luisca
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Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:29 am

A US court has ruled that by march 29th 2 Boeing 767-300s that were leased from Pegasus aviation should be returned because the airline has not payed 26 million dollars in fees. The airline has cancelled the Madrid and Miami flights because of this.

The transport minister of Bolivia has warned that the airline may collapse becomes these routes represent more than 50% of LAB's revenue.

La Prensa in Spanish Only
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
LeoDF
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:38 am

Ohh no! So the rumours were true! LAB has got deep financial troubles! Anyway they can appeal to this decision and continue operating their 767's?

If LAB does collapse, there go 81 years of history! And Aerosur, well, they are not merely what LAB is. Damn the bad administration at LAB!!

Surely 123 has got further info that I would gladly like to read!

A. De Leo
"PiloT"
Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
 
juventus
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:46 am

WOW, these news surely suck for LAB. What now, fly to the US with 727s and a tech-stop somewhere? Without the MIA route, they are going to be hurting. I hope things workout for LAB.

Why is it that only AA flies to Bolivia? Without LAB, could DL support a flight from ATL or CO from IAH?
 
MarcoT
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:49 am

Quoting LeoDF (Reply 1):
Ohh no! So the rumours were true! LAB has got deep financial troubles! Anyway they can appeal to this decision and continue operating their 767's?

Maybe the equivalent, if any, of an US chapter 11 procedure?

Anyway this confirm, on a different scale, the old saying: if you owe 1000$ to the bank, you're in trouble; if you owe 1,000,000$ to the bank, it's the bank that's in trouble...
Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Lloyd A�reo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its

Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:57 am

At least one of the 763s will go to Santa Barbara AL in Venezuela. Pegasus was the lessor of Santa Barbara ex-DC10s. When the DC10s were banned by the authorities because of constant tech diversions, they were returned to Pegasus and Pegasus told Santa Barbara that they would replace them with LAB's 767s.

Santa Barbara currently wet-leases a pair of 763s from Icelandair for their MAD and TFN routes but one of them (TF-FIA) will undergo heavy maintenance between early-april and mid-may. THis makes sense that the 763s (at least one of them) will fly VVI-CCS to get a Santa Barbara livery.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

[Edited 2006-03-27 16:58:07]
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:15 am

That is really bad. I hope LAB finds a way to get around this issue. It will suck for Latin American aviation to lose LAB.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
luisca
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting Juventus (Reply 2):
WOW, these news surely suck for LAB. What now, fly to the US with 727s and a tech-stop somewhere? Without the MIA route, they are going to be hurting. I hope things workout for LAB.

Why is it that only AA flies to Bolivia? Without LAB, could DL support a flight from ATL or CO from IAH?

They used to fly to MIA via PTY, they even had 5th freedom rights, maybe they will do this again. The MIA route is the cash cow for LAB, without it, there can be no LAB.

BTW If they do start MIA-PTY again I will be happy, ever since LB, US and IB left the route CM and AA are murdering us with the fares!

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 5):
That is really bad. I hope LAB finds a way to get around this issue. It will suck for Latin American aviation to lose LAB

They can not get around it, the minute that those planes touch foreign soil on Wednesday they will be seized

IF LB collapses I think JJ, RG, LA and CM will al fight for a piece of the pie on the routes to the US, with the maniac that is running Bolivia now loads on flights to the US are at record levels from Bolivia (especially from Santa Cruz)

[Edited 2006-03-27 17:25:36]
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
RAFVC10
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:35 am

Could LB return to lease the 310's???
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
DesertAir
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:17 am

I lived in Bolivia for 6 months in 1990. LAB was a great airline. I recall flying from MIA to La Paz on a 727 with stops in Caracas and Manous, Brazil. They need larger craft for their longer international markets. I am sorry to hear they are in crisis.
 
Lindy
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 4:23 am

LAB is flying everyother night to IAD using 727 in LAB colors, but most of the time its Falcon Air aircraft.

Rafal
BWIADCA - Nikon D100
 
A342
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 7):
Could LB return to lease the 310's???

There are next to none available on the market.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:46 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
They can not get around it

Well, apealing the decision or paying the fees will solve the crisis..

Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
the minute that those planes touch foreign soil on Wednesday they will be seized

Any foreign soil or just the US' soil? If so, why?
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
HBIHLtoEZE
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:47 am

Oh no,

please LAB, stay alive, they must not go under - they are the last airline that has kept the spirit of the first jet generation alive.

