boeingfever777
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Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:31 am

Why does no N. American carrier ie: "AA, CO, DL, NW, US, or UA" fly direct from America to DXB? Is it due to laws or something or just not enough traffic to fly direct to the UAE from say JFK, ORD, EWR, ATL, or MIA?



EWR-DXB =5962 nm
JFK-DXB =5951 nm
MIA-DXB =6817 nm
ORD-DXB =6297 nm
ATL-DXB =6603 nm

All can be done with a 772ER it looks like w/o payload restrictions.
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fxramper
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:29 am

I'd vote for an AA flight doing ORD-FRA-DXB on 763. Are there to many European carriers going to DXB already?
 
IberiaA319
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:30 am

It seems that Delta used to operate to Dubai a few years ago. Press conference five years ago found on the Internet:

Delta Air Lines, America's leading transatlantic carrier, touched down for the first time at Dubai International Airport, in the United Arab Emirates, this evening marking the entry of the only US airline to directly serve the UAE market.

The UAE now becomes the 67th country on Delta's extensive worldwide network. Flight DL 120, which left New York JFK with a full passenger load, arrived at Dubai International Airport's state-of-the-art Sheikh Rashid Terminal, via Cairo, to a water-cannon salute and a VIP reception with His Highness Sheikh Ahmed bin Saeed al Maktoum,President, Department of Civil Aviation, Government of Dubai and Chairman of the Emirates Group heading the welcomingdelegation.

HH Sheikh Ahmed boarded the state-of-the-art, long-range MD-11 aircraft to personallywelcome to Dubai, a Delta delegation which included the airline's President and Chief Operating Officer, Frederick W. Reid and its Chief Financial Officer, Michele Burns.

"Delta's arrival is a major milestone in Dubai's rapidly evolving aviation history," said HH Sheikh Ahmed. "Dubai International Airport is now served by 95 carriers but Delta is the only American airline to offer a direct route to New York JFK.

Source: http://www.dubaiairport.com/NR/rdonl...AA06-28D0FBD87786/0/archives_6.pdf
 
ANother
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:34 am

That was shortly before 11 September 2001, and operated one-stop via CAI.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:36 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 3):
That was shortly before 11 September 2001, and operated one-stop via CAI.

They think ATL-JNB is gonna be more profitable...what a gamble for a carrier having such problems already.  Sad
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:40 am

Think about it. Given the unfortunate presence of radical terrorists in the Middle East who hate any and all things American, then American carriers might as well paint a big target on their aircraft should they decide to fly to that region. Insurance costs and common sense will keep American airlines away from the region for years to come.

Maybe North American carriers from Canada and Mexico should fly the route.

[Edited 2006-03-28 19:42:18]
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Lufthansa747
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting Fxramper (Reply 1):
Are there to many European carriers going to DXB already?

Many? Just about everybody flies there at least daily.
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fxramper
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):
Think about it. Given the unfortunate presence of radical terrorists in the Middle East who hate any and all things American, then American carriers might as well paint a big target on their aircraft should they decide to fly to that region. Insurance costs and common sense will keep American airlines away from the region for years to come.

CO does two daily flights to TLV... confused 
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:49 am

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 6):
Think about it. Given the unfortunate presence of radical terrorists in the Middle East who hate any and all things American, then American carriers might as well paint a big target on their aircraft should they decide to fly to that region. Insurance costs and common sense will keep American airlines away from the region for years to come.

That could understandably be a reason, but UAE is a safe country. It doesn't have an anti-American approach like, let's say, Iraq or Iran. I just think it's more of a business decision. I don't know if the market is demanding enough to justify flying from the US to DXB. Even if there were, it would only be available at limited quantity. Most US airlines serve DXB through alliances and partnerships, so indirectly, they do serve DXB. So far, it's been working for them.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 8):
US airlines serve DXB through alliances and partnerships

I guess the EI flight that started today will give AA a flight to DXB.
 
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 4):
They think ATL-JNB is gonna be more profitable...what a gamble for a carrier having such problems already.

It will. Also, in case you didn't notice, every U.S. carrier is having problems right now.

