cpos
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:22 am

LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:10 am

Just landed at Laguardia this morning on DL1907 from BOS. I've done this trip about 50 times in the last 15 months and always had the same question when landing on rwy 31. Never got a chance to ask the flight crew.

Is 31 visual only or is it ILS? It seems like the gear go down around 1800ft but then there is a sweeping left turn at about 1000 or so. If it is an ILS approach, when do you actually hit the localizer? Prior to, during, or after the turn?

Thanks
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:48 am

i think you're talking about the expressway visual.

when they're using the localizer, you usually fly right over LGA and make a series of right turns over the sound and line-up for a straight-in 31 approach.

i could be wrong tho
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
FlyHoss
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:20 pm

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:56 am

The approach you're describing sounds like the "Expressway Visual" to runway 31. Runway 31 also has an instrument approach; it's a localizer approach (an ILS without the glideslope component).

When flying the Expressway Visual to 31, I always to tune in the localizer to 31 as a back-up reference to the final portion of the approach, but rarely notice it, as the approach often demands nearly full visual attention outside (to line up with the runway centerline and to (visually) acquire the VASI (Visual Approach Slope Indicator lights)).
A little bit louder now, a lil bit louder now...
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:14 am

ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 1184
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 1):
i think you're talking about the expressway visual.

when they're using the localizer, you usually fly right over LGA and make a series of right turns over the sound and line-up for a straight-in 31 approach.

i could be wrong tho

thats exactly right. it seems the localizer is used when the winds are above a certain speed
 
VEEREF
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:55 am

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 4):
thats exactly right. it seems the localizer is used when the winds are above a certain speed

Generally more to do with ceiling and visibility than windspeed. Done both with winds gusting to the 30's.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 4077
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:51 am

Yeh, localizer is used for wind only.

They hate , repeat, absolutely hate using it.

As for delays, the minute the switch to the Rwy 31 LOC, you are looking at an EDCT (Expect Dep Clearance Time) wherever ur coming from.

If the winds are strong enough and they switch to LOC 31 and departures of 31 as well, you are looking at 2-4 hr delays!! Minimum!

Now if they are using Exp Visual 31, and the visibility drops, they will switch to the ILS 4 circle to land 31.

Basically the same thing. When u hit the tanks u hang a right until Flushing Meadows . . . the a diving left.

Love the Expwy Visual Approach.


'LaGuardia Tower, Eagle 4801 over the Tanks'


 Smile

PJ
 
N864DA
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:17 pm

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:08 am

As mentioned, there are two approaches to 31. The first is the the Expressway visual, which is used when the winds are not that strong (or else the approach is too dangerous). It follows the LGA VOR at R-225 degrees until the DIALS intersection then turns in the direction of the Long Island Expressway (hence the name) at about 85 degrees, then over the little inlet starts turning left to line up with the runway. By the time the runway heading is reached, the plane is almost at the touchdown point. It is a strictly visual approach.

The second approach is used when the crosswinds are too strong for the first approach to be safe, but runway 31 is the only option to land. It follows the sound, then makes a series of right turns, the last one a very steep 180-degree turn to line up with the runway, about 11nm away. I experienced that approach this month and I can see why pilots hate using it. The winds combined with the steep turns make it unpleasant to anyone on board.

N864DA
 
jumbojet
Posts: 1184
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 6):
Yeh, localizer is used for wind only.

They hate , repeat, absolutely hate using it.

if your lucky enough to be on the left side of the plane and have a window seat you get great overviews of JFK airport on the localizer apprch.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 6):
Love the Expwy Visual Approach.

you can say that again, it gets me excited  Smile
 
firstclasser
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2001 3:39 am

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

I noticed an approach over the Cross-Island Expressway, in which the aircraft went north (just to the East of JFK), and then turned left to land on 31 left. Is this a derivative of the Expwy Visual?
 
SoBe
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 12:11 am

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 6):
Love the Expwy Visual Approach.

I've only been on it once. It was awesome.

Sorry for plugging my own photo.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Lowing

 
beertrucker
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:13 pm

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:03 am

here u go i will see if i can find a better one while i post this one.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/video_streaming.php?id=4604

here is a wild one of a 737. they had to make a s- turn to avoid departing traffic.
http://www.flightlevel350.com/video_streaming.php?id=1851

[Edited 2006-03-29 00:07:52]

[Edited 2006-03-29 00:08:57]
Fly HI
 
spikebe90
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:06 am

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:44 am

IT's even fun in a King Air!!!!!!
keep it in the middle of the road
 
dallas74
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:09 am

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting SoBe (Reply 10):
Sorry for plugging my own photo.

That is a great photo! Plug away!  Smile
 
dallas74
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:09 am

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting Beertrucker (Reply 11):
here is a wild one of a 737. they had to make a s- turn to avoid departing traffic.

Thank you for sharing those videos. They are great. I was on a flight that did one of those S-turns. It is quite a ride! The pilots who go in and out of LGA really do earn their pay.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 4077
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: LaGuardia Rwy 31 Approach Question

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:25 am

"The pilots who go in and out of LGA really do earn their pay."

Do we? Thank you sir!

Now being LGA based, can you please tell management that?!?!?!?

hahahah  Smile

PJ

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