luisde8cd
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AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:24 am

American Airlines have asked the FAA to upgrade Venezuela to CAT I in order to prevent the Venezuelan govt. from suspending 70% of their Venezuelan flights. AA currently operates:

1X daily DFW-CCS (738)
1X daily SJU-CCS (752)
4X daily MIA-CCS (A300, 752, 738)
5X weekly JFK-CCS
1X daily MIA-MAR (738)

The Venezuelan govt has set a March 30 deadline for the FAA to upgrade Venezuela back to CAT I. If Venezuela isn't back in CAT I by March 30, then the Venezuelan Govt. will suspend all of DL and CO flights and will limit AA to only 2X daily CCS-MIA on 738 equipment.

AA believes that Venezuela meets CAT I criteria and that the FAA should visit Venezuela's airports to verify their claim.

Source (SPANISH):
http://www.eluniversal.com/2006/03/09/eco_art_09206D.shtml

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
will limit AA to only 2X daily CCS-MIA on 738 equipment.

Small correction, but it is 3x daily that they will be limited too, the same amount of service that Aeropostal, the only Venezuelan airline in the US, serves MIA with.
a.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:30 am

Is there any reason Venezuela shouldn't be CAT I, Hugo Chavez notwithstanding?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
airA380
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:30 am

Venezuela government can't bully FAA to certify that the airport as CAT I. It should purely based on meeting of CAT I requirement
I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
 
luisde8cd
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):

Small correction, but it is 3x daily that they will be limited too

I stand corrected  Smile

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
the same amount of service that Aeropostal, the only Venezuelan airline in the US, serves MIA with.

Mark, don't forget about Santa Barbara's CCS-MIA with Primaris's 757-200, I flew on that plane last summer  Smile

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
commavia
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:31 am

I think this is a bit disingenuous. AA may have "strongly implied" that they want this issue resolved, but they did not overstep their bounds and actually "recommend" something to a government agency, from what I can see. As quoted here in another article, in English:

American Airlines backs Venezuela's efforts to have an FAA inspection, company spokeswoman Martha Pantin said.

"We fully support having the FAA coming to Venezuela to conduct a full inspection," she said. "We continue to be optimistic that this situation will be resolved." American Senior Vice President Peter Dolara, visiting Caracas Wednesday, called on the FAA to visit Venezuela as soon as possible to review its aviation infrastructure, according to media reports in Caracas.
 
civilav
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 3):
Venezuela government can't bully FAA to certify that the airport as CAT I. It should purely based on meeting of CAT I requirement

Please kindly refer to previous threads on this issue. It has been abundantly established that, for once, there is no question of politics involved in this issue. Only respect for bilateral agreements and a fair treatment for Venezuelan carriers is being sought after the country has made enormous positive changes to its civil aviation supervision, airport equipment and ATC personnel training.

For your information (website:http://www.faa.gov/safety/programs_initiatives/oversight/iasa/ then click document in Excel) FAA International Aviation Safety Assessment programme certification is contingent upon ICAO guidelines.
If ICAO determined a few months ago that Venezuela met over 84% of requirements and qualified for an upgrade, then why has the FAA not done so ? There is no bullying here at all.

Please notice that, since the whole issue came to the forefront and made the headlines a couple of weeks ago, neither the FAA nor any US diplomatic or government staff member has issued a denial of Venezuela's claims or a warning of US retaliatory measures simply because there is nothing to retaliate against.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:41 pm

The thing that I don't get is that Citgo, headquartered in Houston, is owned by Venezuela's state oil company. If the Venezuelan government carries out its stated intentions on limiting U.S. access to Venezuelan airports, then executives and other employees traveling between CCS and IAH will have much longer travel times, since a connection at MIA will be needed.

Regardless of the motivation of the Venezuelan government, it just looks as if the government, while creating aviation policy, is ignoring pragmatic concerns of Venezuela's oil industry.
 
RICARIZA
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:18 pm

I understand that the FAA approve or not approve an airline coming to the US, but why do they have to approve an international airport, in this case CCS?
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
bogota
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 7):
Regardless of the motivation of the Venezuelan government, it just looks as if the government, while creating aviation policy, is ignoring pragmatic concerns of Venezuela's oil industry.