Besides, Delta going back to the Middle East soon is not too farfetched.
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boeingfever777
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:57 am

I thought the UAE was a safe country for westerns and tourism and that the government actively promoted tourism and travel to their country. That's is crazy about DL though flying to DXB, what metal were they using??? I would think that once EK starts flying LAX, SFO, and IAH in the feature that some N. American carriers would start flying to DXB. Does not have to be the airports I stated as JFK, ORD, EWR, MIA, or ATL. I also thought maybe IAD-DXB.

[Edited 2006-03-28 20:09:27]
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IberiaA319
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 11):
what metal were they using???

MD-11, as stated above.

Interesting this part of the press conference, what HH Sheikh Ahmed mentioned when the first DL flight arrived at DXB

"The USA is now a key target for various industries within Dubai. We are looking to bring more American tourists here and to enlist major US corporations into the growing number of multi-nationals operating regional headquarters here, particularly those from the I.T. and media sectors, which would be ideally located in the Technology Free Zone. "We look to Delta to assist in building awareness of Dubai and the UAE throughout the USA and the launch of this service will play a major role in creating a closer two-way relationship."
 
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:59 am

Leaving aside security issues, DXB has always been easy to access through European or Middle Eastern carriers. I would guess that even prior to 9/11, American carriers were content to route passengers to/from the Middle East via Europe as a matter of simplicity.

The only exception being Israel, but even now CO and DL are just beginning service there.

Logistically, it's a fair distance, and it seems to me that setting up a new station AND competing against carriers in your alliance might be a little self-defeating unless there is a HUGE demand all of a sudden. Let us also remember that UA, DL, and CO have a limited supply of wide-body airplanes, which could be another hindrance.
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positiverate
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:10 am

Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 10):
Besides, Delta going back to the Middle East soon is not too farfetched.

Not too farfetched at all, as evidenced by the TLV service they are just starting.
 
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 4):
They think ATL-JNB is gonna be more profitable...what a gamble for a carrier having such problems already

JFK-DXB will be difficult for Delta to restart since EK has double daily nonstops now anyway (not to mention the myriad number of connecting options through Europe). With JNB, Delta got a headstart through the codeshares with South African - they have gained significant operational insight into the market these past few years with SA and will have less competition also.
 
sllevin
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:06 am

I think US airlines don't operate to DXB for the same reason that European airlines don't fly to HNL -- there are simply the same opporunties (nice resorts, shopping, etc) that are much, much closer to home. An airline like EK flying into NYC has the ability to take on traffic that is headed beyond DXB -- a US carrier (for practical purposes) can't.

Steve
 
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 4):

They think ATL-JNB is gonna be more profitable...what a gamble for a carrier having such problems already.

If SA wasn't having practically full loads on that flight, DL wouldn't be jumping onto the route once SA pulls up stakes. The flights have had very good loads throughout the 6+ years SA has flown into ATL, and also have been a moneymaker cargowise as well.

As for DL returning to DXB, who really knows. Their 777 fleet is pretty much stretched thin and the only other choice would be to route it through a European city much like they've done their flights to India.
 
planespotting
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:32 am

FedEx goes there...my uncle used to overnight there all the time after taking the A300 through...his crew base was Paris and often times he'd go through ATH before hitting DXB.
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DeltaSFO
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:32 am

Based on the comments of Delta executives so far, I would be very surprised if Delta did not take delivery of the two B777s scheduled for early 2008 delivery. Until then, B767 routings via European cities can be used for market entry and a holdover until more suitable aircraft are on property.
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b777a340fan
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 9):
I guess the EI flight that started today will give AA a flight to DXB.

Sure thing, count BA/CX (members of the One World Alliance alongside AA), LH/OS (members of the Star Alliance alongside UAL, US), AF/KL (members of the SkyTeam alliance alongside DL and NW), to name a few.

[Edited 2006-03-29 00:15:27]
 
jacobin777
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 8):
. I don't know if the market is demanding enough to justify flying from the US to DXB.

EK flies 2 A345's JFK-DXB, of which one of the A345's is being switched to the 777-300ER......EK's Clark has also mentioned about sending the A380 to JFK....

