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zeke
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Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:16 pm

Apparently to be announced later today, Ozjet to cease operations at midnight tonight.

Another shorted lived airline.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
bearcuban12
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:26 pm

Zeke - where did you get your info from?
 
nzrich
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:00 pm

Interesting considering OZjet have just introduced a new route and their loadings are now about 50% which is a big increase.. It doesnt sound like the news of a airline going under !!!
"Pride of the pacific"
 
flykal
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:15 pm

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
Apparently to be announced later today, Ozjet to cease operations at midnight tonight.

Another shorted lived airline.

Without any credible information or evidence, this will more than likely be a short lived post!
One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time
 
777ER
Crew
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:24 pm

Can't make claims like that without a source revealed.
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Jetset25j
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:31 pm

It wouldnt suprise, on there website's online booking tool all flights I can find seem to be "sold" until the end of the year...
Air New Zealand-Airline of the world's greatest travellers.
 
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BNE
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:08 pm

Looks like its true.

http://finance.news.com.au/story/0,10166,18439291-31037,00.html

BUSINESS class airline OzJet, Australia's newest domestic passenger carrier, has suspended its scheduled flights between Melbourne and Sydney.

OzJet chairman Paul Stoddart said in a statement tonight the decision to immediately stop flying scheduled services was made with great regret.
"Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, we have not had the support we needed to operate in that environment against big, established carriers," Mr Stoddart said.

Never got a chance to fly with them.  Sad
Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
CKT789
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:10 pm

Per the article, they are still going to operate charter operations.

Jamie.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:22 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/...ghts/2006/03/12/1142098345455.html

Just to re-confirm. Looks as if Stoddard's track record is 100%. I'll give them 3 months in the charter business until they disappear completely!
Fly fast, live slow
 
antares
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:31 pm

Among the many golden rules of business is the one that forbids concocting a business plan based on a pile of fictitious assumptions that justify what you wanted it to say.

OzJet invented a class of business travellers that would put up with limited frequency for space, and had the ability to choose their own carrier.

Such people do exist, but not in the numbers that mattered.

Nothing was going to get them out of their Qantas Club rooms or Blue Rooms or frequent flyer schemes.

Most of the people OzJet needed were 'owned' by corporate accounts.

It will be interesting to see where he expects to get viable charter volume from, and whether it will support the serious regulatory requirements of adhering to the required investment in training and checking, or even minimum flying hours.

The most obvious source of charters in from the resource sector, and to say that is stitched up by the likes of National Jet, Alliance, Skywest and REX is an understatement.

Nor are there all that many resource sector strips that are especially 737-200 friendly.

The guy has a bunch of ancient fuel guzzling high cycle jets that are increasingly demanding of maintenance dollars and fiendishly uneconomic at USD 60-70 a barrel and with low utilisation.

After this cop out he also has zero credibility in the Oz market.

Antares
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:45 pm

Poor OzJet, that was it for them ! I guess they burned off a lot of money. As long as they dont go bancruptcy and can refund all the monies their and their funders image will not loose too much. If they going on charters, I doubt that they have a real advantage with this kind of seating. Let see !!
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johnnybgoode
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:50 pm

honestly, did anyone seriously believe they would be able to pull this off? flying against VirginBlue, Jetstar and Qantas, with a fleet of 732s in a low-density seating?

rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:53 pm

No !!! They would be still flying, if they would go on low-cost concept with full planes, simply because Jetstar is not flying to Melbourne main airport and Virgin Blue isnt that cheap anymore.
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kiwiinoz
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:55 pm

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 11):
honestly, did anyone seriously believe they would be able to pull this off? flying against VirginBlue, Jetstar and Qantas, with a fleet of 732s in a low-density seating?

I agree, I could never understand the thinking behind this. The competitive environment was not ideal, the promotional strategy was bizarre, the distribution structure was non-existent....I thought they would hang on a bit longer than this but always believed this would be the outcome.
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:57 pm

Oh well, I did give them six months, and they're now gone in four. Hardly surprising really.

Charter operation could be interesting, as mentioned lots of times on this board, there's plenty of leisure destinations that could well prosper with some sort of premium airline servicing.

Now how much did this venture cost Stoddy? Surely a fair chunk of those Red Bull millions? I find it rather funny that Red Bull is supposed to give you wings but they certainly didn't give Stoddy the "wings" with Ozjet ...