I know it would be traumatic, but the bulk of the inconvenienced would be American company executives, which by the way there are plenty of them based in CCS.

But regardless of Mr. Chavez and his policies, Ricariza has a very valid point here, this policy does not safeguard the safety of American travellers, if Venezuelan airlines were not good enough (which is not the case), then those should be banned from the US, if the US believes Venezuelan standards are not good enough (which according to other international instances is not the case either) , then US airlines should be banned from flying there. But this is clearly a biased, protectionist and political motivated move, that retaliates on the other government for not complying with US point of view and has nothing to do with safety.
 
luisde8cd
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:24 pm

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 8):
I understand that the FAA approve or not approve an airline coming to the US, but why do they have to approve an international airport, in this case CCS?

That's because of the FAA's protectionist and unfair policy of preventing a country's airlines from flying to the US based on "irregularities" on that country's aviation infrastructure.

If a country has an "unsafe" aviation environment, then it is unsafe to ALL airlines including American ones. It does not make sense that an airline gets banned from the US simply because one airport in its country of origin has some "irregularities".

Venezuelan airlines despite having old fleets, have very high safety standards. The last airliner crash in Venezuela was in 2000 when a DC-3 crashed on takeoff in Ciudad Bolivar. Before that, I think we have to go back to the 80s or 70s.

Venezuelan airlines have plans to renew their fleets if Venezuela gets back to CAT I. They are willing to invest some important bucks in order to have newer planes.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:42 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
American Airlines have asked the FAA to upgrade Venezuela to CAT I in order to prevent the Venezuelan govt. from suspending 70% of their Venezuelan flights

OMG... This goes to show how much of a child AA has become post 9-11..

Quoting Luisde8cd (Thread starter):
AA believes that Venezuela meets CAT I criteria and that the FAA should visit Venezuela's airports to verify their claim.

For all those of you who say AA doesnt have friends in Washington... think again!
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
luisde8cd
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 5):
I think this is a bit disingenuous. AA may have "strongly implied" that they want this issue resolved, but they did not overstep their bounds and actually "recommend" something to a government agency, from what I can see. As quoted here in another article, in English:

The "recommend" verb is used in the article. Also I don't think its a translation error. Check this article out, it's from the Houston Chronicle.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/3710547.html

It says:
"American Airlines said the FAA should raise its rating on the South American country's airlines and airports."

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
RICARIZA
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 10):
Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 8):
I understand that the FAA approve or not approve an airline coming to the US, but why do they have to approve an international airport, in this case CCS?

That's because of the FAA's protectionist and unfair policy of preventing a country's airlines from flying to the US based on "irregularities" on that country's aviation infrastructure

That's exactly my point...

Quoting Bogota (Reply 9):
...this is clearly a biased, protectionist and political motivated move, that retaliates on the other government for not complying with US point of view and has nothing to do with safety.

Couldn't have said it better..
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
2travel2know
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:44 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 7):
then executives and other employees traveling between CCS and IAH will have much longer travel times, since a connection at MIA will be needed.

Why MIA?? CM partly owned by CO flies to CCS twice a day and one of those flights offer immediate connections to/from IAH.

AA is the U.S. Airline to lose the most if the FAA doesn't upgrade Venezuela to Cat. 1. It's on AA own interest, not on Venezuelas interest, they are lobbying for the upgrade.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
luisde8cd
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):

AA is the U.S. Airline to lose the most if the FAA doesn't upgrade Venezuela to Cat. 1. It's on AA own interest, not on Venezuelas interest, they are lobbying for the upgrade.

AA will lose no matter what happens. It seems like they've realized that it will less painful for them to have Venezuela in CAT I than just keeping 3 daily flights.

If Venezuela gets upgraded to CAT I, Venezuelan airlines will flock to US Airport. All of them have announced fleet expansions if they get upgraded. By 2006 holiday season, MIA will get more than 12 daily flights from Venezuelan airlines. VH is going after CO, DL and AA with flights to DFW, IAH and ATL. Conviasa is going after CO and AA with flights to NYC (JFK).

They rather fight the competition than to lose their flights.

For Venezuela's sake, I hope that AA has strong lobby capabilities in Washington so that I can fly Venezuelan airlines to the US.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 15):
AA will lose no matter what happens.

