AMSSpotter
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Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:53 am

For obvious reasons, most people in economy hate it when the passenger in front of one uses the reclinability of his/her seat to it's maximum.

What I have been wondering: has it ever been considered to install Y-class seats with limited reclinability (less than what it is right now)...I know Ryanair has seats that don't recline at all but what about a sort of compromise...would it be appreciated at all?
I know flying Business or 1st is a solution but let's not go into that.  Wink

Or are there actually airlines that have installed "Y"-seats with limited/less reclinability?

Thanks for your views/comments/answers...
 
767-332ER
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:57 am

Typically the people that whine about someone reclining their seat, are the first ones to recline their own seat...so I doubt that these people would be easy to please if that's your goal with this thread. I will take as much reclining as I can, so please don't take it away.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
AMSSpotter
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:06 am

I have never whined about it to the one in front of me although it does irritate the crap out of me if people use the reclinability of their seat to it's fullest extent.
I recline about 50%...not because I don't want to go "all the way" but because I try to be considerate.

[Edited 2006-03-08 17:07:52]
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 1):
Typically the people that whine about someone reclining their seat, are the first ones to recline their own seat...so I doubt that these people would be easy to please if that's your goal with this thread. I will take as much reclining as I can, so please don't take it away.

 thumbsdown  to you and your type!!!

Quoting AMSSpotter (Thread starter):
What I have been wondering: has it ever been considered to install Y-class seats with limited reclinability (less than what it is right now)...I know Ryanair has seats that don't recline at all but what about a sort of compromise...would it be appreciated at all?

I had made this same point in an earlier thread on the same subject and wondered why airlines don't do it....
 
lincoln
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting AMSSpotter (Thread starter):
Or are there actually airlines that have installed "Y"-seats with limited/less reclinability?

Look at just about any row in front of an exit row...

One of several reasons that can make them attractive  Smile

Lincoln
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Vasu
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Econom

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:27 am

DELETE PLEASE

filler

[Edited 2006-03-08 18:31:55]
 
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Vasu
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 1):
Typically the people that whine about someone reclining their seat, are the first ones to recline their own seat

I wouldn't say this is the case... I mean, I hate the seat in front trying to become the first fully flat bed in economy class, but I never bother with the recline!

Sometimes a full recline in front can make it really difficult to see the PTV properly... also, isn't it just awful having some random person lying right in your lap?!

Less recline would definitely be good! I once travelled on a Britannia 757 (old seats). The person in front tried frantically to recline as far as possible, but the seat back moved only a few inches! Excellent!

The ones I hate most are people who fully recline when the person in front is dead upright, just to snuggle down and watch a film! Or the people who fully recline their kids' seats for them, only for the kid to fall asleep on the parent's lap or the tray table anyway!

While I'm ranting, here's another solution...

Let the seats recline for a bit, but when the passenger is asleep, the FA pushes a button on their control panel and the seat slowly rises to upright again! I'm sure they won't notice  Silly
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:31 am

Quoting AMSSpotter (Reply 2):
I have never whined about it to the one in front of me although it does irritate the crap out of me if people use the reclinability of their seat to it's fullest extent.
I recline about 50%...not because I don't want to go "all the way" but because I try to be considerate.

I paid for the recline so I'm gonna use it. On the other hand I will glance quickly backwards to check that the victim doesn't have his laptop open or something AND I will recline gently.

Recline all you want, but please try not to divebomb my lap! I have had to rescue my laptop so many times, and even had drinks spilled. How hard is it to slow down a little?

What they should build is slow reclining seats.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
jush
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:37 am

For me as a 6'4" tall person I really appreciate if someone doesn't fully recline his/her seat. Cause I will be more cramped in it than ever.
Just as a side comment. People sitting in front of me won't enjoy their fully reclined seat cause as a matter of fact I have long legs and they would feel my knee joints the entire period while the seat is fully reclined  Wink .

But I certainly do not like people who fully recline their seats especially when I still have my food tray folded down. I like it if you ask politely if it's alright to recline.

I do it, always. But then again I never fully recline my seat.

Regds
jush
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Gr8Circle
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
What they should build is slow reclining seats.

...with a maximum limit that makes sense to the recliner and the 'victim' behind....  Big grin
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting AMSSpotter (Thread starter):
has it ever been considered to install Y-class seats with limited reclinability (less than what it is right now)...

