kaitak
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Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:44 am

Good evening, bienvenue, wilkommen and (lest we forget) Failte!

Not an inappropriate start, because this whole privatisation business is starting to look like a cabaret, old chums ...

Right, enough musical references!

It looks like Mr. Mannion is finally starting to speak up about EI, calling for a decision to be made this month, leading to privatisation later this year. Helpfully, the Dear Leader has again affirmed his view that the airline should be privatised, so I think a decision will be made this month.

Here's the IT story:
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2006/0313/breaking63.htm

You'll see (and I hope you can access it, as the IT is one of those subscription sites) that DM also talks about the problems a delay in making a decision will cause for EI fleet plans : it won't help. Good on DM; it's not often that an EI CEO speaks out publicly (and I wish he would do so more often); it's important for the purposes of building confidence among potential investors that the airline's leadership is seen to have backbone and vision. I think both are there, but I would like to see a willingness to speak out more often.

Also expected this month is the EU vote on Open Skies and that obviously has significant consequences for EI; it's not the EU vote I'm worried about, but possible problems with the US Congress, which is making noises about being bypassed by the DOT (spurred on by CO and others).

Also interesting is the fact that two of the bluest of blue chip airlines are expected to make their decisions on new long haulers soon. SIA and Emirates will decide between the 787 and A350; Emirates' boss (and DM's former boss!) Tim Clark has strongly hinted that he prefers the 787; SIA is also known to prefer the 787, so there's another two the 350 has lost; even airlines like Asiana and Jet (A330 customers) seem to be rejecting the 350. I know people say that the 350 is all new, but I don't buy it; sure, it's remodelled and all that, but it's still a 330, albeit a vastly upgraded one.

I hardly need to say, after all that (and previous posts) which one I'd prefer to see EI buy, but whatever they do, I hope they have the freedom to buy what they want; I believe they will.
 
EI321
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:47 am

Quoting Kaitak (Thread starter):
I know people say that the 350 is all new, but I don't buy it; sure, it's remodelled and all that, but it's still a 330, albeit a vastly upgraded one.

I dont see what all the fuss is about. EK are clearly waiting for the 787 10 to be made availible before deciding. SQ are ordering the 777/A340 class aswell as the 787/A350 so its hardly surprising to see them go boeing on a combo deal like this. The A350 is selling well considering how far off it is, approaching three years behind the 787, how many orders did the 787 have three yrs ago?

As for the EI and the above you seem to point out the l/h LCC idea and the 787s 9 abreast configs but the A350 is suitable in 9 abreast also (some A330 operators already use it. The cost in real terms of EI aquiring the A350 would be considerably less than the 787 IMO

This SIPTU situation is worrying to say the least.... me laptop battery is going flat, will post in the mornin.......

[Edited 2006-03-14 01:48:40]
 
EI321
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:32 pm

Cork Union members meet today to discuss the possibility of industrial action and look likely to follow their dublin and shannon counterparts in voting for the ballot on a strike.

“Members are particularly concerned over the impact privatisation will have on security of employment and pension rights if it goes ahead,” said Siptu national industrial secretary Michael Halpenny.

He has also written to the assistant secretary responsible for aviation at the Department of Transport, John Murphy, enquiring about state investment in Aer Lingus under EU rules, and to Aer Lingus chief executive Dermot Mannion, seeking clarification on pensions, including indexation, job security and other outstanding industrial relations issues.
 
Eirjet
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:36 pm

[quote=EI321,reply=1]This SIPTU situation is worrying to say the least....quote]

I agree. SIPTU are making noises about industrial action, EI CEO (Mannion) claims it may not come to that.

But if we examine Union disputes in Ireland over the last few months - We had the very public Irish Ferries dispute, There is noise coming from taxi unions about regulating fares, the ESB is in hot water with the Unions over the treatment and pay for contract workers.

The SIPTU representatives in EI may see this as an opportunity, to round up support from other union representatives and turn this into a bigger political debate, it may not get the unions what they want, but it could cause major problems for EI management, and after all isn't that what unions are about!!!!!- as has already being mentioned we are nearing a general election - the unions may play the sympathy card, and argue that their disagreement with EI management is typical of the Government failing the workers of Ireland etc etc etc.......

