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turk223
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Olaya Herrera Questions*

Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:11 am

*I know it's a pretty obscure topic and really only Colombians - older ones at that - may be interested!

BUt.. this is a posting to satisfy my own questions since I visited Medellin and am "paisa de corazon".

Prior to the current Jose Maria Cordova Airport opening in Rionegro in '85 (I believe), all airline operation operated out of EOH. Does this mean that AV flew 707s and 720s - and, egads, 747s - into EOH? Or was all AV traffic limited to 727s? What about Aerocondor? Did the short-lived A300 fly into EOH? What other airlines flew into EOH and with what types of aircraft? I know Aces flew Twin Otters and 727s. My better-half remembers flying out of EOH but - not being an airline-geek like me - can't remember any details.

I went to EOH to visit it and it is so conveniently located, but surrounded by heavily built-up areas. Was it like this prior to '85?

Now to admit what I am basing my questions on; (sigh, I am such a geek!) I "fly" my flight simulator all around my virtual Colombia airports (I have the really cool scenery upgrade) and I can NEVER land at EOH!!! The approach to RWY 1 always requires dropping out of the sky like a brick. I've tried it on an ADA Twin Otter, SCEARA Let-140, ERJ-145s, MD-80s (!), and no luck. If the simulator is somewhat real, I can't imagine a 707 or an A300 making the approach!

Any help for this geek would be appreciated!
 
avianca707359b
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:09 am

Oh, what memories......

Yes, Avianca operated their 707's and 720B's, as well as SAM's 720B's into EOH till the very end. The 747 did make a promotional visit one time (I think just once) and I'm sure it was a 747-124 (HK-2000) - it was an incredible event and the empty Jumbo used up every inch of runway. Aerocondor operated their A-300 and 720B's, and a short-lived secondary ailine named Aerotal-Colombia also used 720B's (maybe 707's too?) to Miami and other points in Colombia. There were cargo operations using 707's (Tampa) and others, as well as DC-8's, but I don't recall too many details.

An approach into EOH in a 707 was almost as exciting as landing at Kai-Tak in Hong Kong. First you decended into the Medellin area (boxed in on the east and west by the Andean mountain ranges) in a counter-clockwise spiral. Nearly the entire approach consisted of steeply banked left turns, and as you can imagine passengers in the "A" seats had a thrilling view. On final approach, you suddenly "flattened out" while zipping by a large hill in the center of the valley (Cerro Nutibara) while flying over densly populated residential areas! As a teenager, I remember full braking and reverse thrust being applied and it was always a dramatic end to a flight from JFK. A missed approach was quite tricky because beyond the runway was an upward-sloping area called "Campos de Paz" - Fields of Peace - yes a cemetery. The running joke on many a flight 059 from New York was that if the brakes failed upon landing in EOH you would get an immediate burial courtesy of Avianca!

Another tidbit that you might not be aware of is that EOH had a dusk-to-dawn curfew. All flight operations ended at about 6:00pm, so that if your if your 10:30am to 3:45pm JFK-Medellin nonstop was delayed by a few hours, it would have to divert to Bogota. There was always a scramble to get the last flights of the day in and out by 5:45pm, so you would always have a cluster of flights departing right before the deadline.

I discovered i had many 35mm slides that I took in the 80's and had not viewed in 20 years - many of them of planes operating at EOH, ramp shots etc... Some day I will scan them and post them here.
In Memory of HK-1402 "Sucre" & HK-1410 "Bolivar"
 
Southamerica
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Turk223 (Thread starter):
The approach to RWY 1 always requires dropping out of the sky like a brick.

It does. But the active for landings back then was basically RWY19, almost never RWY1. Of course, eventually anything smaller than a Electra would be authorized for a RWY1 landing.

Almost everyone in Medellin who had lived the jet era in EOH has one or two stories to tell, and quite dramatic ones at that.


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Juan Pablo Gómez
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Andrés Ramírez




MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © CARLOS A. OSORIO ARANGO






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Coronado990
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:25 am

There is a picture of the AV 747 at EOH. It was in a discussion when the A-380 visited MDE. Click below and move down to reply #65: Great picture.
RE: A380 In Colombia, Soon! (by RCS763AV Jan 8 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2536470
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Summa767
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 1):
I discovered i had many 35mm slides that I took in the 80's and had not viewed in 20 years - many of them of planes operating at EOH, ramp shots etc... Some day I will scan them and post them here.

Let that day be very soon! Please!!!
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:03 pm

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 4):
Let that day be very soon! Please!!!

I add myself to that request!
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:05 pm

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 3):
There is a picture of the AV 747 at EOH. It was in a discussion when the A-380 visited MDE. Click below and move down to reply #65: Great picture.

This one:
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/3348/av7474if.jpg
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
Summa767
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:31 pm

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 6):
Great picture.

Absolutely fantastic shot indeed!
 
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turk223
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:53 pm

Thanks for the replies - it must have been great seeing "Sucre" or "Bolívar" whipping past Cerro Nutibara.

I hope that EOH will get a bit of a facelift - I think it would be cool too if AV returned. I'd imagine some national routes would be very popular, especially with business people. However, maybe the competition with itself at JMC would be a reason for AV not to consider it?

As a matter of fact, regarding my geeky flight simulator comments; I did manage to land at EOH this weekend. Of course, if it were real life, Campos de Paz would have a few additions as I ran out of runway... I still can't imagine what it must have been like in real life!

Is there an Aces 727 on the west side of the airport? If so, what is it doing there?

Has any a-netter flown with Aerocondor?
 
Southamerica
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 8):
I hope that EOH will get a bit of a facelift

Indeed. The terminal itself is in fine conditions, but many details could definitely receive an upgrade: better light in certain areas and the floor in some spaces needs to be changed.

But they are at least working on it. The terraces, which are greatly-missed, are planned to be opened in the near future; all the airport's restrooms, which I consider speak a lot from any given place, were totally remodeled and are now kept spotless; and painting of specific areas is constantly taking place within the terminal.

