LipeGIG
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TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:39 am

TAP confirmed today in Brazil that they get the necessary approval from CERNAI (The Brazilian DOT) to fly additional frequencies into their two top markets in Brazil: São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro. CERNAI also confirm such action.

TP will fly:

GIG-OPO - A332 - 3 times per week
GRU-OPO - A332 - 3 times per week
GRU-LIS - A332 OR A343 - 1 time per week (*)

(*) On tuesday, TP runs LIS-GIG-GRU-LIS (and not specific flights to GIG and GRU as the other days of the week). It seems that TP will announce a separate tuesday flight for both GIG and GRU (one will receive the A332 or even both can receive the A343... no confirmation yet).

OPO will get almost a daily flight (probably expect Tuesday) to Brazil, as well as the separate flights from LIS will add at least 240 seats to LIS.

As TP also announce they will use the A332 on SSA-LIS, it's a huge improvement on Brazil-Portugal service.

TP will announce the dates when the new services from OPO will begin very soon (later next week as per CERNAI's sources).

Congratulations to TP!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:10 am

Clear me out here please.

This means that that currently there are 6xweek LIS-GIG and 6xweek LIS-GRU and once a week a LIS-GIG-GRU-LIS? I was not aware of that!

And according to your post, this triangle flight will be split into the new LIS-GRU and the current LIS-GIG-GRU will terminate at GIG?

It seems Tap has found quickly were it will use the new planes!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:32 am

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 1):
This means that that currently there are 6xweek LIS-GIG and 6xweek LIS-GRU and once a week a LIS-GIG-GRU-LIS? I was not aware of that!

Yes Rafa, the tuesday TP service to Rio-São Paulo is a LIS-GIG-GRU-LIS flight during the low season. On summer/winter TP runs 7x weekly.

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 1):
And according to your post, this triangle flight will be split into the new LIS-GRU and the current LIS-GIG-GRU will terminate at GIG?

Yes, but it's not confirmed if GRU or GIG get A343 or A332.

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 1):
It seems Tap has found quickly were it will use the new planes!

Right. One will be used during low season for SSA (during the high season they use to run LIS-SSA-LIS with A343 too)

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
LatinPlane
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:18 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
GIG-OPO - A332 - 3 times per week
GRU-OPO - A332 - 3 times per week

So now OPO will be linked to three cities in South America. CCS being the current destination served.

Varig at one time also flew to OPO, correct?

 Smile LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
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LTU932
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:22 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 1):
It seems Tap has found quickly were it will use the new planes!

Indeed. And imagine once the factory new A332s and A350s will arrive. Expansion will be more than ever in order.

Excellent news for TP and Brazil! Thank you for sharing this info, Felipe. I hope they will do very well on their new routes.
 
hardiwv
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:30 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
Indeed. And imagine once the factory new A332s and A350s will arrive. Expansion will be more than ever in order.

Correct.

Lipe, thanks for the breaking news. It seems that TAP remains more than ever focused on the Brazilian market.

After consolidation in the Northeast Brazilian market, TAP will now concentrate its efforts in the two Brazilian markets, GRU and GIG, with the aim of increasing flights to these destinations twice daily. Along GRU and GIG, SSA is also singled out as an important market, receiving TP first A330 dedicated service providing a major boost in this destination.

I see this as a wise move by TAP, other ailrines such as AF and IB are also doubling flights in GRU and TAP need to react to competition. Instead of opening up new destinations in Brazil (such as BEL, BSB or CNF), TAP needs to secure the key market where the real money flows, i.e. (first and foremost) GRU and GIG.

Rgs,
 
Brasuca
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
Instead of opening up new destinations in Brazil (such as BEL, BSB or CNF), TAP needs to secure the key market where the real money flows, i.e. (first and foremost) GRU and GIG.

TAP wouldn't have launched 26 weekly flights to Brazilian northeast, then, if under such convinction.
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:06 am

Quoting Latinplane (Reply 3):
Varig at one time also flew to OPO, correct?

You're right, i believe it was on 90's.

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 5):
I see this as a wise move by TAP, other ailrines such as AF and IB are also doubling flights in GRU and TAP need to react to competition

Yes Hardi, but seems that TP is the only one that add a new destination. The others shows that they made efforts to improve their hubs. I believe BCN could keep a flight to Brazil, but IB seems to be focus (see Barajas new T4) on MAD.

Any one has an idea of connections available at OPO to be used by Rio/SP Passangers ?

Can OPO keep good loads and yields year round to GIG and GRU ?