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 16):
An airline like EK flying into NYC has the ability to take on traffic that is headed beyond DXB -- a US carrier (for practical purposes) can't.

that might be one issue for United States carriers to deal with...unless they can get some freedom rights to or through DXB/AUH, it might be difficult for them to be successful......
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KLM685
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):

Maybe North American carriers from Canada and Mexico should fly the route.

Awww this would be fantastic!!
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:41 am

UPS flies there as well with the MD-11

Jan
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AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:17 am

Continental code-shares with Emirates on EWR-MAN-DXB. (Continental EWR-MAN, Emirates MAN-DXB)

[Edited 2006-03-29 01:18:11]
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sllevin
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:48 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):
that might be one issue for United States carriers to deal with...unless they can get some freedom rights to or through DXB/AUH, it might be difficult for them to be successful......

I actually thought DXB gave everyone 5th freedom rights. Even with that, I don't think anyone would want to play in that particular playground, especially if it were only a flight a day or so.

Steve
 
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:55 pm

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 25):
I actually thought DXB gave everyone 5th freedom rights.

Correct.

The United Arab Emirates and Lebanon are the only countries in the Middle East with a complete open skies policy which automatically grants 5th freedom rights to any carrier.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
mah584jr
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 8):
That could understandably be a reason, but UAE is a safe country

While UAE might be a safe country, not many Americans are aware of that, nor could many even locate the country on the map. 9/11 changed many American's views on the safety of the middle east. Understandibly, most Americans still associate the middle east as a dangerous region to travel to. I just don't think the demand to fly there is great enough at this current time to warrant US flights to DXB. Perhaps that'll change in the future, but for now Americans seem to be fine connecting in Europe.
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 4):
They think ATL-JNB is gonna be more profitable...what a gamble for a carrier having such problems already.

ATL-JNB was one of SA's most profitable routes. DL's ATL-DKR-JNB will be a moneymaker without question.

Jeremy
 
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:21 pm

Let me add that while I'm sure North American airlines have been keeping a close eye on Dubai, I think they are also keeping a close eye on other untapped markets or less tapped markets in the Middle East.

Cairo and Beirut come to mind and maybe Amman.

If Iran/US relations are one day established, you can be sure to see airlines seriously looking into a couple of routes to Tehran.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
jacobin777
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:29 pm

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 25):
I actually thought DXB gave everyone 5th freedom rights. Even with that, I don't think anyone would want to play in that particular playground, especially if it were only a flight a day or so.



Quoting BA (Reply 26):
The United Arab Emirates and Lebanon are the only countries in the Middle East with a complete open skies policy which automatically grants 5th freedom rights to any carrier.

thanks for the information.....with EK gangstering all the routes out of DXB and NA citizens to much of a scared/paranoid scardy whimps, I guess EK will just take over the NA-DXB-planet route..........
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EK156
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:32 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):
Think about it. Given the unfortunate presence of radical terrorists in the Middle East who hate any and all things American, then American carriers might as well paint a big target on their aircraft should they decide to fly to that region. Insurance costs and common sense will keep American airlines away from the region for years to come.

I am sorry but your statement reeks with ignorance!!!! If you are talking about Iraq, Iran and maybe Saudi Arabia then these are only 3 countries amongst many many other countries in the Middle East who do not expose any threat to American Airlines!!! Why the hell is Boeing opening offices left right and center in the Middle East and concentrating all it's power on selling Aircrafts in the region? Hell they are also trying to sell to Iran!!!!

DL's decision was purely commercial. I am sure they will fly to the region again. Especially Dubai. Yesterday Virgin Atlantic started flying to Dubai, as well as Aer Lingus. Dubai alone has 112 different International Airlines flying into it's hub. BA has 2 daily flights and is soon going to 3 daily, KLM as well has 2 daily flights. Airfrance as well as 11 weekly flights and others like Lufthansa, Swiss and many more serve Dubai.