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 8):
I think it would be cool too if AV returned. I'd imagine some national routes would be very popular, especially with business people. However, maybe the competition with itself at JMC would be a reason for AV not to consider it?

Not only self-competition, but also the fact that EOH is limited to 50-seater services and to certain national destinations make Avianca, and possibly others think twice about launching [or resuming] operations in EOH.

Aires and Satena have made a brilliant job in re-building what ACES once had in EOH. Aires' job is especially remarkable since they had to put up with the strong regional culture which was sentimentally attached to ACES, and try to replace them in many routes. They are doing a wonderful job.


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Photo © ANDRES RESTREPO GUTIERREZ



Satena is too thrilled with its EOH-station, proof being that the company started with 2 or 3 shy services to BOG, which contrast with the current 8 [eight] daily flights on the EOH-BOG route, which has become famous among business travelers between Medellin and Bogota.


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Photo © Andrés Dallimonti



Avianca tried operations from EOH twice in the past, and quit. Maybe with spare Fokker-50s they could try it again in the future, which I doubt though. Who knows, third time's the charm.


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Photo © Andrés Dallimonti
View Large View Medium
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Photo © ANDRES RESTREPO GUTIERREZ



Quoting Turk223 (Reply 8):
Is there an Aces 727 on the west side of the airport? If so, what is it doing there?

The ex-ACES 727 was converted into an aviation museum, and it is now a popular attraction in the Aeroparque Juan Pablo II theme-park right beside the airport.


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Photo © Andrés Dallimonti






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turk223
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:12 am

Thanks as always, Federico. It's always a treat to read your postings.

As you've already gathered from my posts, I love Medellín and Colombia and have a real interest in Colombian aviation. Of course, all commercial aviation interests me but recently... well, I have a sort-of focus on Colombia!

Maybe it's best to think that EOH is filling a particular need and does it very well? I'm glad to hear that Aires is mirroring what Aces was. My better half talks about Aces and how great it was...

How is Satena in terms of service? Is ADA going to grow?

I'll be back in Medellín this August - and hopefully living there next year if all goes well. Is the park where the Aces 727 is located open to the public? I'd imagine it is but I'm suprised that my better half didn't take me there in December...

It's be fun to meet up with all the Paisa a-netters one of these days!
 
2travel2know
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:15 am

I did fly into EOH on CM Lockheed Elektra, Then I belive they flew B737-100 and -200 there until they moved to MDE.
I don't know if EOH still is an international airport, if so, maybe someone could be interested to fly EOH-PAC.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
757MDE
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 11):
I did fly into EOH on CM Lockheed Elektra, Then I belive they flew B737-100 and -200 there until they moved to MDE.
I don't know if EOH still is an international airport, if so, maybe someone could be interested to fly EOH-PAC.

They did indeed fly the classic 737s to EOH until MDE was opened in 1985.
It's not an International Airport any longer, in fact, it has the "Regional" status here and it's restricted to 50 seaters, although the president's 737 lands there an dsome other bigger jets not belonging to Airlines (Vicente Fernandez came in another BBJ some time ago to EOH). EOH - PAC couldn't be flown as per current regulations for an Airline. I'm not so sure about private Airplanes though.


Besides the competition between Aires and Satena (there's routes flown by both Airlines like Apartadó, among others) ADA is growing indeed. They got some BAE Jetstream 32s that add to their Twin Otters and Cessna Crusaders, besides they're opening routes out of EOH and Antioquia like Cali - Quibdó or Montería - Cartagena.

MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Andrés Ramírez





Also besides Federico's remarks regarding the Airport itself other things have been done like a new flights information system made by Scala.
http://www.scala.com/studies/airport.html


Regarding the 747 to EOH








Regarding the old 707s Approach to EOH







Regarding Geeky FS Approaches to EOH:

The approach depicted there is performed as follows, no need to dive:
You should be 10000 feet over José María Córdova Airport following its runway heading (360 degrees) until 17.5 DME outbound of RNG VOR (115.1). At that point it all becomes visual you should look left and see the Autopista Medellín - Bogota a little close to Guarne, you should see a entrance to the Aburra valley, get into it (over Bello) and then visually fly either to Runway 19 directly or to Runway 01 doing a left pattern over Envigado depending on ATC, weather and traffic conditions and yourself.


After entering the valley as described we were cleared to Runway 01, so we do a left pattern over Envigado.




Finals for Runway 01 after the left pattern over Envigado.




The same approach, but this time cleared straight to Runway 19.




Finals for Runway 19 straight approach.



There are other entrances to the valley, from Caldas (in the South), Boquerón de San Antonio (west), among others.


Boquerón de San Antonio



Lots of images huh?

[Edited 2006-03-20 18:43:20]
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
Southamerica
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 10):
Maybe it's best to think that EOH is filling a particular need and does it very well?

It does. Not in vain is EOH the country's sixth air-terminal in terms of passenger movement, which is quite a title considering that nothing larger than a ERJ-145 operates commercial services there.

During 2004, EOH was fifth in passenger movement, only behind BOG, CLO, MDE and CTG, and, incredibly, above airports such as BAQ, BGA and PEI.

In 2005, BAQ managed to reclaim its number 5 position, but EOH remains right behind, and well-above ADZ, PEI, BGA and CUC.

Thanks to combined services between EOH and MDE, Medellin is extremely well-connected to Colombia's different regions. EOH is perfect for regional flights that would have no sense from MDE. For instance, Medellin-Manizales is barely 3 hours away by road, maybe less. If the flights would depart from MDE, it would be nothing more than a wild goose-chase, as you would spend nearly 1 hour driving up to the airport, you have to be 1 hour before your flight departure, and the flight itself lasts 20 minutes. So it would be 2 hours and 20 minutes by air in front of 3 hours by road.

From EOH, on the other hand, you can perfectly check-in 30 minutes before your flight and grab the 20-minute hop to Manizales, spending barely 1 hour from your house in Medellin to the hotel in Manizales.




