LipeGIG
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Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:41 am

TAM is really trying to upgrade their international operations.

This week they announce the upgrade on JFK route from 4x to daily, a weekly additional service GRU-FLN-EZE (with A32A) and today they announce a new flight: Daily Fortaleza-Miami with stops at BEL and MAO !

The flight will be operated with A320 and will allow connections from TAM's BSB hub.

It will be the third daily flight to Miami. Tam nowadays become the bigger Brazilian US-Brazil provider with 28 weekly flights as Varig nowadays runs only 18 weekly flights due to the lack of aircrafts.

Schedulle will be released on monday, the flight is not loaded on the system but a Press Release has been published on their Investor Relations area (www.tam.com.br)

I believe Tam it's making a smart move as Fortaleza become a strong destination in northeast, and the stop at MAO will provide a very good connection (as well as cargo) for Manaus electronics industry.


Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
md90fan
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:17 am

Nice to see N.E Brasil finally get some MIA service(or even US service). But thats kinda alot of stops though IMO , but these int'l additions only seem right since TAM is the largest Brasil domestic carrier now  biggrin 
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
EddieDude
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:36 am

I am very glad that JJ is expanding its international routes. I think it is a great step to see JJ doing MAO-MIA. Hopefully one day we will see MAO-CUN.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
luisca
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:55 am

I guess this is a reaction the CM's announced daily PTY-MAO flight.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:52 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 1):
Nice to see N.E Brasil finally get some MIA service(or even US service). But thats kinda alot of stops though IMO , but these int'l additions only seem right since TAM is the largest Brasil domestic carrier now

FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA is still a lot quicker than the next best option, FOR-GRU-MIA. And if demand proove strong enough, the potential is there to split the flights up. For example, have MIA-MAO-BSB and MIA-BEL-FOR.
a.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:47 pm

This is really a no-brainer. The NE of Brazil could easily have supported a narrowbody service to the US when a couple of cities are combined. A Brazilian carrier has the advantage because they can carry traffic between the two cities necessary to tie the route together in Brazil.

I'm not sure if the US-Brazil treaty limits the number of codeshare flights by a US carrier but if it doesn't AA can put their code on the fight (and this will connect w/ JJ codeshare flights operated by AA in MIA).
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:31 pm

Not to mention the equipment upgrade on the GRU-SCL route from A320 to A332!
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
And if demand proove strong enough, the potential is there to split the flights up. For example, have MIA-MAO-BSB and MIA-BEL-FOR.

I have the same filling, and if the R$ continue to valuate in front of US$, be sure that Brazilians will be again 1 million visitors per year at the US (more than 60% to Miami and Orlando).

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
This is really a no-brainer. The NE of Brazil could easily have supported a narrowbody service to the US when a couple of cities are combined.

I agree. But Tam bought a lot of A320 probably looking for Varig's bankruptcy. Also i strong doubt they expect the huge increase on Gol's domestic operations. Tam is competitive on short flights due to it's FF program, but for medium range flights, as it's hub is CGH (and their main plane, the A320 face restrictions there for medium range), Gol become a fantastic competitor. I believe they start to look more abroad in order to use the A320's they will receive this year, as Varig keep flying (yesterday they announce Alvarez & Marsal as their new consultants).

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 6):
Not to mention the equipment upgrade on the GRU-SCL route from A320 to A332!

Also GIG-EZE and the improvement on it's partnership to a c/s with Taca to LIM. During the World Cup, some CDG flights will be extended to Germany (HAM, MUC and more two destinations) for operators.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
I guess this is a reaction the CM's announced daily PTY-MAO flight

I imagine how CM receive this news as well as LAB. Tam take the advantage of the FF program as well as the domestic network.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:31 pm

I assume AA will be code-sharing on this flight too?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 8):
I assume AA will be code-sharing on this flight too?