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
BigGSFO
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:39 am

This is off the subject but somewhat related, but what country outside Brazil has the highest population of Brazilians/Brazilian-descents? Is it Portugal? I understand the strong ties between Portugal and Brazil but am curious how much traffic between the two is VFF.
 
EMB195ER
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:36 am

Hello everybody!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
Any one has an idea of connections available at OPO to be used by Rio/SP Passangers ?

London is a very good connection, Lipe. Connections via OPO will probably be more convenient then those via LIS.

In june I am flying TAP to GRU and my flight departs from Gatwick around 6am and it will give me only 40min time connection in LIS. I do hope my luggage will arrive with me in GRU.  crossfingers 

Hugs,
Claudio
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
This is off the subject but somewhat related, but what country outside Brazil has the highest population of Brazilians/Brazilian-descents? Is it Portugal?

United States, Paraguay, Japan, United Kingdom and Portugal are the top 5 as per Brazilian Foreign Affairs Ministry.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
orlando666
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:48 pm

From Europe > Brasil, they are the top carrier (connection possibilities in bothe Europe and onto the most destinations in Brasil for any European airline). Air Madrid also offers many destinations in Brasil from Barcelona & Madrid (A330).
 
MAH4546
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:53 pm

Quoting Orlando666 (Reply 11):
Air Madrid also offers many destinations in Brasil from Barcelona & Madrid (A330).

No they don't. They only fly Fortaleza.
a.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting EMB195ER (Reply 9):
London is a very good connection, Lipe. Connections via OPO will probably be more convenient then those via LIS.

In june I am flying TAP to GRU and my flight departs from Gatwick around 6am and it will give me only 40min time connection in LIS. I do hope my luggage will arrive with me in GRU.

All will depend on the time of the flights. TP could run daily GIG/GRU-OPO in order to take advantage of the evening arrivals at OPO from London, Barcelona, Bologna, Paris and others to fly a night flight OPO-GIG/GRU
But could be also a daily-light OPO-Brazil, the same as the other TP flights.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Quoting Orlando666 (Reply 11):
Air Madrid also offers many destinations in Brasil from Barcelona & Madrid (A330).

No they don't. They only fly Fortaleza.

And nowadays only from MAD, they have plans for a BCN-FOR-SCL flight, but it's not confirmed.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
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LTU932
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:25 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
And nowadays only from MAD, they have plans for a BCN-FOR-SCL flight, but it's not confirmed.

NM hasn't really been open about their further plans for flights out of BCN. I recall they announced a flight BCN-SJO, but so far no further news on this. For the moment, I wouldn't expect anything by NM out of BCN. They should focus on getting new or at least more widebodies, because with their current widebody fleet, it's too hard to keep up with their schedules. Four A330s and one A310 just won't cut it for NM and their current Latin American network.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:48 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 14):
NM hasn't really been open about their further plans for flights out of BCN. I recall they announced a flight BCN-SJO, but so far no further news on this. For the moment, I wouldn't expect anything by NM out of BCN. They should focus on getting new or at least more widebodies, because with their current widebody fleet, it's too hard to keep up with their schedules. Four A330s and one A310 just won't cut it for NM and their current Latin American network

I agree 100%. We heard on Brazil they have plans for a weekly service BCN-FOR-SCL but i don't know if they are availability of planes to run this route (even weekly!)

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MAH4546
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:42 pm

Air Madrid begins Barcelona-Fortaleza-Santiago de Chile on 28 March 2006:

NM 1421 BCN 2350-0320 FOR 0450-0950 SCL 332 Tu
NM 1422 SCL 1200-1800 FOR 1930-0830 BCN 332 We

No local traffic on FOR-SCL-FOR.
a.
 
photolppt
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
All will depend on the time of the flights. TP could run daily GIG/GRU-OPO in order to take advantage of the evening arrivals at OPO from London, Barcelona, Bologna, Paris and others to fly a night flight OPO-GIG/GRU
But could be also a daily-light OPO-Brazil, the same as the other TP flights.

Hi,

TP announced today that the flights [GIG, GRU and EWR] will be in the mornings, leaving OPO at 11:15 with the following schedule:

Porto - S�o Paulo
11h15 every tuesday, thursday and saturday
Porto - Rio
11h15 every monday, wednsday and friday
Porto - Newark
11h15 every tuesday, friday and sunday.

Intereing is that TP plans to attract people form Galicia as well, offering free shuttles to Vigo, Pontevedra, Santiago de Compostella and la Coruna.

More info here (PT only, sorry)
http://www.setbb.com/lisbonspotters/...?p=2476&mforum=lisbonspotters#2476
 
PPVRA
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:23 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):

No local traffic on FOR-SCL-FOR.

A handfull of tourists, but that's probably about it.

