Flying-Tiger
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Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:01 pm

Have used a "?" in the topic, but IMO it seems like a done deal. Was rumoured here some time ago. The article at the same time reports that another 4 frames will be added to the fleet this year - anyone which types? A330-200/340-300?

----------------

Air Madrid to Buy 15 Airbus A350 Airplanes, El Mundo Reports

March 23 (Bloomberg) -- Air Madrid Lineas Areas SA, a Spanish airline with eight aircraft, plans to buy 15 Airbus SAS A350 airliners, El Mundo reported, citing Jose Luis Carrillo, chairman of the Madrid-based carrier.

The purchase agreement, expected to be completed in a few weeks, only lacks delivery dates, the newspaper reported.

[snip]
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manni
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:10 pm

Interesting, that would bring the total to 199 orders and commitments, of wich 25 would have been ordered/commited to this year. Could Air Madrid possibly fill in the delayed Emirates A340-600 slots?
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WINGS
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:19 pm

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
it seems like a done deal. Was rumoured here some time ago

That's correct Flying-Tiger, this order has been rumoured since late last year. It's good to hear that a firm should be signed soon.

It's very interesting to note that it has been from Latin speaking countries that the A350 has attracted some of the major orders such as the following.

Tap Portugal 10 + 5 Options
Tam 10 + 5 Options
Air Europa 10 + 2 Options
Eurofly 3 + 3 Options
Air Madrid 15 + ?

Total
48 + 15 Options.

It does make you wonder.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
WINGS
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:22 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
Could Air Madrid possibly fill in the delayed Emirates A340-600 slots?

I doubt it Manni. I would expect used A330/A340. I see the A340-600 as too large for them.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
Oykie
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:41 pm

Great to see Airbus nearing their 200 order target, even if it has slipped by 4-5 month due to delays since Airbus has upgraded the A350 even more.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 3):
Quoting Manni (Reply 1):
Could Air Madrid possibly fill in the delayed Emirates A340-600 slots?

I doubt it Manni. I would expect used A330/A340. I see the A340-600 as too large for them.

Regards,
Wings

Would it be possible for Airbus to offer a A330 in the Emirates A340-600 slots?
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
WINGS
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:00 pm

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 4):
Would it be possible for Airbus to offer a A330 in the Emirates A340-600 slots?

Doubt it. The A346 shares little commodity with A330. While the A346 has a completely different price tag.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:14 pm

I've been trying to locate the Bloomberg article, but can't find it. Anyone got a link? Are these A358s?
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
EI321
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:16 pm

 
Lumberton
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
It's very interesting to note that it has been from Latin speaking countries that the A350 has attracted some of the major orders such as the following.
Tap Portugal 10 + 5 Options
Tam 10 + 5 Options
Air Europa 10 + 2 Options
Eurofly 3 + 3 Options
Air Madrid 15 + ?
Total
48 + 15 Options.
It does make you wonder.

Interesting observation, WINGS. I don't think we can draw any conclusions from this, but it is curious how the orders "cluster". Maybe when IB orders their 30 or so A350s...?

EDIT: Thanks for the link, EI321.

[Edited 2006-03-23 12:20:50]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
EI321
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:17 pm

So what are air Madrids s/h expansion plans? How many s/h planes are they after?
 
karan69
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:03 pm

Good news, congrats to Air Madrid and the A350 program

Who are the potential A350 customers?? off the top of my head

IB---as said above 25-30 aircrafts

BMI---5

VS----20+

EK[go either away--787-10 or 350-1000]

UL---10-15[but as pointed out they will follow EK and go for the 787-10 if EK choose that aircraft]

SQ/CX could go either way

Aerolineas Argentina---10 aircrafts

Lan Chile------10 aircrafts

TG----15-20 aircrafts


Please make necessary additions and Editions
 
Oykie
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:12 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 5):
Doubt it. The A346 shares little commodity with A330. While the A346 has a completely different price tag.

Regards,
Wings

I was of the understanding that they could change the airplane type if they have not started the assembly of the other model, since they are being produced at the same line. Gives Air Madrid planes fast and makes Emirates take their time to find out what they want.

