Oykie
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:43 pm

Quote:
Delta Air Lines needs to have a cost-saving agreement with its pilots soon, CEO Gerald Grinstein said yesterday."They have to reach that agreement. We have got to get that done by late spring," he told ATWOnline in Atlanta.

The two sides agreed to arbitrate the company's motion but the pilots have threatened to strike if the arbitrator sides with management and the airline imposes a new contract.

Grinstein warned that Delta "will not survive a 24-hour pilot strike." He also said concern over a strike already has had a negative effect on forward bookings but declined to quantify the impact.


How bad is the situation at Delta?

Read more at: http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=4428

[Edited 2006-03-21 12:44:13]
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deltagator
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:07 pm

Of course he is going to say that trying to strengthen the management position. Personally I think they could survive a 24 to 48 hour strike but it would hurt the bk efforts. Anything beyond that timeframe could very well be the final straw.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
swissy
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:14 pm

I would have to agree wit GG on that one, the rumers are alreday hurting DL,
stop operation for 24 hrs. or more would probable be the final nail in DL's
coven.....
Lets hope they can turn around  Smile

Cheers,
 
panamair
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 1):
Personally I think they could survive a 24 to 48 hour strike but it would hurt the bk efforts. Anything beyond that timeframe could very well be the final straw.

One of the conditions of the GE and/or AMEX DIP financing arranged last year is that the loan can be called in if there is anything more than a 48 hour strike.
 
na
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:42 pm

The most common and generic comment a CEO can make to threaten his employees is to say "We won´t survive a strike". Yawn.
 
kanebear
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:49 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 4):
The most common and generic comment a CEO can make to threaten his employees is to say "We won´t survive a strike". Yawn.

Apparently you weren't reading.

Quoting Panamair (Reply 3):
One of the conditions of the GE and/or AMEX DIP financing arranged last year is that the loan can be called in if there is anything more than a 48 hour strike.

Sounds like a lot more than a yawn to me.
 
Poitin
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 5):
Quoting NA (Reply 4):
The most common and generic comment a CEO can make to threaten his employees is to say "We won´t survive a strike". Yawn.

Apparently you weren't reading.

Yawn  yawn  I was, and I seen this sort of statement for fifty years. DL may well go under, but it will because of management stupidity and this is typical of such management.

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 5):
Quoting Panamair (Reply 3):
One of the conditions of the GE and/or AMEX DIP financing arranged last year is that the loan can be called in if there is anything more than a 48 hour strike.

Sounds like a lot more than a yawn to me.

 yawn  They are going call in a loan and cause the the collapse of the airline and then loose their money. Gimme a break. They will do anything they can go keep that loan going.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
jumbojet
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:44 am

we'll all know in 3 weeks the fate of delta. It's all boiling down to these last three weeks. Then, we will know what the fate of Delta will be. Anyone have any guesses? A last minute DL and DALPA agreement comes to mind for me.
 
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SLCUT2777
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 7):
we'll all know in 3 weeks the fate of delta. It's all boiling down to these last three weeks. Then, we will know what the fate of Delta will be. Anyone have any guesses? A last minute DL and DALPA agreement comes to mind for me.

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ac7e7
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:58 am

You people are nuts. Don't you remember Eastern?

These unions had better start taking what they can get. A cut in pay is much better then not having a job.

If the pilots go on strike, I won't feel bad if DL goes under. There are no jobs for pilots at the moment. The other unions had better start pressuring the pilots, or else its over.
 
Alitalia744
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:53 am

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 9):
If the pilots go on strike, I won't feel bad if DL goes under. There are no jobs for pilots at the moment. The other unions had better start pressuring the pilots, or else its over.

That's the problem AC7E7, there are no unions at Delta. For years, employee relations have been the pinnacle of this industry and the employees never felt the need to unionize.

Hopefully in time the pilots will see their options and make the choice they feel is right. The big question is do you fight for integrity or fight for a better tomorrow?
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Ken777
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 10):
The big question is do you fight for integrity or fight for a better tomorrow?

