lijnden
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737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:41 am

Why are most cargo planes wide-bodies/long range planes and not B737-300/400's or MD-80's for short range?

It seems to me that most cargo airliners and also airlines like UAL, KLM and LH are skipping this segment (I know that FedEx, UPS and DHL had some 727's)

Would a low cost cargo airline like Easy Cargo or Southwest Cargo with 737's make sense?
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pavlin
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:50 am

I think there are some 737-200 flying cargo. But in future there will be even a320 and 737NG reconfigured to cargo
 
JRadier
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:45 am

TNT is flying 733F, Europe Airpost is flying 733QC's...
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
Avianca
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:55 am

Quoting Lijnden (Thread starter):
It seems to me that most cargo airliners and also airlines like UAL, KLM and LH are skipping this segment

airlines liek UAL, KLM, LH are using the scheduled short-haul flights for smaller cargo and linehaul-trucks for bigger "aircargo" even if its transported on trucks.

Quoting Lijnden (Thread starter):
Why are most cargo planes wide-bodies/long range planes and not B737-300/400's or MD-80's for short range?

there are many cargo airplanes arround in this segment... all over the world
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dogfighter2111
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:56 am

I have seen many B737F's (B732F's and B733F's) and have always wondered why the A320 isn't a better option to use rather than B737's but i came up with the following ideas:

- B732's and B733's are converted to Freighter after many years of PAX service.

- The A320 fuselage shape isn't 'Bulgy' enough like a B737F. Containers don't fit in as well as a B737?

But, if the A320 Freighter is Economically possible then i can't wait to see them.

On another note, i don't know if Low-Cost freight would work. I am sure that FR has already thought of this possibility.

Thanks
Mike
 
gigneil
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:57 am

There is a metric fuckton of 727s flying as cargo planes for the shorthaul... and lots of props.

N
 
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N328KF
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 5):
There is a metric fuckton of 727s flying as cargo planes

What's that in SAE?

Anyhow, right now, isn't the Navy the biggest 737 cargo operator?
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
gigneil
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 4):
- The A320 fuselage shape isn't 'Bulgy' enough like a B737F. Containers don't fit in as well as a B737?

Nah. The A320 is a better fuse for cargo. You can fit containers on both decks, whereas a 737 the lower holds are bulk only.

Quoting N328KF (Reply 6):
Anyhow, right now, isn't the Navy the biggest 737 cargo operator?

New ones, for sure. They're the only operator of the 737-700C.

N
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:31 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):

Ohh, i never knew that. I always thought that the main deck on the B737 was fatter and could carry more pallets.

Thanks
Mike
 
acidradio
Crew
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:44 am

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 4):
But, if the A320 Freighter is Economically possible then i can't wait to see them.

There aren't that many older 2nd hand A320s to be had just yet. Typically, these freighters are converted from passenger service after many years of service. Once A320s start to retire from service, you may see them serve a second lifetime as a freighter.
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gunsontheroof
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:50 am

I've often wondered about this myself whenever I catch Alaska or Kitty Hawk 737s in cargo configuration coming into SEA. They're certainly a rare treat.
 
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N328KF
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 7):
New ones, for sure. They're the only operator of the 737-700C.

ARAMCO has some, too.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
boeingguy1
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:54 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 5):
metric fuckton of 727s

I was litterally rolling on the floor laughing on this one- welcome to my respected users list... ROFL!!!
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gunsontheroof
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:54 am

Here's a rather unusual example that I found...


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gigneil
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 11):
ARAMCO has some, too.

I completely forgot about them.

N
 
AADC10
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:15 am

Isn't part of the reason that narrowbodies see limited use as freighters is that they do not efficiently carry the LD3 cans (this is a notable shortcoming for the 767 as well)? Since cargo often has to take more than one flight, it is far more efficient to pack an LD3, transfer it from flight to flight as necessary and have it arrive at the destination. If it is a bunch of loose cartons, they are far more likely to get lost, just like your baggage.
 
PanAm747
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:17 am

And don't forget Aloha's 737-200's:


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If you've never seen one of these things being loaded for an inter-island flight, you wouldn't believe the amounts of cargo these things haul.

In a sense, they are freighters that just happen to carry passengers.
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gigneil
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:18 am

The 737-200 is quite the successful little combi... mostly because of its engine clearance and available gravel kit.

Alaska's 737-200Cs I was convinced would live forever.

N
 
swissy
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:21 am

Well the 320 is still "new" and I am sure we will see them being converted over
to freighters in the near future.

Airborne (today DHL) also has some DC9.....

Cheers,
 
EZEIZA
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:42 pm

here's another ...