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757MDE
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 13):
It does. Not in vain is EOH the country's sixth air-terminal in terms of passenger movement

And second in operations per day (after BOG of course) as for the last document I read in that respect.
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Southamerica
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:58 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 14):
And second in operations per day (after BOG of course) as for the last document I read in that respect.

Absolutely right. Though I usually prefer not mentioning it as there's people who consider it "unfair" given that the vast majority of the operations are classified as regional, or general aviation.

To avoid foolish discussions, it's much better to stress the fact which illustrates yearly passengers moved.



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avianca707359b
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 12):
Regarding Geeky FS Approaches to EOH:

Your flight simulator pics are awesome! I never thought I would see the Coltejer building and downtown Medellin with such detail in a commercial FS application......What simulator are those screenshots from?
In Memory of HK-1402 "Sucre" & HK-1410 "Bolivar"
 
Coronado990
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 13):
Thanks to combined services between EOH and MDE, Medellin is extremely well-connected to Colombia's different regions. EOH is perfect for regional flights that would have no sense from MDE. For instance, Medellin-Manizales is barely 3 hours away by road, maybe less. If the flights would depart from MDE, it would be nothing more than a wild goose-chase, as you would spend nearly 1 hour driving up to the airport, you have to be 1 hour before your flight departure, and the flight itself lasts 20 minutes. So it would be 2 hours and 20 minutes by air in front of 3 hours by road

Wow...1 hour to drive to the airport? I did not know it was that far. What is the distance from MDE to the centre city?
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turk223
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:12 am

Hey Andrés...

Thanks for the great explanation for how to do an EOH landing. I'm guessing you're into FS too?

I've realized how much time I've spend "flying" is a little sad. Sigh - I need a life. Maybe I'm a frustrated pilot?

Where'd you get the Satena ERJ? The only one I found wasn't too good - definitely different from yours.

I did a RWY 1 approach with FAC-0001 (the presidential BBJ) recently and managed to land, but I know in real life the plane would have been overstressed. What I usually do - for practice - is a short flight plan from MDE to EOH. Usually take off from RWY 36 at MDE and cleared to 12,000. Routed to the opening in the valley (Caldas?), and only after confirming to the tower that I have the runway in sight am I cleared to 6,900. Even with a descent of 2,400 FPM and an airspeed of 150 KTS, I never manage to land - always too fast and too high and overshoot. I've done full flaps, spoilers, near-stall speeds and a descent of nearly 4,000 FPM and still no luck. Even in my ADA Twin Otter I have a ton of trouble - I'd hate to be a passenger in one of my flights.

Also, I can never get a landing clearance to RWY 19 - even if I set the winds to come from the south. Always get the approach to RWY 19 and "circle to land" clearance to RWY 1.

Your thoughts would be appreciated!
 
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 17):
Wow...1 hour to drive to the airport? I did not know it was that far. What is the distance from MDE to the centre city?

Well, it's 45 minutes most of the time. Between downtown Medellin and MDE [Jose Maria Cordova International Airport] it's just 32 kilometers. If those 32 kilometers were horizontal, the drive shouldn't take more than 20-25 minutes. But they aren't. All of the four highways that connect the city with the airport have to make their way through rough terrain and go up the high mountains that surround the valley, and that's basically what makes the drive longer.




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757MDE
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 16):
Your flight simulator pics are awesome! I never thought I would see the Coltejer building and downtown Medellin with such detail in a commercial FS application......What simulator are those screenshots from?

Thank you very much, I'm glad you like them.
I use Miscrosoft Flight Simulator 2004 with patch from 9 to 9.1 and Colombia Virtual 2005 scenery available from www.virtualcol.net or simmarket.

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 17):
Wow...1 hour to drive to the airport? I did not know it was that far. What is the distance from MDE to the centre city?

The distance from threshold of Runway 01 of EOH to the threshold of Runway 36 MDE in a straight line is 11nm aprox (not much). But Medellin happens to be in a valley full of tall mountains and the roads to the Airport (there's three) have to climb them (with some curves involved) and then descend from them again. The road distance is between 30 something and 40 something kilometers depending on the road chosen and the road time averagely takes from 40 minutes to 1+ hour depending on traffic, road and overall conditions. I'm going to use Flight Simulator again to show you, I'm sorry if it pisses anybody off.
The things I marked are not exactly accurate in any way, but that's how the thing is sort of.
Click on the image to see it bigger.



The roads are of course in a approximate position and the shapes don't really belong, there's lots of curves and stuff. But I think you get the idea.

Red line
Autopista Medellín - Bogotá road.
It's a road in very good conditions, not really curvy and very fast. It takes like 45 minutes to get to the Airport in that road but I've managed to get there even in 35 minutes.
The cons of it are that as you it has to be taken way north of the valley almost in Bello, and the trip from downtown to that part can easily take 20 minutes or more if the traffic is heavy, it takes even more time from the South (Poblado, Sabaneta, Envigado, Itagüi... etc). And the exit sector of the city has some safety issues and it's not really cute to say.

Yellow line
Santa Helena road.
It was the first road built to connect Medellín and the valley of San Nicolás, it's a very old road. It's the most curvy of them all and it's narrow as well, not many people use it actually, but the distance itself is shorter than the others, the time is the same because of the slow speed one has to have not to crash. Time is 40 minutes to 1 hour on the road. It's taken from the Ayacucho road (49th Street) in downtown Medellín, which itself means traffic and more travel time.

Blue line
Las Palmas road and variants.
The road is right now in works for a great revamp and to have 2 tracks per side of driving so it's a mess and it's closed most of the time (there's way at some hours of the day though).
The first road coming from the Airport to downtown goes by El Retiro town and meets the second variant just before the beginning of the descent and gets to the city by San Diego mall and the 33th Avenue, there's a roundpoint to easily go to downtown, El Poblado avenue or Las Vegas avenue. 33th roads goes far to the west of the city until 80th avenue. So it's convenient because the road can be accessed from lots of places of the city via highways which means less time of travel most of the times.
There's a third variant accessable from El Retiro town while one is on the old Las Palmas road, it goes all the way from the mountains and it makes a really reaaaaally inclined descent into Aburra's valley south part, finishes in Envigado. The descent is sooo steep lots of braking units are damaged and the road usually smells like burned brakes hehehe.
The road itself was mantained in overall good conditions and travel time used to take 50 minutes to 1 hour in normal circumstances, it's midly curvy, less than Santa Helena, but more than Autopista Medellín - Bogotá.
When the works finish it's expected to be way faster than it used to be and thus travel time should decrease.


