NKMCO
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Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:41 am

Joint application of Independence and Compass (new? subsidiary of Northwest Airlines) for certificate transfer:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf95/391613_web.pdf

[Edited 2006-03-28 17:41:41]
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:48 am

Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?.. neither of which, NW nor NW Regional partnershave at the moment, do they?

Pretty cool.. And they will start flying in June of this year? Hmmm..
Aiming High and going far..
 
UPS707
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?.. neither of which, NW nor NW Regional partnershave at the moment, do they?

Reading through the document, it looks like it's between the EMB-175 and the CRJ-900 (possibly both) and the decision is due April 2006. Interesting approach, I'll be curious to see how this pans out.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?..

This is just a conjecture, but is it also possible that these 76 seat regional jets could be the Avros that Meseba operates on behalf of Northwest. They currently have a large first class section and are limited in the seats they can have due to a labor contract with mainline pilots. If Compass flew these planes with furloughed mainline pilots, then that could be an explanation.

Of course there also rumors going around about Northwest starting a new large RJ subsidiary with the Independence Air certificate.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
MalpensaSFO
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Looks like "Compass" will only be flying 76 seat aircraft.. Wonder if that means NW will be ordering the E-175 or the CR-705?.. neither of which, NW nor NW Regional partnershave at the moment, do they?

Lets hope it doesnt suffer the same fate as the original Compass.. wink 
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ERJ170
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 3):
but is it also possible that these 76 seat regional jets could be the Avros that Meseba operates on behalf of Northwest.

I checked it out.. the avros seat 69.. 16 F/ 53 Y.. but I suppose they could reconfigure them.. but aren't they a bit of a gas guzzler?
Aiming High and going far..
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5):
I checked it out.. the avros seat 69.. 16 F/ 53 Y.. but I suppose they could reconfigure them..

They are currently configured artificially low (69 seats) to accomodate their scope clause with the pilots, but they could easily get another row or two in there.

If "Compass" plans on flying 76-seat jets in 6/06, then surely it would have to begin with the Avros until the newly-ordered jets get delivered.

-Mike
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roseflyer
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5):
I checked it out.. the avros seat 69.. 16 F/ 53 Y.. but I suppose they could reconfigure them.. but aren't they a bit of a gas guzzler?

They may be older planes, but they are some of the only jets that can operate in to certain airports like Aspen. It is just a possibility, but I would expect that NW would want mroe seats on those planes if they could. 16 first class seats are a lot for a regional jet. This number is artificially lower than ideal, so I would guess that more economy seats would come if possible.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:16 am

As a follow-up...

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 6):
If "Compass" plans on flying 76-seat jets in 6/06, then surely it would have to begin with the Avros until the newly-ordered jets get delivered.

The footnote in page 2 (page 3 of the PDF file itself) clearly states that this is, in fact, the case.

The conjecture would be then for how long...

-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:17 am

Then I say pretty darn cool... The avros are cool.. And since they picked up the DH/ACA certificate, does this mean they can get the Dornier's they used to fly for DL and UA?
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PVD757
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:00 am

After reading the filing, it is clear that Compass would be operating CRJ-200s at first (possibly made up of some of DHs old birds as well as exisiting leased airframes already under the NW Airlink banner) then later obtaining the NEW 76 seat craft.

They also said in a footnote that Compass is designed to REPLACE Avro flying and upgrade certain CRJ flying later on.
 
m404
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:04 am

Does anyone have another link to this report? I'm not getting anything even after long normal PDF wait times. Would very much like to read this.
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delyan
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:10 am

What about the A319s?
 
corey07850
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:12 am

Well according to the PDF page 5, "Compass" will also start using Independence's CRJ's and still be based at IAD and fly to MSP.... Followed by using the Avro's, followed by "another" type of aircraft of which the amount depends on the manufacturers (I guess what kind of deal they can get)
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:13 am

Quoting Delyan (Reply 12):
What about the A319s?

all of FlyI's A319 were sold off. NW has some in storage, but in the Docket, it says they will not be using any A319 from DH. I think the Airline is supposed to be a 76 seat airline only..

