scalebuilder
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:32 pm

What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:07 pm

How do airlines deal with this?

Does anyone know if this happens? I can't imagine that it has not in the history of flight.

Do crew members have a choice of whom they want to work with on specific flights? Cabin or cockpit?

Any historical consequences worth any mention resulting from personal differences among cabin or cockpit crew?

[Edited 2006-03-16 04:28:08]

[Edited 2006-03-16 04:31:53]
Go the extra mile......and avoid the traffic!!!
 
S5FA170
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:04 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:33 pm

I know at my airline, we are asked this specific question in our interview (at least in Flight Attendant interviews). And as a Flight Attendant, and a professional, we are expected to be able to work with many kinds of people everyday. Obviously, we won't get along with everyone. And we won't become best friends with the majority of our coworkers. However, we are expected to show up for work everyday and keep our personal problems and conflicts with fellow employees out of the cabin.

At the end of the day, their are only two flight attendants on my airplane. So if I really have a problem with someone, I can stay in my galley when I'm not needed in the cabin and they can stay in their's. What the airline wants to know is that it won't affect passenger safety. And if you have any kind of maturity - it shouldn't.

Yes their are instances of flight attendant's not getting along. Just a few months ago a Mesaba ARJ returned to Memphis (I believe it was MEM) after the flight attendant's got in a fight in the cabin. This is an extreme case! But it does happen. Some days, the passengers get on your nerves and the last thing you need is a fellow flight attendant doing the same! Oh well, life is crazy.

As for avoiding people - at my airline, when you bid, you can bid to "Avoid" certain employee numbers. As long as they are senior to you, you can bid to avoid them, or work with them.

-Tony
Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
 
rdynyc
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 8:55 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:02 pm

In 1986 United Airlines acquired Pan Am's Pacific routes and some Pan Am cabin crew. The initial transition was very stressful and harbored much animosity between both airline employees. There was a situation I recall where an ex Pan Am flight attendant and a United flight attendant practically got into a pushing and shoving brawl in the F/C cabin of a 747. The news "flew" around the system immediately...
 
scalebuilder
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:32 pm

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting RDYNYC (Reply 2):
The news "flew" around the system immediately...

Any link available out there to what actually happened that would give me the full story?

Thanks!

Scalebuilder
Go the extra mile......and avoid the traffic!!!
 
Broocy
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:58 pm

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:13 pm

Quoting Scalebuilder (Thread starter):
What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thank your lucky stars that you work in an airline that allows you to work with a variety of people. Even if you are on a long international posting, you can still get time apart from each other. In a land based job you may have to work with someone you don't get along with day in and day out. That can be a cause of real, on-going stress in the work place.

I've never worked as crew, but the mix'n'match nature of the people you get to work with actually seems like a big positive to me.

That said, I can understand why crew can butt heads from time to time. After all the confined spaces and tiring work can tax even the most professional of people.
 
MidnightMike
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:07 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:17 pm

Quoting Scalebuilder (Thread starter):
How do airlines deal with this?

Does anyone know if this happens? I can't imagine that it has not in the history of flight.

Do crew members have a choice of whom they want to work with on specific flights? Cabin or cockpit?

Any historical consequences worth any mention resulting from personal differences among cabin or cockpit crew?

Since CRM has been adapted, these thing do not happen very often in the airlines as the crews are taught to work with each other. Some airlines have a no-fly list, but, the majority of the crews have no problems with flying with most of their co-workers.
NO URLS in signature
 
scalebuilder
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:32 pm

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting Broocy (Reply 4):
Thank your lucky stars that you work in an airline that allows you to work with a variety of people.

I do not work for an airline. However, I do work in an office environment with enough people that conflict will arise from time to time. People can go home......or I can if necessary. But during flight wheather in the cockpit or in the cabin....well where do you go if you're ticked off?
Go the extra mile......and avoid the traffic!!!
 
CRGsFuture
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:04 pm

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:31 pm

Well as a future pilot first thing I was taught at a camp last year was that you don't talk small till 10,000 on an aircraft as per FAA requirement. I worked well with my "pilot" but we had to do it as a team, if we don't were screwing the passengers we are supposed to protect for the 800+ nautical mile journey.

If I don't like the person I still have to work with them so if it coms to worse case scenario don't talk till need to, or make sure you get the ATC guy. Most of the time though pilots normally are good at getting along with other pilots for the most part.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:20 pm

In another life I was a F/A for NY. We flew 28 day lines with the same cabin and flight deck crews. Of all the lines I flew, there was only one were I did not get along with the other two F/A's.

It so happend that it was an all male cabin crew, and the other two 'boys' were fighting between themselves for the entire first two trips. I was the senior and just trip traded and worked with crew scheudling to get off that line and work other trips.

It was a pain, I lost senior pay for the rest of the month, but I know that I was happier and able to do a better job, and those two didn't last long at NY.

As far as issues with the Flight Deck, never had a problem.

