terryb99
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:35 am

Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:52 am

Business-class airline Maxjet Airways has postponed the launch of its Stansted-Washington route until April 3, blaming delays refitting its aircraft.

The whole article;

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articl...xjet+delays+Washington+launch.html
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:53 am

I was reading about Maxjet today in the March Issue of Airliner World Big grin

They appear to be doing pretty good  Smile

I read they are considering expansion with up to 6 more aircraft  bouncy 


Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:44 am

I thought I saw their 767 aircraft Tuesday afternoon while I was on
a plane taxiing on the runway at IAD. The A/C wasn't at a gate, but
I thought a saw the word Maxjet written length-wise on the tail and
I think there was a light purple scheme to it.

I could be wrong, I was very tired that day.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
JayDavis
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:06 am

Wonder which airline is doing better?

EOS or MaxJet?
 
halls120
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:18 am

Quoting PSA727 (Reply 2):
I thought I saw their 767 aircraft Tuesday afternoon while I was on
a plane taxiing on the runway at IAD. The A/C wasn't at a gate, but
I thought a saw the word Maxjet written length-wise on the tail and
I think there was a light purple scheme to it.

I could be wrong, I was very tired that day.

You were right. I saw it today, sitting at a stand west of the B terminal.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
jaysit
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:15 am

I'm taking them in June to London on my way to Ireland. $ 999 R/T to STN.

Just a bit more than coach in BA. Substantially less than WTPlus, and 1/4 of the fare in ClubWorld.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 5):
I'm taking them in June to London on my way to Ireland. $ 999 R/T to STN.

Just a bit more than coach in BA. Substantially less than WTPlus, and 1/4 of the fare in ClubWorld.

Sounds like they're doing great to me!  Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
WJ
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:10 pm

I still don't understand how they are in business. Simple math...
$1000 RT, 102 seats, approx $180,000 in costs for a RT 767 NYC-JFK.

Ok... Lets face it, the 767 was a horrible choice for this type of service. With a 100% load factor, even if we average $1500 RT, which clearly isn't as high, you will only generate $153,000 a RT. If you can't break even on your flight when it's full, how will you ever make money as a company???


"We will have forward loads of 45%-50% on the new route and are recording loads of more than 50% in March and April for the existing Stansted-New York route," Rogliano said.

Little birdy told me that on an average day Maxjet loads between 20-30 pax a flight. Some of the high days, usually sundays, are around 50. Also, if they already have bookings for the new IAD service that was supposed to start in two weeks, it is if they cancelled 10 flights. More money spent on rebooking or refunds.

Very old planes+poor business plan+Not too much start-up money to begin with=trouble.
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SNATH
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:17 pm

Quoting WJ (Reply 7):
Ok... Lets face it, the 767 was a horrible choice for this type of service. With a 100% load factor, even if we average $1500 RT, which clearly isn't as high, you will only generate $153,000 a RT. If you can't break even on your flight when it's full, how will you ever make money as a company???

You add cargo.

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
WJ
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:25 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 8):
You add cargo.

Cargo is not that simple. You don't just throw cargo on and expect to collect. The profit margin on cargo on a single airliner is miniscule to a point it doesn't exist. The profit is in volume. Because of the added fuel expense when you add weight, add the cost of wearhousing, handling and delivery agents and maybe some advertising, so people know you actualy have a cargo operation, you are looking at a major expense. You will not turn around that expense on 1-2 flights a day in years.

Sorry, IMO it's just a good idea done horribly bad. Not your cargo idea, Maxjet.
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SNATH
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:34 pm

Quoting WJ (Reply 9):
Cargo is not that simple. You don't just throw cargo on and expect to collect. The profit margin on cargo on a single airliner is miniscule to a point it doesn't exist. The profit is in volume. Because of the added fuel expense when you add weight, add the cost of wearhousing, handling and delivery agents and maybe some advertising, so people know you actualy have a cargo operation, you are looking at a major expense. You will not turn around that expense on 1-2 flights a day in years.

Well, I did ask in another thread and, apparently, both Maxjet and EOS do carry cargo (at least, that's what some of the members here said). So, there must be something there for both airlines.

Now, given that you seem to know much more than me, can you please give us an idea of how much it costs to do a B767 trip?

Quoting WJ (Reply 9):
Sorry, IMO it's just a good idea done horribly bad. Not your cargo idea, Maxjet.

I'm personally wishing my best to both Maxjet and EOS. I think we need some new and fresh ideas in this industry. Any reason why you seem to be against them?

And on a high note: a (late) welcome to a.net!