As someone who (years ago) worked for a company that went under I'm a firm believer in avoiding liquidation. It's nice to make a lot of money, but it's not nice to see a lot of jobs lost - especially when you know the people in those jobs.

The pilots are probably in the best position of all the employees (I understand that EK needs pilots) but they do need to remember the lessons learned at Eastern.

On the management side, I'm a firm believer that they should be taking larger cuts than they ask of their employees. That's the only way to demonstrate that the problem is serious.
 
Lumberton
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:58 am

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 9):
There are no jobs for pilots at the moment.

Maybe not in the U.S. but in certain other markets around the world, there is a shortage of pilots. India, the middle east(?), Philippines,etc. Now I doubt that many of these guys would want to take a job outside the U.S. or relocate their families, but there are vacancies elsewhere.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Alias1024
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 9):
There are no jobs for pilots at the moment

Southwest, JetBlue, Continental, FedEx, and UPS are all hiring in the US. Maybe Frontier as well. Foreign carriers are also hiring, including Emirates and Cathay Pacific.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
Poitin
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 9):
These unions had better start taking what they can get. A cut in pay is much better then not having a job.

Having been unemployed numerious times, I always looked upon unemployment as an opportunity. IF DL can't hack the current market, let them go under. Nobody is going to starve.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
N766UA
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:45 am

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 9):
If the pilots go on strike, I won't feel bad if DL goes under.

What about us, the other employees who are just hanging in the balance? Surely we haven't done anything to deserve losing our jobs. Sure our managment sucks and our pilots are sick of it, but aren't we all? Can you imagine the number of jobs lost just at ATL alone? That place would be a ghost town!
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TL8490
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:49 am

Having been unemployed numerious times, I always looked upon unemployment as an opportunity. IF DL can't hack the current market, let them go under. Nobody is going to starve.[/quote]

Your numerous unemployments couldn't have anything to do with your attitude could it???

Delta will survive and thrive ....the pilots have now been put on notice that their actions are starting to affect bookings....this will end quickly because the last thing that want now is for Delta to have to ask for more because of poor revenue numbers.
 
ac7e7
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 13):
Southwest, JetBlue, Continental, FedEx, and UPS are all hiring in the US. Maybe Frontier as well. Foreign carriers are also hiring, including Emirates and Cathay Pacific.

All of Delta's pilots finding themselves unemployed will create a large surplus in pilots. Much more than what is needed on the market. Throw in Northwest's potential chapter 7 filing, and many of them will be receiving food stamps before long.

Foreign carriers may be hiring, however considering very few pilots would be willing to relocate their families, as well as available pilots in other countries, I wouldn't consider the demand to be that high.

Time to stop screwing around and take what the company is offering. Better making that then nothing at all.
 
swissy
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:50 am

[quote=Ken777,reply=11]On the management side, I'm a firm believer that they should be taking larger cuts than they ask of their employees. That's the only way to demonstrate that the problem is serious

Agree 100%, what gets me too is the incompetence in regard of more and more pay cuts which make me believe there finance department can not get a clear picture of what reality is........ (how much money they really have to safe).

Sure there are jobs available in the US or somewhere else in the world, but if I worked 15-25 or more years for DL I would think twice about the consequences starting at zero, different country, work environment.....

It would be nice if some ex Eastern people could give us some insight how it worked out in the end for them.

Lets hope in the next 3 weeks DL will find a way......

Cheers,
 
WesternA318
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 2):
I would have to agree wit GG on that one, the rumers are alreday hurting DL,
stop operation for 24 hrs. or more would probable be the final nail in DL's
coven.....

*grabs the hammer*

Quoting Poitin (Reply 6):
Yawn I was, and I seen this sort of statement for fifty years. DL may well go under, but it will because of management stupidity and this is typical of such management.

This is a first for Grinstein. When he was at Western, he managed to corral the pilots group and flight attendants group to reasonable agreements, but, that was Western, this is Delta, which is in a far worse position than Western ever was.

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 9):
You people are nuts. Don't you remember Eastern?

