bkkair
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Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:12 pm

Will the UAE retaliate because of Dubai Ports World? Will Bush's veto save US jobs?

From MSNBC...

WASHINGTON - Next week's expected vote by the House of Representatives to kill the deal in which a state-owned Dubai firm was to run several U.S. container facilities may be a good thing for Republicans...

But is it a bad omen for the employees of Boeing that sell billions of dollars worth of goods to the United Arab Emirates?

Last November Boeing clinched a mammoth deal: the sale of nearly $10 billion worth of commercial aircraft to Emirates, the U.A.E. airline. Once the 42 planes in the transaction are delivered, Emirates airline will be the world’s largest Boeing 777 operator.

Middle Eastern demand for jets is huge. According to the International Civil Aviation Organization, air traffic will grow in the Middle East by 12 percent this year compared to growth of 4 percent in North America.


Retaliation likely?
Cai von Rumohr, an aerospace industry analyst with the investment firm Cowen & Co., said the Emirates is considering the Boeing 787 instead of the Airbus 350 and has already committed to the Boeing 777 due to its superior fuel economy versus the Airbus 340.

An eye on Airbus
But given the Dubai ports furor, von Rumohr said, “I assume it’s something Airbus would try to use in their favor.”

As for the executives running Emirates, von Rumohr said, “I don’t know how they view it — whether they’ll say, ‘It’s just the crazies in Congress.’”

Boeing employs more than 63,000 people in the state of Washington.

For Congress to kill the Dubai Ports deal would “send the exact opposite signal to the rest of the world and to the Middle East from the one the United States should be sending,” said Bruce Josten, executive vice president for government affairs at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

“If there’s going to be retaliation, which frequently takes place in the trade world — the kind of retaliation would be either tariff barriers, non-tariff barriers, or prohibitions similar to any that the Congress of the United States may choose to impose on the ports deal,” Josten said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11724975/
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:24 pm

The execs at Emirates are businessmen, not politicians, and will choose the aircraft that benefits the company, its shareholders, and customers, the most.
 
seanp11
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:36 pm

well, then I guess United, NWA, and US Airways shouldn't be flying Airbusses after that spat our government had with the French over the Iraqui war.
 
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afterburner
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:54 pm

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 2):
Iraqui war

Is Iraqui is one of the native American tribes?  Confused Big grin
 
hawk44
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 1):
The execs at Emirates are businessmen, not politicians, and will choose the aircraft that benefits the company, its shareholders, and customers, the most.

Well said, I doubt the port situation would have any impact on them purchasing an aircraft. Remember airplanes last 20 plus years this port topic will be dead by the end of next year.

Hawk44
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BN747
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:05 pm

Quoting Hawk44 (Reply 4):
Well said, I doubt the port situation would have any impact on them purchasing an aircraft. Remember airplanes last 20 plus years this port topic will be dead by the end of next year.

I hate to disagree, but I can't help but believe that some of the Emirates holdings may also be parties of interest on the Ports deal. And given what's at stake here, if that deal goes down the drain--expect retaliation. It might not come immediately, but it will come.

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
Shenzhen
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:16 pm

Considering they have signed contracts for the 777s and paid deposits, it may not be the best decision to simply walk away. 787/350 is another subject, but I think this is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall relationship.

Cheers
 
murchmo
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:59 pm

Quoting Bkkair (Thread starter):
For Congress to kill the Dubai Ports deal would “send the exact opposite signal to the rest of the world and to the Middle East from the one the United States should be sending,”

This is a good point in the article. Mainly because the reason the ports deal has come under fire is simply because the country is in the Middle East and specifically the UAE--i guess some alleged terrorist made their way through there...I dont have the exact info. I can see the UAE taking it personally and i think it is justified, that will be Bush's fault for not bringing the deal to light earlier...kinda fishy...However if the 787 is just plain more efficient and profitable then they'll go with that.  twocents 
to strive to seek to find and not to yield
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:04 pm