I flew them two years ago, Cochabamba - Sucre and La Paz - Cuzco on their worldrecord 727-78 CP-1223, 39 years and 08 months old (it was taken out of service by now):


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Snorre - VIP Vienna International Planespotters




Last September I spotted one of their newly painted 727-200s with winglets in MIA - as one of their 67s had been damaged the week before by Katrina (blown into the airport fence I believe)

Would it be possible to fly a 727 economically for the LPB-VVI-MAO-(CUN-MEX?)-MIA run these days?

Cheers, saludos
Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life.
 
BN747
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:37 am

If this does go through with any delay or appeal, would someone confirm that they have certainly departed LPB or VVI?

BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
luisca
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 11):
Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
They can not get around it

Well, apealing the decision or paying the fees will solve the crisis..

Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
the minute that those planes touch foreign soil on Wednesday they will be seized

Any foreign soil or just the US' soil? If so, why?

They would have to pay back 26 million dollars plus legal fees and penalties, and then Pegasus still has the right to refuse continuing the lease. Basically LAB voided the contract by not paying their leasing fees.
Also, planes are seized in third countries all the time, i think it can even be seized in Bolivia, a plane that cant fly anywhere except Bolivia is useless for LAB and they will just be accumulating more and more debt if they don't return the plane.

An appeal would take a lot of time and even that cant stop the seizing of the plane. LAB didn't pay, what is there to appeal? A contract is a contract, the US court will not let LAB keep the plane out of sympathy.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
ghost77
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:05 am

Stay LB stay!!! Very unfortunately, since the last strike LB has several delayed flights and I think they aren't doing that right. Hopefully they stay!

ghost77 APM
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
 
rawch
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:33 pm

There was another article this morning from "La Prensa" regards LAB. Here is the link, but unfortunately it is only in Spanish:

http://www.prensa.com/hoy/negocios/547464.html

It basically states that there is maneuvering between the workers, the administration & the state to try and save the company. There is a labor dispute as well between current management & the workers, plus it states that the airline has a debt of roughly 160 million dollars. The government is trying to mediate, but there is bad blood between the parties involved.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Lloyd A�reo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:46 pm

Quoting Juventus (Reply 2):
Why is it that only AA flies to Bolivia? Without LAB, could DL support a flight from ATL or CO from IAH?

Because a good 95%+ of US-Bolivia traffic is to/from Miami and Washington, D.C.
a.
 
LVZXV
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:03 am

I am very sad to read this, LAB is just one of those airlines that is hard not to be fond of. They seem to have been doing a fair amount of downsizing in the last couple of years:


  • A310-300 CP-2232
  • B727-100 CP-1223
  • B727-200A CP-2427
  • B727-200F CP-2428 (opb. LAB Cargo)
  • B727-200A CP-2463 (opb. Ecuatoriana)
  • B737-300 CP-2391
  • F27-200 CP-2013

    That's about half the fleet. The make-up of LAB's fleet after the departure of the 767s would be:

    1 x B727-100 (CP-861)
    7 x B727-200A (CP-1276/1366/1367/2324/2429/2455/2464)
    1 x B737-300 (CP-2013)

    I wish LAB the best of luck; without the 767s, they'll be needing it.  pray 

    Saludos,

    ZXV
How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
 
georgiabill
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:08 am

Very sad news indeed. I hope a solution can be found. LAB was a good airline with good people working there.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:00 am

From what some Bolivian press is reporting, Madrid and Washington will be suspended, while Miami will continue, albeit most likely with a 727 via Panama City at reduced frequency. Good thing TAM is coming back to MIA-MAO.
a.
 
RAFVC10
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:57 am

Well, as I can know LB flights from MAD to VVI were always fully booked and the first and the only way to arrive to Bolivia with direct flight from Europe.

Could AR occupy this emptiness?? AR flights from EZE to VVI are well connected with those that come from Europe.
El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
 
Aero
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:29 am

That would be a lost for the entire Americas.

LAB is AFAIK a state-run airline, i assume the government is not able to place any guarantees for its carrier.

I was thinking that Pegasus could go to court and even retain the 727 fleet arriving at the US, if LAB does not pay the debt. That would be a disaster.

Giving the 767 back is one thing (losing revenues on the route it serves), paying thier debt is another.

I hope we can see LAB flying many many years more.

Rgds,
Aero
LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
MGA
Posts: 717
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:46 am

Damn, had no clue things were that bad down there.... Hope everything works out ok... Already saw Vasp and Ecuatoriana go down, dont need anothe one in the hole...

