DIA
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737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:57 am

The 737-700ER is a Boeing Business Jet-inspired airplane, designed for long-range commercial applications. The airplane features the fuselage of the commercial 737-700 and the wings and landing gear of the larger 737-800. The high-performance derivative can fly up to 2,145 nautical miles farther than the current 737-700. With up to nine optional auxiliary fuel tanks and optional Blended Winglets, the 737-700ER is capable of flying up to 5,510 nautical miles."
-Boeing

ANA is the launch customer for these a/c, is there any other interest yet?

What routes will ANA place these on?

What routes could this a/c open in the future?
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PlaneGuy27
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:14 am

Maybe a route like Tokyo Narita - Calgary??

PlaneGuy27
 
FLALEFTY
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting DIA (Thread starter):
With up to nine optional auxiliary fuel tanks and optional Blended Winglets, the 737-700ER is capable of flying up to 5,510 nautical miles."

Wow!

That would be a long time for some future unfortunates sitting in the dreaded, middle seats of the 737G-ER! Also, I've got to wonder if the lavs and galleys on a 737G-ER would be sufficient to serve 100+ passengers over the course of a 12-hour flight.

That said, however, I can see a modest sub-market for smaller airlines serving long-thin routes.
 
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mbm3
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:19 am

I saw this on Boeing's web site and I too had the same thought. There is no question that the 73G-ER will have amazing range, but will it be attractive to airlines or only charters? Given CO's creativity in sending narrowbodies TATL, this could be a good fit though I am unsure as to whether having a subfleet would be worth it.
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PlaneHunter
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 2):
That would be a long time for some future unfortunates sitting in the dreaded, middle seats of the 737G-ER!

It works on the B757, so why shouldn't it work on a B73G? Even sitting in a middle seat on a B747 or B777 is not so much better.


PH
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thepilot
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:09 am

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this item a specific design for NH like the 764 for DL and CO? I am all for this design, but it will be hard to optimize range because intercontinental routes tend to have a lot of baggage, and the auxillary fuel tanks take up cargo space. I think this plane will be a lot like the A319LR. Maybe airlines like JL or maybe possibly CO. This is purely speculation, though.
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LipeGIG
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:11 am

I believe that GOL could buy some 737-700ER's in order to fly some South American routes like GIG/GRU-LIM, GIG/GRU-MAO-MEX and others.

They have a 101 B738 operation (with 67 confirmed plus 34 options) and i believe they can convert 3 to 6 into firm orders of 737-700ER.

Felipe
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goCOgo
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:21 am

Once AQ has the ability, they might jump on it, given that they already operate the 737-700 to the mainland.

Quoting Mbm3 (Reply 3):
Given CO's creativity in sending narrowbodies TATL, this could be a good fit though I am unsure as to whether having a subfleet would be worth it.

Another possibility, but order more 787s before more narrowbodies for such services.

On the other hand, maybe CLE finally can get some additional transatlantic service!  Big grin

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 2):
Also, I've got to wonder if the lavs and galleys on a 737G-ER would be sufficient to serve 100+ passengers over the course of a 12-hour flight.

I would imagine Boeing has thought of the lav issue (though I can't say for sure), just enlarging the lav storage is hardly an engineering feat to brag about in a press release.
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CRGsFuture
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:26 am

I think will we see the 737-700ER on thoes long routes served by TA, and CM from places like JFK and MIA to PTY and SAL. I think this truely will help everyone on these long drawn out routes.

The 700ER is a really solid idea for flights to places like HNL from the West Coast of California, IMHO.
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panam330
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting GoCOgo (Reply 7):
On the other hand, maybe CLE finally can get some additional transatlantic service!

Hello year-round CLE-LGW service  Wink!
 
avconsultant
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:49 am

I do not envy the individual who is stuck in the middle seat for a 5000+ mile journey
 
hoya
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 10):
do not envy the individual who is stuck in the middle seat for a 5000+ mile journey

Happens all the time in 747s, 767s, 777s, A330/340s...so sitting in the middle seat is nothing new. I've done it on an 18-hr flight( QF 747 LAX-SYD with a fuel diversion/stop in BNE), and I survived.
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georgiabill
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:15 am

I tend to agree with CRGsFuture that Copa may be interested in the 737-700ER! It certainly would allow them to open up longer routes.
 
stirling
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:39 am

Not sure how a middle seat on a 737-700ER would be any different than the middle seat of any other long range airliner. Ceiling is higher is all I can think of.

