MAH4546
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El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:07 pm

After years of making a stop in New York City, El Al today will inagurate new year-round non-stop service between Tel Aviv and Miami. El Al 101 will depart Tel Aviv just past midnight at 00.10, arriving in Miami the next morning at 7.20AM. The flight will be operated with a two-class 767-200ER. At 6603 miles, it is not only the longest route in the El Al network, but the longest 767 route in the world. Advanced bookings have far exceeded expectations, and a third, and possibly fourth weekly seasonal flight, will likely be added in time for the busier summer period.

Story and video from NBC2 Fort Myers:
http://www.nbc-2.com/articles/readaf...article.asp?articleid=6375&z=37&p=
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MaverickM11
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:48 am

Ironically Delta also started "the only route to Israel from the Southeast" today.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Humberside
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:35 am

Has this led to a reduction in EWR flights? I know MIA services used to go through EWR
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LY777
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:40 am

I hope the line will succeed.
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CRGsFuture
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:45 am

I think it will especially because most of this is O&D traffic. Good luck to them.
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MaverickM11
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 4):
I think it will especially because most of this is O&D traffic

...but I'd imagine it's all very low yield traffic, on a very high cost aircraft (762).
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:50 am

I wouldn't say that, I was reading a couple of posts the week before saying there are a lot of Hebrews in MIA and a lot of them from TLV travel to Miami for vacation, the main thing is to take a look of the booking stats and if it's that backed up that's a good sign.
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LY777
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:55 am

The 787 would be perfect for the route.
By the way, I prefer flying from TLV to MIA via EWR on a 777 than flying non stop TLV/MIA non stop with an old 767 with poor IFE.What do you think?
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RobertS975
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
...but I'd imagine it's all very low yield traffic, on a very high cost aircraft (762).

Actually, routes from the US and Canada to TLV are high yield and relatively high fare routes and the flights are mostly completely full.
 
A388
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:11 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 7):
The 787 would be perfect for the route.
By the way, I prefer flying from TLV to MIA via EWR on a 777 than flying non stop TLV/MIA non stop with an old 767 with poor IFE.What do you think?

I agree with you. LY does operate a very old aircraft on this long route (762ER). Why doesn't LY use the 772ER on this route? If the flight is that popular, why not offer more seats on this flight by using a larger more comfortable aircraft (772ER)?

I wish them all the best of course Big grin

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rjpieces
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 9):
If the flight is that popular, why not offer more seats on this flight by using a larger more comfortable aircraft (772ER)?

Don't have enough aircraft...They recently ordered 2 more 777s though. During the summer, NYC sees an insane number of weekly El Al flights.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:36 am

Quoting CRGsFuture (Reply 6):
I wouldn't say that, I was reading a couple of posts the week before saying there are a lot of Hebrews in MIA

Alot of Hebrews you say??

Hebrew is a language.
Jewish/Judaism is the religion and to an extent the culture.
Israeli is the nationality.
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FLYACYYZ
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:47 am

I would think the next route slated for an equipment upgrade would be LAX/YYZ/TLV. However, I think the Canada/Israel would have to be tweaked, as there is a cap on the weekly maximum number of seats offered by both LY and AC. The T-7 has serviced YYZ, but if the seat cap is true, LY is going for frequency with the 767.
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MaverickM11
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 8):
Actually, routes from the US and Canada to TLV are high yield and relatively high fare routes and the flights are mostly completely full.

Not to/from Florida!
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
rjpieces
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:11 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
Not to/from Florida!

This isn't Jewish grandmother traffic; this is high-yielding business traffic, especially among the large Israeli population in MIA.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
MaverickM11
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 14):
This isn't Jewish grandmother traffic; this is high-yielding business traffic, especially among the large Israeli population in MIA.

I find that hard to believe with only two weekly frequencies.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
flymia
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:59 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 8):
Actually, routes from the US and Canada to TLV are high yield and relatively high fare routes and the flights are mostly completely full.

Not to/from Florida!

Miami has the second highest Jewish population of any city in the world after NYC. So what are you talking about. As siad frequency is expected to go up and it is not Low Yield traffic. There is money in this market thats for sure.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 14):
This isn't Jewish grandmother traffic; this is high-yielding business traffic, especially among the large Israeli population in MIA.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
petmbro
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 2:32 pm

The enormous Jewish population and Israeli tourists in South Florida should make this a very successful route. If AA didn't screw up Tel Aviv after TWA they should've started MIA-TLV since the MIA hub could feed traffic from the west coast on to TLV without having to go through NYC, plus the strong O&D already there.
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rjpieces
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:01 pm

Quoting Petmbro (Reply 17):
they should've started MIA-TLV since the MIA hub could feed traffic from the west coast on to TLV without having to go through NYC, plus the strong O&D already there.

Before the new immigration rules, they could have tapped South America-Israel traffic as well....
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
MaverickM11
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 16):
Miami has the second highest Jewish population of any city in the world after NYC.

I grew up in Boca Raton, so believe-you-me I know.