There was a plan to build a tunnel beneath the mountains that make most of the travel time to the 11NM away MDE and would have decreased time travel to some 15-20 minutes, but it was dropped until further advise.

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 18):
Hey Andrés...

Thanks for the great explanation for how to do an EOH landing. I'm guessing you're into FS too?

I've realized how much time I've spend "flying" is a little sad. Sigh - I need a life. Maybe I'm a frustrated pilot?

Where'd you get the Satena ERJ? The only one I found wasn't too good - definitely different from yours.

I did a RWY 1 approach with FAC-0001 (the presidential BBJ) recently and managed to land, but I know in real life the plane would have been overstressed. What I usually do - for practice - is a short flight plan from MDE to EOH. Usually take off from RWY 36 at MDE and cleared to 12,000. Routed to the opening in the valley (Caldas?), and only after confirming to the tower that I have the runway in sight am I cleared to 6,900. Even with a descent of 2,400 FPM and an airspeed of 150 KTS, I never manage to land - always too fast and too high and overshoot. I've done full flaps, spoilers, near-stall speeds and a descent of nearly 4,000 FPM and still no luck. Even in my ADA Twin Otter I have a ton of trouble - I'd hate to be a passenger in one of my flights.

Also, I can never get a landing clearance to RWY 19 - even if I set the winds to come from the south. Always get the approach to RWY 19 and "circle to land" clearance to RWY 1.

Your thoughts would be appreciated!

I'm into FS too as you can see, since FS95, and I hope I become a real Pilot and not a frustrated one! (working on it.. hope to make it into the FAC).
Well, the Caldas entrance has indeed a kinda fast feet per minute rate until some point, but it's not that bad. What happens is that the Flight Simulator ATC is usually screwed and gives all the wrong routes. The way you tried to go to EOH is never used because, precisely, it's imposible to land and very possible to overstress the plane. The used entrances as I told you are Boquerón de San Antonio, Bello (the one I depicted you), Caldas, sometimes Santa Helena and sometimes way north of the valley. Most of the entrances if not all require some sort of pattern to descend and align to the Runway, a la Quito but not that dramatic.

The Airplanes I used in the Pictures are:
-PIC Feelthere Embraer ERJ-145 model. Custom made Satena textures made by a friend and myself.

-Boeing 737 NG PMDG model. Custom made Fuerza Aérea Colombiana 0001 textures made by the same friend and myself.

The Flight simulator ATC will never issue a landing on Runway 19 I don't know why, but I never use that ATC. What I meant when I said cleared was when Online Flying in Vatsim with controllers that are people, you should try it. Vatsim.net

[Edited 2006-03-20 23:39:16]
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Southamerica
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:47 am

Andres,

You made quite an accurate description about the different roads that connect the city with the airport. I'll comment on a couple of details nonetheless.

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 20):
Medellin-Bogota
It's a road in very good conditions, not really curvy and very fast. It takes like 45 minutes to get to the Airport in that road but I've managed to get there even in 35 minutes.

Indeed, so have I. In fact, with the current works going on in Las Palmas, the Medellin-Bogota highway is the one I now usually take, even during the hours when Las Palmas is opened for traffic. It's unbareable to drive through that highway under the current conditions, but fortunately works are going fast and hopefully soon we'll have it done.

You forgot to add that the Medellin-Bogota highway has one great advantage on the positive side, and it's that it also has 2 lanes per side most of the way. The toll fee is a bit more expensive, but it's definitely worth it. Great scenery of the northern part of the valley as well.

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 20):
33th roads goes far to the west of the city until 80th avenue.

A bit further actually. 33th avenue ends when it meets 84th street  Smile

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 20):
There was a plan to build a tunnel beneath the mountains that make most of the travel time to the 11NM away MDE and would have decreased time travel to some 15-20 minutes, but it was dropped until further advise.

The project was suspended basically because there weren't too many benefits for the cost of the project.

The tunnel would turn out to be extremely expensive, and studies showed that it would only shorten the trip from the city to the airport in about 20 minutes. It's much cheaper to upgrade the road to a 4-lane highway [as they are currently doing], and still, it is planned to shorten the trip in 10-15 minutes.

When the three stages of the Las Palmas upgrade are completed, the drive to the airport should take around 30 minutes. Currently they are in the middle of stage two, reportedly the most difficult one because it's the part where the road goes through the toughest, most unstable terrain. Lots of bridges are being put to short-cut several abysses, which you've probably seen.



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Summa767
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:01 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 20):
I'm going to use Flight Simulator again to show you, I'm sorry if it pisses anybody off.

Far from it! I find the whole discussion about the approach to EOH and the FS illustrations fascinating! Good to see the different roads on the map too, that I have used as a passenger, but without paying too much attention (well, on the Santa Elena one I do remember getting nauseous the sometimes). So Thank you!

I have flown into EOH only twice, both on SAM (720 and 727 I think), both from ADZ as a 4 yr lod the first time round and again 2 yrs after that.

The last time I can still remember disinctly, as there was a very tense atmosphere onboard: It was raining and passengers could only see grey through the windows. And the turbulence, banking movements, and at the same time as "dropping", I mean, it really was a series of steep qantum drops, to which every one seemed to give a groan, contributed to a feeling in oblivion. It seemed an eternity until the plane was finally on the staight line to the runway, and we could start recognising features of our city. Phew!
 