Quoting Johnnybgoode (Reply 11):
honestly, did anyone seriously believe they would be able to pull this off? flying against VirginBlue, Jetstar and Qantas, with a fleet of 732s in a low-density seating?

Their problem wasn't the 732s, it was the whole business case. No way could they ever get into the corporate market against QF and DJ.
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
fuffla
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:05 pm

New Focus On Charter Flights as Ozjet Suspends Scheduled Services

12 March 2006

OzJet Airlines will concentrate on charter flights after deciding to suspend its scheduled flights between Melbourne and Sydney.

OzJet chairman Mr Paul Stoddart said that it was with very great regret that the decision had been made to stop flying scheduled services immediately.

"Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, we have not had the support we needed to operate in that environment against big, established carriers," Mr Stoddart said.

"It's very, very disappointing, particularly, I'm sure, for those people who had started travelling regularly with us between Melbourne and Sydney and many of our very diligent and loyal employees.

"Sad to say, there have not been enough of those regular customers.

"We will now concentrate, with a reduced workforce, on charter operations.

"No paying passenger booked on OzJet will be unduly disadvantaged - they can either receive a refund from OzJet or transfer without any additional cost to Qantas, which has kindly offered to assist in transporting people who have booked and paid for tickets with OzJet. (see fuller statement below re Refunds/Transfers to Qantas)

"The OzJet call centre will remain open on telephone 1300 737 000 for the time being to assist people booked with us.

"We have given it a go in a very tough area of the Australian aviation industry and, as much as we would have hoped, it has become clear that we were not going to achieve in the immediate future the kind of revenues that were needed to keep OzJet in the air as the airline was envisaged.

"Charter operations may well be more rewarding.

"As a charter operation, OzJet will inevitably downsize, but any staff not retained will be paid their full entitlements.

"The scheduled services experience has been very costly to me personally, but my thoughts are more for those who have worked so tirelessly only to find that, as hard as we have tried, ultimately scheduled services were not successful."

OzJet will retain its Air Operator's Certificate, a minimum of two Boeing 737 aircraft for charter work and about 30 per cent of its staff.

"OzJet will focus its future flying around ad hoc and VIP charters, something there is clearly a demand for in Australia as little, if any, competition exists in that market," Mr Stoddart said.

Refunds / Transfers To Qantas

Passengers who have already travelled one leg of a journey with OzJet and have a return leg booked to fly with OzJet before March 24 can transfer to Qantas free of charge by telephoning Qantas on 13 13 13 by March 17.

Other people booked with OzJet but yet to fly will be automatically refunded.

Anyone booked to fly with OzJet who has not yet begun their journey can call Qantas on 13 13 13 by March 17, quote their OzJet booking reference, and Qantas will book them an economy class ticket at the same price.

The OzJet call centre will remain open on telephone 1300 737 000 for the time being to assist people who have OzJet bookings.

www.ozjet.com.au

NOW OZJET CHARTERS
 
nzrich
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:07 pm

Well its interesting for sure .. I was surprised they went in as a full on business class airline when Qantas pretty much has the business class market signed up in its camp!!!! As for Virgin Blue being low cost well lets be honest the only true low cost carrier in Australia is Jetstar..Personally when i have had to book any domestic seats Virgin have never really been much cheaper than Qantas and for a little extra you get fed and entertained for free .. I think OZjet with newer aircraft could of given all 3 airlines a better run for it money as a low cost airline ,especially if it could of gotten some of the feeder work for Air NZ's flights...
"Pride of the pacific"
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:41 pm

I'm absolutely shocked! I did not see this coming at all!!




/sarcasm.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
jmc757
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 8):
Just to re-confirm. Looks as if Stoddard's track record is 100%. I'll give them 3 months in the charter business until they disappear completely!

Agree, Stoddard striked again. Feel sorry for his staff, knowing how he treated the staff at EAF.

While were on the subject of Stoddard's airlines, does anyone know whats going on at European Aircharter? Last I heard is aother round of redundancies, closing their BHX and MAN bases and will operate solely from BOH, presumeably the Palmair flights?
 
jsqvl1
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:23 pm

Well...first, The Minardi F1 Team....and now the airline.... poor sight!!
"SAM hace amigos volando", o al menos solía hacerlos...
 
don81603
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Sun Mar 12, 2006 11:23 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 19):
Now, how long before Simplicity posts "I told you so!".