Quoting Murchmo (Reply 7):
i guess some alleged terrorist made their way through there...

some of the 9/11 19 were from there.

but the whole issue is dumb. and notice how the article has NO SOURCE for this claim. It's all conjecture by a guy named "Rumohr", including a suggestion that Airbus try to use it to their advantage. Typical MSNBC anti-America reporting. Which might explain why nobody watches them.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
cricket
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:25 pm

I don't get US politicians - globalisation suits them when they have to go somewhere - but not when someone buys into them. The bush presidency whatever its faults is far more progressive on trade than many US Senators and Congressmen, and in the interests of global trade he should veto silly protectionism measures taken by politicians.
Plus, for gods sake, why on earth does AF operate so many 777's and why are there almost 500 A320 family aircraft flying in the US?
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EI321
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:18 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
No, I have not.

Most of the 19 were from Saudi Arabia. A few (I believe it was 3) were from the UAE. This is one of the "points" that loudmouth radio show hosts have used to say the deal is dangerous for America.

Good point. If the saudis were doing this deal instead of the UAE the reaction would be quite different ....
 
Lumberton
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:31 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
I hate to disagree, but I can't help but believe that some of the Emirates holdings may also be parties of interest on the Ports deal. And given what's at stake here, if that deal goes down the drain--expect retaliation. It might not come immediately, but it will come.

 checkmark  Even if the parties aren't the same, this will impact negatively if some face saving compromise isn't worked out.

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 6):
787/350 is another subject, but I think this is a drop in the bucket compared to the overall relationship.

IMO,the A350/787 deal will likely go to Airbus if this port deal is quashed.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 10):
I don't get US politicians

They are just like yours--fully capable of demgoguing any issue that they will feel will accrue to their advantage. What makes this deal so incendiary is the security dimension.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Tifoso
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:29 pm

Are you telling me that EK will dump 93 777s just because the Ports Deal did not go through? Not a chance.

They are a commercial entity. Boeing may now have to make a sweeter deal on the 787, but I doubt this is going to impact the order in any significant way.
 
EI321
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 pm

Yes, getting back to Dubai. I dont think this will have any effect on the T7 order at all. As for the A350/787 order I cant see a significant impact there either.
 
krisyyz
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:22 pm

EK is not a new to the airline industry. They will not cancel or sign a new order out of spite. EK is a growing airline that need new planes to keep up with its business plan.

EK will order the aircraft that will best meet its operational requirements, be it a Boeing or Airbus.

KrisYYZ
 
bkkair
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:28 pm

They won’t dump their current or ordered 777’s, but this could affect future orders. If the US doesn't need the UAE's investment, why would the UAE buy from the US?

Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum is also Prime Minister of the UAE, which includes:






Depending on how Dubai Ports and the hysterics go, the airlines and people of Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Sharjah can be expected to be biased towards Airbus in the future. In the end, whether they buy Boeing will probably be based on economics, not politics.
 
mptpa
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:28 am

This is totally out of proportion. As one A.netter said "Port seal is for a set finite year, and aircraft last a longer time". Besides, UAE rulers are very close to the US and they said themselves that they will not do a business deal that will sour their relationships. They are allies and therefore like the protection US provides. Besides, US warships are calling UAE ports home, and that is the most effective way for UAE to have security where they are smack in the middle of the hot zone (hello, how far is Iran???)


Emirates will do a business deal, and will not get politics play a role here. France and Europe can use this to their favor.. What about the court case re DWP and UK ports then? Airbus is owned by BAE as well. Albeit, that case got turned to the DWP favor.

This will turn out to be a business deal, and nothing more.
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:33 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 29):
No. The 777 deal is probably safe. Its the A350/787 selection that will most likely be lost for Boeing due to quid pro quo retaliation.