Coronado990
Posts: 1312
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:12 am

RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 20):
The distance from threshold of Runway 01 of EOH to the threshold of Runway 36 MDE in a straight line is 11nm aprox (not much). But Medellin happens to be in a valley full of tall mountains and the roads to the Airport (there's three) have to climb them (with some curves involved) and then descend from them again. The road distance is between 30 something and 40 something kilometers depending on the road chosen and the road time averagely takes from 40 minutes to 1+ hour depending on traffic, road and overall conditions. I'm going to use Flight Simulator again to show you, I'm sorry if it pisses anybody off.
The things I marked are not exactly accurate in any way, but that's how the thing is sort of.

Thank you for the detailed driving descriptions. Our city (San Diego) wants to build an airport high up in the mountains far from the city. It is the only option that does not involve a military base. Because it is 70 miles away and I am not for it. I was just wondering if MDE was in the same position. It is not nearly as bad as I had thought.

By the way, it looks like you have a beautiful city and I will definitely visit soon. Thanks again for the info.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
757MDE
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 am

RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 21):
You made quite an accurate description about the different roads that connect the city with the airport.

Thanks dude.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 21):
The tunnel would turn out to be extremely expensive, and studies showed that it would only shorten the trip from the city to the airport in about 20 minutes. It's much cheaper to upgrade the road to a 4-lane highway [as they are currently doing], and still, it is planned to shorten the trip in 10-15 minutes.

When the three stages of the Las Palmas upgrade are completed, the drive to the airport should take around 30 minutes. Currently they are in the middle of stage two, reportedly the most difficult one because it's the part where the road goes through the toughest, most unstable terrain. Lots of bridges are being put to short-cut several abysses, which you've probably seen.

Yes that's true, and there's more important priorities anyway.
I still think it will eventually be done sometime in the future.

Yes, I have seen the works and indeed there are lots of bridges, short, long, straight curvy... that second stage is all bridges. I honestly never imagined that project was going to be made, I didn't see how could they but Civil Engineering has good ways.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 21):
A bit further actually. 33th avenue ends when it meets 84th street

Ahh! Indeed! Thanks for reminding... I'm all used to only going until the 80th that I forgot that deed!. In fact, I've only gone further than the 80th street coming from the 33th avenue like two times in my life....hehehe.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 22):
Far from it! I find the whole discussion about the approach to EOH and the FS illustrations fascinating! Good to see the different roads on the map too, that I have used as a passenger, but without paying too much attention (well, on the Santa Elena one I do remember getting nauseous the sometimes). So Thank you!

Anytime dude!
I've travelled all them lots of times since I live in the MDE region and have to travel to downtown veery frequently, even though I haven't travelled the Envigado variant that much. Santa Helena makes anybody nauseous...
If you or anybody (and you Turk223 that are into FS as well) want to see some other pictures of my (only-by-now-I-hope) virtual flights click here.

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 23):
Thank you for the detailed driving descriptions. Our city (San Diego) wants to build an airport high up in the mountains far from the city. It is the only option that does not involve a military base. Because it is 70 miles away and I am not for it. I was just wondering if MDE was in the same position. It is not nearly as bad as I had thought.

By the way, it looks like you have a beautiful city and I will definitely visit soon. Thanks again for the info.

You're welcome as well, why the need for a military base?
So far it'd be a sort of Californian Narita!

Yes, Medellín is cool. It has lots of problems but has a really nice side that the media doesn't portray (good news = no news). When you come here nothing should happen if you use common sense, welcome to Medellín.
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
Southamerica
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 24):
Yes, I have seen the works and indeed there are lots of bridges, short, long, straight curvy... that second stage is all bridges. I honestly never imagined that project was going to be made, I didn't see how could they but Civil Engineering has good ways.

I shared exactly the same thoughts about the first stage, the one that goes from San Diego Mall to the Intercontinental Hotel. There were several segments, like the part where Babylon is located or the couple of hundred meters past Templo Antonia, where I simply couldn't picture how on Earth were they going to put another 2 lanes to the highway. And so they did.

I can only imagine that the third and final stage is going to be a breeze compared to the previous two. In fact, if you've noticed, they've already started with it, as they are extending the 4-lane highway almost as far as the Country Club, including a whole new interchange complex with the Transversal Superior.

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 24):
You're welcome as well, why the need for a military base?

I think he means that the easiest visible option to make an alternative airport in SAN is occupying the space currently used by one of the military bases in the city surroundings.

I too wonder what mountains would be Coronado990 referring to?

Anyhow, I do hope Lindberg Field stays operational, at least for several years more. Amazing approach for an amazing city. Hopefully I'll be visiting San Diego again in June. Looking forward to it.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
777jaah
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:56 pm

Well, this is not about FS, but the original topic, sorry..........

First time I flew to EOH was in ALM in a CLO-EOH-UAU-EOH-CLO back in 1982, if i'm nopt wriong, it was in a MD-82, but I was way too young......... (Check Photo ID 26114).

The things that I remember themost, is when we took off from EOH, my dad told me to check how steep the was going to be, bc the ac needed to avoid those close mouintains. Of course, when you're 7 years old, everything seems like a joyride.


Good luck.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 20):
I'm going to use Flight Simulator again to show you, I'm sorry if it pisses anybody off.

"Au contraire mon ami"..
My first goal when I signed up to A.Net was to learn. I have been reading this thread since it started. I haven't post anything because I don't have anything to contribute, but believe me, this thread has been great!
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
avianca707359b
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:59 pm

RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 27):
My first goal when I signed up to A.Net was to learn. I have been reading this thread since it started. I haven't post anything because I don't have anything to contribute, but believe me, this thread has been great!

I agree, this thread has been quite interesting. I never used FlightSimulator 2004 before so now I can buy it and spend more countless hours thinking about airplanes.....

I have many memories of EOH and Medellin, although I never lived in Colombia but I visited my family frequently.

Chatting about 707 approaches seems to be very addictive! I love Airliners.net!

P.S. I hope I can find my 35mm slide of an Avianca 707 an Avianca 727-100, a SAM 720B and an Aerocondor 720B parked side by side at EOH! If I do, I'll be sure to post it...
In Memory of HK-1402 "Sucre" & HK-1410 "Bolivar"
 
Coronado990
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 25):
too wonder what mountains would be Coronado990 referring to?

