PIA747
Topic Author
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:46 am

Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:31 am

Are pilots over the age of 60 and flying for airlines with the cut off age at 65 such as Air India allowed to fly into US airports?
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4292
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:57 am

Of course they are! Provided: 1) the aircraft is registered in a country and the airline is certified by a country in which this is permitted AND the aircraft is engaged in normal International Civil Aviation (ICA).

The only question mark is does ICAO have an age limit for pilots? I don't belive so, but cant remember. If they do then any ICAO could ban pilots older than the rule and most would, but I dont think it has ever become an issue.


Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
Poitin
Posts: 2651
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:32 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 1):
Of course they are! Provided: 1) the aircraft is registered in a country and the airline is certified by a country in which this is permitted AND the aircraft is engaged in normal International Civil Aviation (ICA).

I suspect that the pilot must also to be licensed by an agency that permits an ATP to fly to age 62 or 65. In the USA, the FFA sets it to 60. I have no idea what the JAA does in Europe.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4292
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:57 pm

Quoting Poitin (Reply 2):
I suspect that the pilot must also to be licensed by an agency that permits an ATP to fly to age 62 or 65. In the USA, the FFA sets it to 60.

Of course, but the pilot has to be licience by the country of registration of the aircraft, so that is covered in the first condition.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:33 pm

Quoting Poitin (Reply 2):
In the USA, the FFA sets it to 60.

Doesn't this rule apply only to pilots of passenger aircraft. I recall that 60+ was OK on freighters and/or for co-pilots.
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 1):
Of course they are! Provided: 1) the aircraft is registered in a country and the airline is certified by a country in which this is permitted AND the aircraft is engaged in normal International Civil Aviation (ICA).



Quoting Gemuser (Reply 3):
Of course, but the pilot has to be licience by the country of registration of the aircraft, so that is covered in the first condition.

Not quite "Of course!".

The rules of the country you are flying in must be followed, if they are more stringent than ICAO standards, and age 60 is more stringent.

The only reason foreign pilots can fly in the USA past age 60 is because those airlines are given a waiver - it has nothing to do with the registration of the aircraft or their license.

I believe even with the waiver, one pilot, not the PIC, must be 60 or younger.

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2378
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting PIA747 (Thread starter):
Are pilots over the age of 60 and flying for airlines with the cut off age at 65 such as Air India allowed to fly into US airports?

I thought the retirement age for pilots in AI was 58, with possibility of extension to 60 if required by the airline....has that changed?  Confused
 
PIA747
Topic Author
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:46 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:47 am

Yes it has, Indian Civil Aviation authority due to the shortage of pilots in the local market has upped the age from 62 to 65. Many senior B747-400 Captains in AI have been recalled, saving the airline from hiring expensive expats.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4292
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 5):
The rules of the country you are flying in must be followed, if they are more stringent than ICAO standards, and age 60 is more stringent.

The only reason foreign pilots can fly in the USA past age 60 is because those airlines are given a waiver - it has nothing to do with the registration of the aircraft or their license.

WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! For aircraft engaged in "International Civil Aviation" (ICA) which normal airline services definate qualify as. It was agreed by all nations who signed the Chicargo Convention (1944) and joined ICAO that local rules for certification issues, which is what we are talking about, did NOT apply to aircraft of other nationality engaged in International Civil Aviation, but rather that they would operate under the rules of the country of registration of the aircraft.

If you think about it ICA would be just about impossiable without the convention. One example, among many, many hundereds. If what you say "rules of the country you are flying in must be followed" UA could NEVER operate services to Australia, because they only have one flight attendent for every 50 pax. Australian rules require one flight attendent for every 36 pax. Because of the convention we allow UA to operate in Oz airspace under US rules (50:1) and the US allows QF to operate in US airspace under Australain rules (36:1).

The same thing applies to the topic of this thread. Indian rules apply to the operations of Indian airliners/airlines in US air space AND in return US rules apply to US airlines operations in Indian air space.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 5):
I believe even with the waiver, one pilot, not the PIC, must be 60 or younger.