In typical Irish Style, the privatisation debate hasn't even begun in my opinion... Unions + Govt + General Election = Shambles

Eirjet
Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
 
EI321
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:37 pm

Well after the last election debacle, the last thing bertie or cullen want to been percieved as is men who wont keep their promises. Theres still a good chance that a strike can be avoided (prob at the last minute), but at what cost to the company? One possible senario is the govt will back track and sell off a smaller share than originally intended, which wont be worth damn all. Who wants to buy shares in an airline which will effectivly remain in state control anyway?
The Cork staff will without a doubt vote to go to ballot on industrial action tonight.
 
Kangar
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:04 am

I see another rape of the Irish taxpayer in the offing......SIPTU make me sick, this is a ploy to gain prestige by standing up to the capitalist vultures and thereby undermine impact - they (SIPTU) do actually still see business in those terms. Similar to the time Mr Foley curiously got stitched up when he developed too good a working relationship with Impact.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:11 am

I was just reading the news on aerlingus.com and I saw that they spelt "Aer Lingus" wrong!

"Air Lingus has announced the completion of an agreement with Airbus for the purchase of two long haul A330 aircrafts that will be used for new long haul routes in anticipation of bi-lateral changes. Dermot Mannion, Aer Lingus Chief Executive and Christopher Buckley, Airbus Executive Vice President Europe, CIS and Latin America signed the agreement at Dublin airport today."
.
Funny how many people on here correct others on how it's spelt and even Aer Lingus themselves spell it wrong.
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:23 am

Kaitak.

Missed your lauching this thread last night so I started my own part II but this is fine by me. Let keep this one alive as it is easier for me Big grin

There is one question about SIPTU which I have not gotten a good answer, and that is just what is this 300 Million Euro plus short fall in the retirement fund I keep on seeing mentioned. Just what is behind that and how did it get so large?
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:36 am

Hi Poitin,

Pensions are extremely complicated and I won't even pretend to understand them fully. My understanding is that the pension fund is currently okay, but long term, it's likely to face a significant shortfall. I don't understand what the issues involved are, apart from the fact that it needs to be corrected! How that's going to be done, I don't know!

Two interesting bits of news today (or three, if you count the fact that some people who should know better - in EI itself - can't spell "Aer Lingus"!)

- The A330 deal has been done. Mannion is still saying a final decision hasn't been made on what aircraft will be selected for the long haul.

- More significantly (I think) is that in a reply to a PQ, the minister said that if the EU/US talks go sour, he will look into what can be done directly with the US to get the required access. This is something I've been hoping for, for some time. It is an important signal to potential investors as well. I'll post the PQ a little later.
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 1):
As for the EI and the above you seem to point out the l/h LCC idea and the 787s 9 abreast configs but the A350 is suitable in 9 abreast also (some A330 operators already use it. The cost in real terms of EI aquiring the A350 would be considerably less than the 787 IMO

I have looked at several airlines (EI, AC, SWISS) and they all seem to do 8 seats wide. Could you give us a few examples of 9 seat abreast A330s? The reason why I ask is this was a hot issue on another thread a week or so ago.

I do agree that it would be cheaper in terms of training, sparing and such for EI to go with the A350, but not at the cost of operating efficiency over several years of service with high fuel costs only going higher.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
EI787
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:54 am

 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting EI787 (Reply 10):
Confirmation from Airbus about the EI order:

Thank you. One 330-200 and 330- 300 each. Wonder where they will be used?
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:19 am

Well, SFO is said to be definite (and a 333X - the extended range version - could reach SFO easily from DUB. Other options mentioned were PHL - notwithstanding the US Airways service - and either MIA or DFW. I would expect EI to serve one of the latter two and AA, the other, with each codesharing on the other's flight. There has also been talk of two more A330s, but nothing clear yet.