AA isn't losing no matter what. The compieitition won't hurt them that much, especially since the market is underserved in the first place. And all this talk about airlines like Aeropostal going to DFW, ATL, etc. is just that - talk. Not happening.
a.
 
luisde8cd
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
AA isn't losing no matter what. The compieitition won't hurt them that much, especially since the market is underserved in the first place

They will lose, 10% or 50% of their pax, who knows? but they will lose. Don't you know that 90% of pax flying between USA and Venezuela are Venezuelan?
Did you know that before Venezuela was downgraded to CAT II, Venezuelan carriers used to have about 50% of the marketshare?
Venezuelan airlines can attract pax if they offer better fares and service than AA and trust me, they will.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
And all this talk about airlines like Aeropostal going to DFW, ATL, etc. is just that - talk. Not happening.

You sound like an AA employee. I sincerely hope it happens. Hopefully we'll see many YV registered planes in MIA in the near future.

Your good contributions to this forum are many times shadowed by ignorant comments like this.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
2travel2know
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 15):
It seems like they've realized that it will less painful for them to have Venezuela in CAT I than just keeping 3 daily flights.
If Venezuela gets upgraded to CAT I, Venezuelan airlines will flock to US Airport. All of them have announced fleet expansions if they get upgraded. By 2006 holiday season, MIA will get more than 12 daily flights from Venezuelan airlines. VH is going after CO, DL and AA with flights to DFW, IAH and ATL. Conviasa is going after CO and AA with flights to NYC (JFK).

Specially if AA 3 daily are MIA-CCS-MIA only.
About those fleet expansions? Venezuelan airlines will be buying/leasing Boeing? A Boeing sale worth hundredmillion U.S. Dollars could sure make some people in the U.S. Government react positively to AA requests.
If VH wants to fly to DFW and IAH, they rather try it via MAR instead of CCS non-stop. MAR does suffer a lot because the lack of good international flights.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
luisde8cd
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
About those fleet expansions? Venezuelan airlines will be buying/leasing Boeing?

Detailed info here:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2642425

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
cedars747
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 15):
AA will lose no matter what happens. It seems like they've realized that it will less painful for them to have Venezuela in CAT I than just keeping 3 daily flights.

I totally agree with you
Saludos desde Noruega
Alex!!!
 wave 
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT

Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 17):

You sound like an AA employee. I sincerely hope it happens. Hopefully we'll see many YV registered planes in MIA in the near future.

Your good contributions to this forum are many times shadowed by ignorant comments like this

Where did I ever say I didn't hope it happens? I am very excited about Ascerca and others plans to expand service to the US, especially because Aserca is planning on connecting MIA with non-stops to destinations not currently served, Barcelona and Barquisimeto.

At the same time, like all small Latin airlines, all they are doing is talking, and I won't buy any of it until those planes are delivered. Every South American airline always announces ambition expansion plans that almost always falter. Unfortunately, they have built a poor track record on following through with their plans, and when they actually do - i.e. Aserca's first attempt at MIA service; Southern Winds to MIA/MAD - the service is often short lived. Of the dozens of South American (and not just Venezuelan) airlines that say "We will be flying to MIA..." in the past six years or so, the only one that has followed through successfully is Santa Barbara.

My comments aren't ignorant, they are realistic based on past history. Just because you want to buy the hype because of your passion for Venezuelan airlines, which is great, doesn't mean my opinion is ignorant.
a.
 
luisde8cd
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
My comments aren't ignorant, they are realistic based on past history.

Based on a generalization of South American airlines. I fail to recall any announced services to the US by Venezuelan airlines that never took place.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Just because you want to buy the hype because of your passion for Venezuelan airlines, which is great, doesn't mean my opinion is ignorant.

It looks like you haven't read the news articles that say that Venezuelan airlines have secured loans worth USD 200+ million in order to get the planes. The lessors are indentified and they are only waiting on the FAA to put us in CAT I.

No wonder the decision of the INAC to ban US airlines was because of strong lobbying by Venezuelan airlines.

So yes I still keep my statement regarding your opinion which is based purely in a vague generalization and lack of information regarding Venezuelan carriers' financial data.