These unions had better start taking what they can get. A cut in pay is much better then not having a job.

Is the IAM at DL in any way?

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 9):
If the pilots go on strike, I won't feel bad if DL goes under.

Same here.
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SeaTran
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:52 am

Yes, the job market for pilots today isn't nearly as bad as it was three or four years ago. In the US, off the top of my head, the following airlines are hiring: FedEx, UPS, Southwest, AirTran, JetBlue, Continental, and Frontier. The situation would not be entirely doom and gloom for Delta pilots if they do strike.

I know that most pilots in the US are indeed hoping that the Delta pilots do strike and it's not at all because we want to see Delta go under. We want airline management industry-wide to know that if mangement pushes things too far, the pilots have the power to, and will, burn the house down.

Pilot pay is at a level now where piloting is essentially a glorified blue-collar job. As much as the flying public has historically resented pilots for being overpaid, they also have taken comfort in the fact that there were very highly qualified folks up front ensuring their safety. The current trend is that talented and qualified people with other career options are opting out of continuing their career as pilots. The bottom line is that, at some point, the flight deck talent drain will effect air safety.
 
ac7e7
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting SeaTran (Reply 20):
We want airline management industry-wide to know that if mangement pushes things too far, the pilots have the power to, and will, burn the house down.

Scorched earth policy.... very nice. If there are many jobs out there, why aren't the pilots applying en masse at all these airlines that seem to be hiring... I'll tell you why - they all pay a fraction compared to Delta. You make it sound like it is no big deal. Open your eyes, when thousands of unemployed pilots flood the market looking for work, they will feel the pain.

Understand the facts: The pilots go on strike, its over. No more pay... pensions are gone.... benefits are gone... and it will be a long time before all the pilots are back at work.

Another newsflash: While the pilots and other employees are waiting for their unemployment cheques, Delta's executives will be working at another airline.

But you are willing to screw over the other thousands of employees at Delta. But who cares, right? What did you say? You will "Burn the house down" if it sticks it to management?

You have reinforced my belief that unions and militant employee groups are nothing but scum. You are despicable.
 
jumbojet
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 9):
You people are nuts. Don't you remember Eastern?

What ever happened to the Eastern employees? In particular, the older, more senior pilots, F/A's, etc.
 
N766UA
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting SeaTran (Reply 20):
if mangement pushes things too far, the pilots have the power to, and will, burn the house down.

With all the kids stuck in the basement. Thanks, guys!
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foxecho
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 21):

You have reinforced my belief that unions and militant employee groups are nothing but scum. You are despicable.

Amen

Andrew
JFK/MEM/MCI
..uh, we'll need that to live......
 
deltagator
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 19):
Is the IAM at DL in any way?

Are you referencing the Mechanics union? If so, then no. The pilots are the only unionized folks at Delta. Up until the last few years starting with dingleberry Mullin the labor relations at DL were among the best in the industry.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
KarlB737
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 6:23 am

Courtesy: The Associated Press

Delta Pilots Begin New Round Of Picketing

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060321/delta_pilots.html?.v=2
 
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yellowtail
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:01 am

This whole DL thing is Eastern all over again.....could ATL be cursed? Is Airtran next?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
WesternA318
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 27):
could ATL be cursed?

I doubt it, as long as the IAM stays away, or if the pilots give in.

Quoting Yellowtail (Reply 27):
Is Airtran next?

I hope not, I just bought yet another 1500 shares today!
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micstatic
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:13 am

Sea Tran: If they had a disrespect list, you'd be on mine.
AC7E7: Thanks for speaking up.

I'm so sick of pilots who feel paycuts are unfair. As an aviation enthusiast, I obviously have a tremendous amount of respect for pilots. However, let's face it. A pilot is not a doctor or a CEO. To me this is very simple. If a companies cost structure is not sustainable, they shouldn't and ultimately will not be in business. It has absolutely nothing to do with being fair or not. I know it's painful, but we are seeing that now. Pilots will never ever again make the inflated salaries they once did, because it defies economics. However, I do think it is sad how low RJ and other younger pilots make. While I agree that a 777 captain should make more than a CRJ Captain, the disparity should be much lower. I understand there are more pax, but is the job really 10X harder? Does it take 10X the skill? I can also assure you that despite the industry wide lowering of pilot salary, they will still continue to attract and train quality pilots. Are cars less safe now because we pay the people who make them less?