As for which airlines operating 8 abreast Airbus A330s, I think only charter airlines have done so. It really isn't an appealing prospect; several airlines, including Monarch, have tried nine abreast on A300s, and again, fine for flights to Alicante or Palma; less fine if you're flying long haul. When returning through Bahrain on the way home on Saturday, there was a Monarch A300 there, BAH being its en route stop from Goa to the UK. Now there's a prospect: ten hours (at least!) on an A300 at nine abreast. Not nice.

The 777 is operated ten abreast by EK (and one or two others I think - possibly Air Austral or a Japanese carrier on domestic routes), but that's more pleasant. I've experienced EK 10 abreast and although it was some time ago, I don't recall it being too uncomfortable. HOWEVER, the 787 at nine abreast can accommodate wider seats than the 777 can at 10 abreast, so you have a considerable advantage there. The more I think of it, the more I think the 787 is the best option. EK is expected to launch the 787-10 at the end of this month, possibly next month; that aircraft, being of a similar length to the A350-900, will carry around 30-40 extra seats. Over the lifetime of the aircraft, that translates to significant extra revenue costs and if EI is serious about going down the long haul low cost route, the 787 really is the best option.

DM has said that the selection of A330s as the interim aircraft doesn't affect its choice of the long term fleet. It stands to reason in a way; they're paying around $190m; if they were part of an A350 deal, EI would have got them a lot cheaper, so desperate is Airbus to sell the type.

There are a few new deals in the pipeline for new aircraft and I can think of no airline which is leaning towards the 350. EK was, but Tim Clark (DM's former boss) is made no secret of his preference for the 787; Air Pacific of Fiji is leaning towards it; Jet Airways (an existing 330 customer), Asiana (also a 330 customer) and SIA, which is supposed to announce its order later this month, have all either indicated a preference for the 787 or ruled out the 350. Now, what does that tell you? I know what it tells me.
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 8):
Pensions are extremely complicated and I won't even pretend to understand them fully. My understanding is that the pension fund is currently okay, but long term, it's likely to face a significant shortfall. I don't understand what the issues involved are, apart from the fact that it needs to be corrected! How that's going to be done, I don't know!

While this may be an extremely complicated issue, I somehow suspect it is THE ISSUE with SIPTU. While I know nothing about the political issues at EI beyond what I read in these threads, I can tell you I do know California political issues, in which public service employee unions have basically taken over control of the state. Retirement benefits are from the land of milk and honey. Totally bonkers. My next door neighbor is a retired fireman (after 10 years service) with 85% pay, plus benefits. And he has a new job as well, as guess what? A fireman.

IF this is what SIPTU has managed to get from the little people on Kildare Steet, then they will fight to the death for it, and with it the end of EI.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
bx737
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:08 am

Just have to say that as an EI employee who is a member of Impact I don't like SIPTUs stance on this issue. Balloting for industrial action serves no good purpose to anyone. Going the full length and actually going on strike will result in pax numbers falling and will result in the airline being worth less. This will have the effect of having less finance available for the pensions deficit and for fleet renewal. This will put EIs future in jeopardy. This serves SIPTUs members how....exactly?

I think SIPTU are using this as a bargaining tool in the current national round of pay deals. They are playing for high stakes. I also think that SIPTU are trying to ensure their members job security. However SIPTU think that strikes are the way to go. This I believe is wrong.

EI also has the difficulty of Bertie to deal with. Bertie seems to like SIPTU and seems to agree with most things they say. This is a problem. Aer Lingus needs to be sold off in order to secure the future. I hope the dinosaurs in SIPTU and the government wake up and smell the coffee and do what is in the interests of Aer Lingus.
 
 
Btriple7
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:17 am

Quote:
"The longer between a definitive decision and the date of the transaction, the more there is a risk of other extraneous factors jumping up which might have an adverse effect on the transaction," he [Dermot Mannion] said.

SOURCE: http://www.unison.ie/business/storie...80176

It seems Mr. Mannion knows that EI must be privitized in order to avoid other problem that could occur.

Quote:
Asked if delays could affect any deals between Aer Lingus and either Boeing or Airbus on new planes, he [Dermot Mannion] added: "It could do. I can't be definitive on that at the moment because negotiations are still going with the manufacturers, but it would be unhelpful to that process, yes."