Here is an article in English about their financial situation:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/3751008.html

MGA
Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
 
Aero
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:02 am

Correction:

Quoting Aero (Reply 22):
LAB is AFAIK a state-run airline,

LAB was sold from the government to the private hand time ago.
I have read that the government is not willing to "inject" any money in LAB.

http://www.prensaescrita.com/diarios...BOL&pagina=http://www.la-razon.com
(Spanish only)
LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
LatinPlane
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:22 am

I hope that Evo Morales agrees to nationalize the airline. Otherwise, AeroSur will just take the position of Bolivia's national carrier.

I saw one of LAB's 767s at EZE on Sunday, right next to AeroSur's 722.

I really feel that LAB can be a success and a valuable asset for the country if it is properly managed.

LatinPlane
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
luisca
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:26 am

I have a question, if I buy a ticket MIA-PTY with LAB and the airline collapses can I get my money back if I buy it with a US Visa Card or Amex?

They used to be by far the cheapest to PTY and once they left prices skyrocketed (it cost right now about 750 $ to go to PTY) If they do fly via pty (the most likely scenario) i want to take the oportunity and spend a few days in Panama.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
Boeing747_600
Posts: 605
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:34 am

Jeez ... Would it kill those Pegasus chaps to leave LAB alone for a few years so that the airline can actually MAKE some money and then pay their dues ?!?!  headache 
 
Arcano
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:36 am

Sad news indeed, let's hope a gorgeous airline as LAB can survive this

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 21):
ould AR occupy this emptiness?? AR flights from EZE to VVI are well connected with those that come from Europe.



Quoting Luisca (Reply 6):
IF LB collapses I think JJ, RG, LA and CM will al fight for a piece of the pie on the routes to the US

I doubt LA or AR can be real options for Bolivia to Europe or USA. SCL and EZE are too far.
Maybe LP/XL can solve this problem.

Another alternative could be LA to start 3x/3x 767 service (or daily 320), like: EZE-IQQ-CCS or GYE-MIA.

That way, LA would offer a much better choise for ARI, IQQ, ANF, CJC, CPO, COR, LPB, VVI and SLA to USA...

Regards )( ARCANO
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773, 380, 73G, 788, 789, 346
 
luisca
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting Boeing747_600 (Reply 27):
Would it kill those Pegasus chaps to leave LAB alone for a few years so that the airline can actually MAKE some money and then pay their dues ?!?!

Are you for real? This is the stupidest comment i have read in a long time.

LAB signed a contract, LAB agreed to pay x amount of money to Pegasus every month for the use of their planes. LAB doesn't pay, Pegasus doesn't fly.

If they were not sure if they could pay they shouldn't have leased the planes in the first place, besides it is irresponsible to not have paid because this plane was used on money making routes, they used the money that was supposed to pay the leasing bill for other things.

How can you possibly just say leave LAB alone for a few years, What about Pegasus's interest? they need to pay there bills and there salaries too. And the chances of LAB recovering are slim if they don't solve there labor issues.

How would you like to be owed 26 million dollars? A business is a business and Pegasus is a business and not a charity organization.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
AR385
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:42 am

I flew LAB, MIA-MAO-VVI in 1998 in C on their A-310's The service sucked, and a lot of passengers from Y started moving to C after takeoff from MIA. Cabin crew did nothing, I never understood this.

I do however know that they have the best pilots in America (I hate the title "The Americas") Years of operation in the middle of the Andes and never a crash. In the months I spent in Bolivia that year I flew them VVI-La Paz, VVI-Cochabamba, VVI-Cochabamba-La Paz and VVI-Puerto Suarez in their 727's and man, those planes flew in the middle of the mountains like the pilots were flying in the middle of the Ocean.

It would be a shame for those pilots to loose their jobs. Taking off from La Paz on the way to VVI and seeing the Illimani so close really gives you the creeps. You can't help but think about about the Eastern 727 crash in that mountain.

After my months there ended I flew them VVI-GRU in C on a 727 and this time the service was fantastic. Great seats, great seat-pitch, outstanding service from the F/A and a very pleasant flight.

I would be very sorry to see them go, but what I cannot understand is how can their current administration has let this happen. I mean if their route to MIA and MAD are pretty much full all the time, as well as the run to IAD and the one to EZE, I really can't see a cashflow problem of this magnitude. Unless of course we start talking about criminal mismanagement. Could that be possible?
 