I'm betting within 10 minutes of his reading this thread.
 box 
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HS748
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting BNE (Reply 6):
OzJet chairman Paul Stoddart said in a statement tonight the decision to immediately stop flying scheduled services was made with great regret.
"Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, we have not had the support we needed to operate in that environment against big, established carriers," Mr Stoddart said.



Quoting Flykal (Reply 3):
Without any credible information or evidence, this will more than likely be a short lived post!

So looks like you owe him an apology - clearly he was spot on.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 4):
Can't make claims like that without a source revealed.

And you do too!
 
cyclonic
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:15 am

The majority of you have just lost a TON of respect points with me, for some of your childish and downright rude comments. Nice way to kick a new airline!

No matter what the outcomes or business plan, some of you need to learn to choose your words more carefully. Your "I told you so" attitude STINKS!

He had a go at the market and it failed. Better him to get out now than years time ahead, (like most US airlines who get away with bankruptcy murder) costing more time, money and jobs.

Kudos to the bloke for pulling the pin early, when it looked like it wasn't gonna work.

Some of you really need to get a grip and pull your heads out of your arses - lounge chair GM's!
Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...
 
trekster
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:51 am

wow, was jsut reading about there new perth route in Airliner World

Wow, oh well. Was weird to use 732's fora business airline. But oh well
Where does the time go???
 
antares
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:12 am

The comments that Virgin Blue has become as expensive as Qantas don't fit with reality, but then neither did all the gushing over OzJets ability to survive with crappy old jets and the stampede of disaffected Qantas customers that were going to make it a success.

A quick look at the web fares for Melbourne to Sydney tomorrow show that Qantas is available for between $115 and $385, Virgin Blue for $105 to $265 and Jetstar from Avalon has only four flights of which $79 fares are available on two afternoon or evening departures and the highest fare on all is $199.

Virgin Blue has recently reported higher load factors than Qantas on the route and is certainly making more money from it that its top heavy established competitor. If we turn to the half yearly financials to December 31 you will see that Qantas is trying to blur the contributions made by the various domestic and international operations but that the actual claimed profits attributable to Jetstar are still derisory, especially if you attempt to work out how much by way of assets and other support was transferred into the operation.

Far from struggling against the giant, Virgin Blue is making its critics look like complete asses. It seems to have exactly the right product, and has for a long time claimed in its guidance to analysts (not that too many of them listened) to have over 40 per cent of the market on the prime inter-city 'golden triangle' routes.

Oz Jet had as much impact on the competing airlines as a bush fly on the windscreen of a speeding truck.

I notice that Stoddart in today Age newspaper says the failure of the $40 million investment cannot be blamed on the other carriers, nor the airports.

Good one Paul. I like honesty. But would love to hear you explain what you say is an eight figure loss to your hapless deluded business partners, and also how much of the $40 million is left.

Also, why did you waffle on about lifting the fleet to 10 jets in interviews in the new year, when you are now cutting it back to two? You have some serious explaining to do mate.

Antares
 
Morvious
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:26 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 22):
So looks like you owe him an apology - clearly he was spot on.



Quoting HS748 (Reply 22):
And you do too!

The problem these days is that people don't trust eachother on words.
People think they look smart if they ask for a source!

---Back on topic---

We all saw this comming, there was just no room for it between Qantas and Virgin Blue.

In my oppinion
He should have tried the long haul bizzjet thing, like Private Air does with Swiss, LH and KLM. Those routes seems to be working well.
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting Cyclonic (Reply 23):
The majority of you have just lost a TON of respect points with me, for some of your childish and downright rude comments. Nice way to kick a new airline!

Now THAT'S concerning, given that the main reason that most of us are here is to build up our respect points!!!

Quoting Cyclonic (Reply 23):
He had a go at the market and it failed. Better him to get out now than years time ahead, (like most US airlines who get away with bankruptcy murder) costing more time, money and jobs.

THere is no way that we should sit back and applaud what this guy did. Coming into the Australian aviation market with a poor business plan, and poor execution, subsequently letting down his employees and partners. We absolutely have the right to analyse what was going wrong, and what eventuated. It's no problem to, "have a go at the market" like an ego-inflated cowboy, as long as you don't take anyone down with you.

Quoting Cyclonic (Reply 23):
Some of you really need to get a grip and pull your heads out of your arses - lounge chair GM's!