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Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:45 pm

Quoting ASAFA (Reply 19):

I'm assuming that's the first 734 to complete freighter conversion...looks great. It'll be sad to see the 732 combis go...
 
vegasplanes
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:58 pm

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 1):
I think there are some 737-200 flying cargo.

We have Sierra Pacific here out west hauling freight with 732's. I have seen them in TUS, BOI, and LAS. Do not know what they do or where they fly.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:01 pm

Quoting ASAFA (Reply 19):
Well you will soon see many more of them.

Awesome photo!!!

I wanna see one of the QCs . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
HPRamper
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:11 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 10):
I've often wondered about this myself whenever I catch Alaska or Kitty Hawk 737s in cargo configuration coming into SEA. They're certainly a rare treat.

We don't see the cargo AS planes here in PDX, but since Kitty Hawk has ramped up their operation here, and moved out of the Airtrans complex and into the South Cargo area, I've seen a cargo 737 (looks like a 733) often. Seems to alternate between a 737 and a 727.
 
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yyz717
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:19 pm

Quoting Lijnden (Thread starter):
Why are most cargo planes wide-bodies/long range planes and not B737-300/400's or MD-80's for short range?

It's largely generational. The oldest 733's date from 1984+ and are being converted to cargo with increasing frequency after 20y of pax service. The oldest 734's are younger and will likely follow en masse beginning around 2010. Similar timeframe to the DC-8-61/63, 721, 722, and 752 before.

Some airframes will likely never see cargo conversion en masse:
1. The 735: too small a clearance between the engine and fwd fuselage.
2. The M80: poor LD3 compatibility.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:39 pm

Quite a few carriers use or have used the 'baby boeing' as a freight dog over the years.


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Thomas
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ikramerica
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:12 pm

One thing that might hurt the A320 as a cargo plane is that it is higher off the ground than the 727/737 so that they would require higher lifting ground equipment to load it them, the equipment used for 757s. That would limit some of the airports they could be used at without ground equipment upgrades.

That would be a minor problem for many airports, however.
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flydreamliner
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:17 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 5):
There is a metric fuckton of 727s flying as cargo planes for the shorthaul.

You'd think $65 a barrel oil prices would start to numb cargo line's taste for fuel thirsty antiquated old airliners that are all done with pax service like 727.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
N730AS
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:38 pm

Don't forget my namesake....N730AS  Big grin
Big version: Width: 640 Height: 492 File size: 84kb


P.S. does anyone know if A/C 730 is still in service? and if so, when is she due to be sent to the desert?
N730AS (s/n 22577) 737-290C Registered Jun-29-1981
 
columba
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:54 pm

Lufthansa used 737-200 combis as frieighters with German Cargo and Lufthansa Cargo. They were taken out of service in the late 90s.
Cargo within Germany and Europe mostly travel within the cargo bay of regular passengers aircrafts so they don´t need any narrow body freighter aircraft.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
JJMNGR
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:29 pm

VASP were flying 03 of their B732F before closing doors. There is only one B732F operating in Brazil on behalf of Rico Airlines. They operate some mail routes duing the night.
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:34 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 24):
We don't see the cargo AS planes here in PDX, but since Kitty Hawk has ramped up their operation here, and moved out of the Airtrans complex and into the South Cargo area, I've seen a cargo 737 (looks like a 733) often. Seems to alternate between a 737 and a 727.

I haven't looked at PDX much, but SEA seems to see at least one AS 732 combi a day. I almost always see one on flytecomm or flightaware, and I've seen an AS 732 at the Alaska Cargo building the last three times I've taken off from SEA. Kittyhawk's 733 to PDX may be a continuation of the SEA flight.
 
columba
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:35 pm

Quoting Swissy (Reply 18):
Well the 320 is still "new" and I am sure we will see them being converted over
to freighters in the near future.

EADS and Irkut signed an agreement for a joint venture company that will convert A320s into freighters. The company will be based in Russia.

Link in German:
http://www.cargoforum.de/modules.php...=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=4254#4254
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
andz
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:51 pm

Here's another one:


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After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
memphis
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:16 pm

back in the day. . .


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[Edited 2006-03-21 14:18:31]
nocturnal
 
swissy
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:21 pm

[quote=Columba,reply=33]EADS and Irkut signed an agreement for a joint venture company that will convert A320s into freighters. The company will be based in Russia.

Yes, that is what I was talking about it however lets hope there are lots of
320 air frames available to convert them over........

[quote=Ikramerica,reply=27]One thing that might hurt the A320 as a cargo plane is that it is higher off the ground than the 727/737 so that they would require higher lifting ground equipment to load it them, the equipment used for 757s. That would limit some of the airports they could be used at without ground equipment upgrades

All equipment (K-loaders & Belt Loaders)used on the 727'&737's freighters will work on the 320.....