Yes, most likely. They codeshared on TAM's old BSB-MAO-MIA route.
a.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:06 am

Schedulle:

JJ8074
FOR 0925 BEL 1125 1150 MAO 1250 1405 MIA 1920

JJ8075
MIA 2030 MAO 0135 0235 BEL 0535 0605 FOR 0800

Probably will be operated with A32A (12C 144Y) and Tam will need to convert one more A320 Full Y to C+Y.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Brasuca
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
Probably will be operated with A32A (12C 144Y) and Tam will need to convert one more A320 Full Y to C+Y.

So do you believe they'll use only one aircraft for this flight (even though they arrive on time for the next flight in FOR)?
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sun Mar 19, 2006 7:51 am

Quoting Brasuca (Reply 11):
So do you believe they'll use only one aircraft for this flight (even though they arrive on time for the next flight in FOR)?

Yes. They could rotate the plane at FOR but TAM does not keep business service to FOR, so, no planes on Y+C available at both MAO and FOR to rotate with the FOR-MIA plane. The plane will stay around 5h30 on ground.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
JJMNGR
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
I agree. But Tam bought a lot of A320 probably looking for Varig's bankruptcy. Also i strong doubt they expect the huge increase on Gol's domestic operations. Tam is competitive on short flights due to it's FF program, but for medium range flights, as it's hub is CGH (and their main plane, the A320 face restrictions there for medium range), Gol become a fantastic competitor. I believe they start to look more abroad in order to use the A320's they will receive this year, as Varig keep flying (yesterday they announce Alvarez & Marsal as their new consultants).

Felipe, Sorry to say but your thoughts are wrong. TAM budged for forthcoming years were done, considering VARIG surviving in the market and GOL´s expansion.
VARIG situation was (and still is) tremendously complicated and should have already closed their doors. As did not, is was previewed they would stay arround.
 
jrosa
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sun Mar 19, 2006 10:38 am

I just hope that TAM did not do as VARIG did in the early 90's. VARIG expected that VASP would run into bankruptcy in 92, when it had its first crisis. However, VASP survived and VARIG got stuck with a bunch of aircraft, most of them with above the market lease rates.
 
lufthansi
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:49 pm

Hi there!

Rumors say that TAM also wants to beat VARIG on the routes from Brazil to Paris. Instead of the two daily flights they're offering today they want to upgrade to 4 daily flights with their A330! They're just waiting for the deliveries... VARIG changes the MD11 to their 777 on some days now. Well, I appreciate it as it gives job security to my company. And you've got to love the flight crews! Never met so fine guys and girls! Come on and get your new jets! I can't wait to serve you!
Life starts at take-off!
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:37 pm

Lipe,

Do you know how many of TAM's A320 have biz class? Are those planes never used on domestic routes? I know I've never flown in one (except when took TAM to EZE last June).
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 16):
Do you know how many of TAM's A320 have biz class? Are those planes never used on domestic routes? I know I've never flown in one (except when took TAM to EZE last June).

Rafa, they have 5 A32A (MZN, MZO, MZP, MZR and MZS) used on:

GRU-EZE-GRU (2), GIG-GRU-EZE / GIG-SSA-MCZ-SSA-GIG / GIG-EZE-GIG (1) , GRU-SCL-GRU (1), GRU-GIG GIG-SSA-REC-NAT-REC-SSA-GIG GIG-GRU (1).

When runing domestic flights, the flights are all Y and the C seats are available for their top FF customers (Fidelidade Vermelho / Red Fidelity).

I believe they will add another 1 to the fleet in order to run the FOR-MIA flight.

Quoting Lufthansi (Reply 15):
Rumors say that TAM also wants to beat VARIG on the routes from Brazil to Paris. Instead of the two daily flights they're offering today they want to upgrade to 4 daily flights with their A330!

Lufthansi, if Tam do this, they will need two more A332 that are nowadays wet leased to Etihad and will works only if they get additional frequencies on the bilateral (something that AF is looking too in order to improve GIG-CDG and GRU-CDG both to 2x daily each) and at least one daily light flight (could be a REC-CDG-REC during the day).
Nowadays (without any addition of planes) they could run a 3rd flight using the plane which runs GRU-REC to fly from REC to CDG and sending one plane from CDG to REC and after REC-GRU. But, again, they face the limits of the bilateral.