Does that mean the end of the 787-10?
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
Lumberton
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 44):
This is totally out of proportion. As one A.netter said "Port seal is for a set finite year, and aircraft last a longer time". Besides, UAE rulers are very close to the US and they said themselves that they will not do a business deal that will sour their relationships. They are allies and therefore like the protection US provides. Besides, US warships are calling UAE ports home, and that is the most effective way for UAE to have security where they are smack in the middle of the hot zone (hello, how far is Iran???)
Emirates will do a business deal, and will not get politics play a role here. France and Europe can use this to their favor.. What about the court case re DWP and UK ports then? Airbus is owned by BAE as well. Albeit, that case got turned to the DWP favor.
This will turn out to be a business deal, and nothing more.

As you correctly note there is a lot more at stake here than just the ports deal. But...if this deal gets shot down over security concerns (legitimate or otherwise) then there will be enormous pressure on the UAE government to save face. Quid pro quo's will be forthcoming--not the least will be that Boeing will lose out on the next aircraft deal. Post 9/11, the UAE has been a big supporter of the U.S. in the region--a fact lost on those morons in the press and Congress. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail in the Senate. I already see a counter-offensive taking shape in the media regarding the possible impact of Congress disapproving the ports deal (and over-riding Bush's certain veto). When the Patti Murray's of the Senate start assessing the potential impact, I strongly suspect there will be a negotiated settlement that is acceptable to all parties. In other words, cosmetic changes will be made which will allow those horses a$$es in the House of Representative to trumphet their "success" and reconsider their actions. Maybe that's too much wishful thinking on my part, but legislators over here need to remember two arabic words: "Al Yamamah".
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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posti
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:18 am

As an American who has some sense of what the world is like, this ports fiasco is embarrassing. These politicians are making us look like foolish, racist, xenophobic, two faced hypocrites. Anyone who knows anything about UAE knows it is a progressive, modern ally in a hostile region. The US is acting like that childhood friend who, when they want something from you are best friends but turns his back on you the instant you ask for something in return. I haven’t agreed much with the prez in the last few years, and he may not know what xenophobic means, but I admire his firm stance on this issue.

Somebody has got to tell these politicians to get their heads out of the sand. It would be very disconcerting if their misguided actions cost us a large 787 order and soured relations with an Arab ally.
LGW via RAC, LAF, & SEA
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 1):
The execs at Emirates are businessmen, not politicians, and will choose the aircraft that benefits the company, its shareholders, and customers, the most.

I would disagree on this point. The chairman of Emirates is a member of the ruling royal family of UAE. Politics, not necessarily referring to this case particularly, can always have a positive and/or negative effect on business. Business is about profits and you do whatever you have to do to increase your profits, even if it means calling your friend or your family.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
I hate to disagree, but I can't help but believe that some of the Emirates holdings may also be parties of interest on the Ports deal. And given what's at stake here, if that deal goes down the drain--expect retaliation. It might not come immediately, but it will come.

I agree. I don't think retaliation will be explicit, but there may be some undue international hardship to endure. But it would be in UAE's best interest to be on America's good side. It goes both ways too.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 10):
I don't get US politicians - globalisation suits them when they have to go somewhere - but not when someone buys into them. The bush presidency whatever its faults is far more progressive on trade than many US Senators and Congressmen, and in the interests of global trade he should veto silly protectionism measures taken by politicians.
Plus, for gods sake, why on earth does AF operate so many 777's and why are there almost 500 A320 family aircraft flying in the US?

I think the last point was very good. Globalization does prosper anywhere during times of peace. However, you must realize that there hasn't been much "peace" since before 9/11. Every government is on the watch for possible terrorist attacks. Governments other than the US wonder if such terrorism can exist on their soil, while the US constantly wonders when the next terrorist attack is going to hit. I don't think it's being hypocritical in the sense that your own nation's national security should be your utmost priority. Blocking the port deal doesn't mean that the US dislikes the UAE, it's just following the "it's better to prevent than to heal" theory. Americans are understandbly concerned about letting a middle-eastern nation control its ports, it would somewhat be equivalent to the Trojan horse.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 25):
The real retaliation, if Dubai is estopped from investing in the USA, is likely to be that they will start pricing an increasing proportion of their oil in Euros or pounds, and depositing/investing more of the proceeds in Europe instead of in the USA.