Added information:

In case anyone is wondering, the first route is MSP-IAD.

[Edited 2006-03-29 02:15:03]
Aiming High and going far..
 
malaysia
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:19 am

Quoting Delyan (Reply 12):
What about the A319s?

They are long gone, sent to other airlines, cause they were on lease. and an A319 is a full mainline equipment anyway. would not work with Compass.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
Derik737
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:52 pm

If you read through the paperwork, they will not be flying Avro's. They will be flying ONE, yes one CRJ-200 back and forth twice a day between MSP and IAD for one year until the 76 seaters show up. This is to keep the certificate alive.

From the filing:

Fleet Information

As illustrated in the attached chart, Compass Airlines, Inc. plans to take delivery of one 50-seat Bombardier CRJ-200 aircraft in May, 2006. Subject to receipt of all required regulatory approvals, the CRJ-200 will begin operating revenue service in June, 2006. The CRJ-200 may possibly be sourced from former Independence Air aircraft which will be leased to Northwest Airlines and subleased to Compass. This will be a short-term arrangement and Compass anticipates that operation of this aircraft will be phased out during the last half of 2007.

Subject to receipt of all required regulatory approvals, Compass plans to take delivery of seventy-six (76) seat regional jet aircraft beginning in March, 2007. These aircraft will be the Bombardier CRJ-900 and/or the Embraer EMB-175. Final selection is expected to be made in April, 2006. Compass anticipates taking delivery of one aircraft per month in March, April and May, 2007, and taking delivery of two aircraft per month thereafter. By the end of 2010, Compass anticipates it will have taken delivery of at least thirty-six (36) seventy-six seat regional jet aircraft. Initially, these aircraft will be leased to Northwest Airlines and subleased to Compass. However, it is anticipated that Compass will eventually be able to obtain its own financing for these regional jet aircraft. Financing will be obtained at the best available terms.


Proposed flights for the first year:

IAD-MSP Departs 7:47 am - Arrives 9:32 am
MSP-IAD Departs 10:10 am - Arrives 1:32 pm
IAD-MSP Departs 2:15 pm - Arrives 3:58 pm
MSP-IAD Departs 6:55 pm - Arrives 10:25 pm

Note: It most likely won't be 7 days a week as the monthly block hours stated equal around 25 days of service a month. You have to have some time off for the small staff required! For that stated amount of block hours, I would think it would take around 4 crews (8 pilots).

[Edited 2006-03-29 05:58:11]
 
flyibaby
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:09 pm

I am actually surprised more than anything that Compass will take over both FLYi's HDQ and MX Hangar at IAD. Additionally, many of the top Flight Operations guys will be sticking around in similar positions at they had at FLYi. Makes me wonder if my old job will be available again?!?!
 
Derik737
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:42 pm

I missed that in the filing (taking over hangar and HDQ). There was a list of assets that Compass was purchasing which included training manuals, computer servers along with their software and the certificate of course. I'll have to read it again to see where they mentioned the hangar.

It's best to keep the same personnel during a certificate transfer as this makes the process a lot smoother. Once the certificate has been transferred, changes can be made. I wouldn't be surprised to see Compass move operations in the future and attempt to move the certificate to the MSP CMO instead of the MSP FSDO if they move to MSP.
 
goaliemn
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 17):
I am actually surprised more than anything that Compass will take over both FLYi's HDQ and MX Hangar at IAD.

They are required to, if they want it to happen before the certificate goes stale. If you don't fly for 6 months, the certificate goes stale, then you have to start over.

In the certificate, certain maintenance records are mentioned, as well as where they are kept. In this case, it mentions the IAD hangar, and the computer software used to maintain them. I'm sure they'll convert over to another system, but for speeds sake, you keep the current stuff in place for now.

Quoting Derik737 (Reply 18):
It's best to keep the same personnel during a certificate transfer as this makes the process a lot smoother.