You'll notice from my profile that I am a GM, and not just in my armchair. Although not in the airline industry, it is in a related industry that deals with such concepts of yield, occupancy, service etc. We also have similar networks for marketing and distribution, so I feel that I am qualified to make comment. Don't forget also that there are plenty of industry insiders in this forum.

If society as a whole defended poorly run companies, in the same way as you have just done, then we would all live in a very mediocre environment, poorly serviced and unable to compete globally. Thank god for us armchair GM's that can actually critically demand a higher degree of excellence and get a few things done!

[Edited 2006-03-12 22:24:53]

[Edited 2006-03-12 22:27:19]
 
B787
Posts: 149
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:38 am

Sorry, Ozjet who?  Confused

One of the biggest flaws was their marketing. They had a defined target customer and should have been able to market straight to them. Their branding was non-existent and marketing poor. All I saw was a ameturish produced add on TV (once), and a DL flyer at my companies corporate travel agent (under a pile of other material).

If your target market don't have you at the front of their minds, when they need your service, then no company will survive.

It's never nice when an airline cease operations. I hope all the employees find work else where quickly.
 
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zeke
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:56 am

Maybe some good news for the crews, apparently Jetstar will be advertising for 150 pilots this week in Flight International.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:22 am

Simplicity;
Where are you?
On previous posts you where one of the ones that raved on about the "tactics" that Ozjet used to gain market share !
WHAT MARKET SHARE???

On a separate note, the ones that do end up paying are the staff!!
Good luck to all of them!
 
diesel1
Posts: 1482
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:23 am

Is there an opportunity for charter flights in Australia for OzJet, or is this just clutching at straws?

Also, wonder whether the OzJet situation will affect EAAC?
I don't like signatures...
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting Delta777Jet (Reply 12):
No !!! They would be still flying, if they would go on low-cost concept with full planes, simply because Jetstar is not flying to Melbourne main airport and Virgin Blue isnt that cheap anymore.

Perhaps QF have been working overtime throwing QF ff points around & giving away QF club memberships if corporate accounts singed up for a certain period?

We were surprised when originally told due to start date (at beginning of Australian school holidays of up to 9 weeks, with business traffic dropping off) they would have 2 class operations & then they decided to stick to one.

Apparently, they looked at using some convertor seats, so they could have a floating division between business & economy, but that didn't happen obviously, even though apparently there are hundreds of ex AN convertor seats sitting in containers somewhere in MEL.

This would have also given them a lot more flexibility, selling low cost seats down the back & full service seats up the front.

Will someone like SQ pick up the pieces? The AOC has to have some value.

Surely the charter only idea is to just keep the operation going while trying to find a buyer for the AOC ?
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
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RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:31 am

Ozjet did something similar to what DH did in terms of launching way to quickly and without any PR. The LF rose as some became aware of this airline's product and services, but as with DH, it was too late.
 
antares
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:51 am

Simpilicity,

An AOC for the heap of rubbish that is a 737-200 in the world of hi tech efficiency and USD 70 per barrell oil isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

SQ is the last carrier that would even think of Oz Jet. They have already gouged dirt cheap pro-rata fares out of QF when they conned them into thinking they might actually step in after Ansett and do their own Australian domestic carrier.

The enormity of this situation is that nobody could tell Stoddart anything, and he has on his own admission burned at least $10 million of the $40 million he raised.

Whatever the final figure, this is a huge amount of money to loose sticking to a foolish business plan, and proof that his investors must have had rocks in their heads to even think of signing up.

This is the end of one of the dumbest things I've seen done in the sector in Australia.

Antares
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting Antares (Reply 34):
An AOC for the heap of rubbish that is a 737-200 in the world of hi tech efficiency and USD 70 per barrell oil isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

I gather a AOC for 732's could very easily be changed to other 737 variants.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 9850
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:00 am

Quoting Antares (Reply 34):
The enormity of this situation is that nobody could tell Stoddart anything, and he has on his own admission burned at least $10 million of the $40 million he raised.

Said person is alledged to be in the transport business, "taking people for a ride". EAAC should have been an MCG sized red flag.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
Halophila
Posts: 455
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:01 am

I see a trend here... first, OzJet was advertised on the Minardi F1 cars - which was sold to Red Bull before the airline took to the air. Now the airline, and F1 team is gone. Better watch out, anyone who advertised in their inflight magazine...