After 9/11, the American Airlines were all in a tiff so they had to cancel alot of routes in order to get back on track. But once things go back into the Black, I am sure we will see American Airlines in the region again!!!
 
aircanada014
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:35 pm

Well if you asking for North America why is AC not mention in the first thread? I know AC will be flying there as soon as they get their 777s and 787s.
 
ttango
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:28 pm

Continental has seriously considered the EWR-DXB route before (around 2002/2003). This was when they were actually looking to NOT accept their 18th 777 from Boeing (which just shows you how short-sighted major airline mgt is). So they were looking for places to fly 2 777s if they accepted the 18th 777 and DXB was on the short list. They did end up taking the aircraft and soon thereafter the Int'l market started to heat up and they reversed their strategy. Not long after they had plenty of places they wanted to use their 777s before DXB.
 
bahadir
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:38 pm

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 5):
Think about it. Given the unfortunate presence of radical terrorists in the Middle East who hate any and all things American, then American carriers might as well paint a big target on their aircraft should they decide to fly to that region. Insurance costs and common sense will keep American airlines away from the region for years to come.

Ignorance of Americans about Dubai amazes me. That might be the major reason why there are no American carriers serving the market. The closest second reason is the level of service. Can any American carrier compete with Emirates on the level of service? I don't think so..
Also the original poster got the great circle distance for the flight. Most likely this route will be flown in an unconventional way with some deviations such as flying a bit more southernly route.
The hot environment in DXB makes the non stop with the current fleets of US airliners a much harder return flight too. A 747-400 can handle it but both UA and NW are really short of this aircraft.

[Edited 2006-03-29 15:43:34]
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jacobin777
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
After 9/11, the American Airlines were all in a tiff so they had to cancel alot of routes in order to get back on track. But once things go back into the Black, I am sure we will see American Airlines in the region again!!!



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 30):
NA citizens to much of a scared/paranoid scardy whimps,

 checkmark 

Quoting Ttango (Reply 33):
Continental has seriously considered the EWR-DXB route before (around 2002/2003). This was when they were actually looking to NOT accept their 18th 777 from Boeing (which just shows you how short-sighted major airline mgt is). So they were looking for places to fly 2 777s if they accepted the 18th 777 and DXB was on the short list. They did end up taking the aircraft and soon thereafter the Int'l market started to heat up and they reversed their strategy. Not long after they had plenty of places they wanted to use their 777s before DXB.

I think CO would do well on their own...I don't know how that would affect their codesharing with EK however...

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 32):
Well if you asking for North America why is AC not mention in the first thread? I know AC will be flying there as soon as they get their 777s and 787s.

would that be a Canada-DXB-Canada route, or would they also go possibly to Pakistan (KHI)? I know AC mentioned they want to fly to Pakistan also...
"Up the Irons!"
 
drinkstrolley
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 6):
Just about everybody flies there at least daily

Everybody?
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:21 am

Would CO ever consider flying this route? EWR-DXB or IAH-DXB on a daily basis? I know they still have some 772ER's on order to make that route a possibility in the future.
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desertjets
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:35 am

W/ DXB granting 5th freedom rights to all carriers would it be possible for an American airline to operate a US-DXB-India flight w/o any restrictions?

Given the relatively limited longhaul fleets, and financial constraints of most US carriers at this point there seem to be bigger fish to fry, so to speak, when it comes to long hauls beyond Europe. China, India, and certain secondary european markets all seem to have a much higher priority than Dubai.
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airxliban
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 34):
The hot environment in DXB makes the non stop with the current fleets of US airliners a much harder return flight too. A 747-400 can handle it but both UA and NW are really short of this aircraft.

Actually I was under the impression that the DXB-JFK routing had proven troublesome even for the 772ER. IIRC MH was operating DXB-EWR with the 772ER at some point and faced some payload restrictions. Can someone in the know please comment on this? If the 772ER can't do it with full payload then I don't think the 744 would be able to either.

Which begs the question, how can the 77W do it? I thought that the 77W has the same range as the 772ER.
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DLPMMM
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:47 am

There is very little reason for a North American carrier to fly to Dubai. Dubai's location is close to ideal for a hub between Europe and Asia. N.A. airlines fly to asia via the pacific or polar routes, so the middle east is not "on the way". Emirates has done for Dubai what SQ did for Singapore.