Quoting Jrosa (Reply 14):
I just hope that TAM did not do as VARIG did in the early 90's. VARIG expected that VASP would run into bankruptcy in 92, when it had its first crisis. However, VASP survived and VARIG got stuck with a bunch of aircraft, most of them with above the market lease rates.

Hi Jose, i believe is quite different this time. The market is growing while in 1990-1993 due to Collor (Brazilian former president who faces impeachment) bad decisions the country face a depression and many people keep their money blocked. The economy face a drop on GDP during those years of around -5% and inflation was around 30% per month!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
jrosa
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:07 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Hi Jose, i believe is quite different this time. The market is growing while in 1990-1993 due to Collor (Brazilian former president who faces impeachment) bad decisions the country face a depression and many people keep their money blocked. The economy face a drop on GDP during those years of around -5% and inflation was around 30% per month!

Your post just confirms that VARIG management (Fundacao Rubem Berta) is fully incompetent and is digging the company grave since early 90's!
At that time VARIG got a huge overcapacity due to all aircraft it got, if I am not wrong at that time VARIG had:

B747-400, -300, -200;
MD11 (brand new);
DC-10-30;
B767-300ER, -200ER;
B737-500, -400, -300, -200; and last but not least
B727-200;
A300-B4, until late 1990.
 
jog
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:29 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 17):
Rafa, they have 5 A32A (MZN, MZO, MZP, MZR and MZS) used on:

GRU-EZE-GRU (2), GIG-GRU-EZE / GIG-SSA-MCZ-SSA-GIG / GIG-EZE-GIG (1) , GRU-SCL-GRU (1), GRU-GIG GIG-SSA-REC-NAT-REC-SSA-GIG GIG-GRU (1).

[...]

I believe they will add another 1 to the fleet in order to run the FOR-MIA flight.

As they will do GRU-SCL-GRU with the A330 from end of march they could use this plane for the FOR-MIA flight, or is the plane already scheduled for another flight?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting Jog (Reply 19):
As they will do GRU-SCL-GRU with the A330 from end of march they could use this plane for the FOR-MIA flight, or is the plane already scheduled for another flight?

They do not announce any other flight yet. You're 100% right, the SCL plane will be available with the upgrade to A332 and can be used for the FOR-MIA.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
JJMNGR
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:38 am

What is being negotiated; is to start a daily operation to LON, not decided if LHR or LGW. The aircrafts leased to Ethyhad will come back for other routes than CDG.
The route to CDG is so consolidated, it would be better to invest in other routes and LON is ahead.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:49 am

It will be great to see JJ flying to England. Any chance JJ will codeshare with VS or BA? If it does codeshare with BA, that could be a sign of it getting closer to oneworld.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:22 am

London, really?

I know that London has been historically a high yielding destination, but it is probably one of the thinnest Brazil-Europe markets. Both RG and BA run the flight between the two countries only once a day and, in both cases, some flights continue onwards (BA does GRU-EZE 4xweek and RG does LHR-CPH 3xweek) so would there be space for a third competitor?

Wouldn't it be wiser to fly to MAD (if the Oneworld relationship is actually happening IB could offer tons of connections) or somewhere else with higher total number of pax?
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:59 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 22):
It will be great to see JJ flying to England. Any chance JJ will codeshare with VS or BA?

Hi Eddie, Tam has a funny situation. They use BA lounge at MIA and VS at JFK. Also some news, AA will cut JJ flight code from GIG-MIA flights very soon. I'm just confused about Tam c/s, anything could happen.

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 23):
I know that London has been historically a high yielding destination, but it is probably one of the thinnest Brazil-Europe markets. Both RG and BA run the flight between the two countries only once a day and, in both cases, some flights continue onwards (BA does GRU-EZE 4xweek and RG does LHR-CPH 3xweek) so would there be space for a third competitor?

