Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:05 pm

According to Fight International the A318 Elite is becoming some kind of hot-seller, which has racked up 26 orders and commitments for this bird since launch in November. Each bird is priced at 45 million USD... which means that this bird has already secured 1.1 billion USD in future turn-over for Airbus.

It appears that offering the A318 Elite has spurred interest in the A319CJ as well, with Comlux, launch customer for the A318 Elite taking one A319 in the near future as well.
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
pavlin
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 5:34 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:07 pm

26 orders in 4 months. It is almost like A320
 
voodoo
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:14 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:04 pm

Is there a technical reason why the 318 can't be fitted with the tankage to get the equivalent range (or more) of the 319CJ?
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting Voodoo (Reply 2):
Is there a technical reason why the 318 can't be fitted with the tankage to get the equivalent range (or more) of the 319CJ?

The reason given was the difficulty of putting the ACTs thru the rear cargo door. There are studies for custom-sized tanks. I believe a fixed belly tank is feasible for those users who don't require much flexibility.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
JoeCattoli
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:22 am

I think it's a good idea to have created the A318 Elite... It could be bought by governments as well... I'm sure they will add new tanks as the demand increase...
Does these babybuses use the purpose-developed PW's? I'd guess so.

Ciao  wave 
Joe
 
WINGS
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting JoeCattoli (Reply 4):
Does these babybuses use the purpose-developed PW's? I'd guess so.

Yes the PW6000 will be an option on the A318Elite.

http://www.stockhouse.com/news/news.asp?tick=UTX&newsid=3403101
RE: PW6000 Engines To Be Offered On The A318 Elite. (by OyKIE Jan 26 2006 in Civil Aviation)#ID2572587

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
User avatar
breiz
Posts: 1420
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:12 pm

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
the A318 Elite is becoming some kind of hot-seller, which has racked up 26 orders

Beats me. I have logged only 10 commitments so far: 3 + 2 from Comlux and 5 from National Air Services, of which only 3 from Comlux are confirmed orders.
Any suggestions?
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
According to Fight International the A318 Elite is becoming some kind of hot-seller,

Maybe helped in part by the Lufthansa-Technik reveal? http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...nsa+Technik+reveal+A318+Elite.html
In a sense, most of the liabilities attributed to the airliner version like heavy structure, huge wings, too much range, large engines, etc. have been turned into assets which made the ELITE possible. It's how well those attributes could be further parlayed which would make the A318 ELITE a truly global corporate/ government machine. However, there's at least one A.netter here who doesn't have faith in their own product, but won't, understandably, share his reasons.

[Edited 2006-03-28 23:49:15]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 6):
I have logged only 10 commitments so far: 3 + 2 from Comlux and 5 from National Air Services,

Old news item on Airbus site shows 3+3 for Comlux, 5+5 for NAS and another 5 undisclosed. Maybe there were some more since that time which FI know of?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
JoeCattoli
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:57 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 5):
Yes the PW6000 will be an option on the A318Elite

I know but I meant: Do the new A318 Elite customers all get PW's as they are the most efficient engines?

Ciao
Joe
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Posts: 3807
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 8):
Old news item on Airbus site shows 3+3 for Comlux, 5+5 for NAS and another 5 undisclosed. Maybe there were some more since that time which FI know of?

DEVILFISH those are the exact numbers that I have too therefore I feel that some further commitments have been made which FI know about but have yet to be publicly announced by Airbus.

Of note, the 5 undisclosed are for a Corporation so I feel they would not have 5 options attached in which case 26 would be the number of commitments that they would have.

On another note, I feel Airbus made a good decision by going ahead with the A318 Elite as it fills a niche in the Corporate Jet sector well and compliments the A319CJ. It also has provided a good hegde for airlines which previously commited to the model but converted to the A319 for various reasons. IB being a good example of this. They get to maintain the orders and Corporate Jets usually don't sell for discounts to the same degree as "bulk" orders from airlines which means Airbus stand a better chance of retaining a greater return on such sales.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3657
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting JoeCattoli (Reply 9):
Do the new A318 Elite customers all get PW's as they are the most efficient engines?

No. As example, the last officially acknowledged order says the customer chose CFM56 engines.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 10):
On another note, I feel Airbus made a good decision by going ahead with the A318 Elite as it fills a niche in the Corporate Jet sector well and compliments the A319CJ. It also has provided a good hegde for airlines which previously commited to the model but converted to the A319 for various reasons.

