Dougloid
Topic Author
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A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:08 am

Just looking on this and I found what looked like an interesting article on Flight International this morning, only to find that it had been blocked from access by a robot.txt file. This I found out by plugging the url into the Wayback Machine.

The two lines in the google search say it's 11 days away and they will test for 750 passengers.

Anyone got any fresh information on this?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
leelaw
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:18 am

They're probably updating the website, it may pop up in the next couple of hours.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Air380
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:54 pm

The A 380 emergency evacuation is scheduled for this weekend with over 800 people according to a German magazine, "Focus".
 
leelaw
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:15 pm

This has topic has been extensively discussed in a couple of recent threads:

< A380 Evacuation Test - 26th March (by Scbriml Feb 20 2006 in Civil Aviation)>

< A380 Evac Trials Next Week (by Finkenwerder Feb 25 2006 in Civil Aviation)>


AFAIK, the item Dougloid found earlier this week has not yet appeared on FI's website. The best avaiable information seems to be that the emergency evacuation test will take place at XFW using MSN007 with a specially outfitted cabin seating 853 passengers on or about March 26th.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Markhkg
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:43 pm

Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
heisan67
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:00 pm

Interesting reading the German article. 7 meters slide from the upper deck to the ground is pretty high. Looking forward reading how this test went.
 
leelaw
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:04 pm

(Dow Jones 03/18/06) PARIS -- Airbus plans on March 26 to conduct one of the key certification tests for its giant A380 jetliner: evacuating as many as 873 people in total darkness through half the plane's 16 doors within 90 seconds.

The test, to take place in a hangar at Airbus's factory in Hamburg, Germany, will be overseen by officials of the European Aviation Safety Agency, which is handling the A380's certification to carry passengers. Officials of the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration also will observe.

The test results may not be known for several days, Airbus spokeswoman Barbara Kracht said. EASA and FAA officials will want to examine infrared video taken during the test and analyze results of the drill. If the test needs to be interrupted, canceled or repeated, Airbus has lined up a second group to rerun the evacuation one week later, another Airbus spokesman said.

The test is critical because it will determine the number of passengers legally allowed to fly on the A380. The plane is designed to carry at most 853 passengers and 20 crew. Airbus wants to get at least 650 passengers off the plane in the test, because that is the largest number of seats now planned for the A380 by any of its current customers [Emirates]. "We are happy with anything above that," said Ms. Kracht...
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
wjcandee
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:34 pm

Shall we start a pool on how many folks suffer "serious" injuries (defined as a broken bone or worse) in this heinous exercise? ("Heinous" because it's so far from realistic as to be laughable. 90 seconds is how fast flashover is likely to occur, so that's a realistic standard -- after flashover, you're basically dead unless you have an Evac-U-8 with you. But how fast trained, motivated, primed volunteers who know the emergency is coming can get out is completely irrelevant. Fill the thing up with 850 young-and-old people, including elderly, lap children, women with stilletto heels, businessmen with "important" papers in their attache cases, who think they're on for a harmless, free hourlong flight with baggage, and who pay attention to safety briefings as carefully as most people usually do, then stop the plane on the tarmac, start pumping fake smoke in and annouce that there's a bomb about to go off. Then I'll believe the 90-second results.)

Few of the volunteers for these things realize that folks have in the past suffered debilitating spinal injuries and worse. Like those poor folks who were injured in that European drug trial earlier this week, folks (sadly including employees of the vendor and their families) would never accept the task if they understood the true risks; they don't believe that it could/would happen to them, and of course it can and always does. A one-in-800 chance of a spinal injury doesn't really appeal to me personally.
 
ua777222
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:38 pm

Was this test not already made? Or do the slides need to be tested on the actual aircraft as well before certification can be made? Correct me if I am wrong but was there not a special on The Discovery Channel regarding the A380 in which the slide manufature was showcased?

Best.

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
Finkenwerder
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:44 pm

Here's a video I uploaded and posted earlier...you can see the slide height for the lower deck quite clearly.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1656146172891517456

Please note this was an early test and does not represent the current state of the escape system.
 
ua777222
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:50 pm

The door sort of stuck on that video. For those who want to know how the door works please see this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3286325412142013280

Best.

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
leelaw
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:51 pm

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 8):
Was this test not already made

In short, no. Check-out the other threads linked above and the numerous articles linked therein.