There is not enough O+D traffic between the USA and Dubai to support a N.A. carrier in addition to the EK flights, where EK has the advantage of onward connections from DBX.

American safety perceptions would only be applicable to the extent of their impact on O+D pax numbers.

Cheers
 
ttango
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 37):

Well....they have considered it before. Read reply 33.
 
tzadik
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:36 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 7):
CO does two daily flights to TLV...

rolling into Tel Aviv is vastly different then heading deep into the middle east. I can't imagine what routes would be taken... I certainly don't see an american bird flying over syria, iraq, and saudia arabia.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 42):
rolling into Tel Aviv is vastly different then heading deep into the middle east. I can't imagine what routes would be taken... I certainly don't see an american bird flying over syria, iraq, and saudia arabia.

I have been in American commercial aircraft overflying Iran and Iraq before. Flights from the USA to India that stop in Europe (such as DL via CDG and FRA to BOM, DEL, and MAA). I don't remember if we went over a corner of Syria on any of the flights.
 
EurostarVA
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting EK156 (Reply 31):
I am sure we will see American Airlines in the region again!!!

I'm sorry but you are either disconnected from the reality of American interests in the Gulf or you seem to base your opinion solely on the fact that no anti-american attacks have taken place in the UAE just yet.

I'm sure you're aware of the level of security American interests enjoy in the region (embassies, consulates, military interests, etc.). Even in Dubai, we will both agree that an anti-American attack by Al Qaeda or other terrorist networks is not inconceivable.

9/11 happened less than 5 years ago......and it seems a lot of American carriers don't want to take any risks just yet (don't forget their insurance costs).
If there is a will, there is a way
 
MarkATL
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:16 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Thread starter):
Think about it. Given the unfortunate presence of radical terrorists in the Middle East who hate any and all things American, then American carriers might as well paint a big target on their aircraft should they decide to fly to that region.

The region does have some trouble spots but Dubai is by no means one of them. I would think the Philipines or Columbia would be far more dangerous than the UAE. US carriers have flown to the middle east in the past and continue to do so. NW and DL regularly overfly the regeion every day enroute to India everyday. I would think it is more of a business decission as EK and most of the european carriers have got a much better foothold in the market. Not to mention that most of the reasons people go to Dubai for, Americans/Canadians do closer to home.
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Skyguy
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:19 am

The US airlines are in the doldrums, they want to fly to new cities and on new routes but don't have that much spare capacity on their long haul aircraft to deploy on new new international routes like DXB. Launching a new destination incurrs a lot of cash expenditure (hiring local staff, offices, equipment, marketing campaign etc.) in the short term, and given the quarterly numbers that airlines have to meet for Wall St. they are averse to getting into anything where gains are not assured in the short-term. AA has not had any recent deliveries of new 777's, their choice work-horse for intercontinental routes, and introducing new destinations like Shanghai and New Delhi means careful juggling of schedules and utilization of existing aircraft. Unless US airlines are able to obtain extra capacity through aircraft availability and are willing to invest in launch efforts for destinations like DXB, I do not foresee any brand new destinations coming online soon except for re-establishing routes/destinations previously serviced.

Right now the airlines are going for low hanging fruit: fly to those destinations where there is guaranteed traffic and robust demand (China, India, Europe) and other destinations can wait till the airlines coffers fill-up and become more healthy.
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behramjee
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:27 am

DXB-JFK sees good loads for EK in J class but very low yielding in Y class. The route breaks even due to the massive yield on cargo gained as the cargo belly on their A 345s are always 100% sold out!

DXB-JFK sees quite a bit of O&D traffic as well with a fair mix of corporate and leisure pax.

Yes largely the traffic to DXB on EK is 6th freedom transitting traffic to East Africa, Arabia, India, Pakistan, CMB, DAC, BKK, KUL, CGK and SIN but that doesnt mean that the North American carriers cant make money out of there.