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 10):
Who are the potential A350 customers?? off the top of my head

If SAS mangaes to make money again on their Intercontinental network the A350 would suit them well. Although a 787-8 would be better size for SAS. A350-700 anyone?  Smile

[Edited 2006-03-23 13:15:30]
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
Joni
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:13 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):

It's very interesting to note that it has been from Latin speaking countries that the A350 has attracted some of the major orders such as the following.

[...]

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
48 + 15 Options.

It does make you wonder.

I'm afraid you lost me there, what does it make you wonder?

(and as a sidenote, unfortunately those countries don't actually speak Latin. The only country where Latin is still an official language is the Vatican, even though globally there are tens of millions of people who understand it. I think Latin ought to be used much more than it is nowadays)
 
WINGS
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:32 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 8):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
It's very interesting to note that it has been from Latin speaking countries that the A350 has attracted some of the major orders such as the following.
Tap Portugal 10 + 5 Options
Tam 10 + 5 Options
Air Europa 10 + 2 Options
Eurofly 3 + 3 Options
Air Madrid 15 + ?
Total
48 + 15 Options.
It does make you wonder.

Interesting observation, WINGS. I don't think we can draw any conclusions from this, but it is curious how the orders "cluster". Maybe when IB orders their 30 or so A350s...?

Iberia is prime candidate. We can also add France to that list of possible Latin speaking countries.  Wink

Quoting Joni (Reply 12):

I'm afraid you lost me there, what does it make you wonder?

(and as a sidenote, unfortunately those countries don't actually speak Latin. The only country where Latin is still an official language is the Vatican, even though globally there are tens of millions of people who understand it. I think Latin ought to be used much more than it is nowadays)

I thought that this question would eventually pop up. Well Joni I found the following definition to clarify my statement.

Of or relating to the languages that developed from Latin, such as Italian, French, Spanish, and Portuguese, or to the peoples that speak them.
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
EI321
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 10):
Good news, congrats to Air Madrid and the A350 program

Who are the potential A350 customers?? off the top of my head

IB---as said above 25-30 aircrafts

BMI---5

VS----20+

EK[go either away--787-10 or 350-1000]

UL---10-15[but as pointed out they will follow EK and go for the 787-10 if EK choose that aircraft]

SQ/CX could go either way

Aerolineas Argentina---10 aircrafts

Lan Chile------10 aircrafts

TG----15-20 aircrafts

I dont think BMI will exist in its current state to be able to order any A350s.

I think EK is 50:50 chance, SQ will get 787, CX prob Boeing too but Airbus still have a chance there. Others are:

EI (12-14)

Lufthansa (20+)

SU (only a maybe though)

SAS
 
MD11junkie
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:32 pm

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 10):
Aerolineas Argentina---10 aircrafts

Oh no... not again!  Yeah sure

AEROLINEAS ARGENTINAS, with a final S  Smile

I don't see AR as potential candidate - well, maybe to replace the A340-200s, but I really doubt there is room in the fleet for A350-800s soon. If they order them, it'll be around 2020 - when the A340s have become pretty elder. Of course, at that time, the 747-400s will go too or will start to leave the fleet as they'll be 25-30 years old.

Cheers! wave 
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Joni
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:50 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):

I thought that this question would eventually pop up. Well Joni I found the following definition to clarify my statement.

Of or relating to the languages that developed from Latin, such as Italian, French, Spanish, and Portuguese, or to the peoples that speak them.

Hey nice, I didn't know that - and I've been studying some Latin recently.

But what did you wonder about those languages and A350 orders, and do you think it may apply to BA and US airlines as well, since they speak English which is also heavily influenced by Latin?
 
WINGS
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:30 pm

Quoting Joni (Reply 16):
Hey nice, I didn't know that - and I've been studying some Latin recently.

We learn something new everyday.

Quoting Joni (Reply 16):
But what did you wonder about those languages and A350 orders,

I was thinking that Airbus may have a good sales team in relation to these countries.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
Oykie
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 17):
was thinking that Airbus may have a good sales team in relation to these countries.

