Caymanair
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Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:00 am

The Airports in GCM and CYB are currently being upgraded. I hope that Cayman's government will spend some $$ on Cayman Airways too. The airline will never make money (its not really supposed to), but we should really get the best service possible if we know that.

Cayman Airways currently has a fleet of 2x 737-300, 3x 737-200, and 2x Twin Otters. They fly from GCM to Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, Kingston, Montegobay, Havana, Tampa, Orlando, Boston, Houston, and Chicago with interisland service between GCM, CYB, and LCM.

I wish that they could finally replace the 732's with 733's, and increase their fleet to include 8x 733's.

Additional flights like GCM-LCE-MIA, GCM-RTB-MIA, GCM-GND-SVG-POS, GCM-Provodenciales/ grand turk-MIA, and GCM-Provodenciales/ grand turk-BGI-POS would be both managable and popular. It would be great if they finally had the aircraft they need to expand properly. They always seem to want to expand, but never have the proper financing to do so. They have also been interested in flying from GCM to DEN, YYZ, YUL, LAX, and JFK in the past.

I think Cayman can support some regional expansion (not alot though, once or twice weekly on some sectors) as well as provided services to other CARICOM nationals, while at the same time promoting Cayman abroad.

What do you think? Should Cayman Airways continue to expand? What might work?

Donovon
 
georgiabill
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:19 am

Agreed Cayman needs to replace their 732'S. The question then becomes does the inital savings of leasing or buying additional 733'S versus 737NG'S or A320's over a peroid of 7yrs become offset by higher fuel costs and maintenance. Perhaps it would be wiser to spend additional capital and buy or lease the 737NG family or A320 family of aircraft. As for expansion I believe there are opportunities to consider. Increasing fleet utilization can only benefit the bottom line if the route expansion is carefully analyzed
 
ATLgaUSA
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:00 pm

It would probably be easier and more profitable to pay Air Jamaica to make stops in GCM on some of its flights from MBJ/KIN to the US.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:54 pm

Wouldn't one think that TA, LA or CM could be interested in KY?
IMHO, The B737 could be too much, maybe a fleet of E190/170/135/120 may prove to be better for that airline.
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ERJ170
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:00 am

Woulnd't it be easier for Cayman, Bahamasair, and Air Jamaica to just merge and call themselves Carib Airways.. and just have a hub at each of the islands.. then they can pool money and order the 10x E75, 10x E90, and 20x 738.. keep their DH8.. and open up routes around North, Central, and South America? If they want to keep their trademark.. do what US Airways did and have a retro plane for each airline...

Just a thought..
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BigGSFO
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:03 am

Cayman Airways is interested in GCM-DEN? Is it just me or is that an odd destination for a Caribbean airline.

[Edited 2006-03-20 16:04:22]
 
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drerx7
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 5):
Cayman Airways is interested in GCM-DEN? Is it just me or is that an odd destination for a Caribbean airline.

Seems like a perfect niche--according to the weather channel it hasn't been exactly snorkling weather in Denver the past few days.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:58 am

Caymans is suffering a bit of competition from St Lucia and Barbados more of late.

With the US and Canada on their doorsteps.. they should explore this as much as they can.

As for inter caribbean island traffic.. i'd have a few doubts, though the Caymans has the largest percentage employment and one of the few caribbean islands which needs more labour than it has population and so has immigrant workers.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
cayman
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:47 am

I will tell you one route they should try for GCM SJU.

There is tons of traffic from GCM to the other islands--both busines and pleasure--and lots of business between Cayman and BVI. Getting from GCM to BVI or any of the other islands in the SJU connecting area is literally a nightmare--a flight to MIA first and then the awful MIA immigration and customs line only to transfer (most likely) on to a MIA SJU flight and then another island hopper. Lucky to do it in a day.

Daily or even 3 or 4x weekly GCM SJU service timed to fit with inter island service out of SJU would have serious potential. I have often been surprised that AA have not considered this.