I believe that the reason Coach class seats with limited reclinability aren't offered is because of the varying seat pitch that is offered by the airlines.

If an airline (like WN for example) offers a 34-inch pitch; the reclining seat in front of a passenger might be less of an issue than on an comparable aircraft with a 30 or 31-inch seat pitch from another airline.

Quoting AMSSpotter (Thread starter):
I know Ryanair has seats that don't recline at all

Part of that is due to the 28 (or is it 29?) inch seat pitch that FR offers.
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767-332ER
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 3):
Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 1):
Typically the people that whine about someone reclining their seat, are the first ones to recline their own seat...so I doubt that these people would be easy to please if that's your goal with this thread. I will take as much reclining as I can, so please don't take it away.

to you and your type!!!

I paid for the seat and if I can be more comfortable by reclining it, then that's what I will do. The person behind me can do the same thing.

I am also taller than your average and have no problem when someone in front of me reclines their seat.
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting Jush (Reply 8):
For me as a 6'4" tall person I really appreciate if someone doesn't fully recline his/her seat. Cause I will be more cramped in it than ever.

Well, if I see that the person behind me is tall, I will check with them and we'll reach a compromise like civilized human beings.

Oops! I forgot that civilized human beings are in short supply when flying these days. Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
killjoy
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting Vasu (Reply 6):
Let the seats recline for a bit, but when the passenger is asleep, the FA pushes a button on their control panel and the seat slowly rises to upright again! I'm sure they won't notice

I'd say we need the opposite, actually. It would be great if seats didn't recline much by default, but sleeping passengers could get extra. That's the only time it really matters.

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 11):
I paid for the seat and if I can be more comfortable by reclining it, then that's what I will do. The person behind me can do the same thing.

In civilized societies we take others into consideration even if we've "paid for something".
 
ikramerica
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting AMSSpotter (Thread starter):
Thanks for your views/comments/answers...

I think the idea is dumb. I'm tall, and when the person in front of me reclines, I deal with it.

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 7):
I paid for the recline so I'm gonna use it. On the other hand I will glance quickly backwards to check that the victim doesn't have his laptop open or something AND I will recline gently.

I do the same thing. I never recline quickly (great way to destroy a laptop), and I put my seat back up when food is served since it can be hard to eat for the people behind. But when it's movie or sleeping time, I am not going to sit bolt upright. There is no rule that says you must, there is no tradition that says you must, it is not wrong or immoral to recline.
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Gr8Circle
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 11):
I paid for the seat and if I can be more comfortable by reclining it, then that's what I will do. The person behind me can do the same thing.

I am also taller than your average and have no problem when someone in front of me reclines their seat.

You do realise from this thread, I hope, that you are in a minority  smile 
 
FlyKev
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:57 am

Although Ive personally bene lucky really, I did see the man in front get covered in beer as his seat flew back over him.
The last flight I took was at the back of a 744, and I was in the last row of 3, meaning I could recline without crushing anyone. Normally I do ask.
I dont mind people who recline on me, but I do hate those who reclien fully, and fast, and also those who fail to de-recline during meal service.
A little bit less of a recline would be welcomed personally, though some recline should be left.
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 15):
You do realise from this thread, I hope, that you are in a minority

And for that I should change my mind? I have my own views and am sticking to them. I doubt that you will keep your seat upright or recline it 0.05cm on a 10 hr transatlantic haul.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 13):
In civilized societies we take others into consideration even if we've "paid for something".

I am American, we're not civilized. I will keep it in mind when I travel to and/within Europe though.

[Edited 2006-03-08 22:01:58]
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
767-332ER
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:10 am

And of course to all you that are whining about this topic, you do realize it's around 8cm that we're talking about? If you guys have a problem with it, then write your airlines and tell them about how much you hate the ability to recline your seat. I almost guarantee that most of you will recline your seat when traveling for a few hours. I for one do not feel obligated to ask the person behind me whether I can recline my seat. If its offered in the first place, then why should I have to ask? Attack my behavior all you want but of course I never recline my seat in a flash...I am very gradual when doing so, so that if the person behind me does have a beer or laptop, they know that I am reclining, which is my airline given right...and which that person behind me has the same right to exercise during their flight.