RCS763AV
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:11 pm

I dont want to see LAB die. South American aviation will be very boring if this trend continues, dominated by LA, JJ, AV and AR (if RG dissapears)...i mean thats 4 airlines for more than 350 million people!
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
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RE: Lloyd A�reo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:19 pm

Quoting Luisca (Reply 26):
I have a question, if I buy a ticket MIA-PTY with LAB and the airline collapses can I get my money back if I buy it with a US Visa Card or Amex?

I wouldn't do it. I've just read a quote from LAB's finance chief saying that they don't have the money to refund pax's money, which in my opinion is a very very bad sign. I don't think LAB will survive this crisis. A complete bankrupcy and liquidation is only a matter of hours.  Sad

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 29):
Pegasus is a business and not a charity organization.

That phrase synthesizes everything. I agree with you.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 76

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:09 am

Still bad news for LAB. Up-dated bad news for LAB [sorry, only in Spanish]

http://www.prensaescrita.com/diarios...&pagina=http://www.laprensa.com.bo
"El Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano (LAB) anunció ayer la suspensión definitiva de todos sus vuelos a Madrid, España, debido a la decisión de una Corte de Miami que ordena la devolución de dos aeronaves 767-300 a la empresa Pegasus Aviation, lo que llevaría a su confiscación en caso de salir del país. También están en riesgo, desde hoy, los vuelos a Miami, Estados Unidos.
“La ruta a Madrid queda definitivamente cancelada”, informó ayer el gerente financiero de la compañía, Carlos Di Marchi.
Allí se centró la mayor preocupación del Gobierno.
Ayer, más de 200 pasajeros permanecían varados en el Aeropuerto Jorge Wilstermann luego de que la empresa decidiera suspender el vuelo a la ciudad de Madrid que debía llevarse a cabo el lunes a las 19.30.
Una comisión de la Superintendencia de Transportes llegó hasta Cochabamba para investigar las circunstancias en las que se suspendió el vuelo del lunes.
El director de Regulación de la Superintendencia de Transportes, Abdón Porcel, confirmó esta situación tras realizar una inspección a la compañía y al aeropuerto de Cochabamba.
El funcionario indicó que se verificó que la orden de la Corte estadounidense está en vigencia y que las dos naves regresarán a Estados Unidos —posiblemente— en cinco días después que la Dirección General de Aeronáutica Civil (DGAC) concluya el trámite para quitar las matrículas bolivianas con las que funcionan los aviones del LAB. El plazo concedido por Pegasus para que el LAB pague 5 millones de dólares de los 25 millones adeudados vence hoy, 29 de marzo.
Di Marchi afirmó que la pérdida del servicio de las dos aeronaves significará para la empresa una pérdida económica de 25 millones de dólares al año por la cancelación de la ruta a Madrid y cerca de 12 millones de dólares anuales por las restricciones en los vuelos a Estados Unidos, que a partir de hoy serán cubiertos por las aeronaves 727-200 de menor capacidad de pasajeros.
“Una de las dos aeronaves requeridas por la empresa Pegasus mediante una orden judicial emprenderá vuelo a Estados Unidos sin pasajeros ni carga y con un costo para la empresa de aproximadamente 25 mil dólares, que incluye combustible, viáticos y hotel de la tripulación”, añadió Di Marchi.
El director general de Aeronáutica Civil, capitán Javier García, indicó que su oficina esperará el resultado de las negociaciones entre el LAB y la empresa Pegasus, antes de proceder a la desmatriculación de dos aeronaves Boeing 767-300.
Por otra parte, la fiscal de la Comisión Anticorrupción, Carmiña Llorenti, manifestó que se notificó al empresario Ernesto Asbún para que se presente a la audiencia en el Juzgado Tercero de Instrucción en lo Penal Cautelar este miércoles 29 de marzo a las 10.30."

Complete text and source: Link mentioned above.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:20 am

If LB situation gets worse, It'll be awful to see them go.
AA leaves ASU, LB has problems with its MIA route because of the leased B767...
Where's booming CM when they're needed in Paraguay and Bolivia??
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6166
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:29 am

What is the issue at stake that motivated Evo Morales to accuse the Supreme Court (Tribunal Constitucional) of accepting bribes from Asbún (or something like that)?

Maybe this is JJ's chance to start flying to MAD. They could route the flight VVI-GRU-MAD. I think JJ should also start VVI-MAO-MIA flights. AV could also add VVI-BOG-MIA flights.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Aero
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 2:55 am

RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 35):
Where's booming CM when they're needed in Paraguay and Bolivia??