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
Simpilicity
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:35 pm

Quoting WJ (Reply 7):
Very old planes+poor business plan+Not too much start-up money to begin with=trouble.

aircraft are not that old & are ex QF I believe so should have been maintained very well.

Quoting WJ (Reply 7):
approx $180,000 in costs for a RT 767 NYC-JFK.

Perhaps this figure you've come up with is wrong? With the aircraft acquisition costs being very low perhaps it's too high.

& are fares inclusive of fuel surcharge ? probably not ? Then there's a chunk of revenue in fuel + insurance surcharges etc. to be considered.

Anyway good luck Maxjet - in some ways similar to OZJET down under.

I hope u both survive & prosper, but still believe that both airlines should go 2 class, to allow them to get incremental revenue without bastardising business class fares.

This could mean half seats C & half Y, not the traditional 10-15% C/J mix.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:37 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 5):
Just a bit more than coach in BA.

Nice justification. But let's face it, I can go r/t to London right now on United for $268. So I could buy a whole row on United and still have enough left over to have a meal from Lutece on each leg. Neverthless, I'm sure that you will enjoy it.
 
WJ
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:54 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 10):
Well, I did ask in another thread and, apparently, both Maxjet and EOS do carry cargo (at least, that's what some of the members here said). So, there must be something there for both airlines.

Well, it does seem that Eos has a different structure with the 757 and the premium service which costs much more, so reliance on cargo should not be a big factor. Again, I still don't see cargo as being viable for any airline with such a small operation.

As far as operating costs, I don't know all the number details but I will say this, average 767 OW fuel load NYC-LHR is roughly 100,000-110,000 lbs. 757 is roughly 55000-60000. The higher weight of the 767 will mean higher costs on landing fees at each airport.

Quoting SNATH (Reply 10):
I'm personally wishing my best to both Maxjet and EOS. I think we need some new and fresh ideas in this industry. Any reason why you seem to be against them?

I want to see all airlines succeed. It's obvioulsy an interest with me. I do have a bit of a dislike towards Maxjet since they only decided what sort of an airline to run, after they were already certified as an LCC and only after Eos announced what they were planning to do. (This is by the way, why they got stuck with those 767's which were much more suitble for LCC ops). In the process, they have hurt both airlines' potential revenue. Kind of a punk move and no-one really likes that... That sort of put me on the Eos side if you will.

Quoting SNATH (Reply 10):
And on a high note: a (late) welcome to a.net!

Thank you! Long time reader first time(s) caller...
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Simpilicity
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:57 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 12):
Nice justification. But let's face it, I can go r/t to London right now on United for $268. So I could buy a whole row on United and still have enough left over to have a meal from Lutece on each leg. Neverthless, I'm sure that you will enjoy it.

Another stupid UA fare !!! No wonder they are going broke.

Anyway, the point is that Maxjet are trying to appeal to the business class traveller who pays their own fare & also to corporations who need/want to reduce they travel costs.

here's an example of difference in fares between Y & C between Australia & North America (as part of a package).

UA had a return fare from BNE to anywhere in the USA return for around AUD$1200 (QF BNE/SYD/BNE) . PAx want to go to YVR & UA only got them as close as SEA. Suggested driving/training/flying SEA/YVR but in the end they flew QF business class upgrade, which was QF BNE/LAX in C & QF (AS codeshare LAX/YVR IN Y) for around AUD$8000, neither fare inc taxes/charges.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:02 pm

Quoting WJ (Reply 7):
Lets face it, the 767 was a horrible choice for this type of service.



Quoting WJ (Reply 7):
Very old planes

Personally, I disagree. Let me start by saying that all-business-class airlines have always had a very tough niche and, in my opinion, are an enormously risky investment and more likely than not to fail. But if MaxJet fail, it isn't going to be because of this aircraft choice. It's going to be because they can't develop the market.

The 767 is an extremely popular aircraft among both airlines and customers. Despite the fact that the order backlog is miniscule as airlines look to the next generation widebodies, I defy you to find a 767-300ER in decent shape at any kind of reasonable lease or sale price. Can't be had. Doesn't exist, even though there are hundreds of this airframe out there. The operating economics of the -200, of course, aren't as great as the -300, but the capital cost of a -200 is dramatically lower than the -300 because good-condition ones are relatively-widely available. For an over-the-pond trip to London, the -200 is a decent choice for MaxJet. Widebody comfort, which some folks really do appreciate. Right size, because they really don't want to have to sell any more seats than they now have. Low capital cost. Modern avionics, engines, etc. Excellent dispatch reliability. Plenty of range for this trip (i.e. don't need an ER). As to age, puh-leese. On an aircraft with this kind of interior rehab and exterior paint, nobody but the nerdiest airline geek will have the slightest idea how old the particular airframe is -- heck, it's still in production, so who's gonna know?