I believe there's market for 4 daily flights between Brazil and England as UK as you comment, is bad used for connections (LIS, MAD, CDG and FRA keep more services than UK to/from Brazil). And if Tam get frequencies, probably BA or VS will run 7 more frequencies too.
At CERNAI, some european markets are under negotiations: Spain, France and UK.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
EddieDude
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:15 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
They use BA lounge at MIA and VS at JFK. Also some news, AA will cut JJ flight code from GIG-MIA flights very soon. I'm just confused about Tam c/s, anything could happen.

That is indeed interesting. Seems like JJ is not in a hurry to choose an alliance... who knows, maybe they never will! Speaking of which, how is the relationship with AF? If they decide to expand their cooperation that could also be an interesting sign.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
jog
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:42 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 25):
Speaking of which, how is the relationship with AF?

They renewed and extended the codeshare agreement with AF/KLM at the end of last year and Fidelidade members can earn points on all AF flights except flights between France and South America. But apart from this nothing that could really hint on a further extended cooperation.

There were rumors here almost a year ago about extending the CDG flights to AMS and there would be open frequencies in the bilateral agreement since Varig stopped flying to AMS. Also thinking of the already existing codeshare agreement with KLM in South America an extension of this agreement might be possible so that TAM could codeshare from Amsterdam. However there is really nothing recent that could confirm such plans. So I guess nothing will happen in this direction. If I look at the loads of my flights JJ8099/JJ8098 from CDG to GRU and coming back during the last week there is also not really a need for an extension to AMS or further bonds to AF/KLM.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:20 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 25):
Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 24):
They use BA lounge at MIA and VS at JFK. Also some news, AA will cut JJ flight code from GIG-MIA flights very soon. I'm just confused about Tam c/s, anything could happen.

That is indeed interesting. Seems like JJ is not in a hurry to choose an alliance... who knows, maybe they never will! Speaking of which, how is the relationship with AF? If they decide to expand their cooperation that could also be an interesting sign.

It really isn't that interesting. It simply has to do with geography. British Airways operates the a club at Concourse A at MIA, which TAM uses, so TAM has an agreement with BA (which will end this year, because AA is opening a club in Concourse A). TAM flies to T4 at JFK, so they have an agreement with VS to use their lounge, which is also used by other airlines at T4.
a.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 3):
I guess this is a reaction the CM's announced daily PTY-MAO flight.

I totally agree with you!
Then I would like to see how would JJ react if CM is to fly PTY-BEL (E190), PTY-FOR/REC/SSA/BSB (B737-700) nonstop someday.
That MAO stop enroute to MIA, will sure make the flight 2-3 hours longer for those bording on FOR and BEL.
I think FOR and BEL don't need a MAO stop to support a JJ MIA flight, But do JJ's A320 have the range for a BEL-MIA-BEL?
At last but not least, I'm glad to see the brazilian airlines using their U.S.-Brazil Bilateral slots.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
JJMNGR
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:28 am

The 320´s have proper range. It is not a brand new route, but the extention to MIA of a domestic service TAM already has, but with an international flight number as it will extend to MIA.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 28):

That MAO stop enroute to MIA, will sure make the flight 2-3 hours longer for those bording on FOR and BEL.

Yet it will still save as much as 4-5 hours off stopping GRU.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 28):
But do JJ's A320 have the range for a BEL-MIA-BEL?

BEL-MIA-BEL is at the limits of the A320's range, it might be tough. FOR-MiA-FOR is out of the question.
a.
 
Rafabozzolla
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:06 am

I wonder if, for other points in NE (REC/NAT/MCZ/SSA), it would still be an advantage to take this flight (through FOR or even BSB-MAO) instead of flying to GRU...
 
2travel2know
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 30):
BEL-MIA-BEL is at the limits of the A320's range, it might be tough. FOR-MiA-FOR is out of the question.

This means that BEL-MIA-BEL is OK for A319. Does JJ have any A319?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
PPVRA
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 32):
Does JJ have any A319?

Yup, but they use them out of SDU because it cannot handle the A320.