I am sure these 320 will look awesome in the UPs, Fedex, DHL colors....

Cheers,
 
gigneil
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:21 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 28):

You'd think $65 a barrel oil prices would start to numb cargo line's taste for fuel thirsty antiquated old airliners that are all done with pax service like 727.

Cargo is far less price sensitive. FedEx and UPS have both just passed their costs along in the terms of fuel surcharges.

Plus, a 727F makes 1, 2, or maybe 3 runs a day and then sits. Its fuel liability is much lower than a 727 in passenger service that makes 3+ runs a day.

I fully concur that 737-300s and A320s would drive down fuel costs for these operators but their cost of ownership vs. their revenue potential might even that analysis out.

N
 
FLALEFTY
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 37):
I fully concur that 737-300s and A320s would drive down fuel costs for these operators but their cost of ownership vs. their revenue potential might even that analysis out.

With 737-300s and 400s hitting the second-hand market in numbers, and pretty cheap. While the capital costs to convert to freighters would be significant, it would seem that, in the long-run, losing 1 crewman, 1 engine and roughly 15% less fuel burn per trip would result in lower LCCs.
 
swissy
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:05 am

[quote=Gigneil,reply=37] fully concur that 737-300s and A320s would drive down fuel costs for these operators but their cost of ownership vs. their revenue potential might even that analysis out.

In the short term sure you got a good point.......

[quote=FLALEFTY,reply=38]With 737-300s and 400s hitting the second-hand market in numbers, and pretty cheap. While the capital costs to convert to freighters would be significant, it would seem that, in the long-run, losing 1 crewman, 1 engine and roughly 15% less fuel burn per trip would result in lower LCCs.

Also the maintenance on these old birds are quite high compare to the newer
737 and the 320, therefore in the long run it will pay off going with newer
equipment.

Cheers,
 
PEK18R36L
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:23 am

And let's not forget the hard-working letter carriers over at China Postal Airlines, who are finally getting replacements to those An-24s that used to wake me up every morning around 0430:


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 yawn 
In China, everything is possible - but nothing is easy.
 
viv
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:33 am

Here's one - Bluebird Cargo.


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CalAir
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:50 am

The CY A320 that was scrapped not so long ago, was that airframe too old/high time to be viable as a cargo conversion?
British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
 
mhodgson
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:55 am

Jet2 have a few QC 737-300's. As do Titan; I believe both Jet2 and Titan lease/charter their aircraft to Royal Mail
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
FLALEFTY
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting CalAir (Reply 42):
The CY A320 that was scrapped not so long ago, was that airframe too old/high time to be viable as a cargo conversion?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is an active cargo conversion program for A320s launched yet.

As for the CY A320, perhaps the cost of overhauling it, combined with other possible issues like stress damage from too-frequent hard landings and corrosion might have led to the descision to scrap?
 
CptGermany
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Lijnden (Thread starter):
It seems to me that most cargo airliners and also airlines like UAL, KLM and LH are skipping this segment

I believe LH is using their narrow-body short-haul fleet to fly mail throughout Germany during the night. IIRC, the airplanes all leave FRA for bigger German cities (HAM, MUC, DUS, TXL, etc) in a star pattern. So there is some usage of LH's B737 and A320 as pure cargo planes. The seats are protected with special covers and then loaded with mail bags.
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:48 am

It's probably easier and cheaper to fly cargo into big hubs on wide bodies and then use trucks to transport them for a short journey.
Dominic
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ua777222
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:32 am

Sorry if already mentioned,

But isn't WN looking to cargo with their current 737 fleet as a cargo aircraft requires less skin mx which, long-term and short-term, would save money for the airline...

Best.

Matt
"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
 
HikesWithEyes
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 17):
The 737-200 is quite the successful little combi... mostly because of its engine clearance and available gravel kit.

Alaska's 737-200Cs I was convinced would live forever.

The first 737-400 to be converted to an all freight configuration
is supposed to do its first test flights today in Alabama.
The 200's will be gone by the end of next year.
First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
 
FXMD11
Posts: 171
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:45 am

Quoting Columba (Reply 30):
Lufthansa used 737-200 combis as frieighters with German Cargo and Lufthansa Cargo

Yes, these were the old days in their early 90's. I remember that some of these 737's even had a side main frame cargo door. Ahh...the old DC-8's
from German Cargo were a classic too, especially in their Africa Services.


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[Edited 2006-03-21 22:48:18]
 
2travel2know
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RE: 737 As A Cargo Plane

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:48 am

Boeing's website says the B737-700 is available as a Cargo too, but how come not the B737-900?
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