I haven't seen these guys' business plan, but I have to assume that they're assuming that they'll lose money for a while and then be able to push fares up closer to $1000 each way while they load 80%+ per flight. Then you have yourself $160K per r/t. I suspect that they also anticipate spreading their administrative costs among a greater number of flights as they expand to other cities. Whether they can turn a profit before their working capital runs out is anyone's guess, but obviously they hope to do so. I'm sure that for most of the investors, this is an ego play ("Look, ma, I own an airline") more than it is their hope of becoming the next Gordon Bethune or (insert name of someone who has made hundreds of millions owning an airline long-term; oh, wait, there aren't any...including the stockholders of virtually every American carrier, who were wiped out in bankruptcy)  Smile
 
SNATH
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:02 pm

Quoting WJ (Reply 13):
That sort of put me on the Eos side if you will.

They seem to have different models. From what I've seen, Eos are trying to attract F class flyers, whereas Maxjet are going after the business class crowd (and seem to be a lot cheaper than EOS). Maybe they could coexist?

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
Simpilicity
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:08 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 16):
They seem to have different models. From what I've seen, Eos are trying to attract F class flyers, whereas Maxjet are going after the business class crowd (and seem to be a lot cheaper than EOS). Maybe they could coexist?

Tony

Maybe they should work together? If they offerred the same/similar product even though I believe EOS flys 752's, they could increase their frequencies on same route/codeshare.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:40 pm

Regarding my comment about UA's $268 r/t to London.

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 14):
Another stupid UA fare !!!

Well, yeah, and let's face it, it comes with restrictions. If you're a businessperson booking for, say, tomorrow returning in 3 days, which is MaxJet's crowd, AA wants $1600 r/t for plain old coach. Of course, these over-the-pond flights are the things that heat up your elite status, so people will actually suffer in coach on their employer's dime so that they can compete with other Platinum fliers for that f/c upgrade to Cleveland.

COSTS
-------

But I digress. Let's talk about costs for a second. Some of the big factors in cost are really unknown to us. For example, crew. Delta pays $5.53 per aircraft mile in crew costs on a 767-300. On the same aircraft at North American, it's $2.33. Wow. Conversely, NAA pays about 43 cents per mile in insurance costs, whereas Delta pays a mere 7 cents. If we put Maxjet more on the NAA side of both (where it likely is), then we're talking about roughly $11 per mile for direct variable costs on the -200 series version of the 767, including fuel, about $3 per mile in capital cost, and some unknown (call it $4) in passenger service and some unknown (call it $2) for administrative expenses. So, really roughly, let's call this $20 per flight mile for the 767-200. This assumes a lot about utilization, but if they're getting 12 hours a day, that's probably fair, and my fuel cost number is pretty current. On a 7000-mile round-trip, you're looking, then, at $140,000 all-in, and, say $120,000 if you really squeeze the passenger service and administrative costs. Pay the Delta crew price, and you'd add $22,000 to the round-trip. Still, I have trouble getting to $180,000, even with today's fuel costs and a big advertising budget.

But it shows you how this, like all businesses, is one of pennies. The difference in fuel price even from last year is over $10,000 per round-trip. Shave a few bucks in crew compensation, a few in capital cost, and a few in passenger service, and all of a sudden you go from losing $20,000 a trip to making $20,000 a trip. Or making $6 million a year rather than losing $6 million a year. You get the picture.

SO...using the model of $153,000 revenue per sold-out round-trip (although it would likely be higher if they were reaching those load factors and ramping up the fare), the thing can break even or even make a little money. At $75,000 per round trip (a 50% load factor), they're plainly losing money, even at my rock-bottom round-trip cost of $120,000.