Certain key personel are part of the certificate. They are mentioned by name/position. otherwise, I'd be shocked if any other positions become open from the old FlyI
 
planemaker
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:19 am

Here's a link to the Compass story in Aviation Now...

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/new...omm_story.jsp?id=news/COM03296.xml

Compass to start flights in June from a base at Washington Dulles Airport with a single CRJ-200...

The airline is targeting placing 76-seat planes into service during the first full year of operations, "under a tentative growth plan forecasting operation of at least 36 such aircraft in domestic markets in five years." The carrier noted those planes are replacing Avro RJs flown by partner Mesaba.

...the carrier wants to take delivery of larger planes, starting in March 2007. "These aircraft will be the Bombardier CRJ-900 and/or the Embraer 175," Northwest said. "Final selection is expected to be made in April 2006."

Compass would fly the -900s with 12 first-class seats and 64 in coach, while the Embraer 175s would be configured for 11 first-class seats and 64 in coach class.


[Edited 2006-03-29 20:27:50]
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toltommy
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:25 am

Quoting Derik737 (Reply 16):
If you read through the paperwork...

Thank you for saying that. So much speculation from people who didn't bother to even read it.
 
KAUSpilot
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:22 am

Sounds like another Frank Lorenzo-style strategy by Northwest to start an alter ego and further disenfranchise the employees of Northwest airlines, Mesaba, and Pinnacle.
 
airtran737
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:29 am

What does Compass mean for Mesaba and Pinnacle? Doesn't it kind of back them into a corner?
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malaysia
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:28 am

Oooooh I want to apply for Compass Air

They should use Compass Air in Asia for some NW routes that may need just a E-190

[Edited 2006-03-30 02:29:15]
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CIDFlyer
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:55 pm

Very interesting! Which one will NWA order? The Embraer would be cool, although the CR9 would have the commonality factor with the exisiting CRJ's.
I checked the Bombardier website and the CR9 on the inside looks pretty cool with much larger windows than the CRJ200's

http://www.crj.bombardier.com/CRJ/en/interior.jsp?langId=en&crjId=900

[Edited 2006-03-30 05:00:23]
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:13 pm

I think that if everything goes according to what they want Compass can be successful. I just hope they don't rush it. I found that that is what happened with FlyI is they tried to hard to get scheduled service up and running. If I were them, I would rather take longer and make money than to rush it and have to fold.

By the way, Compass seems like a very unique name, one that will stick out.

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KAUSpilot
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 23):
What does Compass mean for Mesaba and Pinnacle? Doesn't it kind of back them into a corner?

Exactly...however, there's talk of staffing compass with furloughed Northwest and Mesaba pilots, which I suppose is fine if it's true. Still, it seems like it'd make more sense to simply award these aircraft to one of the existing airlinks, or put them at mainline.

The only benefit to starting an entirely new company would be that you get to start every employee off at 1st year pay....probably the reason why they're doing it.
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:43 pm

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 27):
Exactly...however, there's talk of staffing compass with furloughed Northwest and Mesaba pilots, which I suppose is fine if it's true. Still, it seems like it'd make more sense to simply award these aircraft to one of the existing airlinks, or put them at mainline.

The only benefit to starting an entirely new company would be that you get to start every employee off at 1st year pay....probably the reason why they're doing it.

It is my understanding that Compass will basically be the long-term DC-9 and avro replacement (along with more Airbii at mainline). Therefore, NW will still need the pinnacle 50 seaters and the mesaba saabs. However, NW has put all 50-seat-jet and prop flying up for bid.
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Mexicana757
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:55 am

Here is a follow up on Compass Airlines and what NW has planned for them. I just saw this news report on the local news but found this online.

NW expects to have Compass flying by June. And someone mention above some of the managers that worked for FlyI will be working for the new Compass.
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?c...5e42c3-3dc4-4ee9-a780-e60162012ec2
 
AMFAproud
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RE: Compass To Take Over Independence Certificate

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:46 am

And look who NW pick to head the new spin off: www.amfa33.org/mr_bankruptcy.htm
"The apple doesn't fall far from the tree"

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