Another thing--this aplies to Cayman Airways but Cayman in general as well: in the post 9/11 security world I am not sure if US will consider adding any new pre-clerance islands such as Bahamas and Bermuda (and I think a couple others, in aditio to numerous Cdn airports)--but I can tell you that travel to and from Cayman and the US can be a real nightmare given the often horrible lines at immigration when arriving in US especially in MIA. i cannot understand why a pre-clearance facility in GCM was not established years ago-there is lots of traffic (or there was pre Ivan and should recover) between US and Cayman Islands.

When I lived in cayman I had numerous cients specifically either complain about or decline to travel down on business because of what were often ridiculous lineups at customs going back. Depending on time of day you can be 50/50 that GCM MIA you will spend as much time or more time in immigration and customs line at MIA than you will be in air from GCM--and that is tough ot take-whereas leaving Bahamas or Bermuda the lines usualy go smoothly and quickly and you arrive in US on a "domestic" gate and proceed to get your bags.

As to KY adding YYZ--I think that market is already tapped by AC--especially given the large Cdn ex pat community in Cayman---and many that would have to connect on to an AC flight out of YYZ anyway to get back to YVR YYC YEG YHT etc--so why fly GCM YYZ on KY then have to book onto AC anyway. Of course maybe they could code share? And GCM YUL would never be justified as a stand alone route even considering that KY is not really set up to make profit. There just is not nearly enough business.
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:54 am

Quoting 2travel2know:
Wouldn't one think that TA, LA or CM could be interested in KY?
IMHO, The B737 could be too much, maybe a fleet of E190/170/135/120 may prove to be better for that airline.

Or a mixed fleet of 190's/195's for inter-island service and cut the service to just the US and Jamaica. With that service make their planes all A319's and use them for service to IAH, MIA, and IAD. Use IAD and MIA as a codeshare with AA, and UL making most of the flight from there on KY. Use IAH as a possible one but focus on thoes two cities. Also make the airline low cost.
Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
 
flyyul
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:16 am

CayMan.

Who are you to make such a bold statement on why Montreal-Grand Cayman would not work?

Do you have any quantitative and qualitative data that would support your "opinion".

I'm not saying that YUL-GCM would be profitable, because I am clearly not in a position to comment. However, If Caymanair is indeed looking at YUL (assuming they are), then there must be a potential for profit. Perhaps they know something you dont.

Food for thought?
 
luv2fly
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:19 am

The problem for Caymen Islands is compared with other Islands to chose from the Caymens are very expensive in comparison!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
cayman
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:05 pm

Quoting Flyyul (Reply 10):
Who are you to make such a bold statement on why Montreal-Grand Cayman would not work?

A Canadian professional who worked for several years in Grand Cayman, is quite familair with the makeup of the demographic mix of the Cdn ex pat population in the islands, who did business with countless Canadian companies with a presence in the islands and who knew professionally and personally some of the senior management and sales staff of KY. GCM is not a tourist or business destination out of YUL, Mark, although I realize you troll these forums searching for any comments perceived to be negative to Montreal--the market just isn't there. You may have noticed that I also said i didn't think there was a market for KY even on the YYZ route.

You really need to get over this inferiority issue Mark when any topic involving expansion or potential expansion into YUL comes up. One can, believe it or not, question wwhether there is a viable market without insulting the city, the airport or perhaps you.

Quoting Flyyul (Reply 10):
I'm not saying that YUL-GCM would be profitable, because I am clearly not in a position to comment. However, If Caymanair is indeed looking at YUL (assuming they are), then there must be a potential for profit. Perhaps they know something you dont.

Emphasis on "assuming." I don't believe they are or ever have been seriously looking at YUL and if they were it was so far down their list of potential expansion cities. There is one fatal flaw in your logic beyond that--when you say there must be a potential for profit if they are looking at it--evidently you know precious little about the KY business model--it is not set up to make profit so much as to serve as a kind of extesnion of the tourism department in promoting the islands. Read the original posters comment himself stating that it will never make money and isn't supposed to. But it needs to bring pax to the island, and it has very little potential for doing so from YUL as compared to the many other destinations that it could serve first.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting CayMan (Reply 12):
Read the original posters comment himself stating that it will never make money and isn't supposed to. But it needs to bring pax to the island, and it has very little potential for doing so from YUL as compared to the many other destinations that it could serve first.