On another note, I find it very sad that Delta's management seems to believe pilot pay cuts are going to lead them to salvation. Because guess what. Even if they get the pay concessions they are looking for, the airline will still be in the red. Does anybody know if they have any real plans to be profitable?

Finally, it is also sad to be an armchair CEO watching Delta and other airlines say that their ticket to the future is more international flying. I agree that it is much more profitable currently, but it is only a matter of time before more next-generation LCC's are duking it out on many of these routes. It seems like just yest, airlines were saying that trans-cons were the way to go. Now we see that even Jetblue is seeing this isn't necessarily the case.
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WesternA318
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:21 am

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 29):
While I agree that a 777 captain should make more than a CRJ Captain, the disparity should be much lower. I understand there are more pax, but is the job really 10X harder? Does it take 10X the skill?

A CRJ pilot might make 4-5 flights a day to some podunk airports, but you know what, those 4-5 flights day add up when all a 777 pilot does is fly ATL-LGW and back then goes home for the rest of the month with a martini in his hands. I tend to think the Regional pilots USE more skill everyday compared to the heavies.
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Poitin
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:22 am

Quoting TL8490 (Reply 16):
Your numerous unemployments couldn't have anything to do with your attitude could it???

No, I was as risktaker. I worked for startups and many folded. However, those than didn't gave me a nice retirement, which I control and I don't have to worry about my retirement being cancelled.  Big grin
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
ac7e7
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 29):
AC7E7: Thanks for speaking up.

Thanks, but I'll likely get my post removed for being 'rude'

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 29):
I find it very sad that Delta's management seems to believe pilot pay cuts are going to lead them to salvation.

I doubt Delta's management believes that only these cuts will save the airline. This is one way to cut costs. There are other ways the airline is cutting costs, however because this is such a contentious issue, we are only hearing about this one cut.

The same thing happened up here when Air Canada was in bk protection. The unions threatened to collapse the airline because of the cuts, even going as far as throwing racist comments to a major potential investor from Taiwan. After the investor withdrew his investment and nobody was coming forward to invest, the unions started to panick and eventually agreed to cuts when Cerebus offered to invest.

This is the problem with unions and militant employee groups - they can't see past their own punch cards.
 
dl021
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 6):
Yawn I was, and I seen this sort of statement for fifty years. DL may well go under, but it will because of management stupidity and this is typical of such management.

Wow...so you're casually ok with sacrificing tens of thousands of jobs of other employees so the pilots can remain higher paid than profitable airlines' pilots.

Quoting Swissy (Reply 18):
It would be nice if some ex Eastern people could give us some insight how it worked out in the end for them.

I'll help you out with that. One guy who flew for them is now a used car wholesaler. My brother was an employee there and is now a swimming pool manufacturors rep. Neither one are in the industry now. That story is repeated thousands of times.

Quoting SeaTran (Reply 20):
The situation would not be entirely doom and gloom for Delta pilots if they do strike.

For whom? The percentage of pilots that do find jobs? Or the tens of thousands who would be out of work, and the ancillary regional depression that would cause? Get out of your box.

Quoting SeaTran (Reply 20):
We want airline management industry-wide to know that if mangement pushes things too far, the pilots have the power to, and will, burn the house down.

Yeah...that's badass....burn the mother down. That'll make sure they have high paying jobs. Why don't you simply ask for a percentage of profits, and a seat at the table so you can impact profits from a management oversight position? Scared to take your chances?

How many pilots are flying for the money? How many would be flying if it cost them money?

Fly the planes and take a cut. Stop whining because not one of you demanded to adjust your pay as the airline started losing money, and not one of you demanded that you not take the raise as the airline was going downhill.