SOURCE: http://www.unison.ie/business/storie...80176

It seems Mr. Mannion is carefully considering both manufactures.  bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup  Mr. Mannion.


I glad EI has a very sensible CEO at its helm. Mr. Mannion seems like a good man for the job of taking EI through this difficult time.

Regards,
Btriple7
Just...fly.
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Bx737 (Reply 14):


EI also has the difficulty of Bertie to deal with. Bertie seems to like SIPTU and seems to agree with most things they say. This is a problem. Aer Lingus needs to be sold off in order to secure the future. I hope the dinosaurs in SIPTU and the government wake up and smell the coffee and do what is in the interests of Aer Lingus.

For what good it will do, I will pray for your job. You understand. I wish you good luck and happiness.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 16):
I glad EI has a very sensible CEO at its helm. Mr. Mannion seems like a good man for the job of taking EI through this difficult time.

Kaitak seems to like him, but I think we need someone more forceful. However, maybe DM is up to the job. We shall see.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Btriple7
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 18):
Kaitak seems to like him, but I think we need someone more forceful. However, maybe DM is up to the job. We shall see.

Dermot Mannion has plenty of experience. I think that is what sets him a part from other airline CEOs. Coming from EK, I think he knows what it takes to run an airline. You may be right about needing to more forceful (like Michael O'Leary for example). I just hope he gets EI in the right direction.

Regards,
Btriple7
Just...fly.
 
Horus
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:55 am

This summer there will be a weekly DUB-SSH flight. Can anyone shed any light on the airline and timings of this flight?

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:22 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 19):
Dermot Mannion has plenty of experience. I think that is what sets him a part from other airline CEOs. Coming from EK, I think he knows what it takes to run an airline. You may be right about needing to more forceful (like Michael O'Leary for example). I just hope he gets EI in the right direction.

Amen, brother, amen. He is our only hope. Where is MO'L when you need him? And what does he know that we don't?
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
n272wa
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Wed Mar 15, 2006 4:59 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 20):
This summer there will be a weekly DUB-SSH flight. Can anyone shed any light on the airline and timings of this flight?

There is currently a weekly Dublin > Sharm El Sheikh flight, operated by Monarch. Not sure of day of operation though.... sorry :-/
Next: (EI)DUB-ORD-DUB, DUB-EWR-IAH-DFW-MSY-AUS-AMA-DEN-EWR-DUB
 
bx737
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 17):
For what good it will do, I will pray for your job. You understand. I wish you good luck and happiness.

Thanks for the vote of confidence and the prayers, we'll need them if Bertie decides he has to listen to SIPTU
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:50 am

I was just looking at the Aer Lingus website and just saw a link on the USA site saying "Flight School, Earn your wings" I clicked on it and it was a template for your own EI paper aeroplane. A nice touch from EI  Smile
 
Btriple7
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:06 am

Okay I have another load of new articles:
http://www.centreforaviation.com/avi..._fleet_with_purchase_of_two_A330s/
http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=4357
http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/in....php3?ca=9&si=88525&breakingnews=1
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=176043218&p=y76x439z4
http://www.noticias.info/asp/aspComunicados.asp?nid=155079&src=0
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=176121584&p=y76yzzz9x
All the articles pretty much follow what we have been talking about here.
Enjoy!!!  Smile

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 24):
I was just looking at the Aer Lingus website and just saw a link on the USA site saying "Flight School, Earn your wings" I clicked on it and it was a template for your own EI paper aeroplane. A nice touch from EI  Smile

Nice. I like that. Here is a link for anyone who could not find it.

Quoting Poitin (Reply 21):
Amen, brother, amen. He is our only hope. Where is MO'L when you need him? And what does he know that we don't?

Now wait a minute. I said Michael O'Leary had more charisma than Dermot Mannion. I never said I'd rather have O'Leary running EI instead of Mannion. That would not be good. Just thought I'd clear that up.

Regards,
Btriple7
Just...fly.
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 25):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 21):
Amen, brother, amen. He is our only hope. Where is MO'L when you need him? And what does he know that we don't?

Now wait a minute. I said Michael O'Leary had more charisma than Dermot Mannion. I never said I'd rather have O'Leary running EI instead of Mannion. That would not be good. Just thought I'd clear that up.

Regards,
Btriple7

I never said that you said anything, my man. However, just IMAGINE if SPITU woke up one morning and found MO'L as CEO of EI.  eyepopping  Okay, now back that off one step and get pussycat Bertie to say. "You, know, if me good friend Dermot should decide to leave and go back to Dubai, I think I would ask me good friend Michael O'Leary to take over EI."  box 

Now that would be sending the Pooka, or maybe the Dullahan into SIPTU.

And I suspect it is what it will take to get SIPTU to get reasonable.


BTW -- has anyone traced down SIPTU's claims the EI is short some 330 million euros in the pension fund?  confused 
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Horus
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting N272WA (Reply 22):
There is currently a weekly Dublin > Sharm El Sheikh flight, operated by Monarch. Not sure of day of operation though.... sorry :-/

Thanks N272WA. AFAIK MON2787/2786 operates every Thursday with a B752.

Can anyone find out the summer DUB-SSH timetable?

Horus
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:10 am

Before Willie Walsh left EI there were many rumors that EI were about to leave the Oneworld alliance but now that DM has been at EI for a good few months, has he said anything about leaving the OW or staying there?
With new airlines joining, EI could really do well in the OW.
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:36 am

I'm not absolutely sure where things stand with Oneworld; as far as I'm aware, they are still in there. I personally think they are much better being in it than outside of it, particularly as they develop their long haul flights.

Incidentally, I am disappointed to note that despite a considerable lead in time to the opening of the DXB route, EI doesn't seem to have updated either of the two non-PTV A330s with new screens. So what do they do now? Put 'DAA on the DXB route; if so, what about LAX? A route of that length should have PTVs. It is really quite annoying that they are starting what they acknowledge is a new chapter in the airline's development. They've already arsed up the scheduling and now this; a little thought and forward planning would have avoided this.

Long haul is hugely important to the airline's future and it would have been good if they used the new route to show a new service product and the beginning of a new EI on long haul routes; now that chance has been lost. Don't forget that EI isn't the only option from Ireland to Dubai; there's KLM, BA, Virgin (from the end of this month), AF, Emirates and of course, Gulf Air. Having flown GF myself within the last fortnight, I can tell you they're a pretty darn good airline and frankly, they'll knock spots off EI. Worse still, consider pax transferring to/from CX and EK at DXB. I know PTVs aren't the be all and end all, but having said that, the airlines that seem to have them are all at the top end of the market.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Sat Mar 18, 2006 4:02 am

Aer Lingus used to win awards for their service and seats but other airlines realized that we are in the 21st Century and they just put EI to shame.  Sad
 
Btriple7
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 30):
Aer Lingus used to win awards for their service and seats but other airlines realized that we are in the 21st Century and they just put EI to shame.

Very true. My family told about EI and how they offered warm washcloths to clean your hands and face back when they were a leading airline for sevice. EI can still catch up, though. All they need are some PTVs, better food service, and some well trained FAs. In big scheme of things, that won't cost much money.

Anyway, here are two more articles:
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=175896370&p=y75897x76
http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0315/aerlingus.html

Regards,
Btriple7

BTW: Happy St. Patrick's Day to everyone! This seems like appropriate thread.

[Edited 2006-03-17 22:10:45]
Just...fly.
 
sllevin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 30):
Aer Lingus used to win awards for their service and seats but other airlines realized that we are in the 21st Century and they just put EI to shame. Sad

It is sad...even up to 2002/2003 EI still had great J service that made suffering with the lousy seats worthwhile. Now that's not even the case.

If they come to SFO and have decent Premier fares I'd probably still take them, but if the price is the same as AA via ORD it'll be a tough choice.

Steve
 
Btriple7
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:32 am

Another article:
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=176234544&p=y76z35z5x

Quote:
Strikes could ground Aer Lingus flights during the peak holiday season if the Government's privatisation plans go ahead, it was warned today.
...
The union today launched a ’Keep our National Airline in Public Ownership - Say No to Privatisation’ admobile outside Leinster House.

The billboard is mounted on a flat-bed truck and will be travelling around Dublin in coming days.

SOURCE: http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/stor...35z5x

This is certainly interesting. SIPTU is obviously going to stop at nothing to block EI's privatization.

Regards,
Btriple7
Just...fly.
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 33):
The union today launched a ’Keep our National Airline in Public Ownership - Say No to Privatisation’ admobile outside Leinster House.

The billboard is mounted on a flat-bed truck and will be travelling around Dublin in coming days.

SOURCE: http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/stor...35z5x

This is certainly interesting. SIPTU is obviously going to stop at nothing to block EI's privatization.

Regards,
Btriple7

VERY bad news indeed. Should we be planning the wake?
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
EI321
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:43 am

Wait and see how this pans out....I am quite confident that a strike will be avoided. The others unions are not opposed to the IPO (so it wont be sold to another airline). I can see some sort of a deal that may include EI employees getting a larger share of the company shares to sweeten the atmosphere surrounding privitisation.

Just a note, EI will be using the A330 on the Dublin to Nice route this summer, aswell as some of the Dublin to Malaga flights.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 35):
Just a note, EI will be using the A330 on the Dublin to Nice route this summer, aswell as some of the Dublin to Malaga flights.

That's nice to hear. Such low fares and the chance to fly on an A330!
 
EI321
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:49 am

More News

B/E aerospace are exanding their operationS. The company makes seats and cabin componants for airlines like Southwest and BA.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/busi....html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 35):
I can see some sort of a deal that may include EI employees getting a larger share of the company shares to sweeten the atmosphere surrounding privitisation.

Given that they already have 14.9% from the first round of "privatization" giving them more will only make EI less and less attractive as an IPO. It's called dilution.

I still think the big issue will be that 330 million euro pension plan SIPTU is yammering about. Any work on that issue?
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:44 am

It looks like EI must really be hurting BD on the LHR-DUB route. BD are down on passengers numbers -5%. It's either low EI fares or BD must have a really bad service.  Sad
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:37 am

BD is going to hell in a handbasket; I don't know exactly what's been happening to them (although I suspect that London-based business pax are upset that the inflight service out of LHR in particular is gone low cost); they've lost a lot of the J Class pax. They seem to be losing direction generally.

Word is (according to PPRUNE) that Michael Bishop and Richard Branson are close to a deal which would see VS take over BD. Take that as you will, as it comes from a rumours forum.

Back to the dear old Shamrock fleet ...

Interesting story in today's Flight, which says that Emirates is deferring its A340-600s in favour of the enhanced model, due for delivery from 2010 and consequently, Airbus is looking for airlines to fill those production slots. Now, I'm not 100% sure if they actually want airlines to buy A340-600s (I don't see EI being a candidate!) or whether they are offering production slots, which EI (and others) could convert to whatever A330/340 variant they wish.

The A330-200/300IGW is still quite popular and I recall one airline buying two recently. Now, if Airbus is desperate (and let's face it, they are) to sell these aircraft, they could probably put a very good deal to EI involving some of these aircraft.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...uyers+for+Emirates+A340-600s+.html
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 40):
The A330-200/300IGW is still quite popular and I recall one airline buying two recently. Now, if Airbus is desperate (and let's face it, they are) to sell these aircraft, they could probably put a very good deal to EI involving some of these aircraft

I thought the same thing reading the other thread but one question was can Airbus convert the aircraft slots. The A340s were going to be delivered next year.
 
Eirules
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 29):
Incidentally, I am disappointed to note that despite a considerable lead in time to the opening of the DXB route, EI doesn't seem to have updated either of the two non-PTV A330s with new screens. So what do they do now? Put 'DAA on the DXB route; if so, what about LAX? A route of that length should have PTVs. It is really quite annoying that they are starting what they acknowledge is a new chapter in the airline's development. They've already arsed up the scheduling and now this; a little thought and forward planning would have avoided this

I wouldnt be at all surprised if when the new A330s arrive EI dont launch any new routes for a couple of months and use the new aircraft to slot in while they take their current A332s out of service to fit PTVs
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 40):
The A330-200/300IGW is still quite popular and I recall one airline buying two recently. Now, if Airbus is desperate (and let's face it, they are) to sell these aircraft, they could probably put a very good deal to EI involving some of these aircraft.