I'm very optimitic about Venezuelan airlines' plans for 2006, but I know there's a chance that those plans actually won't materialize, although based on what I've read, it looks that it is highly probable to see them materialize.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
N1120A
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Is there any reason Venezuela shouldn't be CAT I

No, there isn't. The reason Venezuela is not CAT I is because the Bush Administration wanted to squeeze Chavez

Quoting MalpensaSFO (Reply 11):
OMG... This goes to show how much of a child AA has become post 9-11..

Actually, they have a very legitimate complaint here.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 22):
Based on a generalization of South American airlines. I fail to recall any announced services to the US by Venezuelan airlines that never took place.

Aeropostal to JFK and FLL; Santa Barbara to FLL in agreement with Spirit; Santa Barbara MIA-MAR; Aeropostal has "announced" MIA-PMV for April, but has yet to put it in GDS. They also say they will be flying to Orlando and Atlanta this summer, but have yet to apply with DOT for Atlanta rights. I really want to see Aeropostal expand just as much as you did, but so far it is all talk, zero action.
a.
 
civilav
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 24):
but so far it is all talk, zero action.

I know you mean well and things can get a little heated up here in the forum.

I myself too, have become very suspicious of Aeropostal because I know first hand of the nature of its owner. However, having said that, you must also look wider to the general context in which Venezuelan civil aviation finds itself nowadays.

Truth is that whatever plans may be spelt by Venezuelan airlines, if the US govt. will not budge on the issue of CAT 1, then they will just not happen. Operating with leased equipment such as they are forced to, apart from being a heavy economic burden and a disadvantage vis-à-vis US carriers, is a hindrance to expansion. Additionally, the US government has failed to give the OK (allowed for, I stress this, under the current bilateral between both countries) to further services such as the ones mooted about by Aeropostal. Remember Aeropostal inherited, de jure, rights held by the former LAV and that includes services to Atlanta and Orlando.

In a nutshell, if they have to continue flying with rented planes on a sort of semi-wet lease to service the US, then only Miami will get served as the economics are just not there.

For your information, just as an example, if my memory serves me correctly, in the summer months of 1993 traffic between Venezuela and the US by Venezuelan carriers was as follows:

AVENSA / SERVIVENSA
8 daily flights with 727-200 equipment (rates of USD 99 ow) CCS-MIA
1 daily flight Barquisimeto - Maracaibo - Miami
1 daily flight San Antonio del Táchira-Maracaibo-Miami
1 daily flight Valencia-Miami
1 daily flight Caracas-New York

VIASA
2 daily flights from Caracas to Miami
1 daily flight Caracas-New York
4 times a week Caracas-Orlando
4 times a week Caracas-Houston
1 daily flight Maracaibo - Miami
1 daily flight Puerto Ordaz-Barcelona-Miami
1 daily flight Porlamar-Miami

Zuliana de Aviación
2 daily flights Maracaibo-Miami

JD Valenciana
1 daily flight Valencia-Miami
3 times a week Valencia-Orlando

LINEA AEROPOSTAL VENEZOLANA
4 flights a week Caracas-Atlanta
1 flight daily Caracas-Aruba-Orlando

On the US side, you had services by American Airlines, Continental and United and competition was tough - guess who benefited ??

Greetings from Cancún !
 
gigneil
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:49 pm

Citgo execs and employees will simply fly a corporate jet if this comes to pass. They can certainly afford one.

N
 
RICARIZA
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
Is there any reason Venezuela shouldn't be CAT I

I have a real question, with no hidden agenda.

On another thread a Venezuelan A.Netter said that there were some issues with the lack of VORs and radars and that only the one in Maiquetia was in service. Can someone please clarify if these issues are real or not?
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
B4REAL
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:10 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 7):
then executives and other employees traveling between CCS and IAH will have much longer travel times, since a connection at MIA will be needed.

Actually MEX would be an easier connection than MIA should the CO and DL routes be suspended and AA be slashed.