The mountain I refer to is the Coastal Range that separates our ocean from the desert. The highest peak (Cuyamaca Peak) can be seen and is about 6500 feet high.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060314/images/view.jpg
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 23):
By the way, it looks like you have a beautiful city

That you can be sure about. Medellin is one of the most beautiful cities in Colombia..(and I am being objective because I am not from Medellin)
http://www.nemo.de/jpgs7/medellin-img_0890-gr.jpg

And don't get me started with the women in Medellin.. that's a non-aviation topic but very interesting..lol
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
legacy135
Posts: 966
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:27 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 12):
Regarding the old 707s Approach to EOH

Thank you very much for all the pictures, but what I specially loved is the 720 approach plate. Those kind of things are real aviation history! If you have more of them, please show us, I love it.

Thanks very much and kind regards

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink
 
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turk223
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:34 am

Wow! I feel like I've finally started a good post... woo-hoo!

And, it's ended up being a great side-discussion about my adopted city - Medellín. Love all the pictures...

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 28):
P.S. I hope I can find my 35mm slide of an Avianca 707 an Avianca 727-100, a SAM 720B and an Aerocondor 720B parked side by side at EOH! If I do, I'll be sure to post i

That would be great to see! This all makes me remember when I was a kid back in BGI standing on the observation desk with an AA 707, BW 707, AC DC-8-61, IQ (Caribbean Airways) 707, LI HS-748s, and the big ol' BA 747... I bet it was a lot like EOH. The smell of kerosene and the high-pitched shrill of engines... I used to spend hours watching the planes at the old BGI airport - now it's a huge, concrete monster with no observation areas...

Good ol' days.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 30):
Medellin is one of the most beautiful cities in Colombia..

100% agreement here!

Can anyone remember flying Aerocondor? Was it ACES-like?

Quoting Avianca707359B (Reply 28):
I never used FlightSimulator 2004 before so now I can buy it and spend more countless hours thinking about airplanes.....

It's worse the caffeine - and wait untii you start downloading aircraft and scenery. I spend at least 967 hours a week flying...
 
Southamerica
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:08 am

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 32):
Can anyone remember flying Aerocondor?

Popular opinion has it that the airline offered quite satisfactory services as whole. Remember, however, that Aerocondor wasn't founded in Medellin, but in Barranquilla. The airline did have a significant presence here and flew, among others, several routes from EOH to the northern Caribbean Coast.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Movifoto



As a side note, it's incredible to think that the mountain seen in the background of the picture above is nowadays almost occupied to the top !


SOUTHAMERICA
 
757MDE
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 32):
It's worse the caffeine - and wait untii you start downloading aircraft and scenery. I spend at least 967 hours a week flying...

Say that to me!
I have like 400 hours only on Vatsim!... and I don't know how many offline hours plus like 120 from IVAO. I don't have a life anyways.

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 32):
Can anyone remember flying Aerocondor? Was it ACES-like?

Well I don't remember flying Aerocóndor because when they went bust there were still some years for me to be born.
But I know an ex Aerocóndor Pilot and I'm very good friends with his son (he flew Curtiss C-46, Lockheed Electra L-188, 720 and 707 with Aerocóndor and would have flown A300, then he flew DC-8 with Arca Cargo and nowadays flies a King Air 350 and it's about to retire).

For what I've known at its peak Aerocóndor was a very good Airline, good service and modern Airplanes (for its time), but had greedy owners (three different groups of people managed it during its lifetime) and a bad management crisis killed the Airline, in their last weeks the service was bad and they had lots of maintenance problems. The Pilots held negociations with the government for a year to save the Airline but it was liquidated in the end.

I'm going to post some pictures my friend (the Captain's son) sent to me, we don't know where do they come from, so if the pictures are copyrighted or the owner wants them properly credited or removed don't hesitate to contact me.
We think they were all taken at EOH (that's the topic!) but I'm not so really sure about some of them.


Looks like my FAC-0001 virtual approach!


A300 Allegedly at EOH




Look "Club el Rodeo" sign in the grass










Other Aerocóndor stuff









http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2118/tarjetaaerocondor3wm.jpg

My friend's dad Aerocóndor ID.

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 31):
Thank you very much for all the pictures, but what I specially loved is the 720 approach plate. Those kind of things are real aviation history! If you have more of them, please show us, I love it.

Thanks very much and kind regards

Cheers
Legacy135

I used to have lots of them but lost them in a hard disk crash some months ago... I only found other old chart from BOG (1981 year), but maybe I could get more in some time...



[Edited 2006-03-22 06:29:55]
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
757MDE
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:14 am

Just giving it a little pump for interested people to see the pictures (they usually log in at this time and I replied latee in the night)
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
Southamerica
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:14 am

Wonderful pictures. It's interesting to see how dramatically have the surroundings of runway 01 changed during all these years. It seems like Campos de Paz has eaten quite a large stake from El Rodeo.

I also noticed that back then, the threshold of runway 01 was exactly where the asphalt began, and not displaced as it is right now. The plane in the fouth picture was sure coming in low.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
757MDE
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:03 am

Yes, I also had a picture of an Avianca 727 coming as low as the Electra, it was like common in that time.

Campos de Paz has eaten a big stake of El Rodeo indeed, in fact, I didn't know El Rodeo reached almost to the runway!


For Legacy135:

I found this piece of logbook belonging to the my friend's dad as well, I would classify it as Aviation history as well, you might be interested. Click on it to see it bigger:

Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:16 am

GREAT PICS of Aerocondor.. I love that livery!

Thanks man!!!
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
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turk223
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:31 am

I never expected to ever start a topic that would seem to interest people this much! I thought I was the only one who was into knowing more about EOH - thanks for all the great pictures and replies.

When was 13R/31L built at BOG, by the way?

I remember seeing a picture of a Tampa DC-8 that overran the runway at EOH... Was I mistaken? Besides that well-known accident that killed Carlos Gardel in the 30s, were there ever any other accidents at EOH? A little morbid a question, but just curious...