I doubt they would be willing to use such a small aircraft in such a long trip, though.

Cheers

[Edited 2006-03-20 21:38:24]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 33):
Yup, but they use them out of SDU because it cannot handle the A320.

I doubt they would be willing to use such a small aircraft in such a long trip, though.

They are preparing an A320 with a performance kit in order to use this plane into SDU-CGH route. And TAM use the A319 at BEL (CGH-GIG-BEL-GIG-CGH). Also JJ only need 4-5 A319 to run the shuttle service. In the past Tam needs more A319's as SDU-VIX, SDU-PLU and SDU-BSB need more aircrafts. Now they run all flights (except CGH) from GIG and use A320's.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:16 am

No hope on seeing JJ in CCS this year? Either from GRU or MAO? It would be very nice to see JJ flying MAO-CCS-MIA-CCS-MAO (if bilaterals allow it).

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
JJMNGR
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 32):
This means that BEL-MIA-BEL is OK for A319. Does JJ have any A319?

TAM has 13 A319 in the fleet.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 36):
TAM has 13 A319 in the fleet.

All of them in one-class configuration by the way.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
2travel2know
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:59 am

One should take into consideration that the nearest U.S. Consulate to FOR/BEL/MAO is in REC, If JJ thinks that Northern Brazilians will flock to MIA just because they start a daily direct from FOR/BEL/MAO as much as Paulistas and Cariocas do (since both cities do have U.S. Consulates), IMHO JJ should reconsider that.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
PPVRA
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:42 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 34):

They are preparing an A320 with a performance kit in order to use this plane into SDU-CGH route.

I've read about that in a very old article (4 years old IIRC, don't remember the source). . . but I haven't heard anything about A320s at SDU so far. Is this performance kit already available? Do you know what they are by any chance?

Cheers
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
N1120A
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:02 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
For example, have MIA-MAO-BSB and MIA-BEL-FOR.

The A320 doesn't have a chance on MIA-BEL-MIA. MIA-MAO-MIA is not an issue, however. AA could throw a 757 on MIA-BEL-MIA, MIA-FOR-MIA or MIA-BSB-MIA for that matter.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
TP727
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RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:13 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 38):
IMHO JJ should reconsider that.

I think the flight will do just fine. About three months ago i flew MAO-MIA with LAB on a 767-300 and the flight was near full in both classes, and talking to the crew i was informed that it´s usually like that in all three weekly flights.
In the past RG flew to MIA out of BEL with a 737-700. I did that flight one time and it had 50 people at the most. Back than dollar was near R$ 3,00 and it was low season, now it is another picture.
Also JJ have tried MAO-MIA but didn´t last long and the economy situation was the same discribed above.

TP727
 
bsbisland
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:45 am

RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 40):
MIA-MAO-MIA is not an issue, however. AA could throw a 757 on MIA-BEL-MIA, MIA-FOR-MIA or MIA-BSB-MIA for that matter.

AA is already using all its slots of the bilateral agreement on GRU/GIG flights.

Quoting TP727 (Reply 41):
In the past RG flew to MIA out of BEL with a 737-700.

I believe they flew this route (MAO-BEL-MIA and BEL-MAO-MIA) with the B767-200. Those flights were dropped and then reinstated a few times.
 
incitatus
Posts: 2749
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 40):
The A320 doesn't have a chance on MIA-BEL-MIA. MIA-MAO-MIA is not an issue, however. AA could throw a 757 on MIA-BEL-MIA, MIA-FOR-MIA or MIA-BSB-MIA for that matter.

MIA-BEL-MIA does not have a chance.

BEL is not a tourist destination and as a generator of business traffic is mediocre. BEL does not even have a nonstop to Sao Paulo, why would anybody think it can support one to Miami?
Stop pop up ads
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 43):
BEL is not a tourist destination and as a generator of business traffic is mediocre. BEL does not even have a nonstop to Sao Paulo, why would anybody think it can support one to Miami?

