existing US aircraft. Anyway where's the $ incentive for GUAM? Are the Japanese there high on LAS? GUAM would't knock many "socks off". The only way a non-stop to Asia would work is if US leased a 777. Could be South America from PHL (e.g. Lima). A first entry into SA would be a very big surprise.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
PDXFlyBoy
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:40 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:07 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 29):



Quoting HPRamper (Reply 29):
Ok...and this is the most you'll all get...somewhere west of the United States, but east of the Asian mainland.
Keep in mind...this is NOT finalized as of yet.

Oh come on now...that does give us a lot to imagine but come on...
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:25 am

I would be surprised of PDX-PHL was one of the first markets that the new company tried, only for the fact, look at the fact that they had tried PDX twice before and the routes obviously didn't work.

As stated earlier, US announced service twice, as part of the UA merger and pre-9/11 on their own, but had to pull it back -- along with almost all of their other plans -- both times. It doesn't reflect on PDX as a poor market from PHL at all. In fact, the pre-9/11 expansion also announced service to SAT, which was never started after the post-9/11 downsizing and subsequent bankruptices.

PHL-PDX would be a great route for US at 287 pax/day in the market. PDX-IAD does well for UA, and from what I hear, PDX-JFK does well for B6, so there definitely is transcon demand here.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:25 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 31):
O.K. then it's either Japan or Guam.

Guam probably wouldn't be the best idea. CO pretty much owns GUM. I was trying to figure out somewhere else that didn't have a big Star Alliance presence, that could support an aircraft larger than a 757 during the winter months. And you can bet on it leaving from PHX or LAS.
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 34):
Does HP serve ANC yet?

Yes. Daily round-trips from LAS and PHX.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
vega
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:56 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:01 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 38):
Guam probably wouldn't be the best idea. CO pretty much owns GUM. I was trying to figure out somewhere else that didn't have a big Star Alliance presence, that could support an aircraft larger than a 757 during the winter months. And you can bet on it leaving from PHX or LAS.

Again, there is NO existing US aircraft that could reach any major city or tourist destination West of HNL, other than Tahiti and I cannot imagine Parker wasting a wide body on PHX-PPT. Any one stopper to Japan or Australia (gasp!), via HNL, would be dead in a year. I think this rumor is either flawed or the predicted direction is incorrect.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:50 pm

What about the A332's - what kind of range do those have (too lazy to look it up)??
 
John
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 1999 10:47 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:29 pm

I don't know the exact range, but the 330-200s can certainly do PHX/LAS-NRT, for instance.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: US PDX-PHL

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting John (Reply 42):
don't know the exact range, but the 330-200s can certainly do PHX/LAS-NRT, for instance.

And isn't US's aircraft order only receiving the 330s' and the 320 family from the HP order for the next couple years? After that the US narrowbody Airbus order and the 350's start coming...
 
ballsdeep
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 1:06 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:54 am

When is us airways taking delivery of the A330-200?
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4595
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:20 am

US Airways already has a few.
 
doug_or
Posts: 3122
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 45):
US Airways already has a few.

Haven't seen any yet. Go through PHL and or CLT a few times most days. AKAIK they only have -300s.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 45):
US Airways already has a few.

Actually, US only has the A330-300 series in their fleet.
While they were in Ch. 11, they worked out an agreement with
Airbus to convert their remaining order for a 333 plus some 320-family
aircraft to 10 332s and fewer 320-family aircraft.

I thought the delivery start date of the 332s was to begin in 2007,
but I think that might now be delayed a year or two. I'm not sure.
I hope not because those A/C have about a 6000nm range, and they
could do wonders for the new US to open up new markets like Asia.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
ORD2PHL
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 9:15 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 46):
Haven't seen any yet. Go through PHL and or CLT a few times most days. AKAIK they only have -300s.

This is correct, US only has the -300, they had -200's on order but had to either cancel or defer the order as part of one of the BK filings; it may have also been partially converted to the A350 deal, but I'm not exactly sure if they(the new US) only has the 350's on order for longhaul or if the 330-200 order still exists

ORD2PHL
 
malaysia
Posts: 2615
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:26 am

RE: US PDX-PHL

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:42 am

Maybe NW will sell some A332 to US?
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens

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