Hope this is as interesting to you as it is to me.
 
mika
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:01 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 12):
So I could buy a whole row on United

I like this thought Big grin

I wonder if that would be possible, to just shell out the money and have a whole row for yourself so you could invite the hottest ladies for a drink in "my section" of the aircraft. That would be something Big grin
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:06 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 18):
COSTS
-------

But I digress. Let's talk about costs for a second. Some of the big factors in cost are really unknown to us. For example, crew. Delta pays $5.53 per aircraft mile in crew costs on a 767-300. On the same aircraft at North American, it's $2.33. Wow. Conversely, NAA pays about 43 cents per mile in insurance costs, whereas Delta pays a mere 7 cents. If we put Maxjet more on the NAA side of both (where it likely is), then we're talking about roughly $11 per mile for direct variable costs on the -200 series version of the 767, including fuel, about $3 per mile in capital cost, and some unknown (call it $4) in passenger service and some unknown (call it $2) for administrative expenses. So, really roughly, let's call this $20 per flight mile for the 767-200. This assumes a lot about utilization, but if they're getting 12 hours a day, that's probably fair, and my fuel cost number is pretty current. On a 7000-mile round-trip, you're looking, then, at $140,000 all-in, and, say $120,000 if you really squeeze the passenger service and administrative costs. Pay the Delta crew price, and you'd add $22,000 to the round-trip. Still, I have trouble getting to $180,000, even with today's fuel costs and a big advertising budget.

But it shows you how this, like all businesses, is one of pennies. The difference in fuel price even from last year is over $10,000 per round-trip. Shave a few bucks in crew compensation, a few in capital cost, and a few in passenger service, and all of a sudden you go from losing $20,000 a trip to making $20,000 a trip. Or making $6 million a year rather than losing $6 million a year. You get the picture.

SO...using the model of $153,000 revenue per sold-out round-trip (although it would likely be higher if they were reaching those load factors and ramping up the fare), the thing can break even or even make a little money. At $75,000 per round trip (a 50% load factor), they're plainly losing money, even at my rock-bottom round-trip cost of $120,000.

Hope this is as interesting to you as it is to me.

great BUT have you taken into account fuel & insurance surcharges?
 
WesternA318
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:54 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 10):
I'm personally wishing my best to both Maxjet and EOS.

As am I, since I fly EOS twice a month now...*sweet*

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 15):
I'm sure that for most of the investors, this is an ego play ("Look, ma, I own an airline") more than it is their hope of becoming the next Gordon Bethune or (insert name of someone who has made hundreds of millions owning an airline long-term; oh, wait, there aren't any...including the stockholders of virtually every American carrier, who were wiped out in bankruptcy)

Hehe...Heres a few names that did work their airline/aerospace company for long-term survival:

*Bob Six
*Jack Frye
*CE Woolman
*CR Smith
*Bill Patterson
*Old Mac
*Don Douglas
*Gordon Bethune
*Juan Trippe
*Pop Hanshue

Quoting SNATH (Reply 16):
Eos are trying to attract F class flyers, whereas Maxjet are going after the business class crowd (and seem to be a lot cheaper than EOS). Maybe they could coexist?

I would think they could. Who else flies US-Stansted besides these two and CO?

Quoting Mika (Reply 19):
Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 12):
So I could buy a whole row on United

I like this thought

Me too!


Quoting Mika (Reply 19):
I wonder if that would be possible, to just shell out the money and have a whole row for yourself so you could invite the hottest ladies for a drink in "my section" of the aircraft. That would be something

LOL< I think Imma gunna have to try this out...New Reality Show: "Bachelor: Mile High Club"
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:18 pm

The costs per roundtrip listed above just sound plain wrong. Otherwise, CO is losing money on every flight across the Atlantic, as is DL, but we know that isn't true, those are the routes keeping them barely afloat. After all, a CO 762 might only take in $120k roundtrip for the route when you factor in discounts, crew rest, non-rev, mileage seats, etc., and that actually includes connecting passengers in EWR from other flights as well as well as a 100% capacity jet. But it doesn't factor cargo.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
jaysit
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting WJ (Reply 7):
I still don't understand how they are in business. Simple math...
$1000 RT, 102 seats, approx $180,000 in costs for a RT 767 NYC-JFK.

The fares on the IAD route at $ 1000 R/T are merely introductory fares. They're supposed to rise to about $ 2000 R/T later in the year.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
WJ
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:14 am

RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
The costs per roundtrip listed above just sound plain wrong. Otherwise, CO is losing money on every flight across the Atlantic, as is DL, but we know that isn't true, those are the routes keeping them barely afloat. After all, a CO 762 might only take in $120k roundtrip for the route when you factor in discounts, crew rest, non-rev, mileage seats, etc., and that actually includes connecting passengers in EWR from other flights as well as well as a 100% capacity jet. But it doesn't factor cargo

DL is losing buckets of money every time they open for business in the morning. I doubt either they or CO are making money on the highly contested UK market.