Hopefully at at good price. EI needs several more A330s and soon.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Poitin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 41):
I thought the same thing reading the other thread but one question was can Airbus convert the aircraft slots. The A340s were going to be delivered next year.

They could, if they are on the same production lines. However, that is a good question.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:27 pm

They are on the same production line, but the question is, how much of a lead-in do they need to change the production from one type to another.

I wouldn't want to be in Airbus's sales team at the moment; they must be rather depressed about the way things are going.

I think EI will have to withdraw its 332s at some stage to get the new IFE installed, but they'll probably wait for a C (or even D) check before doing this; the first two 332s were delivered in April 1999 and May 2000, so they will probably be having their first D checks pretty soon (the first usually happens after 7 years - assuming the same rules apply as for Boeings, which may not necessarily be the case).

The minister said, when the latest order was announced, that he looked forward to many similar announcements soon, so we should be seeing some announcements in the near future.

Airbus is also talking about a new high gross weight version of the A350-900, but I don't think even that is going to make up the difference between it and the 787-10.

As far as EI is concerned, the main concern is not so much aircraft performance, but the regulatory issues. As soon as it is clear about these, the sooner it can move. Clearly, the last thing it wants to do is to get expensive new aircraft and not be able to use them.
 
sllevin
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:48 pm

Has anyone at EI actually talked about installing PTV's fleetwide?

I'd be concerned about the weight penalty on the 332's, which are not the highest gross weight versions to start.

I think they'd be best suited upgrading Premier, which is, by today's standards, pretty dated, especially for the 10 hour flights to west coast.

Steve
 
Eirjet
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:28 pm

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 30):
Aer Lingus used to win awards for their service and seats but other airlines realized that we are in the 21st Century and they just put EI to shame.

Most of EI awards are from times when government owned companies spent, spent and spent some more. At one stage the Minister for Transport was fondly knowned as the Monister for Aer Lingus - They also charged you a nice figure to get your bum in the seat - There was not the competition that there is now-a-days.

Aer Lingus in my opinion is a perfect case study of why Civil Servants are incapable of managing a service/ company.

Eirjet
Aviation has a 100% record, we've never left one up there......
 
EI321
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:45 pm

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 46):
Sllevin

True, EI went for the low thrust option on their A330s. An IFE system would be a bigger problem for the A333s. Presonally I dont think the current 333s need it that much. Airlines like Lufthansa & Iberia dont have them and still fill their planes. If the ROI was worth it it would have been done by now IMO.
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish Aviation Thread - Part II

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:09 pm

True, Lufthansa and IB don't have them, but most airlines out of the UK do and you have to look at what the competition is doing. It's far easier for a small airline to roll this kind of innovation across its fleet (and I think it makes it all the more disappointing that EI hasn't done it), but what I think is more important is that you anticipate developments in the market. Do airlines need PTVs? Do pax need them? No, not really, BUT if Airline X has them and Y doesn't, it will make a difference to their attractiveness AND to the fares they can command.

If you go to sites like Expedia and other travel sites, you'll see that the cheapest fares from London to Asia are with airlines which haven't really invested in PTVs, while the likes of EK, SQ and CX can command the highest fares. Now, if you can do as EK does and combine that with a higher seat density (such as EK's 10 abreast) , you can have a good service product which commands a good fare. You have a product which is relatively cheap to offer (and with a good IFE system, can be a revenue earner - as on Jet Blue), but with a service product which is also attractive to a pax who is willing to pay £7-800 for a ticket, not just the backpacker.

On the other hand, if you have a very basic product, without much thought or investment, you might as well go for the highest possible density, because you may get the backpacker, but even the pax with a higher budget isn't going to be willing to pay the going rate for your product; they'll be saying "for £800, I'll fly Cathay or SIA, not (cheapie airline)".

Remember, a low cost, long haul airline doesn't have to be cheap; it has to be stylish and it has to have flair.

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