Costumers are usually loyal, and the reason for switching is if either if the competitor offer a significant better product better suited for your operation, or you have disagreements with your current provider.

I believe the Latin speaking customers have a longer tradition seeking business in Europe, rather than the US.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
keta
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:08 am

I saw it today in the newspapers. First 5 deliveries in 2010, next 5 in 2011 and the rest later.

Congrats to Airbus and Air Madrid if this goes on!  thumbsup 
Where there's a will, there's a way
 
atmx2000
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 16):
Hey nice, I didn't know that - and I've been studying some Latin recently.

Well they aren't called ROMANce Languages because they are the language of love..
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
mbj2000
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:41 am

Ok, now I'm going all the way down to the floor to pick up some cliches.  duck 

Maybe chicas lindas and latin lovers prefer the Airbus lavatories when meeting during flights for some really nasty stuff  Smile

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 20):
Quoting Joni (Reply 16):
Hey nice, I didn't know that - and I've been studying some Latin recently.

Well they aren't called ROMANce Languages because they are the language of love..
Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending -- Bender Unit 22
 
atmx2000
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:52 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 17):
I was thinking that Airbus may have a good sales team in relation to these countries.

Well I would hope so since most of the airlines you mentioned are in Europe.

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 18):
I believe the Latin speaking customers have a longer tradition seeking business in Europe, rather than the US.

Boeing and MD have had a great deal of success selling airplanes in Latin America.
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Cruiser
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Keta (Reply 19):
I saw it today in the newspapers. First 5 deliveries in 2010, next 5 in 2011 and the rest later.

How can that be? The A350 has an EIS of 2011 now (after the recent 6 month delay).

But congratulations to Airbus and Air Madrid. Certainly it brings Airbus closer to its target of 200 orders. Its also interesting to note that the A350 has more orders thus far this year.

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
WINGS
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 23):

How can that be? The A350 has an EIS of 2011 now (after the recent 6 month delay).

But congratulations to Airbus and Air Madrid. Certainly it brings Airbus closer to its target of 200 orders. Its also interesting to note that the A350 has more orders thus far this year.

James

The delay that you are referring to is for the final freeze of the A350 project, which was expected to be concluded in March. This date has now been pulled back into June. This accounts to a delay of three months, although they expect to make up this time latter on in the project.

I expect Airbus is playing a bit of wait and watch approach in regards to the B787 project.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
Cruiser
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 24):
The delay that you are referring to is for the final freeze of the A350 project, which was expected to be concluded in March. This date has now been pulled back into June. This accounts to a delay of three months, although they expect to make up this time latter on in the project.

This is the delay I was referring to:
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...350+three+years+behind+Boeing.html

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
ikramerica
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:00 am

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 4):
Great to see Airbus nearing their 200 order target, even if it has slipped by 4-5 month due to delays since Airbus has upgraded the A350 even more.

They do not have 200 orders or anywhere near 200 orders. According to Airbus, there are 91 orders, and whenever these are finally inked, assuming it's 15+X not 10+5 or something, it will be 106.

They have various forms of announcements for 200 or so planes.

Just like a lot of 787 announcements, people aren't so quick to sign on the dotted line. They claim 379 orders and commitments, but only 291 orders, only 3 of which are for the 789 despite all the hoopla.

Just ask QANTAS about failing to sign, now 3+ months out from the huge announcement but no signed orders to speak of.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
eilennaei
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 13):
and as a sidenote, unfortunately those countries don't actually speak Latin. The only country where Latin is still an official language is the Vatican, even though globally there are tens of millions of people who understand it. I think Latin ought to be used much more than it is nowadays)

I thought that this question would eventually pop up. Well Joni I found the following definition to clarify my statement.

Of or relating to the languages that developed from Latin, such as Italian, French, Spanish, and Portuguese, or to the peoples that speak them.

People may be Latin (or more often Latino), but the language they mostly speak is a Romance (of a Roman origin) language that is also Latinate (derived from Latin).
 
dalecary
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 26):
Just ask QANTAS about failing to sign, now 3+ months out from the huge announcement but no signed orders to speak of.