You guys have a good one discussing this topic to death.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
Door5Right
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:16 am

These do the trick!

http://kneedefender.com/
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Gr8Circle
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 17):
And for that I should change my mind? I have my own views and am sticking to them. I doubt that you will keep your seat upright or recline it 0.05cm on a 10 hr transatlantic haul.

Oh no, no, no.......we're just talking about reclining to a decent limit and making sure that the person behind is not inconvenienced.....and I've done quite a few 10+ hrs flights without resorting to extreme reclines.....  smile 
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Econom

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Door5Right (Reply 20):
These do the trick!

http://kneedefender.com/

Watch me call the F/A and tell her something seems wrong with my recline. Should take care of the Knee Defender right quick...

They're banned by a whole bunch of airlines, and for good reason. They alter the seat. The airline could probably by rights call them a potential safety hazard.

There's a thread on the Knee Defender somewhere, but it's probably from 2004 or something.

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 18):
Quoting Killjoy (Reply 13):
In civilized societies we take others into consideration even if we've "paid for something".

I am American, we're not civilized. I will keep it in mind when I travel to and/within Europe though.

Don't expect Europeans to be more civilized. Big grin

Quoting FlyKev (Reply 16):
The last flight I took was at the back of a 744, and I was in the last row of 3, meaning I could recline without crushing anyone.

These seats are nice unless you have people waiting for the lav who also lean on your seatback while they wait and think this doesn't move the seat. It is just sooooo annoying.

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 19):
You guys have a good one discussing this topic to death.

We will! Big grin
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
killjoy
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:52 am

Quoting Door5Right (Reply 20):
These do the trick!

http://kneedefender.com/

I don't think that's proper either. It's not fair to sabotage someone else's seat just because you have issues with reclining.

Personally I just think people should be smart about it and recline for sleeping only.

Quoting FlyKev (Reply 16):
The last flight I took was at the back of a 744, and I was in the last row of 3, meaning I could recline without crushing anyone.

Yeah, that's great. It happened to me and my girlfriend a few weeks ago on an MD-11. Last row of the aircraft, 2-seat bench by the window, armrest up, and we reclined for the whole flight. Wonderful!

(It would've been even better if I hadn't been suffering from the aftereffects of food poisoning, but oh well...  Wink )
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:00 am

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 23):

Personally I just think people should be smart about it and recline for sleeping only.

What if I want to sleep the whole flight?  Wink


Seriously though, I'm not defending those who recline violently, I just think that the recline is there for my use within reason. If the 6 foot 6 guy behind be really can't fit, I'll recline a bit less.

If you don't want to be in a cramped seat, buy a Business/First ticket instead!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:07 am

I think the answer is to put fares up, and get rid of economy seats like the good old days.... Wink

All this is exactly why I like the last row of economy. There's nobody to worry about behind you. besides having recline does absolutely bugger all for comfort anyway unless you can recline the seat next to you as well..
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 25):

All this is exactly why I like the last row of economy. There's nobody to worry about behind you. besides having recline does absolutely bugger all for comfort anyway unless you can recline the seat next to you as well.

Speak for yourself.  Wink I love my recline.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
PHLBOS
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 24):
If you don't want to be in a cramped seat, buy a Business/First ticket instead!

With many network/legacy carriers using RJs on more routes; getting a Business/First Class ticket on every flight is not always possible anymore.

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 25):
I think the answer is to put fares up, and get rid of economy seats like the good old days....

With that kind of attitude, we'd be still be doing passenger boating for most trans-Atlantic/trans-Pacific journeys. At a Titanic exhibit show in Philly a couple of years ago; it was mentioned that the price of a First-Class ticket was in the tens-of-thousands dollars. 1912 dollars that is.

[Edited 2006-03-08 23:24:36]
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 27):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 24):
If you don't want to be in a cramped seat, buy a Business/First ticket instead!

With many network/legacy carriers using RJs on more routes; getting a Business/First Class ticket on every flight is not always possible anymore.

Good point, but in that case we're only talking a max of about 3-4 hours in most cases.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
killjoy
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Econom

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 24):
What if I want to sleep the whole flight? Wink

If it's a flight people are expected to sleep on, sure. If it's day flight and you're just tired, perhaps reclining halfway would be appropriate. Depends on the situation.