Don't put others on the street because you want to put your kids in private school and afford the Mercedes. It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.....and the pilots who actually want Delta to fail so it scares your own airline....you guys are vultures.
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WesternA318
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Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 15):
Can you imagine the number of jobs lost just at ATL alone? That place would be a ghost town!

At least AirTran would be there to help fill in the gaps, minus the international flying.
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KAUSpilot
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RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:39 am

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 21):
Scorched earth policy.... very nice. If there are many jobs out there, why aren't the pilots applying en masse at all these airlines that seem to be hiring... I'll tell you why - they all pay a fraction compared to Delta. You make it sound like it is no big deal. Open your eyes, when thousands of unemployed pilots flood the market looking for work, they will feel the pain.

Nope, it's because of seniority. If you didn't have to start over at the bottom of the another seniority list every time you jumped from one airline to another, you'd see a mass exodus from Delta to other more stable jobs. And who pays a fraction compared to delta? You seem to forget they've already taken 14% paycuts. Southwest pilots by far out earn delta pilots on similair equipment.

This thread is becoming more of the typical Airliners.net Pilot-hating and bending the truth about pilot pay. Some of you will not rest until we all make less than greyhound bus drivers, and a lot of us already do.

The fact is, Delta has already lost a large number of its senior pilots who opted for early retirement in the face of 9/11 and bankruptcy.

If Delta cannot afford to pay it's pilots and other workers, it's time to close the doors of the company. Management shouldn't subisidize thier failures by continuosly coming to labor groups for paycuts. It would be one thing if this was the first ime Delta had asked for a pay cut in the past few years....but it's not.

Either downsize and furlough some people or close the whole thing up. You have to pay the people who are working what they're worth, and they're worth what they negotiate.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 35):
Either downsize and furlough some people or close the whole thing up.

Hmm, as much as I would cherish the the thought of DL closing shop, I'd hate to see what it would do to SLC's economy, all though other airlines combined make up almost the same amount of daily flights that SLC won't suffer TOO hard from service reductions.

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 35):
You have to pay the people who are working what they're worth, and they're worth what they negotiate.

IAM unions and DL pilots are NOT worth what they negotiate, IMHO.  box 
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ac7e7
Posts: 655
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RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 33):
and a seat at the table so you can impact profits from a management oversight position

Let's not go that far. Other airlines have tried this: UA, CP, TWA, etc. It doesn't work.


All these guys here that are saying that they have heard such threats from management in the past still believe their jobs are secured. This is what their unions leaders want them to believe. All I can say is good luck to you. They follow their union leadership blindly, even if that means a scorched earth policy.
 
swissy
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RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:01 am

[quote=KAUSpilot,reply=35] It would be one thing if this was the first ime Delta had asked for a pay cut in the past few years....but it's not.

That what makes me angry too like there is no tomorrow, it is one thing sitting
down and find a solution to the problem like wages......... but lately it is like buying a new car, bargain over price and the price changes 5 times, that is why I can understand the pilots reaction for being pi..ed.

I guess a lot of people realize here that the pilots have a lot of leverage in a
Airline and yes they can make it or brake it..................

Blaming each other is the wrong way at this point, I guess every Pilot at DL
has to ask him self, do I want a pay check from Delta or ...... TBA

And what ever they will do is fine as long they can live with consequences
of there decision.

Cheers,
 
WesternA318
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RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 37):
All these guys here that are saying that they have heard such threats from management in the past still believe their jobs are secured. This is what their unions leaders want them to believe. All I can say is good luck to you. They follow their union leadership blindly, even if that means a scorched earth policy.

AC7E7, welcome to my RU list! If the IAM is one of the unions leading employees, say goodbye to those airlines.
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Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
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RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 36):
Hmm, as much as I would cherish the the thought of DL closing shop

how can you cherish an airline shutting down? WTF
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:37 am

As a Delta Employee....

POWER TO THE PILOTS!