Off topic, but did anyone catch the Gulf Air demo at the Bahrain GP? Amazing stuff!

Halophila
Flown on 707, 717, 727, 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87
 
nzrich
Posts: 1095
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:51 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting Antares (Reply 25):
The comments that Virgin Blue has become as expensive as Qantas don't fit with reality, but then neither did all the gushing over OzJets ability to survive with crappy old jets and the stampede of disaffected Qantas customers that were going to make it a success.

A quick look at the web fares for Melbourne to Sydney tomorrow show that Qantas is available for between $115 and $385, Virgin Blue for $105 to $265 and Jetstar from Avalon has only four flights of which $79 fares are available on two afternoon or evening departures and the highest fare on all is $199.

Hey good to hear DJ are doing well ..But lets be honest with the prices you have quoted me i would either pay the $79 and fly JQ from Avalon or pay a bit extra from MEL and go QF by the time i have paid for food tea/coffee preassigned seating for blue zone on DJ thats the $10 saving gone all of which are provided on QF for free !!!!!

[Edited 2006-03-13 00:13:20]
"Pride of the pacific"
 
antares
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:14 am

Simpilicity,

I don't know anything about the transferrability or variability of AOCs, but what I do know is that the value of an Australian domestic AOC for anyone trying to launching a new challenge to QF and DJ is $0.00.

Antares
 
antares
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:24 am

Nzrich,

Tip. Don't eat the food on QF, or DJ unless you are really, truly desperate.

If you study the applicability or practicabilility of the fares posted versus the time of day that most frequent flyers actually fly, a saving of $120 to fly in the suit zone on Virgin Blue with more legroom than most Qantas economy jets these days explains why those who can are moving to DJ.

Observation. JQ is not getting enough repeat business travellers. On routes like Melbourne Hobart where almost the entire offering is either JQ or DJ there must be a reason why DJ is flying at much higher fares and fuller loads than JQ.

JQ was of course not supposed to compete with QF but only DJ. The strategy isn't working nearly as well now as it did in its first year, and will inevitably see JQ make changes as to the way it processes and treats passengers, and increase the space between the seats, so that it offers a real alternative to DJ for regular flyers larger in size than jockeys.

Antares
 
nzrich
Posts: 1095
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:51 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:49 am

Quoting Antares (Reply 40):
Nzrich,

Tip. Don't eat the food on QF, or DJ unless you are really, truly desperate.

If you study the applicability or practicabilility of the fares posted versus the time of day that most frequent flyers actually fly, a saving of $120 to fly in the suit zone on Virgin Blue with more legroom than most Qantas economy jets these days explains why those who can are moving to DJ.

Observation. JQ is not getting enough repeat business travellers. On routes like Melbourne Hobart where almost the entire offering is either JQ or DJ there must be a reason why DJ is flying at much higher fares and fuller loads than JQ.

JQ was of course not supposed to compete with QF but only DJ. The strategy isn't working nearly as well now as it did in its first year, and will inevitably see JQ make changes as to the way it processes and treats passengers, and increase the space between the seats, so that it offers a real alternative to DJ for regular flyers larger in size than jockeys.

Antares

Totally understand the peak flights with DJ being cheaper..But im not a business traveller so i go on value for money and only once in my experience of booking flights within Australia usually BNE-MEL or SYD-BNE or vv have DJ been the cheapest ... I always ask for the exit row on QF so get more space for free ..Unlike DJ where it costs ..

As for service i do prefer QF then DJ but then again i prefer the polished professionalism of QF ...

As for what airline i will take in the future it all comes down to $$$$ but if there is not much in it i will choose QF hands down otherwise it seems now JQ seem to be the leader on price in Australia ...
"Pride of the pacific"
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting Antares (Reply 39):
I don't know anything about the transferrability or variability of AOCs, but what I do know is that the value of an Australian domestic AOC for anyone trying to launching a new challenge to QF and DJ is $0.00.

Antares

Of course an Australian AOC has value. If cost OzJet a lot of time & money, some of which can be regained.

There are plenty of opportunities around.

Perhaps any future buyer would not take on QF on SYD/MEL business class only.
 
pilotdude09
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:58 am

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 32):
Surely the charter only idea is to just keep the operation going while trying to find a buyer for the AOC ?