The 707, and DC-8 were long-haul workhorses for 30 years....with a single aisle.......and it wasn't that bad....really.
Been there. Done that.
Curiously, isn't the capacity of this new flavor of 737 about the same as the intercontinental 707-300?

With that said....perception is reality.
Meaning.
There will be a significant segment of the traveling population that would look down on such a small mode of transportation to leap such great distances.

Even though they don't have plans for them, and probably never will, I could see them in the employ of an SNBrussels type airline, serving far-flung locations in the 2nd and 3rd worlds (Africa)?

Maybe AQ to open up more of the interior U.S.?

Continental's new transAtlantic machine for secondary and possibly tertiary destinations?

A Ryanair, easyJet, Air Berlin jet that opens up North America?
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flydreamliner
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:45 am

AA and CO have proven that long haul narrowbodies are still viable. Honestly, I would prefer the more personal service and faster boarding/deplaning a smaller jet offers on international flights, especially if it can save me a connection. I live in a major hub city and I still have to connect in ORD or DFW or PHL or EWR or LAX if I want to go anywhere overseas. I'd love to fly a nicely equipt 737-700ER overseas. I just hope they don't pack it with 155 seats.

I see it having a strong market to South America, as well as like say, to secondary cities in American and Europe. Say like, IAH or DFW to ARN, MUC, etc
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spartanmjf
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:52 am

"Ding! You Are Now Free To Move Across The Atlantic!"  duck 
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2travel2know
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:52 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 8):
I think will we see the 737-700ER on thoes long routes served by TA, and CM from places like JFK and MIA to PTY and SAL. I think this truely will help everyone on these long drawn out routes.

CM is doing quite fine with their B737-700/800 on their long routes (LAX, EZE, SCL, GRU) flying to those destinations with a B737-700ER which takes less passengers and baggage because the auxiliary fueltanks is ilogical. I rather see CM B737-900 (if range provided) to those destinations.

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 12):
I tend to agree with CRGsFuture that Copa may be interested in the 737-700ER! It certainly would allow them to open up longer routes.

If CM is thinking about nonstop flights between PTY and MAD, BCN (and any other major Spanish cities), London and MAN, plus LIS; and those routes could be profitable for them to fly on a B737-700ER with 70+ passengers (plus enough baggage room for them) - at least daily, they could sure try it. CM loves aircraft model commonality.
Destinations like FRA, MXP, Japan (Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya), Seoul, Shanghai and HKG would be out of the question for CM on a B737-700ER. The plane has no range for profitable non-stops between Germany/Italy and Panama, and the Far East could only be reached with an stop in ANC, YVR, SEA or PDX - which surely means US/Canada in-transit visa requirement for passengers.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
stirling
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:53 am

If my copy and paste function worked (BTW, anyone know how to fix that?), I would comment on Dreamliner's point on boarding and service....to me, that is a huge selling point!
Once people get beyond the stigma, they will see the concept of a small capacity, long-range jet is hugely appealing to people who fly for a living, big is not better, it's just more people in MY SPACE!
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MarcoT
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:26 pm

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 2):
That would be a long time for some future unfortunates sitting in the dreaded, middle seats of the 737G-ER! Also, I've got to wonder if the lavs and galleys on a 737G-ER would be sufficient to serve 100+ passengers over the course of a 12-hour flight.

Don't worry, it will have nowhere near 12 hours endurance with a 100+ passengers load ...

Quoting Stirling (Reply 13):

Continental's new A Ryanair, easyJet, Air Berlin jet that opens up North America?