I currently have a project in CCS, and my contingency plans are to go through MEX to CCS.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
RICARIZA
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting B4real (Reply 28):
I currently have a project in CCS, and my contingency plans are to go through MEX to CCS

You also have the option of BOG and its many connections to cities in Venezuela.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
B4REAL
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 29):
You also have the option of BOG and its many connections to cities in Venezuela

True, but for me (and many others in the US possibly effected by this possible stoppage), MEX is easier to get to than BOG, and the trip can be done in one day instead of an overnight connection.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
adriaticus
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:27 am

Quoting Civilav (Reply 6):
...since the whole issue came to the forefront and made the headlines a couple of weeks ago, neither the FAA nor any US diplomatic or government staff member has issued a denial of Venezuela's claims or a warning of US retaliatory measures...

I would also interpret that as a signal they may be looking for ways to review and eventually straighten up the situation, saving face at the same time.

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lamedianaranja
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Is there any reason Venezuela shouldn't be CAT I

Like mentioned already in a couple of posts, even if (mind, if) Venezuela's aviation infrastructure (air traffic controllers, ILS) is not up to standard that is the problem of the American airline flying there. It wants to come to Venezuela, fine, do so at your own risk. It has absolutely nothing to do with the safety record of Venezuelan airlines flying into the US.

So to make this CAT1, 2 ,3 system more fair the FAA should IMHO just isssue a warning to American carriers if they think the situation warrants it, and inspect the paperwork of Venezuelan carriers when they are on American soil. Only then they have the right to judge.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
RICARIZA
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 32):
Like mentioned already in a couple of posts, even if (mind, if) Venezuela's aviation infrastructure (air traffic controllers, ILS) is not up to standard that is the problem of the American airline flying there. It wants to come to Venezuela, fine, do so at your own risk. It has absolutely nothing to do with the safety record of Venezuelan airlines flying into the US.

So to make this CAT1, 2 ,3 system more fair the FAA should IMHO just isssue a warning to American carriers if they think the situation warrants it, and inspect the paperwork of Venezuelan carriers when they are on American soil. Only then they have the right to judge.

Exactly!!!!
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
adriaticus
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:38 am

So no news on this yet? Is March 30 still the date for CO, DL last flights to Venezuela, as well as AA's reduction, (at least for the time being)?

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masseybrown
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT

Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:06 am

Many of the people posting in this thread do not have a very clear idea what Catergory 1 and Category 2 mean.

The FAA does NOT inspect foreign airports; it does NOT inspect foreign airlines. It assesses whether or not the civil aviation authority (the government) of a country is able to enforce ICAO standards.

The definitions:

The FAA has established two ratings for the status of these civil aviation authorities at the time of the assessment: (1) does comply with ICAO standards, (2) does not comply with ICAO standards.

Category 1. Does Comply with ICAO Standards: A civil aviation authority has been assessed by FAA inspectors and has been found to license and oversee air carriers in accordance with ICAO aviation safety standards.

Category 2. Does Not Comply with ICAO Standards: The Federal Aviation Administration assessed this country's civil aviation authority (CAA) and determined that it does not provide safety oversight of its air carrier operators in accordance with the minimum safety oversight standards established by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO). This rating is applied if one or more of the following deficiencies are identified: (1) the country lacks laws or regulations necessary to support the certification and oversight of air carriers in accordance with minimum international standards; (2) the CAA lacks the technical expertise, resources, and organization to license or oversee air carrier operations; (3) the CAA does not have adequately trained and qualified technical personnel; (4) the CAA does not provide adequate inspector guidance to ensure enforcement of, and compliance with, minimum international standards; and (5) the CAA has insufficient documentation and records of certification and inadequate continuing oversight and surveillance of air carrier operations.
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 35):
it does NOT inspect foreign airlines.

So whose are those inspectors on board?

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 35):
The FAA has established two ratings for the status of these civil aviation authorities at the time of the assessment: (1) does comply with ICAO standards, (2) does not comply with ICAO standards.

(1) no restrictions
(2) foreign carriers may fly but with N-regs
(3) foreign carriers are banned

That's what we're talking about and most of us have it clear  Wink
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4444
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT

Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 36):
So whose are those inspectors on board?

Any FAA presence should only be to confirm compliance with and enforcement of Venezuelan CAA direction and to determine the adequacy of CAA audit procedures. Any findings would be directed to the CAA for its review, not to the airline.