What the airline wants of them is not right. I support them 100% and will gladly move to another airline. We are no longer the "Employee Owned Airline" of yesteryear when we bought a 767-200 for OUR company.

Give management hell ALPA, I'll support em no matter what.


-ATCT

(Besides, im leaving in 3 weeks for a better airline...)
Trikes are for kids!
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4472
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 40):
how can you cherish an airline shutting down?

As much as I can cherish going to law school so I can do my part in helping bring down the IAM.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
db373
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:01 pm

RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 38):
And what ever they will do is fine as long they can live with consequences
of there decision.

But why should the other employees have to live with the consequences as well? Striking and shutting down the airline not only affects the pilots, but it also has an effect on all the other employees who weren't making +$200,000.00 a year, and who didn't have the money to save what those pilots should have saved.

Quoting ATCT (Reply 41):
As a Delta Employee....

POWER TO THE PILOTS!

What the airline wants of them is not right. I support them 100% and will gladly move to another airline. We are no longer the "Employee Owned Airline" of yesteryear when we bought a 767-200 for OUR company.

Give management hell ALPA, I'll support em no matter what.


-ATCT

(Besides, im leaving in 3 weeks for a better airline...)

What the airlines wants from them should have happened a long time ago. Good luck in your new position. Your support for all your coworkers who aren't young enough or don't have the luxury to switch jobs is admirable and typical of our generation.
Keep Delta My Delta
 
KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 2:15 pm

RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:02 am

Didn't we already have this discussion 2 weeks ago....of course the thread got deleted, someone's feelings got hurt, and my valuable contributions were rewarded with a 3 day ban.

Lawyers fantasizing about union-busting and taking airline pay down to minimum wage for everyone except managment, now there's a scary though. As long as you can fly from JFK to Ft. Myers and back for 200 bucks who cares! Can't even pile in your chevy cavalier and drive it for that much.
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:09 am

Quoting SeaTran (Reply 20):
The bottom line is that, at some point, the flight deck talent drain will effect air safety.

Explain this please, but before you do, let me give you a quote by Bob Serling, THE aviation writer of the 20th century.
A airline pilot once told Mr. Serling, "I dont care how many people are on my plane. The only person I want to get down safe and in one piece....is me."

Taking that quote into consideration, explain this "safety drain".
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
OttoPylit
Posts: 2259
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:58 am

RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting SeaTran (Reply 20):
In the US, off the top of my head, the following airlines are hiring: FedEx, UPS, Southwest, AirTran, JetBlue, Continental, and Frontier.

Fedex has 20,000 resumes on file waiting to be looked at.

UPS has 18,000 resumes on file waiting to be looked at.

Continental-?

Southwest may be hiring, but the pilot has to get his own 737 rating, something that usually costs a few thousand bucks. Unless he is flying or has flown a 737 for DL, he won't be considered until he goes and gets one.

Airtran, Jetblue, Frontier-All LCC's that most DL pilots despise. Plus, their pay is much lower than what DL pilots make now and probably will still be after the cuts.

Those numbers come from a DL pilot friend. Here's a question. If all those other airlines are hiring and are so much better, why aren't Delta pilots starting ground school for them right about now?

Quoting SeaTran (Reply 20):
We want airline management industry-wide to know that if mangement pushes things too far, the pilots have the power to, and will, burn the house down.

What an ass! A company that is in dire need of these cuts for survival, and you think that management is demanding these cuts just because they can? If they don't get these cuts, everyone will be out of a job and be much worse off. Is that better? I think not.

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 21):
You have reinforced my belief that unions and militant employee groups are nothing but scum. You are despicable.

Amen to that. I would love to see ALPA start its own airline. Wouldn't that be a sight to watch?  rotfl 

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 29):
However, I do think it is sad how low RJ and other younger pilots make. While I agree that a 777 captain should make more than a CRJ Captain, the disparity should be much lower. I understand there are more pax, but is the job really 10X harder? Does it take 10X the skill? I can also assure you that despite the industry wide lowering of pilot salary, they will still continue to attract and train quality pilots.