Does anyone know if Aerocondor flew to MIA from EOH?

Did SAM perform its maintenance at EOH and if so, where were the hangars? What about ACES?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I have a feeling I have a good chance to get answers!
 
757MDE
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:02 am

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 39):
I never expected to ever start a topic that would seem to interest people this much! I thought I was the only one who was into knowing more about EOH - thanks for all the great pictures and replies.

You're welcome quasi-paisano!

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 39):
When was 13R/31L built at BOG, by the way?

If I recall correctly the licitation was closed in 1995 and the runway entered service in 1998 amidst a big turmoil among the NYMBYS because of the noise and stuff...
I've always wondered why people build close to the Airports if they don't like noise... the Airports were there first. That's just me anyway.

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 39):
I remember seeing a picture of a Tampa DC-8 that overran the runway at EOH... Was I mistaken? Besides that well-known accident that killed Carlos Gardel in the 30s, were there ever any other accidents at EOH? A little morbid a question, but just curious...

When Tampa acquired their first DC-8 they already operated from MDE. They only operated 707s and DC-6s from EOH.
There's been some accidents indeed at EOH, a 707 precisely from Tampa crashed after take-off in the early 80s, I think an Aerocóndor freighter Canadair CL-44 crashed, at least one ACES' twin otter crashed as well. A Let 410 from Heliandes in 2001 few minutes after take off... and there must have been more that I don't know. Also lots of general Aviation crashes, I witnessed one myself as I was in the Runway when a light plane took off and crashed, the Pilot died.


This one crashed after taking off from EOH.

Although it was not Tampa's, there was indeed a DC-8 that overran the Runway at EOH, it belonged to defunct LAC Cargo (Líneas Aéreas del Caribe).


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Juan Fernando Londoño Restrepo




MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Juan Fernando Londoño Restrepo
MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Juan Fernando Londoño Restrepo



Quoting Turk223 (Reply 39):
Does anyone know if Aerocondor flew to MIA from EOH?

Yes they did. My friend tells me he doesn't remember if it was a full operation or just at peak season or something like that. But flights from EOH to MIA on Aerocóndor happened, 707 and A300 equipment used. I'm still not really sure, don't quote me on this.

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 39):
Did SAM perform its maintenance at EOH and if so, where were the hangars? What about ACES?

I'm not so sure about SAM either, but I read in a Tampa Cargo history maganize that "in the beginning we bought SAM their facilities...", that leads me to think they had a sort of maintenance facilities at EOH, and so did Tampa... I couldn't say where did they, but I dare to guess they were located somewhere where the current Searca, Sarpa or WCA (don't know how much more) hangars are.
Aces had maintenance at EOH for their ATR-42s (and Twin Otters I think) in an hangar that nowadays is used by Aires, close to the military batallion and facing the Clínica de las Américas, in the left side near the threshold of Runway 01. Other maintenance was performed elsewhere (BOG I think but not sure).

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 39):
Sorry to ask so many questions, but I have a feeling I have a good chance to get answers!

Let them come as long as I know I'll be glad to help.
¡Vivan los topics de Colombia!
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
Southamerica
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:20 am

To elaborate a bit more on what Andres mentioned about accidents...

In December of 1983, Tampa was indeed involved in a major accident in Medellin. The aircraft, a Boeing 707 if I recall correctly, went down only seconds after taking off from Medellin bound for Miami. The plane crashed in the airport surroundings, specifically in a plastic factory in 65th avenue. The incident is now remembered basically because of the tremendous fire that it provoked.



I took the picture last January a minute or so after having departed EOH from runway 01.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
Southamerica
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 40):
at least one ACES' twin otter crashed as well.

Right. Though this one happened in the 90s. The TwinOtter was bound for Bahia Solano, and it was already leaving the valley behind. The aircraft crashed in the western mountains. It was a horrible accident, several kids died in it, and the inhabitants of those parts of the city told very touching stories about the incident. Apparently not everybody died instantly after the crash, but managed to survive and then died because of a second explosion. R.I.P

That's the only significant accident I recall regarding a TwinOtter, after many years of continued operations from EOH.


SOUTHAMERICA
 
757MDE
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 41):
December of 1983, Tampa was indeed involved in a major accident in Medellin.

To elaborate a bit more now that I found the Tampa magazine and to add to Fede's great picture.

From Tampa's 30th aniversary magazine:
It's the whole history of Tampa narrated mostly in first person by Jorge Coulson, one of its founders... here's the extract corresponding the 707 crash.

"... It looked like bad luck was the constant.
On December 14th 1983 we had a crash. I was in that moment in a meeting at Bogotá with the custom trying to solve our problems, when the "Negro" Molina called me, he was like our operations director. He told me an Airplane went to take off but had to abort the take off as an engine had failed because the Airport's grass had been cut and lots of grass entered the engine.
They had made several try outs but there was no way to fix the engine, so he wanted to ask me for permission to unload the cargo and do a ferry flight to Miami (with only 3 engines operating). As this Airplanes had the capacity to fly on three engines, I authorized the flight.

Some hours later I was called to give me the tragic news that the Airplane, a 707 registered as HK-2401 had crashed close to the runway of the Olaya Herrera Airport in Medellín.
Unfortunately there were problems, the Airplane was pulled before it had enough speed to maintain lift and two of our best Captains died. The crew was: Captain Hugo Molina Jaraba; copilot, the Captain Pedro Ramírez and the flight engineer George Gilbert.

That day marked the history of Colombian Aviation; after that crash the Aerocivil sugested that two Captains shouldn't fly in the same Airplane in the same flight.

There were lots of confusing feelings, I think that that day, in part, I was reborn; it's a very weird story.
That day, my sister Joanne wanted to fly to the USA via Tampa and the "Negro" Molina didn't want to let her inside the Airplane because of the problems it had; She begged but he didn't let her travel. Besides, we were distributing jeeps, we assembled in Medellín, in a warehouse close to the Airport, and the Villegas were the people that imported them.
We paid for them and sent them to them, but when we realized, they were in bankruptcy and pulled us with them by not paying us the debts they had with us. We had to close early and return the warehouse in which we operated. My brother and my nephews worked there. Because of life coincidences, that was the warehouse the Airplane crashed into, and we had returned it 15 days before.
That day we lost an excellent crew and one Airplane, but god didn't want me to lose my brothers and nephews..."