I think oil reserves are what gives the UAE a say in today's world, just like Iran.

Quoting Joni (Reply 33):
So what? Timothy McVeigh was American, not to mention Henry Kissinger. Should other countries then ban sales of ports to US companies?

Hmm, you seem to forget that McVeigh was an american terrorist committing a crime in america. How can America discriminate itself?


One of the best topics I've read on A.net! Kudos to Bkkair  Big grin  bigthumbsup 
 
RobTrent
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:50 am

Newbie here so please bear that in mind.

I have read the posts above with interest. I was suprised at some of the reaction to the potential purchase of the port areas by a UAE company.
I am from the UK where port/airport security is managed overall by the government and I assumed that this was the same in the US, (my apologies for any ignorance on my part if I have been under a false impression in this respect) if this is the case then the worries arppear to be unfounded.

As for the issue of B777 V/S 350 I think that the UAE businessmen faced with the realities of airline costs will make the most cost effective decision.

Just my 2 Cents
Rob

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AirRyan
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting Posti (Reply 48):
As an American who has some sense of what the world is like, this ports fiasco is embarrassing. These politicians are making us look like foolish, racist, xenophobic, two faced hypocrites. Anyone who knows anything about UAE knows it is a progressive, modern ally in a hostile region. The US is acting like that childhood friend who, when they want something from you are best friends but turns his back on you the instant you ask for something in return. I haven’t agreed much with the prez in the last few years, and he may not know what xenophobic means, but I admire his firm stance on this issue.

Considering that 80% of US Ports are already controlled by foriegn owned companies, it's readily obvious to me at least that this was just fear-mongering by the JackAssed Political Party otherwise known as the Democrats. The only reason this became an issue is because of all the utter ignorant lack of knowledge of the UAE and their government.

I'd sure hate to see Boeing suffer for the political fallout of some highly inept politicians.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:56 am

I think EK will continue to buy the 777-200LR and 777-300ER for one good reason: low fuel burn and the fact the 777-200LR has the range to fly from DXB to anywhere on the US West Coast on more or less a full load.

I do think EK may buy the A350-900 to replace the older 777-200ER's down the road, though. (By the way, an Airbus plane isn't all-European--something like 1/3 of the parts of the A350 will come from US companies.)
 
christiaan
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:57 am

The difference with the Port sale is that other ports in the US are owned and operated by foreign companies, whereas the UAE Port deal would be owned and operated by the Govt of the UAE....
"Give me the luxuries of life and I will willingly do without the necessities" Frank Lloyd Wright 1932
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:59 am

This deal already went through the mandatory 45-day period, what is "minimum demand" right now is that another 45-day scrunity period comes into play.

Now, let's take a closer look on P&O Ports: apart from the US business they operate port:
- in the UK, probably the strongest ally of the USA. They have no problem in selling this to Dubai Ports.
- in Australia, all main gateways except Adelaide. No problem selling them.
- in Canada. No problem selling them.

Now, how do the US look like when they close the doors to this deal? Right, we can buy what ever we want, but as soon as you want to buy some infrastructure from US, we'll object it! Makes a great and lasting impression...
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BoomBoom
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 54):
Considering that 80% of US Ports are already controlled by foriegn owned companies, it's readily obvious to me at least that this was just fear-mongering by the JackAssed Political Party otherwise known as the Democrats.

You conveniently ignore the fact that much of the opposition is coming from the Republicans. No one does fear-mongering like the GOP. That's how we wound up in Iraq.

[Edited 2006-03-09 18:16:37]
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
trex8
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 58):
No one does fear-mongering like the GOP.

when the GOP does it its patriotic, when anyone else does it its anything but good.

where was Cheney, Gingrich, Buchanan and others in 68??? Hiding as far away from 'Nam as they could!
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting Christiaan (Reply 56):
The difference with the Port sale is that other ports in the US are owned and operated by foreign companies, whereas the UAE Port deal would be owned and operated by the Govt of the UAE....

wrong..there are ports controlled by the Chinese and possibly Singapore Govt. also...
"Up the Irons!"
 