Have your experiences been otherwise?
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1111
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:12 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 22):
So yes I still keep my statement regarding your opinion which is based purely in a vague generalization and lack of information regarding Venezuelan carriers' financial data.

What "financial data" are you talking about? There is not a SINGLE publicly-traded Venezuelan carrier; none of these carriers files financial statements with securities regulators. How do you propose obtaining the financial statements of a non-publicly-traded, non-registered, Venezuelan carrier?

There are several carriers from Latin America that are not only publicly-traded, but trade on the New York Stock Exchange and are registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

G3 - Gol, NYSE: "GOL", Market capitalization: USD 10.6 billion
JJ - TAM, NYSE: "TAM", Market capitalization: USD 2.8 billion
LA - LAN, NYSE: "LAN", Market capitalization: USD 2.4 billion
CM - COPA, NYSE: "CPA", Market capitalization: USD 1.0 billion

All of these carriers file annual audited and reviewed quarterly financial statements with the SEC.

So, Venezuelan carriers may have access to local funding from Venezuelan banks, not a single one, not VH, not Santa Barbara, has ever been able to tap the international capital markets.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:23 pm

A little update...

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1142373704.html

March 14, 2006
The United States will suspend flights by Venezuelan airlines if Caracas carries out a threat this month to ban or restrict US carriers flying to Venezuela, the US ambassador said on Tuesday.

"Hopefully that will not happen, because if that happens, it is not only possible or probable, but an absolute certainty the US government and Transport Department would suspend flights by Venezuelan airlines," Ambassador William Brownfield said.

The FAA has proposed meetings with Venezuelan officials for April 17 to discuss the dispute.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LatinPlane
Posts: 2474
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 39):
March 14, 2006
The United States will suspend flights by Venezuelan airlines if Caracas carries out a threat this month to ban or restrict US carriers flying to Venezuela, the US ambassador said on Tuesday

Crap! If the situation is to get any more tense, I don't see either Venezuela or the U.S. budging. The only airline that would fly between VEN and the U.S. would be LAN! Lose/Lose situation!

 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:02 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 39):
for April 17

Isn't that a bit late if the deadline stands for the end of March? Or do you think Venezuela will extend it by 1 more month but run the risk of not being taken seriously because they keep pushing the date ahead?
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
coa747
Posts: 380
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:33 pm

I would like to hear what the FAA has to say about the matter. Since they are the ones at the center of the dispute. Just what are their reasons for keeping Venezuela at CAT II. At least that way we could no if this was a legitimate argument from the FAA. But given the FAA's history I would have to say most likely they are quite unreasonable in their stance. But I have no doubt the US would retaliate and ban all Venezuelan carriers from the US. Let us just hope it doesn't come to that.
 
luisde8cd
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 41):
Isn't that a bit late if the deadline stands for the end of March? Or do you think Venezuela will extend it by 1 more month but run the risk of not being taken seriously because they keep pushing the date ahead?

The Aviation Authorities here in Venezuela have just ratified that their deadline of March 30 stands despite the FAA announcement of visiting Venezuela on April 14th.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:20 am

Continental put this out today..
http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/060317/1261483.html?.v=1

I suppose CO can channel some passengers via COPA's twice daily service.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Continental plans for outcome of U.S.-Venezuela aviation rights dispute.

Continental Airlines Inc. said Friday that the airline plans to try to accommodate travel needs of passengers to and from Caracas, Venezuela, through its network in the region, in case the Venezuelan government suspends the operating rights of U.S. airlines on March 30.

Continental will also allow passengers to exchange tickets without penalties and to get full refunds.

At this time, no flights have been canceled and operations continue normally.

Continental remains committed to the Venezuela market and to providing service from its Houston and New York-area hubs, and hopes that the negotiations between Venezuela's National Institute of Civil Aviation and the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration will develop positively in the next days.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting Pdpsol (Reply 38):
There is not a SINGLE publicly-traded Venezuelan carrier; none of these carriers files financial statements with securities regulators. How do you propose obtaining the financial statements of a non-publicly-traded, non-registered, Venezuelan carrier?

So you have to be publicly traded to be a safe carrier now? I wonder what Spirit has to say about that?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
PDPsol
Posts: 1111
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:09 am

RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
So you have to be publicly traded to be a safe carrier now? I wonder what Spirit has to say about that?

