lowecur
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Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:20 pm

Analyst Bob McAdoo of Prudential stated this glaring fact on his downgrade yesterday. He cited all the Boston ftls, and really hinted at Jetblue's obsession with long haul flights as the culprit. Of course long-haul flts offer low CASM, but it is an artificial elixir that spelled doom for the old ATA. He cited the Florida flts and short haulers upstate as profitable.

Since Neeleman has hinted at deferring deliveries in the near term, I believe that Airbus will be the loser once this strategy is implemented (and I believe it will be implemented very shortly). Money will be made on the RASM end with the short to medium haul 190 in the next few years. They're already trying some shorthaul out west with the announcements from BUR.

http://www.newyorkbusiness.com/news.cms?id=13154

http://www.nj.com/business/ledger/in...iness-2/114205650167800.xml&coll=1

[Edited 2006-03-11 14:26:14]
 
WDBRR
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:31 pm

A route is not usually profitable from the start, it usually takes time to build loyalty and loads.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:07 pm

I think frequency plays a role in whether or not a route is profitable.
 
Cory6188
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 2):
I think frequency plays a role in whether or not a route is profitable.

As in more frequency = profitability or less frequency = profitability?
 
texan
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 3):
As in more frequency = profitability or less frequency = profitability?

The general hub rule (I know we aren't talking about a hub, but it is a good analogy in this case) is that if one airline has more flights to more cities more frequently, that airline will receive a disproportionately large amount of the traffic. So theoretically, if jetBlue were to operate 10 daily flights between BOS-LGB/BUR, they would receive a large amount of LA bound traffic. It will not necessarily make routes profitable, however. All it does is give the airline increased market share.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
SLUAviator
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:30 am

I like the part about the camels, Pat!
What do I know? I just fly 'em.......
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:36 am

I'm sorry. More frequency = profitability.
 
We're Nuts
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:46 am

Maybe people do prefer Starbucks coffee after all....
Dear moderators: No.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Texan (Reply 4):
All it does is give the airline increased market share.

This is what damn near killed CO way back in 1992. They had 16 daily flight between Greenville S.C., and Greensboro, N.C., and 8 dailies between Kansas City and Omaha, not to mention all the intra-Florida flights they used to have at $19, where you could also add a companion for only 1 cent more. Needless to say, those were the first things to go when Gordon took over.
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notbluejet
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:17 am

That is not the case here though... I do not know of any route that is flooded with flights and not profitable on jetblues end.

The Florida flights are the ones that are saturated with frequency but they are also packed with 90%+ load factors. West coast startups are difficult, usually starting with one to two flights a day. Only ones that came out with a bang that I can remmber is Burbank with 3 dailys. Besides that Im not sure if space is an issue or if there just is no capacity in those markets.

Cities like PHX, ONT, PDX remain with 1 daily evening flight and a red eye return. This prevents RON of aircraft there for a prolonged period of time but in this case may be hurting profitablity with the somewhat inconvenient flight times.
 
notbluejet
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 8):
This is what damn near killed CO way back in 1992. They had 16 daily flight between Greenville S.C., and Greensboro, N.C., and 8 dailies between Kansas City and Omaha, not to mention all the intra-Florida flights they used to have at $19, where you could also add a companion for only 1 cent more. Needless to say, those were the first things to go when Gordon took over.

I do not see how this applies because the editor is stating that the upstate/florida routes are the ones that will help profits.

B6 has no intra-florida routes...... by florida routes he means JFK/EWR/BOS/LGA to florida.
 
georgiaame
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:33 am

I don't know how many routes JetBlue has abandoned, but I do know that I really enjoyed them Oakland to Atlanta a few years back. I'm still ticked that they pulled out, lack of profitability, but apparently they just could not compete against both Delta and AirTran, very much to Atlanta's loss. I am sure that lesson has not been lost on their management team. They are a good airline, offering a good product at a good price, and up until very recently, making a profit at it. They aren't in business to lose money, as the big six seem to be, and I cannot believe that lesson is lost at the top.

So a small plea to JetBlue: extend, but don't overextend, keep raking in the bucks, and please, come back to Atlanta! We could really use you.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:45 am

Transcons have historically been low-yield money pits.

America West tried LAX/SFO-JFK/BOS flights for a year or so, then unceremoniously dumped them because they couldn't make money on them.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 12):
Transcons have historically been low-yield money pits.

No, they have not. They have historically been high-yield money makers. However, since jetBlue entered the trans-con market from FLL, IAD, BOS, and JFK, the four biggest trans-con markets, the yields have suffered.
a.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting Notbluejet (Reply 10):
B6 has no intra-florida routes...... by florida routes he means JFK/EWR/BOS/LGA to florida.

I was merely stating an example of the pitfalls of market share.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
However, since jetBlue entered the trans-con market from FLL, IAD, BOS, and JFK, the four biggest trans-con markets, the yields have suffered.

How many airlines operate transcon now? DL (barely), UA, AA, CO, B6, HP/US, any others...?
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MAH4546
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 14):

How many airlines operate transcon now? DL (barely), UA, AA, CO, B6, HP/US, any others...?

Between the Miami/Washington/NYC/Boston and Los Angeles/San Fran/Seattle you have...

AA, AS, B6, CO, DL, UA

BOS: AA, AS, B6, CO, DL, UA

JFK: AA, B6, DL, UA
EWR: AA, AS, CO, UA

IAD: AA, AS (ending in June), B6, UA
DCA: AS

MIA: AA, AS
FLL: AA, B6, DL

SEA: AA, AS, B6, CO, DL, UA

SFO: AA, CO, DL, UA
SJC: B6, CO, UA
OAK: B6

LAX: AA, AS, CO, DL, UA
ONT: B6
SNA: CO
LGB: B6
BUR: B6
a.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
They have historically been high-yield money makers.

Especially for airlines that offer a first class product. Transcons LAX/SFO-NYC are one of the few routes in the USA where paying F pax are plentiful, and fares on these routes are high in F.

B6 doesn't offer anything but their standard fares, and they refuse to price the last minute one-way fares with the market (and people seem to be willing to pay those fares), so they are losing out on two high-yield parts of flying transcon right there. They also lose out by not connecting pax on to Europe in NYC, so they must rely on O&D non-premium, non-discount (WN) transcon traffic only, and compete with advance Y fares on CO, DL, UA, AA, US and others to do it. Tall order...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
MajorNelson
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:36 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 11):

So a small plea to JetBlue: extend, but don't overextend, keep raking in the bucks, and please, come back to Atlanta! We could really use you.

Come back to ATL? When did B6 fly there b4?
I turn Tops into Bottoms.
 
rwsea
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:39 am

I think part of B6's problem is that they fly to places like LGB, BUR, ONT and OAK instead of LAX and SFO. The yields are at SFO and LAX - they are preferred for business travellers because they are generally closer to the business centers, plus they offer international connections.

I could see B6 doing well with a couple frequencies to each city, but they're mainly chasing the leisure crowd with their choice of airports, so I don't see how more than 1-2 daily flights can really be that profitable.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 18):
I think part of B6's problem is that they fly to places like LGB, BUR, ONT and OAK instead of LAX and SFO. The yields are at SFO and LAX - they are preferred for business travellers because they are generally closer to the business centers, plus they offer international connections.

Not really. Since the airports indirectly compete with each other, many airlines are already matching fares across the board. For example, when jetBlue has FLL-LGB fare sales, AA will often match those fares on MIA-LAX. Also, secondary airports are often just as convinent, if not more convienent, to business travelers, especially Burbank and San Jose.
a.
 
MajorNelson
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:43 am

Plus - - i just dont think the A320 is the plane for those long trans-cons either -- especially with all the fuel stops we hear about the B6 planes having to make - - that just adds to an already long flight.

I know that as much as i love B6 for Fla and shorter haul, I dont think I'd wanna fly them transcon for those reasons.
I turn Tops into Bottoms.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting MajorNelson (Reply 20):


i just dont think the A320 is the plane for those long trans-cons either -- especially with all the fuel stops we hear about the B6 planes having to make

BINGO...319's would have been the way to go. I can't imagine how much extra $$$ B6 spends on those fuel stops. And remember, nothing west of DEN or SLC was in the original game plan of B6. The A320's were ordered with a 2/3 transcon system out of JFK planned.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
bigdrewfl
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:38 am

We have only droped out of 2 cities so far..... ATL and SDQ. I think the problem here at Jetblue is that we are not charging enough money for what we offer! I mean we have one of the highest load factors of any airline if not the highest!!! so how can we loose so much? We are not charging what we should!

If someone had asked me a month ago about where I see myself a couple of years from now let's say 8-10 years from now I would have said at my current position here at Jetblue as Flight Attendant. However, you ask me now and I would say I that I truely dont know! And it bothers me because I think Jetblue is a great company we just need to take a big look at the people we are hiring now, specially Management! Because we can either make the company or break it!

Drew
 
ajiggity3
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:21 am

Does anyone know why JetBlue was not able to make it work out of ATL?
 
panam330
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
IAD: AA, AS (ending in June), B6, UA
DCA: AS

You forgot WN BWI-LAX, and UA BWI-SFO and LAX.

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 23):
Does anyone know why JetBlue was not able to make it work out of ATL?

Ever heard of Delta?

[Edited 2006-03-12 00:40:03]
 
ajiggity3
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:46 am

Yeah I live in ATL and fly them (Delta) all the time, and everyone I talk to is not thrilled with them, therefore that serves no explanation as to why JBLU did not work in ATL.
 
apodino
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:50 am

Since when does CO fly transcons out of BOS? The only places they fly to are IAH, CLE, and EWR?
 
jumbojet
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:07 am

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 25):
Yeah I live in ATL and fly them (Delta) all the time, and everyone I talk to is not thrilled with them, therefore that serves no explanation as to why JBLU did not work in ATL.

and I am sure all the people that live in Dallas are not thrilled with AA and all the people that live in Houston are not thrilled with Cont and so on and so on. and I am equally as sure that all the people that live in NYC aren't thrilled with JetBlue, in fact I would say Jetblue is the least favorite out of any of the Domestic carriers.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Bigdrewfl (Reply 22):
I think the problem here at Jetblue is that we are not charging enough money for what we offer!

That was 1 of my two points. You need not offer premium product (F/J), but you should at least charge more for last minute flying. Yet part of the model is that you want to make customers think of you when they need to fly last minute, since your walk up fares are generally cheaper, especially 1 way. Problem is, the majors do know this, that walk-up is where a lot of the profit is. All B6 is doing is taking away those sales from majors, which hurts them, but also doesn't really provide enough revenue on transcons to help B6 either. It's the same "market share" battle fought in a different way.

And all that did was cause other airlines to drop walk-up fares on B6 routes to match, and thus hurt every airline's bottom who did it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:28 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 27):
and I am equally as sure that all the people that live in NYC aren't thrilled with JetBlue, in fact I would say Jetblue is the least favorite out of any of the Domestic carriers.

You have to be kidding yourself with such a statement.
a.
 
jumbojet
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):
You have to be kidding yourself with such a statement.

Not at all, its my opinion. Its a leisure airline. I flew it once and was totally unimpresssed with them. I will never fly them again. Once the glamour of the new planes fades away, their popularity will diminish

[Edited 2006-03-12 01:41:18]
 
MAH4546
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 30):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 29):
You have to be kidding yourself with such a statement.

Not at all, its my opinion. Its a leisure airline. I flew it once and was totally unimpresssed with them. I will never fly them again. Once the glamour of the new planes fades away, their popularity will diminish

It is your opinion that you don't like them, which is fine. To say they are the least favourite of domestic carriers out of NYC is ludicrous. They haven't built up such a large customer base because people don't like them.

http://news.cheapflights.com/airlines/2005/10/jetblue_voted_t.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/jetblue.html

http://www.statesman.com/money/conte...stories/clark/0502/050317trav.html
a.
 
jumbojet
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:57 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
It is your opinion that you don't like them, which is fine. To say they are the least favourite of domestic carriers out of NYC is ludicrous. They haven't built up such a large customer base because people don't like them.

I dont think its ludicrous. Like I said, lets see how popular they are when the new planes image gets old. The airline doesnt bother me and I wish them success, just my opinion on them. Take it or leave it and you've left it, cool with me brother.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:28 am

No one likes the dominant player - it's just human nature. You may be loyal to them because they take care of you but we all don't want to see someone else control us. Having choice helps.

Thankfully, AA, CO, and DL are all serious contenders for the NYC passenger and B6 will find that their ability to draw passengers will get harder and harder. CO and DL have both been particularly rough in their competitive levels towards B6. AA has been rather passive a bit and probably needs to kick up the competitive juices in NYC a notch or two.

[Edited 2006-03-12 02:29:32]
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
No, they have not. They have historically been high-yield money makers.

Only in the premium cabins. With transcon round-trip coach fares routinely in the $200 range, Cattle Class isn't making squat.

If they were otherwise, UA, AA and DL wouldn't be cutting transcon economy capacity. When UA went to the PS service from the widebodies, they sacrificed a bunch of Y seats in favor of more high-yielding big-dollar Business/First seats. What's DL doing by folding Song back into mainline? Oh, that's right - slashing Y capacity so they can put F seats in.

B6 doesn't have those high-yielding, big-dollar Business/First cabins, and so has to chase the $200 return econ traffic.

[Edited 2006-03-12 02:30:24]
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 32):
I dont think its ludicrous.

Why should you? you dont have any facts to back it up  sarcastic 
Stand Up and Be Counted Visit Site Related to Voice your opinion
 
vega
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
No, they have not. They have historically been high-yield money makers. However, since jetBlue entered the trans-con market from FLL, IAD, BOS, and JFK, the four biggest trans-con markets, the yields have suffered

It's possible that Jet Blue just doesn't have the right mix of routes for available aircraft - that coupled with high fuel costs = low profits. Trans cons get at most 1 turn a day (unless they fly a 1.5 turn red eye). This would require for acceptable profitability, especially on an all coach aircraft, a very high revenue load factor/flight. ? is would it be better to use those aircraft on shorter 2+ turn routes and cut back significantly on trans cons. UA, as an example, does it on a slighly smaller, almost identical fuel burn rate aircraft (A319), but they have 8 F seats and a lot more aircraft in their fleet to make up for revenue shortfalls. I do not fly Jet Blue because of geography, but am an investor in the company.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:47 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 12):
Transcons have historically been low-yield money pits.

Uh....... You may want to tell United Airlines and American Airlines that about their JFK-LAX/SFO markets  wink  For some unknown reason they have this nifty thing called 3 class aircraft no  I often wonder why Ft. Lauderdale to LGA, and Orlando to Chicago dont get those planes  no But since LAX and SFO-JFK is such a loss of money and the airlines have cash to burn it would only make sense to use the 3 class aircraft to California, where there is no money to be made.  wink  I am sure that has something to do with those horrible yields in First and Business...  sarcastic 
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:00 am

Please see my reply above. My original post should have been more specifically written to refer to economy-class fares. Sure, F and C are great if you can get it, but B6 is conspicuously lacking anything resembling F or C cabins on their aircraft - so they get to fill their aircraft with the $200 economy transcon fare wars.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
pauara
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:02 am

I wonder how they are doing with their JFK-NAS service down here i believe it is a once daily flight but it always seems to be full.
Paul
 
ChiGB1973
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:04 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 11):
Oakland to Atlanta a few years back. I'm still ticked that they pulled out, lack of profitability, but apparently they just could not compete against both Delta and AirTran, very much to Atlanta's loss.

I think FL is a great airline. DL has always been really good to me too. Both offer biz class, therefore, if you do not pay for it, at least an opportunity to upgrade with miles. This is a huge selling point B6 is missing out on and a very valuable amenity.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 12):
Transcons have historically been low-yield money pits.

This is very true. From just about all markets. NYC and CHI specifically. 80% average load factors don't break even on these routes. These routes do require biz class (ie, UA Premium), DL, AA all having these advantages, upgrades, a valuable mileage program and frequency. Still, they are tough to make money on, but certainly required by the big boys because of international connections.

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 23):
Does anyone know why JetBlue was not able to make it work out of ATL?



Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 25):
therefore that serves no explanation as to why JBLU did not work in ATL

So just add FL in to the problem. B6 did not have a chance with 2 airlines going after B6 profits. FL had the money and airplanes to do it, DL, then had the resources to do it. As I said before, I would much prefer FL or DL because of the upgrade capability. Also, ATL-OAK, wtf, that was just not using common sense.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
They haven't built up such a large customer base because people don't like them

Hence the Florida market. Their customer base is huge in the vacation market and can make the short trip to FL and back several times a day. The equipment is well used, full and the people looking for the cheapest flights are on there. The west coast market is more of a business-person's route. They have to be there on certain days at certain times. There is rarely shopping around, they travel multiple times monthly and don't want to be bothered with the vacationers. They have the miles to upgrade and want the comfortable seat to rest, paperwork, read The WSJ and not have to worry about mom, pop and the 2 y/o kids going to Disney World.

On trans-cons, B6 has the wrong planes with the wrong configuration to attract the business people that are paying top dollar. Last minute fares are going to be necessary too. This gets those people to the west coast that I mentioned above that cannot get on their preferred carrier. Be as nice as you want, give them video and they are still not going to be return customers as long as UA, DL or AA (whichever is their regular carrier) have seats available.

M
 
kaputt
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 6):
I'm sorry. More frequency = profitability.

Uh, not always. Ever heard of Independence Air?
Carpe the Diem...Seize The Carp
 
md90fan
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:29 am

Quoting Pauara (Reply 39):
I wonder how they are doing with their JFK-NAS service down here i believe it is a once daily flight but it always seems to be full.
Paul

Hey bud!! Good to see another Bahamian on a.net  Smile Well im happy to say its going to 2 times daily

http://www.jetblue.com/learnmore/pressDetail.asp?newsId=296
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
767-332ER
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 11):
I don't know how many routes JetBlue has abandoned, but I do know that I really enjoyed them Oakland to Atlanta a few years back. I'm still ticked that they pulled out, lack of profitability, but apparently they just could not compete against both Delta and AirTran, very much to Atlanta's loss. I am sure that lesson has not been lost on their management team. They are a good airline, offering a good product at a good price, and up until very recently, making a profit at it. They aren't in business to lose money, as the big six seem to be, and I cannot believe that lesson is lost at the top.

So a small plea to JetBlue: extend, but don't overextend, keep raking in the bucks, and please, come back to Atlanta! We could really use you.

And its because people like you this airline industry is in such dire despair. B6's current troubles equate to this very simple theory (as B6 employees have also emphasized):

Extremely low fares=Loss of profit, no money making

The industry is hurting because everyone has overpriced themselves out of te game. You're statment about B6 "keep raking in the bucks" is impossible when passengers (such as yourself) want to keep getting these $99 fares that has hurt everyone.

ATL has enough coverage already to fly to anywhere in the world pretty much by using one connection at the most. What else would you benefit in having B6 come into ATL?

-You already have a wonderful international reach from ATL
-You have one of the major "low-cost" carriers based here
-You can fly to any city in the U.S.

If you're looking for lower fares than what you can already find here, then people like you are looking to run this industry straight into the ground. Even at the current fare structure found in flights out of ATL, the airlines are not making money...FACT!! Look at the condition of these carriers and it is as simple as there again, the statement that some of our fellow B6 employees are making..."fares must go up, airlines cannot make any money when the money that it costs to run the operation is much higher than the money they bring in."
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:46 am

The fact that B6 flies to secondary airports in California doesn't help. OAK and ONT are big areas but LAX and SFO are still the primary airports in California - and there is no shortage of capacity in those markets. B6 has no choice but to price at a discount in its transcon markets by not serving the "preferred" airports.

Don't worry. B6 won't be in ATL.... you notice they are thinking long and hard about serving DFW and CHI.
 
B752OS
Posts: 592
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:50 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
BOS: AA, AS, B6, CO, DL, UA

I don't believe CO operates any transcon flights out of BOS.

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 30):
Not at all, its my opinion. Its a leisure airline. I flew it once and was totally unimpresssed with them. I will never fly them again. Once the glamour of the new planes fades away, their popularity will diminish

So your single opinion is how the people of NYC, all 19 million of them, think?

Quoting 767-332ER (Reply 43):
ATL has enough coverage already to fly to anywhere in the world pretty much by using one connection at the most. What else would you benefit in having B6 come into ATL?

Yea and without feed, ATL would not even have half the flights they currently have. B6 tried and failed in ATL, they have nothing to gain by entering a market where DL operates over 80% of the flights into the airport.



I don't see whats so wrong with B6 for business flights. If B6 flew right into LAX or SFO, I would choose them everytime when I have to fly to California. There product in my opinion is much better than that of any legacy carrier, you get much more for your money.

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 32):
I dont think its ludicrous. Like I said, lets see how popular they are when the new planes image gets old. The airline doesnt bother me and I wish them success, just my opinion on them. Take it or leave it and you've left it, cool with me brother.

They will still offer features no other carrier offers, such as all leather seats, and each seat has a PTV with Direct TV. The only other carrier that can lay claim to similar service would be Song which is being rolled back into DL mainline. Besides, I have not heard a new plane ad in quite a while.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 1039
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RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:56 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 35):
Why should you? you dont have any facts to back it up

Your right I dont have any facts to back it up. JetBlue's conecpt is clear and simple. TV on demand with new planes and competitive fares. That's it. There is nothing else to JetBlue. Take away the new plane image, the low fares that Delta has now been able to match and you get a JetBlue that is vastly different then it was 6 years ago. Also, I've priced out Jetblue compared to Delta and unless you want a friggin midnight or later departure to get these low fares, Delta quite often beats their low fares. JetBlue couldnt even complete a coast to coast segment a few weeks back without having to stop for fuel because of unusually strong headwinds. How many passengers will think twice about flying JetBlue after a 10 hour "non stop" to the west coast.
 
jetblueatjfk
Posts: 1556
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:42 am

RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 27):
in fact I would say Jetblue is the least favorite out of any of the Domestic carriers.

Are you kidding. That is such an untrue statement it is actually funny. Even people who don't like B6 at all can certainly agree that they are not the least favorite of the country (just of them). They get great Customer Satisfaction reviews, but that is partly to the low fares where they really need to boost them up. It seems like they are kind of scared to boost up the fares much higher b/c they feel they will loose some, which they will lose some people but less then they think. They should just raise their minimum fare up $15 is most markets and stop having so many sales that have fares so low, but do what they did this past week and advertise lower fares on Tuesdays and Wednesdays which are not the most popular days, but still don't have such low fares, if they raise, they can get out of this mess and the legacies will probably after a little bit raise to since they realize that B6 is raising and they can still get it all, so why don't they get more money. Right now, B6 should really raise fares like $10-$15, it won't affect them that much at all and they can actually make money.

B6jfk airplane 
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 47):
Are you kidding. That is such an untrue statement it is actually funny. Even people who don't like B6 at all can certainly agree that they are not the least favorite of the country (just of them). They get great Customer Satisfaction reviews, but that is partly to the low fares where they really need to boost them up. It seems like they are kind of scared to boost up the fares much higher b/c they feel they will loose some, which they will lose some people but less then they think. They should just raise their minimum fare up $15 is most markets and stop having so many sales that have fares so low, but do what they did this past week and advertise lower fares on Tuesdays and Wednesdays which are not the most popular days, but still don't have such low fares, if they raise, they can get out of this mess and the legacies will probably after a little bit raise to since they realize that B6 is raising and they can still get it all, so why don't they get more money. Right now, B6 should really raise fares like $10-$15, it won't affect them that much at all and they can actually make money

Totally wrong. If B6 could raise fares that much and get away with it, they would have done it. They'd be lucky to get $5.

M
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2609
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

RE: Jetblue Unprofitable On 17 Of Last 20 New Routes

Sun Mar 12, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 47):
It seems like they are kind of scared to boost up the fares much higher b/c they feel they will loose some

The thing is...B6 sets the bottom for the fares in whatever given market they enter. They wouldn't lose any pax if they raised fares because there's no one to lose them to. The legacy carriers are only charging the same low fares as B6 is to compete with them, not because they want to. B6 could charge more for the routes, and the legacies would gladly match the higher fares as well, and the pax would simply be stuck with higher fares overall. If they still like B6, then they don't have a choice but to pay the higher prices. The only traffic they might lose are the pax that were only going to take the trip given the super-low fares, but then again, why would you want them anyway? It's not as if they were giving you much profit.

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