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posti
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 57):
Now, how do the US look like when they close the doors to this deal? Right, we can buy what ever we want, but as soon as you want to buy some infrastructure from US, we'll object it! Makes a great and lasting impression...



Quoting AirRyan (Reply 54):
The only reason this became an issue is because of all the utter ignorant lack of knowledge of the UAE and their government.

Agreed. If we really want to win the war on terror we must think long term. Out aim should not only be to prevent imminent attacks but to put an end to the desire to carry out future attacks. The way to do this is to free ourselves from the image of a global bully and encourage understanding, not ignorance. This ports deal is entirely counterproductive; it opens the door for more resentment and reaffirms premonitions.

If I were on the EK board I would be insulted and would think twice about spending billions on an American product after being snubbed this way.

[Edited 2006-03-09 18:42:03]
LGW via RAC, LAF, & SEA
 
beyauty
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:44 am

Quoting Murchmo (Reply 7):
country is in the Middle East and specifically the UAE--



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
some of the 9/11 19 were from there.

So what? The hijackers also lived and trained in Europe and the US, so should Germany and the US governments and US companies be held responsible for the attacks as well?

In my opinion there will some sort of fallout from this issue should the deal be killed. I think DWP is acting with a high level of professionalism and maturity, part of it is because there's so much at stake, but this will certainly have a huge effect on trade between the 2 countries, including any potential future aircraft deals between the EK and Boeing.
 
jaysit
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:03 am

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2006/03/09/AR2006030901124.html

End of story.

This way everyone can come out smelling like roses. The President will be saved the trials and tribulations of a possible veto. The Congressional Republicans will have shown their supposed independence and in pandering to the worst form of nativism and isolationism will keep the uber anti-Muslim party faithful in tow. And finally the Democrats (those blessed incompetents) will have shown that they can do xenophobia just as well as the next guy.

Free market capitalism will be the ultimate loser.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:10 am

Quoting Pmg1704 (Reply 38):
The US Coast Guard, which is responsible for port security, said "There are many intelligence gaps, concerning the potential for DPW or P&O assets to support terrorist operations, that preclude the completion of a thorough threat assessment of the merger."

I believe US intelligence only after protracted congressional investigations, thank you.
Dear moderators: No.
 
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USAF336TFS
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting Christiaan (Reply 56):
The difference with the Port sale is that other ports in the US are owned and operated by foreign companies, whereas the UAE Port deal would be owned and operated by the Govt of the UAE....

Technically no, this is not so. The ports themselves, Baltimore, New York, etc. are owned by their respective quasi-Goverment enities (Port of Baltimore, Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, etc.). The terminals would be leased by the UAE Port company in question. The ports themselves remain in U.S. controlled hands as they do in every country, IIRC.

The more I think about it, the more this becomes more of an election year gimmick and less of a security issue. Boeing is obviously worried that it will affect their pending and future sales... And I can't blame them for lobbying Congress to at least consider a compromise. At this point, Emirates is their largest customer, and I still think that they'll order the 787-10.

 crossfingers 
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jacobin777
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 65):
and I still think that they'll order the 787-10.

so do I ......... pray ......
"Up the Irons!"
 
JakeOrion
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:51 am

Off-topic: The simple fact that the deal was done behind the scenes and "nobody" knew anything about it until it was "finalized" is what caught everyone by surprise. Had this been handled differently, I believe we would not have nearly as many issues with this.

Back to topic: This will have some influence with EK, but then again, if I was a business man, I would not blame the company as it has nothing to do with them.
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
swissy
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:08 am

[quote=JakeOrion,reply=67]Off-topic: The simple fact that the deal was done behind the scenes and "nobody" knew anything about it until it was "finalized" is what caught everyone by surprise. Had this been handled differently, I believe we would not have nearly as many issues with this.