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 42):
The TwinOtter was bound for Bahia Solano

Indeed, I've also heard people saying that the Pilot flew over somewhere he shouldn't be flying because he had a farm around and wanted to show his family, but that's gossip.

The Airplane crashed against Padre Amaya mountain at 7140 feet (EOH's altitude is of 4900 feet) and is said to have been overloaded by some 170 kilos.
Here's some of the causes as per the Aerocivil report:

"PROBABLE CAUSES: Failure by the crew in the flying technique applicated during the take off phase, by not evaluating the Airplane's performance in regards to the high weight it had and the obstacles to overcome in the flight path.

Contributing factors:
-Errors presented in the dispatch, as the weights weren't totalized correctly, possibly due to errors in the cargo and non-accompanied baggage management.
-Indulgence attitude by the crew, due to excellent meteorological conditions that caused a confidence excess in the flight planning of the crew."
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
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turk223
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:43 pm

Again, more great postings. You have no idea, Andrés, Federico, and Ricardo, how much I appreciate your stories and comments!

¡Les agradezco mucho!

I can't imagine how horrific the Tampa 707 crash must have been. So close to Cerro Nutibara too...

I have other - tons actually - questions but I think I'll start them in another new topic so I can maybe attract other Colombian aviation lovers...

Bueno, de nuevo gracias por todas las anécdotas y fotos. Espero que nos conozcamos un día en Medellín. Con el interés que tenemos en común es probable que seamos amigos...
 
bongo
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 40):
There's been some accidents indeed at EOH, a 707 precisely from Tampa crashed after take-off in the early 80s, I think an Aerocóndor freighter Canadair CL-44 crashed, at least one ACES' twin otter crashed as well. A Let 410 from Heliandes in 2001 few minutes after take off... and there must have been more that I don't know. Also lots of general Aviation crashes, I witnessed one myself as I was in the Runway when a light plane took off and crashed, the Pilot died.

You forgot to mention what I think is the most important crash (historically): When Argentinean/French (whatever) tango singer Carlos Gardel died in 1.935 during take off.
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
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turk223
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 39):
Besides that well-known accident that killed Carlos Gardel in the 30s, were there ever any other accidents at EOH?

Yep, I mentioned that one - it must be the most well-known I'm guessing.... It seems there was some controversy about that accident; was it something to do with a drunk pilot?
 
757MDE
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RE: Olaya Herrera Questions*

Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:45 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 45):
You forgot to mention what I think is the most important crash (historically): When Argentinean/French (whatever) tango singer Carlos Gardel died in 1.935 during take off.

I didn't mention it because Russ asked for other accidents besides that one, but you're right, it's the most important historically speaking.
Besides that one I've let lots of accidents behind (most of them I know nothing anyways besides the fact that they happened).
Anybody remembers the Airplane that crash landed against a road like a year and a half ago because it was damaged and couldn't make it to the Runway?

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 46):
Yep, I mentioned that one - it must be the most well-known I'm guessing.... It seems there was some controversy about that accident; was it something to do with a drunk pilot?

I don't really know much about that accident.
I just know it was a crash between two planes of rival companies SCADTA and SACO (it's paradox that their merger gave birth to current Avianca) and more than the rivalry between them it's said that one of the causes of the crash was the personal problems between Ernesto Samper Mendoza (the grandfather of former president Ernesto Samper Pizano, was piloting the SACO plane) and Hans Ulrich Thom (SCADTA pilot).

Some other people say there was a fight in Gardel's airplane and somebody shot the Pilot death in the fight (they found a bullet wound in the Pilot's body, that's a fact I think) and the Airplane went out of control and crashed against the other. Other factors were the conditions of Olaya Herrera Airport that in that time were even worse, I don't even know if proper ATC was working, I read somewhere it was mostly uncontrolled making it veeery dangerous besides the topological conditions. It was called "Las Playas" in that time if I remember correctly what I read, and wasn't exactly an Airport or "Airfield", was more of a surface prepared for landings.

To this days I still think the real cause hasn't been known, even though there's an "official report", which most people disagree with.


This is one of the most famous pictures of the event, taken minutes before the crash. It's said the camera survived because of some sort of leather package it had that prevented it from burning so the picture could be saved. If I'm not wrong the bald man is Ernesto Samper Mendoza, ex president's Samper grandfather.

More things about the accident can be read at
http://www.todotango.com/spanish/gardel/cronicas/medellin.html (in Spanish) or
http://www.todotango.com/english/gardel/cronicas/medellin.html (in English)

Some info appears as well in German Castro Caycedo's book "El Alcaraván", I highly recommend it not only for Gardel's accident, but also Colombian Aviation in general and eastern plains one specially, one of the people mentioned on that book died in Olaya Herrera as well in another accident where a little Airplane took off and crashed against a house some 2 - 3 years ago (anybody remembers?)

Quoting Turk223 (Reply 44):
Again, more great postings. You have no idea, Andrés, Federico, and Ricardo, how much I appreciate your stories and comments!

¡Les agradezco mucho!

I can't imagine how horrific the Tampa 707 crash must have been. So close to Cerro Nutibara too...

I have other - tons actually - questions but I think I'll start them in another new topic so I can maybe attract other Colombian aviation lovers...

Bueno, de nuevo gracias por todas las anécdotas y fotos. Espero que nos conozcamos un día en Medellín. Con el interés que tenemos en común es probable que seamos amigos...

¡De nada!
I'll be glad to answer your questions if I have an answer or at least can contribute to have some clarity in their regard.

A mí si me interesaría que nos encontráramos cuando vinieras a Medellín.
¡Me avisas!

[Edited 2006-03-24 00:52:00]
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...

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