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 16):
As siad frequency is expected to go up and it is not Low Yield traffic. There is money in this market thats for sure.

All I'm saying is that I don't believe it's as high yield as you think it is, and it's being flown with an aircraft with very high unit costs. If an airline goes into an unrestricted market with two weekly flights on a two class aircraft (when they have aircraft with three classes), it's usually a good sign that it doesn't think it's high yield. El Al has been in Florida before, and it has left Florida before. It could very well work just fine, but I'm sceptical.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MAH4546
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:29 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):

All I'm saying is that I don't believe it's as high yield as you think it is, and it's being flown with an aircraft with very high unit costs. If an airline goes into an unrestricted market with two weekly flights on a two class aircraft (when they have aircraft with three classes), it's usually a good sign that it doesn't think it's high yield. El Al has been in Florida before, and it has left Florida before. It could very well work just fine, but I'm sceptical.

It is being flown with a 762 because that is all they have to fly it right now. It will be a 772 and will increase in frequency when the equipment becomes available. If it was so low-yielding, then El Al would still do what they have been doing for more than a decade: fly MIA-EWR/JFK-TLV. They are going non-stop because the yield is there to do it, and the fact that they are using a low-capacity, high cost aircraft shows how they can operate this flight healthily using a low-density plane. Low-yielding markets rely on higher density planes to make up for the low ticket prices. There are huge business ties between Israel and Miami, especially in banking and pharamaceuticals, the flight will do very well.

El Al has been flying to Miami for nearly two decades. Even in the age of codeshares and new immigration rules, El Al still found it worthwhile to send a plane to Miami via Newark or JFK. Lack of aircraft and a rule that didn't allow pilots to fly more than 12 hours prevented the service from happening, outside of charter flights in the summer of 1996.

[Edited 2006-03-28 14:36:32]
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MAH4546
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:08 pm

Short article on the inagural with a picture:

http://www.traveldailynews.com/new.asp?newid=28727&subcategory_id=100
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LY777
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:07 am

thanks for the article
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LAXintl
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 16):
Miami has the second highest Jewish population of any city in the world after NYC.

Take a look at the bottom table. According to the table, South Florida (Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-West Palm Beach-Boca Raton) has the 3rd largest Jewish metropolitan population outside of Israel as of 2002. New York and Los Angeles were larger.
http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100...concepts/demography/demtables.html

Also found the following US state rankings according to the Census Bureau, were Florida comes in a distant 3rd to New York and California in total Jewish population.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/usjewpop.html
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
CO7e7
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:48 am

Too bad none of our a.net photographers were there to take some pix and post them here !!!
 
zchannel
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 23):
Also found the following US state rankings according to the Census Bureau, were Florida comes in a distant 3rd to New York and California in total Jewish population.

Why doesn't El AL fly to LAX on a non-stop basis? Why route the flight through Toronto (am I right about that)?
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LAXintl
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting ZCHANNEL (Reply 25):
Why doesn't El AL fly to LAX on a non-stop basis?

TLV-LAX would be a very long trip at over 7500miles not counting headwinds.

For several seasons El Al operated a weekly oneway LAX-TLV nonstop with the 747-400 during the summers, with flight time approaching 14 hours.

For the most part, El Al does fine with its services routed via Toronto and likely is able to offer greater frequencies that way, then what is could justify operating a nonstop solely for LA passengers.

One day if El Al gets the 787 then it could very well successfully manage nonstops both load and range wise.
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gritzngravee
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
...but I'd imagine it's all very low yield traffic, on a very high cost aircraft (762).

R U kidding me? You obviously don't know anyone who is Jewish LOL!!!!!! Every jewish kid i went to college with and the ones I'm friends with now, South Florida is a second home for them. A lot of Russian Jews live in NYC/Miami when it gets cold up here they go down there. And there are 3 or 4 Rabbinical Academies in South Beach, I've seen two of them for sure.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:17 am

As several posts above have noted, South Florida does have a very large Jewish population, especially in and around Boca Raton in southern Palm Beach County. Based on that I'm quite surprised El Al selected MIA-TLV rather than FLL-TLV or even PBI-TLV since so much of the PAX on such flights will be O&D. Besides NYC and LA, another significantly large Jewish population resides in Skokie, IL right close to ORD, so perhaps AA can take advantage of that potential ORD-TLV route before El Al corners it.
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rjpieces
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 28):
Based on that I'm quite surprised El Al selected MIA-TLV rather than FLL-TLV or even PBI-TLV since so much of the PAX on such flights will be O&D.

Why? MIA is the major business city with lots of Israelis; FLL is low-yielding tourist traffic.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 28):
Besides NYC and LA, another significantly large Jewish population resides in Skokie, IL right close to ORD, so perhaps AA can take advantage of that potential ORD-TLV route before El Al corners it.

It is not Jewish population that matters!
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MaverickM11
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Gritzngravee (Reply 27):
R U kidding me? You obviously don't know anyone who is Jewish LOL!!!!!!