Agree 100% with you, and yes it will have consequences for the US companies
in the future dealing with the middle east.
I can understand that Boeing has concerns about the side efects from this
delemma, I guess we have to wait and see................
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 52):
I would disagree on this point. The chairman of Emirates is a member of the ruling royal family of UAE.

So whenever anyone questions the financials of EK, they are a completely autonomous company, but now they are just an arm of the Dubai government? Kind of convenient. I agree with the latter, which is why I've always questioned EK financials.

Quoting RobTrent (Reply 53):
if this is the case then the worries arppear to be unfounded

It is the case and the worries are mostly unfounded. Clearly racism, brought out for public scrutiny by the most racist leadership in the USA, the democratic leadership. Responsible for keeping minorities "in their place" for years.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 58):
You conveniently ignore the fact that much of the opposition is coming from the Republicans.

Yes, after they realized how bad they'd look to us fearful americans if they let the Democrats be the only racists speaking up.

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 63):
This way everyone can come out smelling like roses. The President will be saved the trials and tribulations of a possible veto. The Congressional Republicans will have shown their supposed independence and in pandering to the worst form of nativism and isolationism will keep the uber anti-Muslim party faithful in tow. And finally the Democrats (those blessed incompetents) will have shown that they can do xenophobia just as well as the next guy.

You nailed it. And I don't think Dubai really cares. They will basically just hired a puppet USA based management company to act as a middle man, but they will still run the whole thing anyway (not including security, which was never an issue).

I'm surprised more UK residents aren't as up in arms about Dubai buying P&O. That is one of the biggest most important companies around, and it's a huge loss in assets and clout for the UK.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:17 am

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:52 am

TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
astuteman
Posts: 6406
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 69):
I'm surprised more UK residents aren't as up in arms about Dubai buying P&O.

The bulk of the UK merchant fleet, and the intense (historical) patriotic pride that accompanied it disappeared about 20 - 30 years ago.
P+O (and its predecessors) has an immense role in UK maritime history, but as a nation we don't seem to care about things maritime any more .. weeping 

(our shipyard built EVERY Orient line liner from the end of the first world war, to the first Oriana (mid '60's) - some 30+ liners from 30 000t - 50 000t. I'm probably the exception to the rule)
A
 
Halibut
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:43 am

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:03 am

Wooh !

Hold on here ,
I'm a big Bush supporter who feels Mr W should have handled this whole Port deal much differently , a little less heavy handed I feel might have been better .

Can one blame GW for wanting this deal ??? Perhaps ??? Wealth in the Middle East is desparately needed as well as a good Ally too .

However ,

Can one blame some in the US for not wanting this UAE ports deal in the post 911 world ???

Absoluteley not !

This is , most deffinately , a complex situation taking place just 5 yeras after 911 . Let the congress debate & take there time . The political partison hacks should go fly a kite . That means "F-off" !

If this deal does not happen , fine ! However , if it does . They , " congress/Bush " , must do there job & make us feel secure !

Halibut

[Edited 2006-03-09 22:07:01]
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
airbazar
Posts: 7109
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:07 am

This has nothing to do with security and the War in Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. It's all about perception however. Joe Shmoe who's going to go to the voting booth in a few month doesn't know that port security is not handled by the port operators. The Bush administration has been terrorizing the American public with all sorts of empty "threats to America from overseas" in order to get their way and now it's come back to bite them in the ass. Americans are scared of everything and anything that's even remotely associated with the Middle East and they're telling their representatives not to allow this deal to go through.
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2003
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:21 am

Democrats are out for blood, and the blood in the water has sparked a feeding frenzy that they are keep to captitalize on at any cost, even at the cost of turning a ally against us.