Lets examine Aer Lingus's new flights to DXB from DUB nonstop thrice a week on the A 330-200 :

a) Around 25-30% I bet would be O&D at the most where as the majority would be feeder traffic generated from EI's USA flights + UK.

b) EI has also struck an interline agreement with EK to carry their pax to BKK, HKG, India and SIN from DXB to help further increase loads on their DXB-DUB-DXB flight.

Therefore with the right mix of 6th freedom + O&D traffic demand levels, North American carriers can prosper as well with 4 weekly nonstop flights with a 300 seater aircraft to DXB from their respective hubs. From DXB, they can interline with IC/AI to India, ED/PIA to Pakistan, many Arab airlines flying to THR, BEY, JED such as IR/MEA/EK/SV.

Yes Air Canada has DXB high on its agenda once the B 777s and B 787s arrive into its fleet...but nothing is confirmed 100%. You can bet that from DXB, they would interline with EK to DAC/PAKISTAN and regional cities.
 
BA
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 32):
Well if you asking for North America why is AC not mention in the first thread? I know AC will be flying there as soon as they get their 777s and 787s.

AC has quite a few Middle East destinations in mind including CAI, BEY, THR, and DXB.

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 38):
W/ DXB granting 5th freedom rights to all carriers would it be possible for an American airline to operate a US-DXB-India flight w/o any restrictions?

Yes.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 40):
There is not enough O+D traffic between the USA and Dubai to support a N.A. carrier in addition to the EK flights, where EK has the advantage of onward connections from DBX.

I agree with you. DXB is not yet a popular tourist destination for Americans. It's primarily a tourist destination for Arabs, Europeans, and Asians which is why routes throughout the Arab world, Europe, and the Far East operate with a high level of capacity.

In the future perhaps, when American perceptions of the Middle East in general do change, then we will see American tourists coming to Dubai in large numbers.

At the same time, tourists flock to Dubai because of the resorts and the shopping.

Dubai is quite a far destination for most Americans to travel to simply to relax in resorts and shop.

Business traffic between the US and Dubai is not high enough to support flights. Business traffic related to oil is in Abu Dhabi and not Dubai.

Egypt is still one of the main destinations for American tourists despite some attacks in the past. The reason, because of the pyramids and other fascinating archaeological sites.

I was in Cairo in December and I saw plenty of tour groups, all Americans.

Keep in mind also that Dubai is far from being a "big city" despite the many skyscrapers under construction.

It's urban population is only 1.5 million.

The Middle East's two largest cities are Cairo, at 16 million (largest city on the African continent) and Tehran at 11 million.

If North American airlines are looking into catering large ethnic markets, then I think North Americans airlines would be interested in routes such as Cairo, Beirut, perhaps Amman, Baghdad if the country stabilizes, and Tehran if US/Iran relations are one day re-established.

These are routes that could be quite profitable.

Air Canada announced YUL-BEY in March 2003 to cater the large Lebanese population in Montreal. Unfortunately they were blocked from operating the route last minute, though they still have ambitions to launch the route in the near future.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Why No N. American Carrier To DXB?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting BA (Reply 48):
In the future perhaps, when American perceptions of the Middle East in general do change, then we will see American tourists coming to Dubai in large numbers.

I doubt this projection on your part. The reason is explained by you in your own words:

Quoting BA (Reply 48):
Dubai is quite a far destination for most Americans to travel to simply to relax in resorts and shop.

And the prices for Americans with respect to shopping are higher than many closer destinations in the Carribean, S. America....

This is not to say that Dubai will go bankrupt or will not be a success, but that the North American Airlines will never have substantial flights to DBX, if any at all. There is simply not enough O+D (and with a 1.5 MM population and no significant tourist draw from USA residents, there is not likely to be in the future.) USA airlines can fly directly to those destinations with O+D markets without interlining with EK and losing the incremental fare difference.

There is ample opportunity for Dubai to be successful by being at the crossroads of Europe and Asia. They do not require a large North American market to prosper.

The initial question could be turned around to "Why don't any Middle Eastern based airlines fly to Atlanta?, the biggest airport in the world!"

Answer: Because of very low O+D (even though ATL has a much larger population than Dubai).