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
I grew up in Boca Raton, so believe-you-me I know.

Go away.
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SLCUT2777
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:27 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 29):
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 28):
Based on that I'm quite surprised El Al selected MIA-TLV rather than FLL-TLV or even PBI-TLV since so much of the PAX on such flights will be O&D.

Why? MIA is the major business city with lots of Israelis; FLL is low-yielding tourist traffic.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 28):
Besides NYC and LA, another significantly large Jewish population resides in Skokie, IL right close to ORD, so perhaps AA can take advantage of that potential ORD-TLV route before El Al corners it.

It is not Jewish population that matters!

FLL might be the destination of more cruise ship hoppers but it is gaining on MIA rapidly and is south Florida's #2 airport right after MIA. Besides the way so many morons in that part of Florida drive (no turn signals, or looking back to back out of a driveway!) down I-95 and the Turnpike I would assume that many would prefer the shorter drive to FLL or PBI.
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B752OS
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:01 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 31):
FLL might be the destination of more cruise ship hoppers but it is gaining on MIA rapidly and is south Florida's #2 airport right after MIA. Besides the way so many morons in that part of Florida drive (no turn signals, or looking back to back out of a driveway!) down I-95 and the Turnpike I would assume that many would prefer the shorter drive to FLL or PBI.

What are you basing that on? MIA is not the #1 airport in Florida, MCO handled almost 3 million more pax in 2005 than did MIA. As it stands right now, the growth at MCO in terms of pax is greater than either FLL or MIA.

So if you want to say that MIA is #2 in Florida and FLL is #3 right behind them, then that would be the correct statement to make.

Also, I would not say that FLL is right behind MIA, yes FLL has been growing, but in 2005 they did 22.4 million, where MIA did just over 30.1 million, that's a decent sized gap.

[Edited 2006-03-31 04:03:01]

[Edited 2006-03-31 04:06:11]
 
peteinmiami
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:20 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 31):



Quoting B752OS (Reply 32):

Here we go again, the usual Miami bashing club is back to work!!!! Guys you are so predictable The good news at least for us the people like "FlyMIA" or "MAH4546" that choose to live in and love Miami, with the good and the bad that this City has to offer , is that by the username we already know what type of comments certain people are going to say, so we save time enjoying all the good this site has to offer without wasting our time on silly posts
 
B752OS
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:27 pm

Quoting Peteinmiami (Reply 33):
Here we go again, the usual Miami bashing club is back to work!!!! Guys you are so predictable The good news at least for us the people like "FlyMIA" or "MAH4546" that choose to live in and love Miami, with the good and the bad that this City has to offer , is that by the username we already know what type of comments certain people are going to say, so we save time enjoying all the good this site has to offer without wasting our time on silly posts

That's interesting you shoud say that, you take one look at my name and automatically think I am going to bash MIA? How did I just bash MIA the airport? When did I bash the city of Miami? SLC made a comment and he was incorrect in saying MIA is the #1 airport in Florida. Does stating the truth mean I am bashing MIA? Read the post I made, I never once mentioned the CITY of Miami in there.

How about you spend your time making posts that actually have meaning to the thread they are in and not waste space bashing people.



How far down the road do people think EL AL will increase the frequencies of ths flight?
 
CRGsFuture
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:51 pm

I'd say 4 times weekly, at most.
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flymia
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 34):
SLC made a comment and he was incorrect in saying MIA is the #1 airport in Florida.



Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 31):
FLL might be the destination of more cruise ship hoppers but it is gaining on MIA rapidly and is south Florida's #2 airport right after MIA

B752OS read the post more carefully he says South Florida's #2 airport not Florida's. He said nothing about the whole state. You are right MCO did have more PAX than MIA.


And your right Pete I could not imagine living in any other city I love Miami.
[Edited 2006-03-31 06:36:58]

[Edited 2006-03-31 06:37:27]
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
MAH4546
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RE: El Al Starts TLV-MIA Today

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:28 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 23):

Take a look at the bottom table. According to the table, South Florida (Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-West Palm Beach-Boca Raton) has the 3rd largest Jewish metropolitan population outside of Israel as of 2002. New York and Los Angeles were larger.
http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100...concepts/demography/demtables.html

Different sources give different figures. Many sources put South Florida has number two, like this one:

http://www.jewishboca.org/index.php?...h%20Federation&category=About%20Us

There are no exact figures available, so Miami and Los Angeles always fluxuate for in second/third. What is for sure is that Miami has the second largest Israeli diaspora in the world, after New York City and before Chicago. That is also why El Al flies to Chicago and not other cities with larger Jewish communities: the Israeli population.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 28):
As several posts above have noted, South Florida does have a very large Jewish population, especially in and around Boca Raton in southern Palm Beach County. Based on that I'm quite surprised El Al selected MIA-TLV rather than FLL-TLV or even PBI-TLV since so much of the PAX on such flights will be O&D

This flight is about the Israeli, not Jewish population. That is centred in Miami.
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