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 35):
Maybe this is JJ's chance to start flying to MAD. They could route the flight VVI-GRU-MAD. I think JJ should also start VVI-MAO-MIA flights. AV could also add VVI-BOG-MIA flights.

This is of course a Chance for JJ, LA, CM, AR, LP, LX and AV..but i´d still prefer to see LAB flying around.

Remember AeroPerú, Viasa, LAP, etc..?
LAN...the star of the Latin American skies
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 36):
AV could also add VVI-BOG-MIA flights.

Hola Eduardo. Question:

Why when talking about airports in Bolivia everyone refers to VVI instead of LPB ?

[Edited 2006-03-29 22:49:34]
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
Boeing747_600
Posts: 605
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 1999 4:01 am

RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:28 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 29):
LAB signed a contract, LAB agreed to pay x amount of money to Pegasus every month for the use of their planes. LAB doesn't pay, Pegasus doesn't fly.

Big Deal. All they have to do is work out a negotiated payment plan in court.
 
757MDE
Posts: 1451
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 11:45 am

RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 36):
AV could also add VVI-BOG-MIA flights.

I don't think there's enough traffic from Colombia to Bolivia nor connections to sustain the route baring in mind LAB flies to BOG still (in a very weird schedule that is).

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 38):
Why when talking about airports in Bolivia everyone refers to VVI instead of LPB ?

Viru Viru is the main international Airport of Bolivia and hub of LAB because LPB being the highest commercial Airport in the world hinders Airplanes' performance way too much. Besides, La Paz might be one of the capitals but Santa Cruz region is the most developed and most strong economically speaking in Bolivia. There's even a movement aiming to give that region more autonomy like say... País Vasco or Catalunya in Spain.

That's basically it, if I made some mistake feel free to correct. I'd hope 123 would appear to give us first hand insight.

[Edited 2006-03-29 23:45:51]
Quisiera volveraamartevolveraquerertevolveratenertecerrrrcaademígirl! Mis ojos lloran porrr ti...
 
123
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 40):
I'd hope 123 would appear



Quoting LeoDF (Reply 1):
Surely 123 has got further info that I would gladly like to read

Hello here I am!

I was lost because (almost) all what a.netters mentioned in this forum is regretably true. LB is going down the drain in ever faster circles and I wonder when this terror (to pax like myself) will end.

I flew LB 810 CBB/LPB on 27th of March: Good old 727-100 CP861, pax load around 70%: Scheduled takeoff 07:00, on-the-minute ontime departure (not pushback!). Usual smiles, usual service. Why doesn´t it work?

Most flights within Bolivia are going right on time or nearly on time, yet consumer confidence is down and many choose 5L as alternative.

The talks of 5L to take LB are strong in the news but I wonder if 5L has enough logistics and $$$ to manage that. With good support of bankers or of Mexicana (they have most 727´s from them) it should however be possible.

Politics are the main fuz in the LB problem. Ever since the privatisation by Vasp - which was a total disaster - politics have turned around the LB management like crazy, trying to dig into it´s economy for personal benefit. Even now, the Government requested the intervention of the airline which led only to more pax misconfidence, and it turned out the move of the Government was illegal.

The incredible part is how consumers are facing LB problems: Yesterday evening at CBB they started to riot and even wanted to board any LB plane on the tarmac to leave... to Spain. CBB/VVI/MAD route has the most demand and will no longer exist unless they get new longrange aircraft: Their obsolete 727's and even the 733 will never make it for longrange.

To take 727's to MIA is the only option LB has now. And you can be sure AA will win. Who wants to fly the slow route via PTY to MIA?

LB is important for Bolivia and for South America. Without it, Bolivia looses it´s main airline and one of it´s mayor companies so let´s cross our fingers all will work out well.

Has the Asbun administration of LB really failed, or (as in my opinion) is the main fault the long strike of the pilots in February?

For many of you, it is nostalgic to think of LB and also you think of your pockets for the low fares LB offered internationally. For us here in Bolivia, it is a huge problem due to the integration value LB has in Bolivia and in Latin America.

Last not least, over 2200 persons working for LB = around 10000 mouths that eat every day (with family), are now with uncertainty of what will be tomorrow.

Let´s keep up the thread for latest news... Sad
 
legacy135
Posts: 966
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 38):
Why when talking about airports in Bolivia everyone refers to VVI instead of LPB ?