There was an excellent article in the WSJ about the evacuation testing process about a year ago (unfortunately this is a pay site):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1111...485717.html?mod=article-outset-box

[Edited 2006-03-19 09:17:00]
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
leelaw
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 9):
Please note this was an early test and does not represent the current state of the escape system.

It took the technician approximately 15 seconds to open the door and deploy the slide, does this count against the 90 seconds?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Markhkg
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:44 pm

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 8):
Correct me if I am wrong but was there not a special on The Discovery Channel regarding the A380 in which the slide manufature was showcased?

Yes, there was a special that featured the testing of the overwing exit at the Goodrich Aircraft Interior Products division. The slides have also been tested for its use as slide/rafts, among other things. What has not yet occured is the evacuation certification which is the key to determining how many people the A380 will be allowed to carry.



Quoting Leelaw (Reply 12):

It took the technician approximately 15 seconds to open the door and deploy the slide, does this count against the 90 seconds?

Well, the technician appears to have simply opened the handle and let the power-assist open the door. During the evacuation certification, actual cabin crew will be used and they are trained to push the door completely open if it somehow jams so you wouldn't see a delay that long.

(But you're right: if the door does unintentionally jam and fail to completely open, that would disrupt the certification procedure...)
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
ua777222
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:45 pm

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 13):

Yes, there was a special that featured the testing of the overwing exit at the Goodrich Aircraft Interior Products division. The slides have also been tested for its use as slide/rafts, among other things. What has not yet occured is the evacuation certification which is the key to determining how many people the A380 will be allowed to carry.

So it's the actual aircraft that needs to be tested not the actual slides, correct?

Thanks for the clarifacation.

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
SCEagle
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:46 pm

Wonder if they'll have anyone who's on the upper deck who's afraid of heights. If they flat out f-r-e-e-z-e... do they get pushed out? Sounds like a way to get injured. Injury vs. death is one thing if plane is on fire, but during a test? Not worth it.
 
SCEagle
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:50 pm

About motivation... I was watching a video of the tests of the 777 and wondered... do they give financial incentives to duplicate the inevitable pushing and shoving that would come from panicked people desperate for their lives to get out of an aircraft?
 
leelaw
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:55 pm

Quoting SCEagle (Reply 16):
do they give financial incentives to duplicate the inevitable pushing and shoving that would come from panicked people desperate for their lives to get out of an aircraft?

From the WSJ article linked above:

"...One of the people who pushed for greater reality was Helen Muir, a professor of aerospace psychology at England's Cranfield University. Standing in her office she flipped on a videotape of a traditional evacuation test. The crowd looked rushed but orderly. Then she popped in footage of a test in which several people frantically try to squeeze into an escape hatch at once. The difference: Participants in the second test were offered a £5 note for being among the first to leave the airplane.

"Horrific, isn't it? And this is just for five pounds," says Prof. Muir. "Put a little smoke in the cabin and you think you're going to die..."
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Skydrol
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:59 pm

Does anyone know what are the minimum wind requirements for the test? Obviously wind direction and velocity can play a role in how effective the evacuation slides are in remaining stable, especially the upper deck slides.



LD4
∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
 
leelaw
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:05 pm

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 18):
Does anyone know what are the minimum wind requirements for the test? Obviously wind direction and velocity can play a role in how effective the evacuation slides are in remaining stable, especially the upper deck slides.



Quoting Leelaw (Reply 6):
The test, to take place in a hangar at Airbus's factory in Hamburg, Germany,

Is Airbus required to simulate certain wind conditions in the test hangar?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Markhkg
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 6:23 pm

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 14):
So it's the actual aircraft that needs to be tested not the actual slides, correct?

That's correct.

Quoting SCEagle (Reply 15):
Wonder if they'll have anyone who's on the upper deck who's afraid of heights.

If someone could baulk at going down a 777 slide (which happened during its evacuation certification with UA) you can sure as heck bet some people are going to hesitate on a double-decker a/c!!!

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 17):
From the WSJ article linked above:

Although Crainfield University does add a financial bonus to increase competitiveness, I don't actually know if they are doing the same with the Airbus testing.

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 18):
Does anyone know what are the minimum wind requirements for the test? Obviously wind direction and velocity can play a role in how effective the evacuation slides are in remaining stable, especially the upper deck slides.

The evacuation certification does not involve the use of wind. Evacuation certification takes place in a dark hanger (i.e. without light other than emergency lights) , but rain and wind are not simulated. The slides, however, are meant to resist 25-knot horizontal winds.
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
Finkenwerder
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:36 pm

Quoting UA777222 (Reply 10):
The door sort of stuck on that video. For those who want to know how the door works please see this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3286325412142013280

Best.

