aircanada014
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Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:17 pm

Hello all


We've seen the changes to 787s shark fin tail. Is Boeing planning to keep the flightdeck windows and the nose the same in the picture or will they redesign the windows and nose?
 
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N328KF
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:28 pm

I think the design is far enough along that you won't see any changes in that respect.
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WingedMigrator
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:29 pm

I think he's talking about the old pointy nose with the weird triangular cockpit windows, back in the old days when the plane had the shark tail... those windows are gone too, and the nose is back to a more conventional arrangement. The average flying public won't tell it apart from a 767, at least from the outside.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:43 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 2):
I think he's talking about the old pointy nose with the weird triangular cockpit windows, back in the old days when the plane had the shark tail... those windows are gone too, and the nose is back to a more conventional arrangement. The average flying public won't tell it apart from a 767, at least from the outside.

I disagree. To me, it looks like a fat 757, with chevrons at the rear of the engines. The wings are extremely distinctive, as well.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:56 pm

The design has been 'frozen' so no more design changes, or does the design freeze only mean the inside?
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seanp11
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:02 pm

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20050825/450nose.jpg
this is what the nose section is going to look like. Not the same as a 767 or 777, but not quite like the old design.
 
nosedive
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:10 pm

Lets compare the newer renderings:




And the older renderings:




You tell me
 
Glom
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:09 pm

Yeah, looking at those old pictures, you can see why they changed it.
 
VAtlantic101
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:38 pm

The things that will stand out on the 787 are the wings i think, but does anyone know if they have kept the large windows?

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RichardPrice
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:06 pm

Its certainly lost most of its distinctiveness, I really liked the 'before' style, but the new style just looks plain and ordinary.

Ho hum, I guess financial wins over stylism even in aviation.
 
Mudboy
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:19 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 2):
The average flying public won't tell it apart from a 767, at least from the outside.

Does this mean the 787 will be roughly the same size as a 767, if so which version, 200,300, or 400? What will be the seating config 2-3-2, 2-4-2 ? Sorry, just don't know much about it. Also, is this what Boeing decided to do instead of the sonic cruiser?
 
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Crosswind
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:45 pm

This is the final 787 nose;



I actually really like it, more than a passing resemblance to the 757!

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
SNATH
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Wi

Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:58 pm

Quoting VAtlantic101 (Reply 8):
but does anyone know if they have kept the large windows?

Yes, they have!




Read this too:

http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices...ages/commercial/787/k63434-04.html

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 10):
What will be the seating config 2-3-2, 2-4-2 ?

Either 8- or 9- abreast. Boeing has been advertising it as a very comfortable 8-abreast plane and, in fact, Boeing's preferred config is 3-2-3 (the only reason I can think of for this so that they do not want to do what Airbus does; but we've done this debate to death in other threads). Look at the back for the config:



However, given that it's very spacious for an 8-abreast, a large percentage of the airlines who ordered it are actually going to put 9-abreast (I assume 3-3-3), which will be as "comfortable" as today's B747s. Incidentally, it appears that the possibility of 9-abreast on the B787 has been a big advantage of that plane over the A350 (in which 9-abreast will be too crammed; maybe only charters might do that in the A350).

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 10):
Also, is this what Boeing decided to do instead of the sonic cruiser?

Yes. Airlines prederred good economics over extra speed.

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 10):
Sorry, just don't know much about it.

No apologies necessary, as far as I'm concerned. Other people will rudely tell you to go and do searches. But one od the points of a.net, IMHO, is to find information.

Hope this helps,

Tony

[Edited 2006-03-12 13:59:27]
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vs773er
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:43 pm

Is Jerry Springer hosting his new show on the 787? (tope left of pic!)
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flight777
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:00 pm

Quoting VS773ER (Reply 13):
Is Jerry Springer hosting his new show on the 787? (tope left of pic!)

Funny  rotfl  He is wanting somemore people for his show!