People should try to seek out the optimum balance between courtesy and self-interest more often. And I don't just mean on aircraft. Going too much in either direction will just cause unnecessary discomfort.

[Edited 2006-03-08 23:44:12]
 
PSA727
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:03 am

I think they should design an eceonomy class seat the way the seats
are designed on the Deutsche Bahn ICE trains.

When someone reclines their seat, their seat bottom moves forward; so
there is no taking away from the space around the knee area of the
passenger seated behind you. That is German engineering!!

I have been on a few USAirways flights across the Atlantic where the
flight attendants ask the passengers to move their seats to the upright
position while doing the meal service. That's nice, and most comply.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
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Vasu
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:52 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 30):
When someone reclines their seat, their seat bottom moves forward; so
there is no taking away from the space around the knee area of the
passenger seated behind you. That is German engineering!!

Yes! I've always thought that too...

That way, if the person decides to recline, they're only really doing a favour to the person behind! Now that's nice and courteous! I'm sure seats like that could fairly easily be designed anyway...
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 29):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 24):
What if I want to sleep the whole flight? Wink

If it's a flight people are expected to sleep on, sure. If it's day flight and you're just tired, perhaps reclining halfway would be appropriate. Depends on the situation.

People should try to seek out the optimum balance between courtesy and self-interest more often. And I don't just mean on aircraft. Going too much in either direction will just cause unnecessary discomfort.

Agreed, and there's nothing wrong with people trying to be more courteous. Unfortunately I don't think it's very realistic. In the end, the only way to enforce courtesy in this case is to limit reclne.

I recline all the way, but as I said I check behind me first to see that there is no laptop/tray/glass in the way. Also if the person is tall I'll ask first. Also, I ensure to recline gently to give the victim time to react and avoid any jostling of wine/coffee.

I'd also like to say that sometimes I've been polite and asked, only to be rewarded with a rude look and a brusque "No, I need the space." Answering politeness with rudeness does not make me eager to continue being polite...


While we're talking courtesy, seat recline is number 14 or so of "things that people do on aircraft that annoy me". Talking really loudly at night, using the armrest plus some of "my space", bringing aboard really smelly food, stowing bags inefficiently. I could go one. My personal favorite: discarding your read newspaper under your own seat so it lands neatly on my feet! What's up with that?

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 30):
I have been on a few USAirways flights across the Atlantic where the
flight attendants ask the passengers to move their seats to the upright
position while doing the meal service. That's nice, and most comply.

Agreed.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
AMSSpotter
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:48 am

Thank you for your input!

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 3):
I had made this same point in an earlier thread on the same subject and wondered why airlines don't do it....

I'm sorry, I missed that.

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 4):
Look at just about any row in front of an exit row...

Now that you mention it: never realized that...

Quoting Vasu (Reply 6):
Let the seats recline for a bit, but when the passenger is asleep, the FA pushes a button on their control panel and the seat slowly rises to upright again!

If it wouldn't have been for the extra weight such a system will add, I would embrace that idea.  Wink

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 14):
I think the idea is dumb. I'm tall, and when the person in front of me reclines, I deal with it.

Seats with less reclinability might save you an argument  Wink

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 18):
I am American, we're not civilized. I will keep it in mind when I travel to and/within Europe though.

I'm afraid we're no more civilized than you guys!

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 22):
They're banned by a whole bunch of airlines, and for good reason. They alter the seat. The airline could probably by rights call them a potential safety hazard.
There's a thread on the Knee Defender somewhere, but it's probably from 2004 or something.

I Remember it and I think they are right banning those kneedefenders. Tampering with the seats is not the solution.

Quoting Killjoy (Reply 29):
People should try to seek out the optimum balance between courtesy and self-interest more often. And I don't just mean on aircraft.

Sounds right to me!
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:50 pm

Quoting AMSSpotter (Reply 33):
Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 3):
I had made this same point in an earlier thread on the same subject and wondered why airlines don't do it....

I'm sorry, I missed that.

Hey, no problem....that was almost a month back.....  smile 
 
Tod
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RE: Why No Seats With Less Reclinability In Economy?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 10):
I believe that the reason Coach class seats with limited reclinability aren't offered is because of the varying seat pitch that is offered by the airlines.

Seat vendors can provide whatever amount of recline airline wants to order.

Tod

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