Matt

If you click the "more from this user" link on the video page you will see all the videos I have uploaded to Google.
 
Alessandro
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:50 pm

I´ve seen the test the US manufacturer did with the slides for the A380, shown on Discovery channel. So now it´s all about re-doing it with the A380,
Airbus has contacted local athletic clubs for volunteers, so it´s hardly the average person that do those tests.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
Finkenwerder
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:50 pm

Particularly for LeeLaw

It took me rather less than 90 seconds to find the correct FAR manual....I'm somewhat suprised your not familiar with the FAA site....might save you a lot of time !

90 seconds from the signal to evacuate...

www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiner...rs/8400/media/volume3/3_010_01.pdf

You will find all the inspectors handbooks here..

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiners_inspectors/8400/

[Edited 2006-03-19 12:59:28]
 
Markhkg
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:31 pm

Finkenwerder, thanks for uploading the videos. I always like seeing slide deployments, especially when it's not an emergency. Big grin
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
leelaw
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:09 pm

Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 23):
I'm somewhat suprised your not familiar with the FAA site....might save you a lot of time!

Excuse my laziness and thanx for providing the information. I sense you're annoyed with me and I'm not sure why?
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Finkenwerder
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:28 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 25):
I sense you're annoyed with me and I'm not sure why?

Not in the slightest.....perhaps my over zealous punctuation gave the wrong impression !!!!

[Edited 2006-03-19 14:29:47]
 
ltbewr
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:34 pm

Last August we saw at Toronto's airport a real life emergency evacuation of an fairly full A340 with no deaths or serious injuries after running off the end of the runway and with fire and smoke during it. What will be critical in these tests is how these people doing the test react to the 7 meter/21 feet drop on the upper deck slides and how the F/A's act to keep an orderly evacuation of the a/c. I do hope they are successful in achieving the goal of getting over 650 people off in the a/c under 90 seconds and without serious injuries.
Does Airbus have to do further tests for the critical numbers where certain exits are blocked or where the slides don't work and more people are crammed into the remaining exits?
 
Markhkg
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 27):
critical numbers where certain exits are blocked or where the slides don't work and more people are crammed into the remaining exits

Half the exits are already blocked for the evacuation certification...it is up to the cabin crew to ensure that bottlenecks are resolved by sending passengers to dried up exits .
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
RichardPrice
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:53 pm

Just to add something else into the mix - in the typical 3 class cabin layout of 555 that most airlines seem to be using, the upper deck holds roughly 33% less passengers than the lower deck. Its not a straight 50/50 split. I would assume much the same ratio holds for the maximum capacity that Airbus are testing for.

That should have some effect on the result.
 
jacobin777
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 20):

Although Crainfield University does add a financial bonus to increase competitiveness, I don't actually know if they are doing the same with the Airbus testing.

no..they won't be, there is too much of a risk of injuries
"Up the Irons!"
 
Dougloid
Topic Author
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:02 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 12):
Quoting Finkenwerder (Reply 9):
Please note this was an early test and does not represent the current state of the escape system.


It took the technician approximately 15 seconds to open the door and deploy the slide, does this count against the 90 seconds?

According to the information I'm getting it has been decided by regulators that the slides will be predeployed. The doors will be closed and the volunteers will not know which doors are to be used.

This will give the A380 about an 8-10 second freebie because that was about what it took to blow a door and deploy a slide on an MD11.

The emergency procedure was thus: The regular door opening mechanism was via an electric drive motor. On opening the door translated in and retracted into the overhead via a system of cables and pulleys. The emergency opening was powered by a powerful pneumatic motor that was supplied with pressurized nitrogen from a flask. (little pressure gauges overhead). When the system was armed and the handle was thrown, the door WAS going to open and damned quick. At the same time the girt bar stayed in place and started the slide deploy/inflate process.
the entire procedure of blowing the door and slide deployment to full inflation took about 8-10 seconds.
According to one article I read Airbus uses an electric door and has sourced large capacitors to power the emergency function. How fast the doors open and the slide deploys is unknown.

However. A test with the slides already deployed does not represent a real world scenario.

One thing that is apparent is that on the doors that are used by Boeing and Airbus they are locked by pins that go into the structure. That could cause issues with any sort of structural deformation, which was not an issue with the free floating passenger doors used on the DC10 and MD11.

You might ask-why is this of interest to me?

Simply I was the only inspector on my shift that had MD11 door inspection certification.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
RichardPrice
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:31 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 31):
However. A test with the slides already deployed does not represent a real world scenario.

None of this is real world testing, absolutely none of it. There isnt any fire, there isnt any smoke, there isnt a pool of potentially explosive jetfuel at the bottom of the slides, they havent dropped an aircraft into the middle of an ocean with a force 10 gale blowing, the engines wont be running, there wont be other things going on nearby at the time, the passengers wont all be suffering from DVT from being enclosed in cattle class for 13 hours, infact *all* the passengers know *exactly* whats about to occur.

So stop thinking that any testing undergone by an aircraft during its testing phase is anywhere near a 'read world scenario'. It isnt. Its a test to pass a certification level.


Not having a go at you personally Dougloid, but this constantly comes up - its not meant to be a real world scenario.
 
wjcandee
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 32):
So stop thinking that any testing undergone by an aircraft during its testing phase is anywhere near a 'read world scenario'.

Well, before you tear this respected, experienced poster's head off, you might recognize that the "real world" comment is his *subsidiary* point. His primary point is that the A380 is for all intents and purposes getting an ADDITIONAL 8-10 seconds (a "head start") because of the predeployment of the slides. His comment about the importance of the predeployment is that in the real world the slide deployment slows things down; therefore, he argues, it's a legitimate concern.

You are making his point: if there's no real-world correlation to these tests, then it's a flat out race under controlled circumstances, and the slide predeployment is giving Airbus another ten seconds of bodies to cram in the plane that won't be getting off in an actual accident.

When the thing catches fire is when people have 90 seconds to get out or die. So it's a fair bet that 10 additional seconds of people will likely die in the A380 because of they way they are goosing this test. Thanks, Regulators!! Nice to see that you're all the way under the covers with the manufacturer!
 
Poitin
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 33):
Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 32):
So stop thinking that any testing undergone by an aircraft during its testing phase is anywhere near a 'read world scenario'.

Well, before you tear this respected, experienced poster's head off, you might recognize that the "real world" comment is his *subsidiary* point. His primary point is that the A380 is for all intents and purposes getting an ADDITIONAL 8-10 seconds (a "head start") because of the predeployment of the slides. His comment about the importance of the predeployment is that in the real world the slide deployment slows things down; therefore, he argues, it's a legitimate concern.

Having gone down the slide of a DC-10 many years ago, RichardPrice is absolutely right, this test has no relationship to reality. What we have is a test, an arbitrary test, designed to look sorta - kinda like the real thing. However we are dealing with a situation in which hundreds of people can be hurt seriously. So making damn sure the slides are safe BEFORE the test makes lots and lots of sense. And remember, it is 7 meters from the second deck to the ground. The fall could kill you if the slides doen't work properly

If you want a real test, try adding 5% drunks, 3% mothers with real babies, set the wing on fire and set a couple smoke grenades off on each level of the airplane. Then do as University of Cranfield did and give the first 30 people out of the airplane a 5 pound note (or was it 10?).

The test is difficult and perhaps the most important one facing the A380. I wish Airbus and all those aboard the test plane next Sunday the best. I hope and pray all goes well.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
RichardPrice
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 33):

If you reread my post, you will see that I do say that that wasnt a personal attack against Dougloid, but against a subject that comes up often. The regulators set out what needs to be accomplished, and if you have an issue with anything they require you are welcome to take them to court over it instead of making snide comments.

In the testing of the overwing slides that was shown on the Airbus A380 expose on the Discovery Channel about a year ago, they showed the slide being deployed before the testing commences, and it deployed in less than 3 seconds from what I recall. It was very very quick, and the same slide was used for hours afterward (I think they are filled as standard with a solid foam rather than gas).
 
474218
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:15 am

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 22):
Airbus has contacted local athletic clubs for volunteers, so it´s hardly the average person that do those tests.

I this is true the test will be invalid as the FAR's provide the exact cross section for the volunteers required, age, sex, etc.
 
Poitin
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 36):
Quoting Alessandro (Reply 22):
Airbus has contacted local athletic clubs for volunteers, so it´s hardly the average person that do those tests.

I this is true the test will be invalid as the FAR's provide the exact cross section for the volunteers required, age, sex, etc.

While where they may recuit their volunteers anywhere, the mix of ages and sexs is called out in the specs, along with 3 dolls (in lieu of real babies) blankets and such.