One of the main problems with LPB is it's elevation of 13'313ft. Many modern airliners are just not certified to operate at airports of such an elevation. For example with the Embraer we face a maximum operational altitude of 8'500ft, so we are just legal for Bogota, but no La Paz either.

The last time we got an operational visit of Embraer, the factory-pilot showed me on his Laptop a video he made, by going into Quito (9'213ft). What was funny, is to realize a number of amber lights, showing a malfunction of the pressurization as the system wasn't programmed and certified to handle it by this time. But they will eventually come and certify the airplane up to a little higher operational altitude. We do have at least a "High Alt" provision in the cockpit, but by touching it yet, it only causes a warning as it isn't ready yet.

Just imagine, on a normal pressurization schedule you will get all the cabin warnings at 10'000ft cabin altitude. By 12'500ft or so the masks will pop out. In order to prevent an over-pressurized cabin, the outflow valves open on touch down. So imagine, flying into La Paz with an aircraft, not legal for.......  Wow! ....... you guess it........ on touch down all masks will pop out.

Sure, there is also the possibility to lock the masks by the crew, but someone needs to make a plan first, otherwise it can bring up some unexpected surprises.  dopey 

Cheers
Legacy135 Wink
 
LipeGIG
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 36):
Maybe this is JJ's chance to start flying to MAD. They could route the flight VVI-GRU-MAD. I think JJ should also start VVI-MAO-MIA flights. AV could also add VVI-BOG-MIA flights.

JJ can use Tam Mercosur to fly ASU-VVI-MAO, but they do not have frequencies to MAD (in Brazil, only Varig with 7 and BRA with 10 got the frequencies nowadays).

Tam is really lucky, start FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA and the established player (MAO-MIA), LAB, face problems and drop the route.

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 31):
I dont want to see LAB die. South American aviation will be very boring if this trend continues, dominated by LA, JJ, AV and AR (if RG dissapears)...i mean thats 4 airlines for more than 350 million people!

Don't forget Gol.

Just a little comment, one of the LAB's 763 is at GIG i believe waiting for maintenance (and probably money)


Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
123
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:45 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 43):
JJ can use Tam Mercosur to fly ASU-VVI-MAO

Dont´forget that in the past - a few years ago - PZ requested open skies to and within Bolivia - rejected due to LB's strength.

Respecting LB and their employees it is a good option for Bolivia to have an open sky policy, which will probably lead to more flights, cheaper flights, and more persons working in the airline industry = overall win.
 
starrion
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:56 am

LAB has how many employee's?

2200?

LVZXV said they have eight 727's, one 737 and (for the moment) two 767's.

200 people per aircraft?

Delta, my favorite financial basket-case of an airline has 47,000 employees supporting 682 aircraft. That's a little under 70 people per plane.

Is LAB overstaffed?
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
EddieDude
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:19 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 43):
they do not have frequencies to MAD (in Brazil, only Varig with 7 and BRA with 10 got the frequencies nowadays)

Is BRA using them? Is there any chance JJ can get frequencies to fly to MAD in the near future or does the bilateral agreement between Brazil and Spain need to be amended?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Summa767
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 42):
For example with the Embraer we face a maximum operational altitude of 8'500ft

Hello there! Thanks for his interesting fact! But does it apply to the Embraers 135/145 only? I ask, as I know that TAME of Ecuador will be getting some 170s, or have got them already, so presumibly they will have to be certified for UIO?
 
Arcano
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:03 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 34):
El Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano (LAB) anunció ayer la suspensión definitiva de todos sus vuelos a Madrid, España

It hurts when reading, doesn't it?

Quoting 757MDE (Reply 40):
ides, La Paz might be one of the capitals but Santa Cruz region is the most developed and most strong economically speaking in Bolivia

BTW, isn't Sucre the actual legal capital of Bolivia?
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2travel2know
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RE: Lloyd Aéreo Boliviano Ordered To Return Its 767s

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:28 am

Quoting 123 (Reply 41):
CBB/VVI/MAD route has the most demand and will no longer exist unless they get new longrange aircraft: Their obsolete 727's and even the 733 will never make it for longrange.

VVI-BEL-SID-MAD on a B727-200 or B737-300 ?!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 43):
Tam is really lucky, start FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA and the established player (MAO-MIA), LAB, face problems and drop the route.

JJ isn't that lucky with MAO, CM is starting MAO-PTY daily soon with a GOL code share...
I don't work for COPA Airlines!