After reading about it in AI when Airbus was trying to secure enough commitments to launch the A318, I sent a message through their website suggesting that they also come up with a business version of the A318 with the same range as the ACJ, to more quickly achieve the magic number - 100. I cited the smaller conglomerates/nations who could not quite stretch to the A319 to support the idea, and concluded the message saying that an unwelcome outcome of a successful A318 corporate/presidential jet might be to kill off the ACJ altogether. I doubt if the message got any higher than the webmaster. They must have scoffed at my audacity, but I think they also didn't want that to happen and didn't want to be seen as releasing a "smaller" competitor. Later, Boeing was to announce a "range of business jets." I also remember reading Egypt Air as one of the launch airlines for the A318 with 3, but don't know what became of it.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Posts: 3807
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:42 pm

Hi DEVILFISH

Good on you for sending them a note expressing your views. I was surprised that they went with the smaller option and not an A320. Like Boeing with 73G to 738 BBJ1 & BBJ11 variants. But each to their own.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 12):
I also remember reading Egypt Air as one of the launch airlines for the A318 with 3, but don't know what became of it.

It was a subsidiary, Air Cairo which ordered 6 last year but converted them to 4 x A320s instead on December 23rd (as listed on Airbus spreadsheet) but the announcement was made well before then. Though that could be a seperate commitment to that which you refer to. IIRC Egypt Air had placed an order for the A318 before but converted or cancelled.

I'm really not sure of the full details of that order though, where's Horus when we need him?  Smile

Either way, I feel the A318 Elite will do well in it's niche for the reasons stated above.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:29 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 13):
IIRC Egypt Air had placed an order for the A318 before but converted or cancelled.

Hi PanAm_DC10,

It's nice to know there's somebody else besides me who's rooting for the ELITE (just this A product) despite its shortcomings. It had no direct competition after Boeing stopped promoting the 736 as a business platform. But I really must wonder about the 100+ A318 airline launch commitments bruited about before. Do they seriously mean that majority of those just plain cancelled/converted or worse (for Airbus), switched to Boeing? How many have been delivered (AF, F9, Mexicana) and those still outstanding?

Best regards, mate!
DF
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Posts: 3807
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:56 pm

Hi DF

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
But I really must wonder about the 100+ A318 airline launch commitments bruited about before

To be fair, and anyone can correct me, but that number was almost achieved. It's just that some carriers chose to convert to the A319 to meet growth requirements, such as IB and Air Cairo. Meanwhile, others have found it to be the right platform and continue to order such as AF which exercised 3 of 10 options last year and Frontier whom converted 6 x A319 to 4 x A318 & 2 x A320. Meanwhile LAN selected 20 firm so demand still exists.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
Do they seriously mean that majority of those just plain cancelled/converted or worse (for Airbus),

Yes some have been cancelled such as HPs 15, yet the majority, as previously mentioned, have been conversions. Some are the victim of Politics or Financing and their status has been deferred until a solution found. TAROMs 4 would be a good example of this.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
switched to Boeing?

I would not say switched to Boeing. In fact, as evidenced by LAN, the 736 has suffered from some campaign's at the A318s expense. LAN also have a good number of options on the A318

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 14):
How many have been delivered (AF, F9, Mexicana) and those still outstanding?

AF have ordered 18 and have 12 in operation with 7 remaining options*

MX have 10 in operation*

F9 have 10 on order (+4?) and 7 in operation*

Airbus list 82 firm orders with the NAS order and F9s Conversions yet to be listed. Of these they list 29 as delivered and in service.

Source: http://www.airbus.com/odxml/orders_and_deliveries.xls

* There are other, far more knowledgeable members than I whom may have more up to date information which would correct the numbers I have posted in good faith. As I know some of these numbers are not quite accurate and my files are at home. If you are one of them, clarification would be appreciated.

Anyway, hope that helps a little more Devilfish and it's good to have a civil discussion. Flying-Tiger, apologies for going OT a little.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:14 pm

PanAm_DC10,

Thank you very much for all the information and the effort that went into it. Much obliged. I don't have the numbers either for I'm much too lazy too keep track of those, and have tired of skimming A's and B's order webpages as the more juicy stuff (like the unknown Elite orders) could not be found there.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 15):
and it's good to have a civil discussion.

Some here may have a distaste for harmless banter, but I only joined to further my knowledge and enjoyment of aviation. And at my age, would like to believe I had already outgrown such juvenile aggressiveness.

Good night (here, that is)
DF
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:43 pm

Is A318 Elite like 738 (whichever model) BBJ?
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 17):
Is A318 Elite like 738 (whichever model) BBJ?