However, you are right that you will not find the average passenger: No drunks, no little old ladies with canes, etc.

However, it is the set of rules everyone must live by.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
leelaw
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:30 am

Here's the FI article Dougloid was looking for last week, finally came online today:

Airbus is to undertake the full-scale evacuation test of the A380 on 26 March, and is confident that it will be able to demonstrate that it can show the safe egress of more than 750 passengers, having set itself a maximum target of 853. The manufacturer is prepared to repeat the exercise a week later if the figure is significantly lower than its forecast minimum, or if it has to abort the test for any reason.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...poised+for+crucial+exit+trial.html
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
Poitin
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 38):
and is confident that it will be able to demonstrate that it can show the safe egress of more than 750 passengers, having set itself a maximum target of 853.

Oh, that is not quite what they were saying a few months ago, is it? Maybe reality arrived in Toulouse. They have really changed their tune a bit.

The article goes on to say:

“If it is below 650 we will definitely have to do it again. But we are confident of it being above 750,” says A380 safety director Francis Guimera.

My, my, what will the LLCs say about that?

The article is quite factual, and worth the read.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Dougloid
Topic Author
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 32):
So stop thinking that any testing undergone by an aircraft during its testing phase is anywhere near a 'read world scenario'. It isnt. Its a test to pass a certification level.


Not having a go at you personally Dougloid, but this constantly comes up - its not meant to be a real world scenario.

Not a problem no offense taken. I realize it is not a real world simulated emergency landing test.

Nonetheless, from the time the starter's pistol fires to the time the door is open and the slide is ready to receive a passenger is about 7-8 seconds, a good part of which represents a bonus on the test to the airbus people-it makes it that much easier for them to meet the same objective as others, because the starting line shifted.

If you figure that they're using 8 doors and they're pushing a passenger every second, they're getting spotted no less than 56 souls toward the certification target.

Look. In a simulation, nobody gets hurt for the most part. They're no fire or smoke. On the other hand, what it DOES represent is the fact that the people will not be able to clear the aircraft as fast in an emergency as they could in the test, all other things being equal.

Now. The real question that people ought to be asking themselves is why they don't think they're going to make 853.

Make no mistake, this is a major milestone here.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
User avatar
Crosswind
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:23 am

Dougloid,
No offence but I don't think you've understood how the A380's escape-slide system works on the upper deck.

Unlike the main-deck doors, the uppder-deck escape-slides are not stored within the door but in a completely separate compartment underneath the door, with a separate opening. The same method of stowing the slides is used on the A321 at doors 2 and 3.

This method of storing the slides frees up space in the cabin, and due to the length of the slides the bustle on the upper-deck doors of the A380 would be very large and also add a lot of weight to the door which would make them more difficult to operate.

In the photos below you can clearly see the slide compartment underneath each of the upper-deck doors;

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On a main-deck door of the A380 (and virtually every other type) the door has to open, which then pulls the slide from the bustle allowing it to fall and then deploy - so the slide will only deploy once the door is open.
See Finkenwerder's link to an early main-deck A380 slide test here

On the upper-deck of the A380 when a door is opened the slide deploys simultaneously with the movement of the operating handle to open the door - the slide is already deploying before the door has even started to open and the slide is ready to use by the time the door is open.

For the A380's evacuation test the upper-deck slides will be pre-deployed to avoid the very dangerous situation where the exit door opens but the slide fails to deploy - in that situation you have an open door with nothing beneath it, and hundreds of people pushing to get out. Pre-deploying the upper-deck slides makes it safer for those participating in the test.

Both the FAA/JAA have agreed that pre-deploying the upper deck slides gives the A380 gives no advantage because of time time taken to open the doors. Since the slide deploys simultaneously with the opening of the door, the slide would be ready by the time the door is opened in any case, unlike on the main deck where the door has to open before the slide can deploy.

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 39):
My, my, what will the LLCs say about that?

Which ones?


PH
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Markhkg
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:38 am

Quoting Crosswind (Reply 41):
This method of storing the slides frees up space in the cabin, and due to the length of the slides the bustle on the upper-deck doors of the A380 would be very large and also add a lot of weight to the door which would make them more difficult to operate.

On a totally random note, check out this slide deployment from what I think is an A321 (since it comes out of the fusalage rather than a door bustle).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=62d-_al5bCI

These doors (unlike ones with a door bustle) actually have a "hesitation" delay built into the opening system. Supposedly you can open the A321 emergency door, walk over to the other side and open the other door as well, and then cross back over to see if the first slide deployed okay. Interesting feature, particularly since some carriers only have one f/a stationed between these emergency doors.