I actually like the newer verison of the 787. Still looks like a Boeing but still distinctive!
 
Sinlock
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:22 pm

It's been covered in topics here a few times.

The reason that Boeing made the changes are. The new nose shape was to reduce cockpit wind-noise, and the old window layout was not well recived by pilots that got to view an early cockpit mockup.
 
mptpa
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:06 am

Wel, as far as cockpit windows go, they are distinctive. It is 4-panel arrangement as opposed to 6 in the older wide bodies. If someone is curious enough, they can count 4.

The windows seem to be fixed and are large (19" tall).

Finally I think they should keep 2-4-2 in which case no seat will be farther than 2 away from an aisle. 3-2-3 "seem" crowded due to the fact the window seater has to hop over two people to get out. It may also be quicker to plane and deplane not only during normal ops but in case of emergency evac.

Just my thought.
 
Glom
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 16):
Finally I think they should keep 2-4-2 in which case no seat will be farther than 2 away from an aisle. 3-2-3 "seem" crowded due to the fact the window seater has to hop over two people to get out. It may also be quicker to plane and deplane not only during normal ops but in case of emergency evac.

That's nothing to do with Boeing. The airlines will to put 3-3-3 in it regardless.
 
hmmmm...
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:25 am

They have to keep the 787 cockpit windows. How the hell are they going to keep the wind out without them? The amount of weight it would save to reduce them, would not be worth it in a cost/benefit analysis.

[Edited 2006-03-12 16:44:06]
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fraspotter
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:35 am

Does anyone know when they will begin work on the prototype 787 now that it seems that the final design has been agreed upon? It is still a few years away, but how many years?
"Drunk drivers run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
 
lhrmaccoll
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:53 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 3):
To me, it looks like a fat 757

Its slightly more sophisticated than that. I prefer the look of the 757, it looks superb
A
 
aircanada014
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:54 am

I know for sure AC will have the seats at 2x4x2.
 
pauara
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:58 am

I personally cant wait fot this plane to take to the skies and will be flying it regardless of the windows, nose, and tail design.
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 9):
Ho hum, I guess financial wins over stylism even in aviation.

of course, and why shouldn't it companies are aroudn to make money
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JayinKitsap
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 19):
Does anyone know when they will begin work on the prototype 787 now that it seems that the final design has been agreed upon? It is still a few years away, but how many years?

Recent reports are that Landing gear assembly is ongoing, body assembly begins in June, and rollout in 2007. First deliveries in early 2008, Boeing has committed a number of them to the Chinese airlines before the 08 Olympics.

I think the autoclaves for the wings and big fuse sections are about to be fired up!
 
rolfen
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:46 am

Those new cockpit windows look like those of the a380
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting VS773ER (Reply 13):
Is Jerry Springer hosting his new show on the 787?

Today's topic: My boyfriend cheated on me with a flight attendant... Lets bring out our first guest, ROB!!!

Now Rob, Tell us your story

"Well Jerry, I was on a flight to San Francisco, and I struck up a conversation with this really hot Flight Attendant, and she made me realize that my girlfriend does nothing for me, so before I knew it, we were in the lavatory making a little turbulence."

Hmmm, Pretty serious stuff.. Well, lets bring her out, AMBER!!!

LOL!!!
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RedDragon
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:09 am

Are the side cockpit windows definitely going to be fixed (ie. non-opening)? Will pilots miss the loss of direct-vision windows against the aircraft's predecessors?

Rich
 
MD-90
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:51 am

I think Emraer was on to something with their design of the nose of the 170/190 family. I don't really like it, but it seems that Boeing has come to the same conclusion. I guess it's more efficient. Not exactly the same, but kind of similiar. The top slopes down more than the bottom slopes up.




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weetodded01
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:03 am

Did anyone ever notice the computer generated images of the 787's interior that boeing had on its website for a while? It looked like the forward-most windows were placed at varying heights to match the flowing paint scheme on the exterior. Anyone? I just checked after reading this thread and they are no longer there.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:16 am

I miss the old tail, even if it was heavier. The larger windows will make this aircraft popular with pax. It's very airy, and has a nice interior layout. Just a supreme aircraft in my opinion. The resemblance to the 757 is there .... from the wings forward, from the wings back it looks more 777 to me.
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wingscrubber
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:49 am

FRA Spotter, I know boeing have been prototyping the filament winding process to make the composite fuselage sections, I had a picture of it somewhere but can't seem to find it; it was in the RAeS Aerospace International magasine last year. Designing, building and testing an aircraft is a lengthy process, I reckon 2008/10 before a 787 flies.
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monteycarlos
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:40 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 3):
I disagree. To me, it looks like a fat 757, with chevrons at the rear of the engines. The wings are extremely distinctive, as well.

But you are not a member of the general public... obviously with an aviation knowledge you will be able to pick the difference. In my experience most people can't pick the difference between a 777 and a 767, so the 787 and 767 will be just as hard for them.
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Skydrol
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:58 pm

Quoting VS773ER (Reply 13):
Is Jerry Springer hosting his new show on the 787? (tope left of pic!)

Yeah, and when the pax start smashing the seats, the air marshalls will restrain them.  Smile


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glacote
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 12):
Yes, they have!

Would you have any update on this issue (e.g. clos-up of actual fuselage section) apart from mock-up photos as old as the now-vanished shark tail?

No pun - really interested in this issue.
 
Glareskin
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:06 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 28):
I think Emraer was on to something with their design of the nose of the 170/190 family. I don't really like it, but it seems that Boeing has come to the same conclusion. I guess it's more efficient. Not exactly the same, but kind of similiar. The top slopes down more than the bottom slopes up.

 checkmark  Good observation! And yes: Embraer was on to something with the new families. Let's hope the 787 will be as good in it's own class!
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Johnny
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:52 pm

Oh lord....

What a ugly and boring design..! Where are the Boeing engineers which designed the fantastic look of the B777? Are they all retired..?

It is really a bad mix of the the B767,757 and Embraer 170/190...

Johnny Sad
 
787engineer
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:37 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 36):
Oh lord....

What a ugly and boring design..! Where are the Boeing engineers which designed the fantastic look of the B777? Are they all retired..?

It is really a bad mix of the the B767,757 and Embraer 170/190...

Johnny Sad

The average passenger rarely knows or cares what they're flying on. Most people don't even bother to look at the airplane they're about to board, so unless there's a really radical design (concorde, 747 and A380 to a certain extent during its first few years of service) no one will care what the plane looks like. What they do care is the comfort and overall experience inside the airplane. That's what the larger windows, higher humidity, lighting, etc come in. The cockpit windows were revised when the new ones didn't go over so well with the pilots. Pilots feel more comfortable with the traditional cockpit window layout so that's what boeing went with.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 36):
What a ugly and boring design..! Where are the Boeing engineers which designed the fantastic look of the B777? Are they all retired..?



Quoting 787engineer (Reply 37):
The average passenger rarely knows or cares what they're flying on. Most people don't even bother to look at the airplane they're about to board, so unless there's a really radical design (concorde, 747 and A380 to a certain extent during its first few years of service) no one will care what the plane looks like.

787engineer's comment is right on the money. Boeing has rightly focused on the areas that passengers will notice and remember the most. They'll notice that they can see out of better windows, that the lighting is better, and that they can breathe more easily. Some passengers will note this, and in those cases, it will become one of the factors affecting their decision of whom to fly.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
seanp11
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RE: Is Boeing Planning To Keep The 787s Cockpit Window

Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 36):
What a ugly and boring design..! Where are the Boeing engineers which designed the fantastic look of the B777? Are they all retired..?

The B777 has the same section 41 as the B767.....

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