The thing is that, the exchange rate for Canadians is not favorable, and Canadians are more likely to go to an Islands that offers an all inclusive vacations package. Even for the US visitors the exhange sucks, it is double the suck factor for the Canadian visitors.
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JAFA
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting Caymanair (Thread starter):
Additional flights like GCM-LCE-MIA, GCM-RTB-MIA, GCM-GND-SVG-POS, GCM-Provodenciales/ grand turk-MIA, and GCM-Provodenciales/ grand turk-BGI-POS would be both managable and popular.

Why would anyone want to make those stops, when non-stops exists in just about all thsoe markets?
Caymanair will never be a big airline. I admire Air Jamaica for trying the hub concept but its not working for them, and I don't see it working for Cayman.
The only expansion I see for Cayman airways is to have a premium cabin product from places like ORD, JFK. They would be looking for the upper end of the market. Short flights to MIA don't require a preimum cabin. I say dump the 737's and get with the E170-195. Additional lift could be obtained for the high season through aircraft leasing (like Ryan Inernational).
 
luisca
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:22 pm

CM had code shared with Cayman on PTY-GCM charter flights in the past, I remember reading a few months ago that CM and Cayman were interested in a permanent flight to CGM from PTY operated by Cayman and then connecting to CM's morning flight banks.

Maybe CM would be interested in buying a piece of Cayman, that would give them great access to the Caribbean.

[Edited 2006-03-21 04:31:59]
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thomasphoto60
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:28 pm

There was a rumour on this forum sometime last year that IAH was on the chopping block. Any more info on this?

Thomas
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steeler83
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:40 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
Woulnd't it be easier for Cayman, Bahamasair, and Air Jamaica to just merge and call themselves Carib Airways.. and just have a hub at each of the islands.. then they can pool money and order the 10x E75, 10x E90, and 20x 738.. keep their DH8.. and open up routes around North, Central, and South America? If they want to keep their trademark.. do what US Airways did and have a retro plane for each airline...

I like that idea very much... Keep the smaller planes for their "island hopping" routes and short US and South American routes to places like MIA, and Carakas (I don't think that's spelled right) and have the 738 serve the longer US/Canadian and South American routes from the islands...
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MajorNelson
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:49 pm

Quoting Caymanair (Thread starter):
Additional flights like GCM-LCE-MIA, GCM-RTB-MIA, GCM-GND-SVG-POS,

SVG? Stavanger, Norway? Wow - stretching it for a 733.
And LCE and RTB? Why?
I turn Tops into Bottoms.
 
steeler83
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:00 pm

Quoting MajorNelson (Reply 18):
SVG? Stavanger, Norway? Wow - stretching it for a 733.

Maybe he meant CVG...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
MajorNelson
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 19):
Maybe he meant CVG...

Lets have a look at our geography, shall we? GrandCayman-Grenada-Cincinnati-Port Of Spain?

Ummmm .. no.
I turn Tops into Bottoms.
 
Caymanair
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:03 pm

Quoting MajorNelson (Reply 18):
SVG? Stavanger, Norway? Wow - stretching it for a 733.

oops....well it was more of a guess than anything, but I meant St. Vincent.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 17):
Woulnd't it be easier for Cayman, Bahamasair, and Air Jamaica to just merge and call themselves Carib Airways.. and just have a hub at each of the islands.. then they can pool money and order the 10x E75, 10x E90, and 20x 738.. keep their DH8.. and open up routes around North, Central, and South America? If they want to keep their trademark.. do what US Airways did and have a retro plane for each airline...

aint gonna happen.......