How much would this cost someone to buy? with a few people wanting to start airlines around aussie they could be interested, not that it will happen
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
antares
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:42 am

I just made a quick call to someone who would know about AOCs and the news is all bad.

AOCs don't exist on a shelf with a price tag. They require continuity of undertakings in relation to the structure of the management and operations of a carrier, and the maintenance of such positions as chief pilot, head of training and so forth.

The sharp downsizing being carried out at Oz Jet would require very serious scrutiny and re-approval by CASA. It wouldn't be worth it. The airline will have to work very hard like any other carrier to maintain the integrity of its existing AOC as a charter operator, and if in fact there is little or nil activity as such, the AOC really is a joke, not to mention the utility of the equipment concerned.

I've been thinking a bit more about what Stoddart says in today's interviews. If he's lost at least $10 million out of $40 million, the most likely scenario is that the people who had been paying up what they pledged subject to the usual (one assumes) conditions as to performance have snapped their wallets tightly shut.

It is not as though there will be much money left in the OzJet kitty, because it would have never have had $40 million sitting around waiting to be 'used.'

Could it be that Stoddart' real wake up call wasn't so much poor figures, but backers who decided not to continue with their funding because they had escape clauses.

Only Stoddart can detail the real situation. He has a lot of explaining to do, starting off with the quality of the so-called business plan, which made a series of grotesque, fundamental miscalculations as to who its customers were and whether there was ever going to be enough of them to matter.

Its not a matter of hand wringing about lost jobs Paul. Tell us candidly how you screwed it up, because your people deserve more than 'Sorry.'

Antares
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:14 am

Quoting Antares (Reply 43):
The sharp downsizing being carried out at Oz Jet would require very serious scrutiny and re-approval by CASA.

R u ex AN staff because u seem to have an axe to grind.

Anyway, they won't be asking CASA anything, as CASA r not there for safety reason, but just to justify their own employment (otherwise UK AOC would & should have been recognized automatically)

Obviously, they keep all important positions like chief pilot.
 
antares
Posts: 1367
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:52 am

Simpilicity,

If Ansett was flying today I'd be five years older than the airline. But I never flew on it until it became Ansett ANA although I flew with Butler Air transport before then, which was later taken over by RM and turned into the basis for Airlines of NSW.

I despised the disgraceful mismanagement of Ansett in the era of deregulation.

An airline born out of a challenge against the established order, none other than the Victoria Railways monopoly, became a gutted, lazy, self indulgent, inefficient, dependant, visionless travesty of a business.

Sure I enjoyed flying with them, up until about 1997, when you could see the rot setting in under indifferent ownership, but its passing was an inevitability once the walls of the sheltered workshop were knocked down by the emergence of Qantas under Dixon and the stresses of Impulse and Virgin Blue.

Antares
 
monteycarlos
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:04 pm

Well $10mil in the hole and an AOC that is worthless... Ozjet did get themselves into quite a predicament in a very short amount of time.

I think we all knew it was coming.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
monteycarlos
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 47):
We're all experts in retrospect. I can predict this Sat nights winning lotto numbers ... just look back here Sun morning !!!

Rather than I told u so, why don't u just give contructive criticism.

Ok here is something constructive for you. Instead of preaching your knowledge of deluded theory to a.net members why don't you get out there and learn a thing or two about why this was as predictable as everyone is saying it was. Don't sit on your high chair and believe everything you say is the truth, because everything you say is just your opinion.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
cyclonic
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:18 am

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:23 pm

Wow, is it me, or do most of you have it in for deal old Paul Stoddart?

You know what? I'll applaud the guy for having a go at the market and trying to get something working. It failed. He's going to have to pay for it and explain it to his backers as well as employees. He going to be the one who'll be writing redundancy cheques, selling assets and the like to pay off creditors. Its his money and his arse on the line.

For those of you who've actually come up with calculated, carefully worded and factual replies - kudos to you.

Finally, I can take public flaming but sending PM flames is beyond a joke. Really mature guys. Classy.
Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...
 
cyclonic
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:18 am

RE: Ozjet To Cease Operations

Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting Monteycarlos (Reply 48):
Don't sit on your high chair and believe everything you say is the truth, because everything you say is just your opinion.

Isn't that the A.net way though? Don't most of us get into that bad habit?
Something to ponder.....
Keith Richards: The man that Death forgot...