QF formal signing is very close according to my mail.
 
Oykie
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:44 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 22):
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 18):
I believe the Latin speaking customers have a longer tradition seeking business in Europe, rather than the US.

Boeing and MD have had a great deal of success selling airplanes in Latin America.

You are quite right. I am studying History as a part of my education to become a teacher. I have just finished work about the colonization and imperialism. So my quote "longer tradition" goes back to the bond connected between Latin-America and Spain/Portugal in the early days. But you are right in the regard og B and MD having business here as well.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 26):
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 4):
Great to see Airbus nearing their 200 order target, even if it has slipped by 4-5 month due to delays since Airbus has upgraded the A350 even more.

They do not have 200 orders or anywhere near 200 orders. According to Airbus, there are 91 orders, and whenever these are finally inked, assuming it's 15+X not 10+5 or something, it will be 106.

They have various forms of announcements for 200 or so planes.

Just like a lot of 787 announcements, people aren't so quick to sign on the dotted line. They claim 379 orders and commitments, but only 291 orders, only 3 of which are for the 789 despite all the hoopla.

Just ask QANTAS about failing to sign, now 3+ months out from the huge announcement but no signed orders to speak of.

Depends on your point of view. Every order makes them come closer to the 200 target. Now they may have meant announcements, but I read an article where Noel said the short term goal was to reach 200 orders and design freeze.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
WINGS
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:53 pm

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 25):

This is the delay I was referring to:
http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...350+three+years+behind+Boeing.html

James

Well Cruiser the quote I was referring to was this one. It should help clarify some facts.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...787+stretch+with+heavier+A350.html

Hunter confirms that the A350 programme has suffered slippage of "around three months" following the decision in January to install an A380-based flightdeck. "The 'Milestone 5' [M5] definition freeze has been pushed back from March to June, and this has had an impact on the whole schedule," he says.

The knock-on effect is that entry into service (EIS) of the -800 is now set for the second half of 2010 rather than mid-year, while -900 deliveries will "probably" now start in 2011, having previously been due at the end of 2010.

Hunter is confident that the three-month "M5 slip will not be translated exactly to the EIS date because there are certain things we can do in the production process to reduce the impact".


Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
WINGS
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting Eilennaei (Reply 27):

People may be Latin (or more often Latino), but the language they mostly speak is a Romance (of a Roman origin) language that is also Latinate (derived from Latin).

Hi Eilennaei, I am also aware of this. But thanks for the aditional info.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
Oykie
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RE: Air Madrid To Take A350?

Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:44 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 30):
Well Cruiser the quote I was referring to was this one. It should help clarify some facts.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...787+stretch+with+heavier+A350.html

Hunter confirms that the A350 programme has suffered slippage of "around three months" following the decision in January to install an A380-based flightdeck. "The 'Milestone 5' [M5] definition freeze has been pushed back from March to June, and this has had an impact on the whole schedule," he says.

The knock-on effect is that entry into service (EIS) of the -800 is now set for the second half of 2010 rather than mid-year, while -900 deliveries will "probably" now start in 2011, having previously been due at the end of 2010.

Hunter is confident that the three-month "M5 slip will not be translated exactly to the EIS date because there are certain things we can do in the production process to reduce the impact".

Regards,
Wings



Quote:
The European manufacturer previously stated that the baseline A350-800 was targeted for a mid-2010 entry into service (EIS). However while presenting the new cockpit configuration at last week’s Asian Aerospace show in Singapore, Airbus chief operating officer – customers John Leahy referred to an EIS date of 2011, signalling that the aircraft’s availability has slipped further behind that of its direct competitor, the Boeing 787, which has a scheduled EIS of mid-2008.

From Criuser article in reply 25. John is not as optimistic as Hunter. Also Avitaion Week says late 2010 and early 2011.

Hunter is more precise int that he has one EIS for the A350-800 and another for the A350-900. I guess Leahy talks down the expectations so he don't promise more than Airbus can deliver? The A380-800 may be delayed to very early 2007 rather than December 2006. Not that big difference.

I don't see Air Madrid flying the A350 before 2011
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas

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