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 16):
There was a rumour on this forum sometime last year that IAH was on the chopping block. Any more info on this?

well Cayman Airways was considering it last year, and even reduced frequenmcies to 2x weekly, but they have incresed frequencies again for summer, so it seems they have changed their mind

Quoting JAFA (Reply 14):
Why would anyone want to make those stops, when non-stops exists in just about all thsoe markets?

well i was just thinking that Bwee does well on flights like their daily POS-BGI-ANU-KIN, and maybe somehow KX could duplicate something similar

Quoting Luisca (Reply 15):
Maybe CM would be interested in buying a piece of Cayman, that would give them great access to the Caribbean.

Cayman government would never allow it. Politics.....

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 11):
The problem for Caymen Islands is compared with other Islands to chose from the Caymens are very expensive in comparison!

thats not so much of a problem though.....our tourism model is built to accomodate tourists who can pay. while we do trty to maintain a fair amount of diversification, Cayman makes it very clear that we are a luxury market, and any travel agaent will tell you that about Cayman before anything else.

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 9):
cut the service to just the US and Jamaica



Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 9):
Also make the airline low cost.

ummm......its pretty clear you dont know much about Cayman, so let me try to enlighten you. If anyone was to announce to Caymanians that their airline was to become a low cost carrier, theyd through a tantrum.

and cutting servise to just US and Jamaica isn't a smart idea, especially not when you consider how profitable a route like GCM-HAV is in comparison to dimal losses on BOS, ORD, and IAH

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 4):
they can pool money

what money? these airlines have been bankrupt for 30 years

Quoting ATLgaUSA (Reply 2):
It would probably be easier and more profitable to pay Air Jamaica to make stops in GCM on some of its flights from MBJ/KIN to the US.

might work in the future, but Cayman Airways is an insurance policy. Cayman really can't expect Air Jamaica to provide the same service when they have to look out for the interests of Jamaica. I also think CIGOV would not be too enthused to have tourists arriving on a plane with the competitions name stamped on it.


wow.....hope i contributed something useful
 
luv2fly
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting Caymanair (Reply 21):
Cayman makes it very clear that we are a luxury market, and any travel agaent will tell you that about Cayman before anything else.

No, first there are more Islands that have a higher visibility factor and way more air service, and offer more in the way of hotels and options.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:02 am

Any chance Cayman Airways will reach to Mother England? Maybe a 767 or an 330 to London or Manchester via Bermuda, Cuba or Fort Lauderdale? The pesky visa requirement always gets in the way, but I would think a GCM-FLL-LGW/MAN 2-3X week could work.
 
komododx
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:50 am

I still find it akward the suggestion that Caymanair would fly GCM-LCE-MIA or GCM-RTB-MIA. It makes much more sense to fly LCE/RTB to GCM then to MIA. Then again RTB already has a MIA connection with TA and will soon get a second one with AA.

GCM-LCE-MIA


GCM-RTB-MIA



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Caymanair
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting Komododx (Reply 24):
I still find it akward the suggestion that Caymanair would fly GCM-LCE-MIA or GCM-RTB-MIA. It makes much more sense to fly LCE/RTB to GCM then to MIA. Then again RTB already has a MIA connection with TA and will soon get a second one with AA.

i didnt realyy mean it to connect Cayman with Miami, but to connect Cayman with Honduras and Honduras to Miami.
 
MajorNelson
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting Caymanair (Reply 21):
oops....well it was more of a guess than anything, but I meant St. Vincent.

That makes a bit more sense! I wasnt aware St Vincent had an airport that cld handle a 737. Would be a good niche, I think.
I turn Tops into Bottoms.
 
flyyul
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:58 am

Cayman,

Where is your market size data, average fare data, market share data?

Your anecdotal ramblings are not worth much to this discussion sadly.
 
Caymanair
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RE: Fixing Cayman Airways: Once And For All

Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:54 am

Quoting FLYYUL (Reply 27):
Cayman,

Where is your market size data, average fare data, market share data?

Your anecdotal ramblings are not worth much to this discussion sadly.

well none of us have very much data if any.