Then a daily FOR-BEL-MIA on a A319 type aircraft could work.
If another tourist destination is needed to support such a flight, squeeze SLZ between BEL and FOR.
Maybe what BEL needs is CM E190 PTY non-stop 3-4 times per week?
About BEL having no GRU non-stop, Isn't because no Brazilian domestic airline flies E190/170 and those JJ F100 don't have the range?
There could be a 70-90 passengers per day demmand between BEL and GRU, but it's too little for a 120+ aircraft.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2219
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:29 am

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 42):
AA is already using all its slots of the bilateral agreement on GRU/GIG flights

I would assume Brasilian airlines have the same bilateral restrictions as the US carriers do. Thus, where did/is JJ getting the slots to operate this?
 
bsbisland
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:45 am

RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:58 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 45):
I would assume Brasilian airlines have the same bilateral restrictions as the US carriers do. Thus, where did/is JJ getting the slots to operate this?

American carriers are using all the slots available, the Brazilian not. I don´t know how many slots are there for each side ( and if it´s the same amount for Brazil and US carriers) but AA+UA+CO+DL have more flights than RG+JJ. So I assume JJ (and RG) still have some slots available.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24723
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 43):

BEL is not a tourist destination and as a generator of business traffic is mediocre. BEL does not even have a nonstop to Sao Paulo, why would anybody think it can support one to Miami?

BEL has supported non-stops to MIA in the past just fine with Varig. In fact, before Varig started cutting long-haul flights from secondary Brazilian cities in the early 00s, MIA-BEL was one of the last routes cut. BEL alone won't cut it - Varig's flight was a triangle with MAO (MIA-MAO-BEL-MIA), but combining it with BSB or FOR, it would do just fine.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 45):
I would assume Brasilian airlines have the same bilateral restrictions as the US carriers do. Thus, where did/is JJ getting the slots to operate this?

They don't use all their slots like US carriers do. In fact, they use less than half of them.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24723
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:30 am

According to TAM's US website, the flight will be an A330-200. I have a feeling it is a typo, though. A330 is too much passenger capacity for a daily flight.

http://tamairlines.com/
a.
 
LipeGIG
Topic Author
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Tam To Fly FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA Daily

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 46):
I don´t know how many slots are there for each side ( and if it´s the same amount for Brazil and US carriers) but AA+UA+CO+DL have more flights than RG+JJ. So I assume JJ (and RG) still have some slots available.

105 weekly flights. Brazil is using only: 28 TAM (21 MIA, 7 JFK) and 27 Varig (13 MIA, 10 JFK, 4 LAX). TAM figures includes the new FOR-MIA flight.
US lines are using 103: 47 AA (28 MIA, 12 DFW, 7 JFK), 21 DL (14 ATL, 7 JFK), 21 UA (14 IAD, 7 OHR) and 14 CO (7 IAH, 7 EWR).

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 44):
About BEL having no GRU non-stop, Isn't because no Brazilian domestic airline flies E190/170 and those JJ F100 don't have the range?

BEL has more relation with Brasilia and Rio de Janeiro (due to Vale do Rio Doce, BHP Billiton, Aluvale and others) than to São Paulo. Varig and TAM runs SAO-GIG-BEL and Gol runs GIG-BEL non stop too. BEL is the closer city to Carajas, the major iron ore reserve in the world, owned by Vale do Rio Doce as well as to Barcarena, a major alluminum producer (Albras+Alunorte).

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 43):
BEL is not a tourist destination and as a generator of business traffic is mediocre

Incitatus, i believe BEL could support a flight to MIA, may be not alone but with FOR and NAT, it could works because of raw material activities (including wood) and major investments made in the past. But there are business activity and a nonstop to MIA could help to improve such activities.

Looking the fares for the flight MAO-MIA, it seems TAM prices seems to be the same as GRU or GIG: US$ 1,000 for an economy ticket and US$ 6,000 for a Business Class Ticket. The flight is now loaded into the system and available for reservations.

Felipe

[Edited 2006-03-22 01:42:42]
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !

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