Oops, wrong way round of course. One pilot, not PIC, can be over 60 as long as other pilot is 60 or younger.

...and I guess a country cannot make the regulations less restrictive to foreign pilots flying in their (the foreign country's) airspace. Unfortunately, the FAA made it more restrictive for their own pilots!


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
PIA747
Topic Author
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:46 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:19 am

Yes it has, Indian Civil Aviation authority due to the shortage of pilots in the local market has upped the age from 62 to 65. Many senior B747-400 Captains in AI have been recalled, saving the airline from hiring expensive expats.
 
jrosa
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:06 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:14 pm

Just to bring in the Brazilian experience: Brazil allows pilots in comand to keep flying until they are not able to pass a more restrictive health check, and the pilot over 60 must be subject to such health check every 4 months. I know pilots who have more than 65 years and they are still working as captains for some Brazilian airlines in domestic routes.
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 2242
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:05 pm

Actually, their name comes from their origin in northwest Iowa, in the Iowa Great Lakes region. They were named Great Lakes well before they flew anywhere near Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie or Ontario.
 
BDL2DCA
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:46 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:06 am

Knope2001 - I think this belongs on the Great Lakes Av thread here :
Great Lakes? (by Mycrj17 Mar 16 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 12):
Actually, their name comes from their origin in northwest Iowa, in the Iowa Great Lakes region. They were named Great Lakes well before they flew anywhere near Superior, Michigan, Huron, Erie or Ontario.
146,319,320,321,333,343,722,732,733,734,735,73G,738,744,752,762,763,772,ARJ,BE1,CRJ,D9S,D10,DH8,ERJ,E70,F100,S80
 
NightFlier
Posts: 257
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:44 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:58 am

I met a pilot once who was flying for a charter company, the aircraft was a Citation. He was in his 70's, he explained to me that in General Aviation and Business, Private, and Corprite Aviation there is no cut off age. As-long as they can pass the medical they can continue flying for as long as they want. Peace
Airplanes are only as good as the people who fly&fix them.
 
SWISSER
Posts: 1568
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:31 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:04 am

Would'nt it be the most fair to do that any pilot who passes a Medical type 1 is certified to operate a commercial airliner?

Off course labor issues are there too, I know in Belgium the absolute age for your retirement is 68 in any profession except off course self employment. (sucks I guess...)
What time is top of descent?
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:36 pm

Quoting PIA747 (Reply 10):
Yes it has, Indian Civil Aviation authority due to the shortage of pilots in the local market has upped the age from 62 to 65. Many senior B747-400 Captains in AI have been recalled, saving the airline from hiring expensive expats.

What is PIAs retirement age?

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
scotron11
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:39 pm

AT BA, pilots retire at 55! Kinda seems "too" young to me.
 
Delta4eva
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:20 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:40 pm

Ive always thought that the age ceiling was age discrimination in the U.S. Just wait until i get up there, I will raise hell when i have to retire at 60.

And anyone who brings up the arguement that it is unsafe to have someone over 60 flying an aircraft, if they pass the same physical as everyone else, then they should be able to continue to fly. Now don't get be wrong, there are some 60 yr olds in bad shape, but there are some 45 and 50 yr olds in bad shape as well. Thats why I think it should be regulated by a first class medical and not age.
FLY DELTA JETS
 
scotron11
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:49 pm

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 18):

Thats why I think it should be regulated by a first class medical and not age.

Totally agree!
 
PIA777
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:39 am

RE: Age 60+ Foreign Pilots In US Airspace

Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:04 pm

Quoting Scotron11 (Reply 19):
Thats why I think it should be regulated by a first class medical and not age.

I agree. 60 is way too young to retire.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 77west, agrflyer, B77L, Baidu [Spider], jenzie, qf789, sassiciai, shamrock350 and 215 guests