What most of the replies have overlooked is that the 700ER is a 700 based BBJ certified for airline usage and outfitted at the factory to airline specs, the advantage over the BBJ-700 being mainly in resale value. It is not a new concept, as it has been pioneered by the A319LR vs the ACJ since some time.
As for the BBJ-700, the ACJ and the A319LR, the extra tankage allows simply for being able to trade off payload for fuel for achieving much longer range: a standard 73G or A319 will not achieve 5000+ nm range even empty because it will be tankage limitated. But fuel consumption has not being magically halved, nor has MTOW magically doubled: you still have to trade off payload with fuel ...
As far as I know A319LR e BBJ-700 have been utilized by PrivatAir and AF on some long range thin routes in the 4000 nm range in a Business class only config with some 50s seats and this is a good indication of the tradeoff in payloads needed...
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CM767
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:22 pm

Quoting MarcoT (Reply 18):
But fuel consumption has not being magically halved, nor has MTOW magically doubled: you still have to trade off payload with fuel ...

Quite true, still Boeing says that the MTOW was increased by 16,500 lb (7,485 kg) over the 700.

A question for I could not find an answer is: without auxiliary tanks what is the range advantage over the 700?, if there is a gain of 500NM it could allow CM to open PTY-YVR, on the other hand to be closer to reality the ER could allow to have higher payloads to EZE, GRU, SCL and LAX.
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jacobin777
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 14):
AA and CO have proven that long haul narrowbodies are still viable. Honestly, I would prefer the more personal service and faster boarding/deplaning a smaller jet offers on international flights, especially if it can save me a connection. I live in a major hub city and I still have to connect in ORD or DFW or PHL or EWR or LAX if I want to go anywhere overseas. I'd love to fly a nicely equipt 737-700ER overseas. I just hope they don't pack it with 155 seats.



Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 9):
Hello year-round CLE-LGW service

even PIT-LGW or IND-LGW, JAX-FRA........will be very interesting to see if either Boeing or Airbus could develop a cost efficient plane for the general masses...

that would open up city pairs unheard of...........
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2travel2know
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:44 am

Quoting CM767 (Reply 19):
A question for I could not find an answer is: without auxiliary tanks what is the range advantage over the 700?, if there is a gain of 500NM it could allow CM to open PTY-YVR, on the other hand to be closer to reality the ER could allow to have higher payloads to EZE, GRU, SCL and LAX.

CM flies upon delivery their brandnew B737-700/800 SEA - PTY non-stop. I guess PTY-YVR/SEA/PDX are still within range for a B737-700, maybe with a minor load-penalty (100 passenger max?).
I wish I knew more about that B737-700ER, then I could really say I would rather see CM flying PTY <> MAD twice daily and PTY <> SCQ, AGP, VLC, BCN, BIO, LPA/TFS, LIS daily - Instead of a daily PTY <> MAD on a B767/777/787 !
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CM767
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 21):
CM flies upon delivery their brandnew B737-700/800 SEA - PTY non-stop.

Yes they do , but with 60 or so guest with little luggage and no cargo, it takes about 7 hours 40 minutes.
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bohica
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:11 am

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 15):
"Ding! You Are Now Free To Move Across The Atlantic!"

That was the first thing I thought when I saw the thread. WN to Europe. I don't know if it is likely though but who knows?  Smile
 
2travel2know
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting Bohica (Reply 23):
That was the first thing I thought when I saw the thread. WN to Europe. I don't know if it is likely though but who knows?

I guess the most likely overseas destinations for WN in the future are those with U.S. Point of Entry faicilities (pre-clearance) and both SNN and DUB do qualify  Wink
But WN fleet is not equiped for long over-the-water segments; So for that part, I doubt they would even think about flying to Europe.
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FLALEFTY
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 24):
I guess the most likely overseas destinations for WN in the future are those with U.S. Point of Entry faicilities (pre-clearance) and both SNN and DUB do qualify
But WN fleet is not equiped for long over-the-water segments; So for that part, I doubt they would even think about flying to Europe.

If WN needs access to European routes, they will probably interline with ATA, just like they did to get a feed to Hawaii.
 
joeman
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 9):
Hello year-round CLE-LGW service

even PIT-LGW or IND-LGW, JAX-FRA........will be very interesting to see if either Boeing or Airbus could develop a cost efficient plane for the general masses...

that would open up city pairs unheard of...........

That would be terrific!!! Perhaps the airline gurus could actually begin to schedule more point to point nonstop service, especially from undersereved mid/large sized cities, and alleviate the overcrowding at their larger hubs within the U.S. It might alleviate the costs of transporting people in a round about way to get between their destinations. Point to point direct service is making a slow comeback, always interesting to see how long they last.