N1120A, my post had nothing to do with carrier safety but, rather, the availability of financial information.

Spirit and many other privately-held carriers, AV, AR, EI [state-owned, but privately-held] have very good safety records.

My post asked Luisd8cd how one could possibly obtain financial information via the public domain for Venezuelan carriers.
 
adriaticus
Posts: 989
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT I

Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:50 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 39):
March 14, 2006
The United States will suspend flights by Venezuelan airlines if Caracas carries out a threat this month to ban or restrict US carriers flying to Venezuela, the US ambassador said on Tuesday.



Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 43):
The Aviation Authorities here in Venezuela have just ratified that their deadline of March 30 stands despite the FAA announcement of visiting Venezuela on April 14th.

Diplomacy at its finest, I say. Yeah sure

On a first stage, DL and CO are loosing far more returns from their investments than already-strapped Venezuelan carriers. The business of all travelers between the USA and Venezuela will end up going to other, non-USA, non-Venezuelan carriers, such as AV, MX, LP, CM... I'm sure they are drooling already... bottomline, IMHO, the worst case scenario looks like American interests will be affected to a greater extent than the Venezuelan.

But on a second stage, let's assume the INAC (or crazy monkey, whatever), decide to leverage on the situation... Let's picture this: March 31, there is not a single flight from a Venezuela-based carried into the US airspace. April 1, crazy monkey addresses a huge public demonstration (broadcast everywhere in Latin America), crying bloody murder, the rich against the poor, the abuse of the empire and all of that crap, and immediately thereafter, announces the applicattion a couple of the regime's favourite, well-sounding measures, "reciprocity and dignity", effective immediately... They would entail the cancellation not only of the remaining flights from AA, but those of FX into VLN as well. More economic victims. And only on the US side... On this second stage, triggered only by the US stance, only US air carriers would loose business to other nations' carriers of both pax and cargo.

Seems to me Ambassador Brownfield's statements show the US hasn't properly evaluated the situation and its possible outcomes... I am sure crazy monkey threw a party and danced a conga line upon hearing the US new position... It most certainly serves its overarching purposes very well.

We'll see. Together with him I hope it won't happen, for the sake of air passengers if for anything else.

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RIHNOSAUR
Posts: 336
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RE: AA Recommends FAA To Upgrade Venezuela To CAT

Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:42 pm

"If Venezuela gets upgraded to CAT I, Venezuelan airlines will flock to US Airport. All of them have announced fleet expansions if they get nupgraded. By 2006 holiday season, MIA will get more than 12 daily nflights from Venezuelan airlines. VH is going after CO, DL and AA with flights to DFW, IAH and ATL. Conviasa is going after CO and AA with flights to NYC (JFK).

They rather fight the competition than to lose their flights.

For Venezuela's sake, I hope that AA has strong lobby capabilities in Washington so that I can fly Venezuelan airlines to the US."

Comentario muy inteligente Luis de caracas!

This has been a very intelligent remark here, for one I hope AA can influence the FAA, that way there will be more competition on the CCS-to U.S market. Personally AA service to Caracas totally stinks, I have paid extra (not much) just to avoid flying them (to CCS) ..but I wished there were more venezuelan carriers available. And I really do think people given more options will start to prefer other airlines if they can obtain better quality service than AA (which I don't think will be hard to do).

On another note, there is all this explanation as to what the FAA considers safe and not safe, but can some one explain to me the following:
If Venezuela or Venezuelan aeronautical facilities and services are not up to standards why is it that they limit carriers (in particular Venezuelan) flying form CCS into US??? I mean, shouldn't they limit U.S carriers to CCS??? The problem is Venezuela not US...(according to FAA), so in other words, what does limiting Venezuelan carriers and NOT U.S. carriers do for U.S safety, since U.S carriers are using the "unsafe" airports anyway...

sorry but this does not make much sense to me at all...??

Just need some clarification

finally, if things go down the negative road (I hope not), another option that I believe hasn't been mentioned is to fly through SJO by TACA Smile

PS. visit Venezuela it is a south American beauty! un saludo a los panas!!!
particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...