Agree. As a private pilot, its pretty apparent that flying is not rocket surgery. Its not hard. Granted, not everyone can do it, but I've never understood the payscales they've always had and what justifies it. Sure, its a huge responsibility and I agree that they should be compensated as such, but for a 747 captain somewhere making $350,000, more than a doctor that is responsible for saving lives, for example, I just never agreed with. I know a Comair CRJ captain who made it clear that planes are so advanced now that a trained monkey could fly.

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 34):
At least AirTran would be there to help fill in the gaps, minus the international flying.

Really? Ok, tell me, where is DL going to get about 300 717's and 737's to fill in those gaps? Sorry, but Boeing's line isn't that quick and no, DL doesn't have that many. Sorry, but even though FL will be able to expand quickly, they won't have the planes to back up what they would like. I would expect an expansion of about 10-15%. Thats about all they could handle.

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 35):
Some of you will not rest until we all make less than greyhound bus drivers, and a lot of us already do.

Ok, so whats the problem? Bring the rest down to that level? I know a Gulfstream captain who has no problem supporting a family with his paycheck, and 3M is well known for their low pay. Yea, he may not drive a Mercedes or live in Peachtree City or a gated fly-in community, but he's never had a problem supporting his family off it.

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 35):
Either downsize and furlough some people or close the whole thing up. You have to pay the people who are working what they're worth, and they're worth what they negotiate.

There's your problem. DL pilots would not accept the contract in 2000 unless it came with a 'no-furlough' clause in it. However, after 9/11, the page that contains that clause was valued ab out as much as the finest outhouse wallpaper this side of the Mississippi and DL was allowed to furlough. But they can't just furlough pilots, so they have to keep paying them an amount that the company can't afford, because pilots at EVERY other airline has taken cuts that would bring their airline back to profitability. The pilots need to just come to reality. The lifestyle you once led that seemed so nice and lovely is no more. A good pilot evaluates all his options, and you knew that was always a possibility when you decided to become a pilot. The pilots who are only in this for the lifestyle will leave, the pilots who truly enjoy flying an airliner will stay. Burning down the house won't do anything.

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 36):
Hmm, as much as I would cherish the the thought of DL closing shop, I'd hate to see what it would do to SLC's economy, all though other airlines combined make up almost the same amount of daily flights that SLC won't suffer TOO hard from service reductions.

Hmm, would you feel that way if your mother or sister was a DL employee? I think not. And if CO was in the same predicament(oh, wait a minute, they were. TWICE!!!), you wouldn't be wishing that. Such mentality is why the human gene pool is so worth some chlorine to be added.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:16 am

[quote=Db373,reply=43]But why should the other employees have to live with the consequences as well? Striking and shutting down the airline not only affects the pilots, but it also has an effect on all the other employees who weren't making +$200,000.00 a year, and who didn't have the money to save what those pilots should have saved.

That is exactly my point, these employees are making that decision for every one at DL and if they decided to go for I hope they understand what
they did=consequences................

[quote=ATCT,reply=41](Besides, im leaving in 3 weeks for a better airline...)

Good for you and if every one would leave which does not want to work under
the new way DL will be (or so we hope), my guess would be DL will be around
a lot longer....

Cheers,
 Big grin
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:24 am

After reading all this stuff on DL and how they will fold if the pilots go on strike, I cannot say I'd feel bad for them either... It would be a shame to see a major airline become nothing more than a memory, but after looking at what the pilots are saying, shame on them. Take the pay cuts to keep yourselves flying, or watch your very occupation disappear... You pilots may be making less than you have, but you'd be making a whole lot more than you would without the paycuts in the long run if you catch my drift...

How do they sleep at night...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Delta Won't Survive Strike CEO Grinstein Warns

Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:33 am

[quote=Steeler83,reply=48]How do they sleep at night...

That is a good question

Well I guess sooner or later Pilots will not be a factor to fly from A to B,

Imagine that: JFK-LHR with no Pilots in the cockpit..... dream? No it is the
future...........and issues like that will not occur any more.

Cheers,

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