The current U.S. legacy mentality seems to be that reliever hubs are a bit of a pipedream, each carrier has to compete in each moderate (or smaller) and large city pair market by funneling all traffic through their overcrowded and overbearing superhubs, and they strive to dilute the international market by finding more pieces of dirt on the planet to connect with their superhubs only (to connect with their vast selection of U.S. destinations).

At this rate we'd be more likely to see EWR-Naples, ORD-Lucerne, or ATL-Heidelburg than the above mentioned possibilities. Look at all the new U.K. destinations that have come on board with direct service to the U.S. (BIG) hubs.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting Bohica (Reply 23):
That was the first thing I thought when I saw the thread. WN to Europe. I don't know if it is likely though but who knows?

I personally doubt it. While the 737-700ER sounds nice, the "fine print" mentions that they get that additional range by use of aux tanks in the cargo bins, which then leaves less room, for bags, cargo, etc.

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 25):
If WN needs access to European routes, they will probably interline with ATA, just like they did to get a feed to Hawaii

That I could see. If not, maybe the 737-900ER, but not the 737-700ER...
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MarcoT
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting CM767 (Reply 19):
Quite true, still Boeing says that the MTOW was increased by 16,500 lb (7,485 kg) over the 700.

Yes, because -as the BBJ-700- it uses the reinforced -800 wing.

Quoting CM767 (Reply 19):
A question for I could not find an answer is: without auxiliary tanks what is the range advantage over the 700?, if there is a gain of 500NM it could allow CM to open PTY-YVR, on the other hand to be closer to reality the ER could allow to have higher payloads to EZE, GRU, SCL and LAX.

Looking at the 73G with winglets payload range charts from the PDA available on Boeing site, it seems to me that for payload lower than 25,000 lbs (corresponding to about 120-125 pax + baggage, ie roughly a two class config) the plane is already tankage limited so increasing the MTOW will gain no range at all.
For higher payloads the increase in MTOW will translate in an increase in range, and looking at the charts it seems that a rough estimate when staying in the MTOW limited zone of the graph is that 5000 more lbs fuel means 400 more nm range. So even accounting for the increased weight of the 800 wings 500 nm more range seems possible. Keep in mind though that naturally this range increase could never bring the range beyond the range corresponding at the point in which the ac became tankage limited, ie a tad less than 3500 nm...
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tjwgrr
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:57 am

Maybe ANA wants to start a Lufthansa/ KLM (PrivatAir) type operation from Japan to Europe and/or North America.

They've only committed to two 737-700ER's so far.....

Boeing / ANA press release:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/news/2006/q1/060131a_nr.html
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yow
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:10 am

The 737-700ER would allow WestJet to launch Canada-Europe flights, while still maintaining 737 fleet commonality.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 15):
"Ding! You Are Now Free To Move Across The Atlantic!"

 rotfl  So true... Note: I don't expect this to happen soon. But... WN has shown a tendency to switch strategies when there is a RASM/CASM benifit on a big scale.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 27):
the "fine print" mentions that they get that additional range by use of aux tanks in the cargo bins, which then leaves less room, for bags, cargo, etc.

True, but the question is will this "cost" of lost space drive the economics away from a trans-Atlantic hauler? I see WN having quite an opportunity out of BWI. Looking at the great circle mapper, 4,000nm from BWI only misses Greece as a major western European destination. (I use 4,000 nm as my first WAG at the 73GER's effective range with winds, diversions, etc.) Maybe even more importantly, it brings Spain, France, and Britain in range of Florida. Alas, Germany would probably be load limited to Florida. Maybe possible?  scratchchin 

Lightsaber
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MTY2GVA
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:49 pm

I honestly find the 737-700ER unuseful except for maybe an all business configuration.
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jacobin777
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RE: 737-700ER Future Operators & Routes

Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:57 am

Quoting Joeman (Reply 26):
At this rate we'd be more likely to see EWR-Naples, ORD-Lucerne, or ATL-Heidelburg than the above mentioned possibilities. Look at all the new U.K. destinations that have come on board with direct service to the U.S. (BIG) hubs.

we can have those too. Smile

this would be a fleet planners dream (or nightmare) depends on how one looks at it....
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