The 736 is the closest sizewise to the Elite, both being shrunk models. When Boeing was talking about a "range of BBJs" they were probably thinking 717, 736, BBJ, 738 and 739, not to mention the larger "flying palaces" . The 717 business jet never caught on because of its very short range. The 736BJ was dropped by Boeing last January due to lack of orders. Taiwan has a 738 govt VIP aircraft. Perhaps there already is a 739 BBJ on order which I'm not aware of.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 13):
I was surprised that they went with the smaller option and not an A320.

But they do have it on offer. It is called the A320 PRESTIGE. Maybe it is just because an order for it hasn't been received yet. Click the Corporate Jet Family on their website.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
milan320
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:25 pm

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:21 am

Anyone know the list price of the A318 Elite? If I recall correctly the A319CJ sells for 35 Million USD Green.
-Milan320
I accept bribes ... :-)
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Milan320 (Reply 20):
Anyone know the list price of the A318 Elite?



Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Each bird is priced at 45 million USD.



Quoting Milan320 (Reply 20):
If I recall correctly the A319CJ sells for 35 Million USD Green.

That was way back when.....inflation and sharp increases in production costs, not to mention the urge to earn more profit, have driven up prices dramatically.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 10):
and Corporate Jets usually don't sell for discounts to the same degree as "bulk" orders from airlines

It could be that to sell more of this (A318) relatively less in-demand airframe, Airbus might discount the ELITE aggressively.
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
nudelhirsch
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 6:20 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:35 am

How far away are they from the price range of business jets like the GV and Lears and Dassaults and so?
Putana da Seatbeltz!
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting Nudelhirsch (Reply 22):
How far away are they from the price range of business jets like the GV and Lears and Dassaults and so?

Last time I found a comparison table, the ACJ and BBJ weren't much more expensive then other, smaller business jets. However, maintenance and fuel burn is a lot higher.
I support the right to arm bears
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Posts: 3807
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:29 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 16):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 15):
and it's good to have a civil discussion.

Some here may have a distaste for harmless banter, but I only joined to further my knowledge and enjoyment of aviation. And at my age, would like to believe I had already outgrown such juvenile aggressiveness.

Hi DF, in no way was my statement meant as comment or to imply that any of your posts had been of such a nature. It was recognition that I was indeed enjoying our discussion. I meant no offence and am here to learn too.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 19):
But they do have it on offer. It is called the A320 PRESTIGE. Maybe it is just because an order for it hasn't been received yet. Click the Corporate Jet Family on their website.

Such as I just did sir, thank you for I had missed that link. Of note, IIRC, one of the reasons cited by Boeing for launching the BBJ11 was at the specific request of certain customers for more luggage space, amongst others. That said, IMO, I feel if it's on offer we may yet see an order shortly, any chance that some PRESTIGE models have been ordered though remain undisclosed? After all, people whom purchase these airplanes usually like to keep quiet about it.

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 21):
Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 10):
and Corporate Jets usually don't sell for discounts to the same degree as "bulk" orders from airlines

It could be that to sell more of this (A318) relatively less in-demand airframe, Airbus might discount the ELITE aggressively.

That could be considered a fair point though as you mention earlier the A318 is more in competition with the B736 of which Boeing offer no BBJ based model. With no competition from Boeing in this sector it might actually work to their advantage where they don't have to price the ELITE aggressively as they would have to. Just a thought.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
milan320
Posts: 818
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:25 pm

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:23 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 21):
Quoting Flying-Tiger (Thread starter):
Each bird is priced at 45 million USD.

Oops missed that .. thanks for pointing it out ...
I accept bribes ... :-)
 
Flying-Tiger
Topic Author
Posts: 3924
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 1999 5:35 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:38 pm

If I'm not mistaken there is at least one A320CJ already in operation for National Air Service (MEG region, should be Saudi Arabia).

The A318 Elite might easily outsell the airline A318 in the medium, probably even short-term. The A318 was born out of necessity to combat the B717 (very successfully) and the B737-600 (successfully as well). And it has more or less kept Bombardier out of the C Series business, and has restricted sales for the Embraer 195 so far. All in all very successful for Airbus at very low costs.

I doubt that we will see many larger A318 or for that matter B737-600 orders in the coming years, the A319 and B737-700 are basically better suited for most of the missions operated by the A318, excluding some really long legs at low payloads. The future for the A318 lies in corporate travel...
Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
 
Devilfish
Posts: 5261
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 am

RE: Airbus A318 Elite Sells Well

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 24):
I meant no offence

None taken, sorry if it appeared the opposite. And thank you too for a most pleasant exchange.

Quoting Flying-Tiger (Reply 26):
The future for the A318 lies in corporate travel...

So any chance of a German AF1 as discussed in MilAv?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield