skibum9
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 1:13 pm

Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:31 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/wlwt/2006031...;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-

Passengers on a flight bound for Cincinnati subdued a 48-year-old man who allegedly punched an off-duty crew member.

According to the article, the man started to make bizarre comments, then approached the open cockpit.

Looks like it was Commutair flight 8820. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UCA8820

Doesn't the Beech 1900 have a secure cockpit door? If so, why was it open?
Tailwinds!!!
 
cvg2lga
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:48 am

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:37 pm

When I worked for skyway out of CVG with the 1900's i was amazed the first time i got on it to MKE for training. The flightdeck doors pull together to shut and you can actually see over them. There are mirrors posted above the pilots to where they can see the back of the cabin.
Hope it helps
Tchau
DA-
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
DALjr
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:25 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:50 pm

I actually heard this flight once it landed on a scanner, although at the time was unaware of what was happening. The plane turned off the runway, stopped and shut down on the taxiway. Obviously the pilot sounded very frantic, and seemed upset that it took so long for the emergency vehicles to arrive. This being one of our busy times, I was unable to listen for further information although this story may have a few more details http://www.nbc4i.com/news/7892616/detail.html

DALjr
 
cvg2lga
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:48 am

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:19 pm

anyone know what time it landed in CMH? would like to pull the atc up and listen if its available.
Tchau
DA-
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:21 pm

Quoting Skibum9 (Thread starter):

Doesn't the Beech 1900 have a secure cockpit door? If so, why was it open?

Nope. Just little partition type things, and even those are open on most flights.
 
DALjr
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:25 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:37 pm

Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 3):
anyone know what time it landed in CMH? would like to pull the atc up and listen if its available.

If I remember, it was between 1:30 and 2:00, maybe just a few minutes after 2 if that.

DALjr
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:58 pm

Quoting Skibum9 (Thread starter):
Doesn't the Beech 1900 have a secure cockpit door? If so, why was it open?

Sure...and they're worthless. Most pilots don't close them because A. They rattle like crazy, B. The crew can then turn around to check on the pax in the cabin if need be, C. They aren't worth the 5 lbs they weigh.

Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 1):
There are mirrors posted above the pilots to where they can see the back of the cabin.

Of all the B1900s I've been on (cargo and the 1900D's of GQ), I've never once seen these mirrors...
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:18 am

The mirrors don't really do anything, pilots can't really tell whats going on cause the mirrors suck. Also most of the skyway 1900Ds have newer leather/kevlar curtain door things. But after 9/11 all cockpit doors are shut on skyway flights.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:21 am

Great, now this is going to make Commutair start shutting the doors. That was the only good thing about flying a Commutair Beech... getting to watch the cockpit. Always takes one A-hole to ruin it for everyone... this guy should be hung.
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 8):
Great, now this is going to make Commutair start shutting the doors. That was the only good thing about flying a Commutair Beech... getting to watch the cockpit.

Highly doubt it. Like I said before...closing these doors is pointless. Even though being an employee of GQ, several times while flying I've seen people get up and try to walk to the cockpit to do some stupid thing or another. If I'm not the first person to say something...someone else ALWAYS stops them before they get all the way up. I've gotten some pretty interesting responses, but once I pop out the SIDA badge...they sit back down. There's no reason for them to be up there unless they have some kind of medical emergency...
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
skibum9
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 1:13 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:03 am

I guess it surprises me that the TSA requires airliners to have secure doors and have in countless times attacked GA because of security issues, but they allow planes, like the Beech 1900s, fly around with basically no security for the cockpit. Seems like it is security issue just waiting to happen.
Tailwinds!!!
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:16 am

On aircraft which seat 19 passengers (or less), an airline is not required to fly with a Flight Attendant. So, if the door was closed, who is going to keep an eye on passengers?
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
Caspian27
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:48 am

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting Skibum9 (Thread starter):
Doesn't the Beech 1900 have a secure cockpit door? If so, why was it open?

Great Lakes 1900's only have a curtain.
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
Skydrol
Posts: 1053
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:01 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 9):
There's no reason for them to be up there unless they have some kind of medical emergency...

Interesting. On AC Jazz flights, after giving pax the safety briefing, the F/O usually states if anyone finds it too hot, too cold, or any other concerns to walk up front and let them know. Only seen this done once. The cabin heat was a little oppressive, and a lady got up and went to the flight deck and shortly afterwards there was reilef from the heat!

Luckily she wasn't 'subdued' or we all would have been well-done before landing!