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 20):
Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 18):
COSTS
-------

Just one addition, Business class meal on a trans-atlantic + some alcohol, could run anywhere from $70-$120 per passenger. For a 100 you are looking at another 10k per segment, 20K R/T.
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BWI757
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 14):
Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 12):
Nice justification. But let's face it, I can go r/t to London right now on United for $268. So I could buy a whole row on United and still have enough left over to have a meal from Lutece on each leg. Neverthless, I'm sure that you will enjoy it.

Another stupid UA fare !!! No wonder they are going broke.

Uh, BA was offering R/T to LHR last week for $129 each way according to the regular emails I get from them. $129x2=$258. Stupid for UA to compete I guess....

BWI757
I live in the US but my heart is in Jerusalem!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting WJ (Reply 24):
I doubt either they or CO are making money on the highly contested UK market.

I call shenanigans!

And same goes for your DL slam.

The cost isn't higher to fly to UK than it is to fly to ZRH, and my numbers apply to any route across the Atlantic (why I said Atlantic). According to the numbers people have laid out above, CO and DL can't make money on any route they fly. We know both are losing money on some routes they are flying, but not the european routes (in general) and that must mean that the costs quoted above are not correct.

CO has BF summer sales for under $2000 RT, and we know they sell plenty of Y seats for $500 RT to $800 RT. On a 762, it would be hard to get more than $120k for a plane that way, and even with cargo revenues, it is claimed CO couldn't make money flying these route. So why do they? And why do they expand into Europe as a way to increase profits?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Ned Kelly
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:37 am

I was aware of someone who recently bought a one-way ticket on Maxjet from STN-JFK; the cost was £599 (GBP).

I was at STN last month when this flight arrived at around 7am. That time of the day is probably the quietest time there is for arrivals at STN. (Most FR & U2 flights are outbound at 7am), there were no queues for immigration or baggage etc. So if you hate the morning crowds of LHR & LGW and you can afford to fly on Maxjet, then I would recommend this service.

So good luck Maxjet.
 
WJ
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:13 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 26):
I call shenanigans!

And same goes for your DL slam.

The cost isn't higher to fly to UK than it is to fly to ZRH, and my numbers apply to any route across the Atlantic (why I said Atlantic).

You need to read more carefully. I did not say that it costs more to fly to the UK, I said it is more contested. While as you suggest (correctly) that the cost to fly to most European cities is more or less the same, it's a fact that London is by far the cheapest ticket out of the lot. With every major US carrier plus major activity from BA, VS and a few other Asian carriers stopping there along the way, there is much more competition on this route than any other city... so the revenue suffers.
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Midway2AirTran
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:52 am

I wouldn't rely on the estimated costs above, afterall MaxJet is a privately held LCC (Low Cost Carrier), not a DL or CO. If their plan was to fly unprofitable flights with an unsuitable business plan then the DOT would have stopped them in their tracks toward commerical flying.

I give both MaxJet and EOS a chance, especially as both grab more a/c and frequencies, though I believe too that they should go into a two-class service to expand to a larger market and lower risks. MaxJet will do well to have another market outside JFK when they finally start in Washington.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
wjcandee
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RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 20):
great BUT have you taken into account fuel & insurance surcharges?

Yes.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5339
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting WJ (Reply 24):
Just one addition, Business class meal on a trans-atlantic + some alcohol, could run anywhere from $70-$120 per passenger. For a 100 you are looking at another 10k per segment, 20K R/T.

Correct -- those would be within "passenger service". At $4/mile*7000 miles, we built in $28000 to cover that and other pax svc expenses.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5339
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting Midway2AirTran (Reply 29):
I wouldn't rely on the estimated costs above, afterall MaxJet is a privately held LCC (Low Cost Carrier), not a DL or CO.

Oh, you mean exactly like North American was until recently, whose costs I used? Where do you think there is money to be saved? Crew? Fuel? Insurance? Passenger Service? Aircraft Lease/Ownership Expense? If so, please, I would very much appreciate your telling me which of the numbers are wrong. I really would like to have a better understanding of what it costs to fly these things, especially if I am out of the ballpark. Hey, let's say the crew is FREE. That saves you $16,000 off of our estimates. Still doesn't make this thing profitable.

I as much as anyone would like to know what these guys estimate it costs them to run these flights, including everything. Fuel alone on this round-trip is like $35,000 (very roughly). Could be even higher now.
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: Maxjet Delays Washington Launch

Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 30):
Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 20):
great BUT have you taken into account fuel & insurance surcharges?

Yes.

to clarify surcharges paid for by pax but not part of advertised fare.

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