I think most current and former F/A's will agree, that we are/where a unique group and were hired for our ability to get along.
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
faenum
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:17 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:29 am

Teamwork on the flight deck was not always a priority. On 27 Apr 1964, at Kilwa in East Africa, poor relations between flight crew probably contributed to a fatal accident. Read the F/O's account here,

http://mccrow.org.uk/EastAfrica/East_Arican_Airways/Tommyaccount.htm
 
scalebuilder
Posts: 605
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:32 pm

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting Faenum (Reply 9):
Teamwork on the flight deck was not always a priority. On 27 Apr 1964, at Kilwa in East Africa, poor relations between flight crew probably contributed to a fatal accident. Read the F/O's account here,

Really interesting story. Thanks for the link  Wink .
Go the extra mile......and avoid the traffic!!!
 
vincewy
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 8:32 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:42 pm

A few years ago there was an incident at TK, hear this, 2 pilots (A340 between JFK-IST) that couldn't get along, it was so bad that it ended up in fist fight in the cockpit during the flight. Perhaps some Turkish member can clarify this, at the end both pilots were fined/suspended for passenger endangerment.

This is not unique to airlines industry, it happens to professional sports, quite often there're brawls behind the locker rooms that we've never heard of, quite contrary to the concept of team work.
 
scxmechanic
Posts: 479
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 1999 10:20 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:53 pm

A few airlines I have worked at in the past had "No Fly Lists" where if you didn't care to work with someone you just added them to your list and scheduling wouldn't pair you up with them.
 
mbg
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:18 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Vincewy (Reply 11):

There was such an incident in a TK A343 that made its way to the headlines, perhaps in the late 90s. That flight originated from somewhere in South East Asia, could have been BKK and was heading to IST. If I'm not mistaken, both the captain and F/O had a military background, the F/O retiring later from the military with a higher rank. Apparently, he couldn't adjust to the new civil environment too well, at least that's what the articles said.

I have no insider info, just read it from the tabloids, so maybe some TK employees can correct me if any of the above is incorrect.

Cheers,

mbg
 
bennett123
Posts: 7426
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:35 am

My understanding is that this was a factor in the Staines Trident disaster as well.

There was a belief that a dispute at BEA resulted in very bad feeling and that this led to some form of heart attack in the Captain soon after take off.
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:41 am

Unless you have a serious safety concern about someone you cannot refuse to fly with them just because you have a personality conflict. I'm fortunate to work on a plane with 8 other FA's if you don't mesh with one it's not that big of a deal. It's also important to realize that we generally don't fly with the same people for longer than a month and then you might not see them again for a long time. It's easier to put up with a crew conflict when you realize it is only short term.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:18 am

Assuming the topic is "Flightcrew" as in "pilots" (versus cabin crew), I seem to vaguely recall an America West flight coming out of Phoenix in the last 5 years or so where the PIC and F/O got into some kind of disagreement during takeoff/climbout (probably had roots before that), and they diverted to TUS.

It made the papers and TV news, but I'll be darned if I can ever recall hearing what the fracas was all about...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Type-Rated
Posts: 3901
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 1999 5:18 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sun Mar 19, 2006 12:25 pm

Sometimes if a crewmember is considered "strange" by their peers they may have difficulty with having others want to work with them. Usually it's not flying skills, but things like hygiene, manners, personal habits or they may just be a non stop chatterbox.
If you get one of these characters, you can always ask for a swap/change with someone else. After awhile if management notices that a crewmember has a large number of swaps with other crews they are working with, they will investigate and take corrective action if needed.
I personally know of a guy at CO that nobody likes to fly with because he obsesses about magazines and newspapers. He won't read one of these that has already been "fondled" by others, and he won't let others read his reading material until he's done with it. And even then he obsesses about someone creasing a page or putting a "dog ear" on one of the pages. During the flight he even discusses who has "fondled" his reading material on previous flights.
Does it affect his flying skill, no. But it does drive others nuts!
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting Scalebuilder (Thread starter):
differences among cabin or cockpit crew?

The original post said cabin or cockpit.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:29 pm

I would be very concerned as a passanger if the level of flight crew not being able to get along is so that it affects service and safety. One has to wonder how the major cuts in and declining pay and benefits of airlne employees aggrevates personality and other personal problems and how they getting along during a flight. I would also suggest that seniority is less respected by many younger employees now, causing potential problems.
As to cockpit crew, I would suggest that with more careful screening of applicants, the development of Cockpit Resource Management and fewer pilots comming from the ranks of military pilots, you have a lot less of the ego driven or 'god complex' issues by airlines all over the world and that you have far less problems of unprofessional beheavor.
As to F/A's, the cuts in pay and benefits, being made to work more hours/flights, work for more years than they wanted, increasingly disgruntled pax who no longer get food or beverages for free or at all, probably aggrevates personality conflicts. I would hope that initial and ongoing training of f/a's including conflict management would help reduce the potential service and safety risks from conflicts.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting Mbg (Reply 13):
Apparently, he couldn't adjust to the new civil environment too well, at least that's what the articles said.

thankfully we now have CRM and MCC courses available to crews, and most of the so called dictator captains have been weeded out, i very much like that now at Turkish the F/O can file a report and actually be heard out in any offense and non SOP behaviour!
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
Gr8Circle
Posts: 2378
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:30 am

Couple of years back there was a case of an AI captain on an A310 slapping his FO when the aircraft was on ground in DXB...  Big grin
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: What To Do When Flight Crew Can' T Get Along

Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:28 pm

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 21):
Couple of years back there was a case of an AI captain on an A310 slapping his FO when the aircraft was on ground in DXB...

It was last year.
LINK
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)