LD4
∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:28 am

So much for security. I dont like this. I dont care if you guys want to see what the piolts are doing. Secure doors need to be on every plane! It is for everyones safety.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 10):
I guess it surprises me that the TSA requires airliners to have secure doors and have in countless times attacked GA because of security issues, but they allow planes, like the Beech 1900s, fly around with basically no security for the cockpit. Seems like it is security issue just waiting to happen.

Except that the 1900 can't do much real damage. I don't want to sound callous to people that may be hurt or killed in such an incident, but crashing a 1900 into a building is a far, far cry from using 767's. For once, this seems like a sensible break in the regs. And as we all know, 9/11 will *never* happen again in the United States. This is just another example of what is already well understood.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:37 am

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 15):
And as we all know, 9/11 will *never* happen again in the United States

Yeah dont be to sure about that buddy. I dont really like some of these airports. The TSA are horrible. For example, in DTW, some of the TSA that I have seen scanning things are not even looking at the screen. They just let things go threw while they talk do their buddy off to the side. IAD is one of the good ones I have been at. Same with SFO and OAK.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:39 am

Yes I ride the Bae Jetstreams 32 quite a bit MWA-STL and I enjoy sitting behind the cockpit and watching them fly the plane, very exciting to watch them. The pilots will turn and talk to me sometimes answering questions or explaining what he was doing. This was on RegionsAir, former Corporate Airlines.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
DL787932ER
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:27 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 16):

The TSA has nothing to do with why a 9/11 event can't and won't ever happen again, at least in the U.S. Passengers realize that in the event of a hijacking, being a sheep won't save their own lives, and will probably result in a lot of deaths on the ground. Terrorists could bring box cutters, machetes, or chainsaws on board, and they'd never make it into the cockpit alive because it'd be them against a whole bunch of po'ed Americans.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1376
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:04 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 16):
Yeah dont be to sure about that buddy. I dont really like some of these airports. The TSA are horrible. For example, in DTW, some of the TSA that I have seen scanning things are not even looking at the screen. They just let things go threw while they talk do their buddy off to the side. IAD is one of the good ones I have been at. Same with SFO and OAK.

My belief that 9/11 can never happen again has nothing to do with the TSA or any other government agency. It has everything to do with my faith in my fellow countrymen. I just don't believe that passengers will sit by and allow planes to be hijacked and flown into buildings. Heck, I'm skeptical they'd ever let anybody get close to the cockpit. Ever.

Would you?
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:16 pm

Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 19):
My belief that 9/11 can never happen again has nothing to do with the TSA or any other government agency. It has everything to do with my faith in my fellow countrymen. I just don't believe that passengers will sit by and allow planes to be hijacked and flown into buildings. Heck, I'm skeptical they'd ever let anybody get close to the cockpit. Ever.

Would you?

Well I would agree. My fellow country men are the best defense. But, I believe that something needs to happen before the flight to make it even tougher for things like this to happen. Does it always have to be that every single person, before they fly, must look around at who is boarding the plane, dont take a nap on your flight, keep an eye out, stair at people that are suspisious? Me personaly, I try to sit towords the front of the plane. I feel that I am quite a big guy that can do something when the time is needed. I pray to God Almighty that I will never have to be, nor anyone else, in that situation. But I think that things need to happen in the airport first. I think that the checked luggage is outstanding now. The carry on is a different story. I have no problem waiting another 30 min to a hour to make sure that the flight is safe.

Side question, are the air marshals only on the bigger birds? Do you think that there are some on the CRJ, EMB, Saab?
Don't Tread On Me!
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:31 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 20):
Do you think that there are some on the CRJ, EMB, Saab?

I can't tell you with what frequency but the answer is yes. I have seen airmarshalls on CRJ's and turboprops.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
GQfluffy
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:25 pm

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 14):
I dont care if you guys want to see what the piolts are doing.

It's more vice-versa. With a big, bulky, heavy (remember a 30 lb door on a 1900D means one less checked bag or carry-on) door, you lose cabin space and with no F/A, with that door closed, the PIC or F/O can't see the pax in the cabin. Not necessarily a good thing, don't you think?
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
skibum9
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 1:13 pm

RE: Passengers Subdue Man On Cincinnati-Bound Flight

Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 22):
It's more vice-versa. With a big, bulky, heavy (remember a 30 lb door on a 1900D means one less checked bag or carry-on) door, you lose cabin space and with no F/A, with that door closed, the PIC or F/O can't see the pax in the cabin. Not necessarily a good thing, don't you think?

Even if the pliot does see something, in a plane that size he (she) would have a very limited time to react to protect the plane. If there is no requirement for a door on a plane that size, then maybe it should be a requirement that all the pilots on a plane that size be FFDOs.
Tailwinds!!!