Haha, I love watching slide deployments!  Smile (Particularly when it's not an emergency...)
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Desh
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:45 am

Just for my knowledge - In a real life situation like YYZ a few months back , does the captian / crew wait till the engines are sufficiently reved down or shut off ? I mean walking in front of a A340 engine is bad enough but the A380 seems to have enough size and muscle to suck up a minivan ..... also what about the jet blast behind the engine ?
"History is merely a list of surprises. It can only prepare us to be surprised yet again." - Kurt Vonnegut
 
baw716
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:48 am

Wjcandjee makes a point. There had better be a lot of medical staff ready to assist with passenger injuries, because there WILL be some; likely broken ankles coming down from slides on the upper deck; burns from putting hands down on the slides, any head first jumps from the slides...well that can be fatal.

There has never been a test of an evacuation with more than 555 passengers (to my knowledge), the 747SR is certified to around 555 pax (I think). To get 800 pax out using only 1/2 of the slides (which is the certification requirement) is going to be messy. It would not be the way I would do the exercise.

I would do three progressive tests: one at 500, one at 650 and one at 800. At 500, there shouldn't be too many injuries (although I think sliding from the upper deck will result in foot or ankle injury; it is simply too far to slide building up too much speed on impact). It is important to know that with fewer passengers so that when attempting it with a larger number, modifications can be made to mitigate the number of passenger injuries.

Evacuating an aircraft in 90 seconds is tricky business, even in a test. There will be injuries. What will be interesting to note is the kind of injuries. If people break their ankles, feet or jam their knees on impact with the ground after jumping off the slide from the upper deck, it will be very hard to get them away from the aircraft in a real emergency, in which time is EVERYTHING.

The 747-400 has the same issue, evacuating from the top deck, however, there are far fewer pax upstairs, so if there are injuries, the likelihood that other people can get them away from the aircraft in case of injury are much higher. The A380 (with about 40% of its passengers upstairs) will be a different story.

This will be an important safety test for the A380. If they can't get everyone out in 90 seconds with 1/2 the slides operating, they will only get FAA certification for the actual number of passengers they get out in 90 seconds. If I am not mistaken, they get three attempts at that initially, then they are stuck with it for a year, at which point they can test again and hopefully raise that number. The very high risk for Airbus is if they can't get even 500 people out within 90 seconds after three attempts, this would be a disaster for them, since the entire idea of the aircraft is to carry over 500 passengers.

Let's see how it plays out, and then I am sure we will have quite a lively discussion.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
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Crosswind
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:53 am

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 43):
On a totally random note, check out this slide deployment from what I think is an A321 (since it comes out of the fusalage rather than a door bustle).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=62d-_al5bCI

These doors (unlike ones with a door bustle) actually have a "hesitation" delay built into the opening system.

Thanks for posting that video of the A321 door 2 slide - it's the same system that has been applided to the A380 upper-deck doors. The video clearly shows that the slide starts to deploy as soon as the operating handle is moved - and the slide is ready to use before the door has fully opened...

Hopefully that will put to rest claims that Airbus is somehow "cheating" by pre-deploying the upper-deck slides!

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
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zeke
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting BAW716 (Reply 45):
The 747-400 has the same issue, evacuating from the top deck, however, there are far fewer pax upstairs, so if there are injuries, the likelihood that other people can get them away from the aircraft in case of injury are much higher. The A380 (with about 40% of its passengers upstairs) will be a different story.

Dont think Boeing ever did upper deck slide tests on he 747, the original test people went via the internal staircase to the lower deck. From memory the 743/744 capacity increases were done on paper not by test.
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Poitin
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:57 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 42):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 39):
My, my, what will the LLCs say about that?

Which ones?

Well, since you have EK business plan, perhaps you can tell us. Big grin
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Poitin
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RE: A380 Emergency Evacuation Test Story

Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:03 am

When you see statements like:

“If it is below 650 we will definitely have to do it again. But we are confident of it being above 750,” says A380 safety director Francis Guimera.

You got to wonder if this is spin control because they know something they aren't ready to explain yet. A lot of hype went into the 853 Pax A380 over the last several years, and maybe next week that number may be as low as 650.

Keesje what's your spin -- I mean -- take on this? I am really looking forward to reading it! Oh, I can hardly wait!  bouncy 
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