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Humberside
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting PhotoLPPT (Reply 17):
Porto - Newark
11h15 every tuesday, friday and sunday.

Will there be a codeshare from UA and/or US on this route?

Its good to see TP expanding away from LIS
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
MAH4546
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 18):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):

No local traffic on FOR-SCL-FOR.

A handfull of tourists, but that's probably about it.

That isn't what I meant. Air Madrid is not allowed to sell tickets locally.
a.
 
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LTU932
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:17 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):
Air Madrid is not allowed to sell tickets locally.

Which is probably due to them not having the necessary 5th freedom rights.
 
PPVRA
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:08 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 20):

That isn't what I meant. Air Madrid is not allowed to sell tickets locally.

Oh ok.

But do you think can they obtain the rights, at least for a few seats? It would be beneficial for pax and improve service in the region... good generally.

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:35 am

Back to TP

"Flights from Porto to São Paulo depart at 11h15 on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. Return flights depart at 18h55 Tuesdays Thurdays and Sundays"

"Flights to New York depart Porto at 11h15 Tuesdays, Fridays and Sundays. Return flights depart at 21h15 Mondays, Thrusdays and Sundays."

How come is that possible? These are daylight flights with same day return. Will the flights be rotated with Lisbon flights?

"TAP will also increase frequencies between Sao Paulo and Lisbon from seven to eight weekly flights through the adition of a second flight on Sundays."

Quoting LipeGIG (Thread starter):
GIG-OPO - A332 - 3 times per week
GRU-OPO - A332 - 3 times per week
GRU-LIS - A332 OR A343 - 1 time per week (*)

(*) On tuesday, TP runs LIS-GIG-GRU-LIS (and not specific flights to GIG and GRU as the other days of the week). It seems that TP will announce a separate tuesday flight for both GIG and GRU (one will receive the A332 or even both can receive the A343... no confirmation yet).

So Lipe, did U mix up your information? Is the increase from 13 to 14 weekly for GIG and GRU (from 6 GRU, 6 GIG and 1 GIG-GRU to 7GRU and 7GIG ) or is it from 14 to 15 (from 7GRU, 7GIG to 8GRU, 7GIG)?

[Edited 2006-03-17 22:37:31]

[Edited 2006-03-17 22:38:42]
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 23):
How come is that possible? These are daylight flights with same day return. Will the flights be rotated with Lisbon flights?

Time Zones: Portugal is ahead of Brazil and US (+3), the same plane arrive at GIG/GRU and return. It's the same as LIS flights.

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 23):
"TAP will also increase frequencies between Sao Paulo and Lisbon from seven to eight weekly flights through the adition of a second flight on Sundays."

The info i obtained was that TP intention was to run separate flights on tuesday (it's LIS-GIG-GRU-LIS). Seems that TP decision was in favor of the availability of the plane used for OPO-GIG and OPO-GRU (on sunday).

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:34 am

No Lipe, I am afraid that time zones do not explain,

If the plane leaves Portugal in the morning, it arrives in Brazil late afternoon of the same day and is rotated to go back to Portugal early evening. It is the same with Europe-East Coast, only difference is that they seat on the tarmac for longer due to the bigger time difference.


In any case flights should depart Brazil and the US in the same day they leave from Portugal. They do arrive the next morning.

At least for me the mystery remains. I still think that some of these OPO flights alternate with some LIS frequencies, it is the only explanation. Besides this rotation eliminates the need of OPO-LIS flights with A332.

Can someone clarify?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:00 am

Raffa,

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 23):
Flights from Porto to São Paulo depart at 11h15 on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. Return flights depart at 18h55 Tuesdays Thurdays and Sundays"

In the case of this flight/plane. It will be used:

Monday morning - OPO-GIG / Return the same day - GIG-OPO
Tuesday morning - OPO-GRU / Return the same day - GRU-OPO
Wednesday morning - OPO-GIG / Return the same day - GIG-OPO
Thursday morning - OPO-GRU / Return the same day - GRU-OPO
Friday morning - OPO-GIG / Return the same day - GIG-OPO
Saturday morning - OPO-GRU / Return the same day - GRU-LIS
Sunday morning - LIS-GRU / Return sunday night - GRU-OPO

The other plane (another A332) flying to New York could runs the LIS flights as you stated. Can any one confirm ?

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
A360
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:30 pm

Will the flights from OPO to EWR be flown with a 332?!

I guess not, since LIS-EWR is done with a 310, so I guess OPO-EWR will also be 310... or not?


Regards:
A360
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting A360 (Reply 27):
I guess not, since LIS-EWR is done with a 310, so I guess OPO-EWR will also be 310... or not?