On the other hand, if Dubai does force a order here from EK, maybe the EK apologists will finally admit in public that EK is little more then a front for the government of Dubai?
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:44 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 73):
This has nothing to do with security and the War in Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. It's all about perception however. Joe Shmoe who's going to go to the voting booth in a few month doesn't know that port security is not handled by the port operators. The Bush administration has been terrorizing the American public with all sorts of empty "threats to America from overseas" in order to get their way and now it's come back to bite them in the ass. Americans are scared of everything and anything that's even remotely associated with the Middle East and they're telling their representatives not to allow this deal to go through.

Concur. I'm a democrat but this ports deal has offered the chance for some republicans to jump ship and piss all over Bush because he's a lame duck and an unpopular one at that. It's a bipartisan scrum is what it is.

Personally, I think the deal should go through. There are a lot of people who are domestically based that I trust less with port operations than the folks from Dubai.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
ImperialEagle
Posts: 2238
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:53 am

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 67):
The simple fact that the deal was done behind the scenes and "nobody" knew anything about it until

Yeah, and if something like the ports "debacle" is what it takes to get the average American focused on what is going on within our government, and not on todays airing of Jerry Springer then so be it.  sarcastic 

AND I am not the only American who is getting pretty tired of the sneaky, behind the scenes, lobbiest corrupted, politics we have been seeing for way too long now. mad 

I am so glad to hear every one elses opinions and it is nice to be able to share mine. stirthepot 
"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
 
User avatar
posti
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:51 am

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 76):
AND I am not the only American who is getting pretty tired of the sneaky, behind the scenes, lobbiest corrupted, politics we have been seeing for way too long now.

We're getting off topic here but I think this is the opinion of the majority of Americans, problem is we're either too indifferent, lazy, or clueless to fix anything. How is it that we view politicians as sneaky and corrupt yet very few of their constituents act this way.
Perhaps we should run for Congress in 2010...
LGW via RAC, LAF, & SEA
 
atmx2000
Posts: 4301
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:24 pm

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 67):
Off-topic: The simple fact that the deal was done behind the scenes and "nobody" knew anything about it until it was "finalized" is what caught everyone by surprise. Had this been handled differently, I believe we would not have nearly as many issues with this.

The acquisition of P+O was a public affair that started last year. Buying P+O meant DPW bought whatever operations it had, including its US operations. The review of the transfer of US assets mandated by law was done behind the scenes because that is the way the review is supposed to be done. Congress took itself out of the loop well over a decade ago because of the potential for politicization.

Quoting Swissy (Reply 50):
Because you have all the rights and freedom you think you can do what you want...... and offend people????
What about your LA riot????

What about the LA riots? They were wrong, too. Being offended is not justification for murder, arson and rioting.

Quoting Swissy (Reply 50):
What about the US FREE TRADE with Canada & Mexico????

What about it? NAFTA doesn't require NAFTA members to conegotiate trade agreements with other countries, unlike the EU which exists to lower internal trade barriers and coordinate the maintenance of external trade barriers and negotiations that affect those barriers.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2397
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:32 am

Well, it seems that the new owners of P&O in UAE have decided to come to a compromise solution....they have announced that they will transfer all the US port operations to a 'US entity', whatever that means.....
 
AviationAddict
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting Seanp11 (Reply 2):
well, then I guess United, NWA, and US Airways shouldn't be flying Airbusses after that spat our government had with the French over the Iraqui war.

The folks at Emirates are a heck of a lot smarter than the folks at all those U.S. based airlines, no offense to anyone who may work for any of those airlines. But a huge reason why some of those airlines (at least US Airways) are flying Airbuses instead of Boeing products are because they were pissed at Boeing for blaming accidents on them. Revenge isn't always the best business plan, but American companies seem to do it more than anyone else.
 
Lumberton
Posts: 4176
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:34 am

RE: Emirates -Goodbye 777/787, Hello A350?

Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 80):
But a huge reason why some of those airlines (at least US Airways) are flying Airbuses instead of Boeing products are because they were pissed at Boeing for blaming accidents on them.

You mean it had nothing to do with the fact that they got a better business deal from Airbus? Or theat they thought the Airbus product served their business plans better?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".

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