I take a look on TP reservation system and the flights LIS-EWR will be upgraded from A310 to the A332.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting PhotoLPPT (Reply 17):
TP announced today that the flights [GIG, GRU and EWR] will be in the mornings, leaving OPO at 11:15 with the following schedule:

EWR/OPO has got to be a terrible route. Little to no connectivity on either end, infrequent service, and lower than low yields....or am I missing something?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
fleitao
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:28 am

Hi,

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
United States, Paraguay, Japan, United Kingdom and Portugal are the top 5 as per Brazilian Foreign Affairs Ministry.

Don't forget Italy and the growing market of France. TAP is making a great effort in connecting Brazil to Italy where it has a growing number of daily connections to Milan, Roma and now Bologna (PGA also flies to Turin, Naples and Venice, i think), also taking advantage of the poor coverage that Alitalia is making in LIS and OPO.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 29):
EWR/OPO has got to be a terrible route. Little to no connectivity on either end, infrequent service, and lower than low yields....or am I missing something?

A reasonable number of portuguese immigrants in the Newark area (over 50.000) ?? Can that be what you're missing ? I don't know but Newark (and Boston, in the old days) has always been a good route.

Regards

Francisco Leitão
An Airbus is not a Playstation with wings.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:05 am

Quoting Fleitao (Reply 30):
Don't forget Italy and the growing market of France. TAP is making a great effort in connecting Brazil to Italy where it has a growing number of daily connections to Milan, Roma and now Bologna (PGA also flies to Turin, Naples and Venice, i think), also taking advantage of the poor coverage that Alitalia is making in LIS and OPO.

Both are important markets but the other five (US, Paraguay, Japan, UK and Portugal) keep as the more important destinations. I believe that in the future Paraguay will be not a top 5 country, and probably France, Spain or Italy took this space.
TP is growing it's european network and one of the reasons is the huge connecting pax number from Brazilian Northeast.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:06 am

Quoting Fleitao (Reply 30):
A reasonable number of portuguese immigrants in the Newark area (over 50.000) ?? Can that be what you're missing ?

The demand for NYC-OPO is about 2% that of NYC-LIS.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
boeingbus
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:43 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 32):

The demand for NYC-OPO is about 2% that of NYC-LIS.

You are talking about the Northwestern part of the Iberian peninsula getting an easy route to the capital of the world, New York City.

Yeah, I think there is demand.

I don't question the fact that TP is expanding in the US... I wonder if EWK is the right choice. TP being in the Star Alliance I wonder if TP should think going back to JFK, where UA has some international flights???
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:03 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 33):
Yeah, I think there is demand.

Not based on any numbers... Even with current connections, of which there are many easy, convenient connections, there is miniscule demand for NYC-OPO.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
airbazar
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
Not based on any numbers... Even with current connections, of which there are many easy, convenient connections, there is miniscule demand for NYC-OPO.

There's enough demand for them to operate the flight. Believe me, if there wasn't they wouldn't fly it. This is the same airline that droped BOS and has a huge need for aircraft to fly to Brazil. If they still chose to operate a EWR-OPO is because there is demand for it. Have you checked fares? At $1000 R/T for the cheapest available fare and a fully loaded A310, they're making money on it.
 
boeingbus
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):

There are charter airlines currently serving this route in this summer. I believe its King Holidays... so there is a demand...but I guess you could be right... may not be enough.... but lets wait and see before passing judgement.

OPO is a fantastic city!
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
incitatus
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:43 am

What will be TAP's next destination in Brazil? Maceio' - MCZ?
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LipeGIG
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 37):
What will be TAP's next destination in Brazil? Maceio' - MCZ?

MCZ and/or BSB. But before goingo to a new destination, i believe they will upgrade NAT to daily (nowadays 5x weekly).

We already know the destination for 3 of 4 A332 (one to new OPO flights to GIG and GRU, one to FOR/SSA and one to LIS-EWR).

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
PPVRA
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:06 am

Hey guys, someone who knows how many daily flight across the Atlantic TP has please click here:

How Many Flights A Day Across The Atlantic? (by StarGoldLHR Mar 28 2006 in Civil Aviation)

... and update the list. Thanks!

Abracos

[Edited 2006-03-28 19:07:07]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
DETA737
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RE: TP New Services GIG-OPO And GRU-OPO Approved.

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:53 pm

I'm not sure how the OPO longhauls will do, but it seems that many of the emigrants in the US that are not from the Azores are from Northern Portugal...though I have my doubts as to how profitable these flights can be, I hope TAP proves me wrong.

[Edited 2006-03-29 08:07:58]