FCKC
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Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:15 am

Aeroflot meeting board on March 30th , will probably bring an end to the long waited A350/787 decision , with the announcement of the winner.
Also we will hear the announcement of a 30 RRJs and 7 A321s order.

http://fr.rian.ru/business/20060328/44912339.html
 
airtran737
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:20 am

I am inclined to believe that Boeing is going to win this order. One of the main sticking points was whether Boeing could get Aeroflot some MD-11's for their cargo division, and last week they were ale to do that. Still, this industry is finicky and anything can happen.
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slz396
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:36 am

This is a purely political order, so whoever wins it, will take the money but not the laurel crown.

Anyway, word has it the order will be split out evenly...
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:45 am

... which wouldn't be a surprise and probably the best the can do from a political point of view.
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LY777
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:00 am

I think the Airbus will win this order
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aa1818
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:40 am

Somehow I think Airbus will win this, but I am inclined to believe the 787 is more suitable than the A350 given that Aeroflot returned the 777 as it was too big. Given the closeness in size of the A350 and 777 as opposed to the slightly smaller 787, I think Boeing should win this. Political antics included- I predict an Airbus win!

AA1818
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ca2ohHP
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:51 am

It won't even matter once it's announced, the Russians will change their minds 3 more times after that even.
 
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 5):
...but I am inclined to believe the 787 is more suitable than the A350 given that Aeroflot returned the 777 as it was too big. Given the closeness in size of the A350 and 777 as opposed to the slightly smaller 787...

I keep reading this. But the A350 comes in two sizes. Only the larger A359 is the size of a 777-200ER. The A358 is effectively the size of an A330-200.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:04 am

I have always felt that politics would prevail in the decision and that, everything else being equal, the A350 would win. However, the MD11 deal is a "wild card" and could result in a split order. I would be stunned if Boeing won this outright. Prediction: A350.
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startknob
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursd

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:14 am

Could somebody please wake me up if and when there is a non vapour fixed, inked and signed final order? Sorry, nothing against Aeroflot or Russia, but this story takes waaaaayyyyyy too long getting boring (not Boeing  Wink).

Regards,

Startknob
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FCKC
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:23 am

Having in mind Russia declined to become a risk partner in the A350 programm , the latter has no more advantage over the 787.
Despite they returned their T7s as they were too big for them , is not an indication they will turn to the smaller 787.
Right these T7s were too big for them , BUT in 2006.
The planes they will order this year being delivered in 2010 , and not before ,surely with the growth all airlines experience all over the world , a size T7 capable aircraft would become not big at all in 2010.In this case the A359 is the perfect machine , as probably the 787-10 could be , but the latter being not delivered before 2012 , it is out of the game.
OF COURSE this is a HIGHLY political order , as probably Russians are 50-50 with Americans and European.
However i do not think this will be a split order.I guess one manufacturer will win , and in this case i predict a Boeing victory , thus Aeroflot will be a Boeing long haul fleet , and an Airbus short-medium fleet , and Americans and European will both be represented in their fleet.
Only my though.
 
airA380
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 2):
This is a purely political order, so whoever wins it, will take the money but not the laurel crown

Russia is more close to Europe then usa ....since we buy their gas(for Americans only: it is not a type of liquid you put in your car, it is gas used for cooking Smile)
I have sixth sense and it tells me Airbus won the order provided the decision is purely political!!!
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RedChili
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:23 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 5):
given that Aeroflot returned the 777 as it was too big



Quoting FCKC (Reply 10):
Despite they returned their T7s as they were too big for them

Why do people have to repeat this a.net myth the whole time? For the umpteenth time: The B772 was not too big for Aeroflot; it was simply too expensive to operate a fleet of only two B772s. That was the sole reason why they got rid of it.

If anything, Aeroflot really needs a lot of bigger airplanes. No matter where the order goes, I expect that the largest frame (A359 or B787-10) will be included in their plans.
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Hamlet69
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:47 pm

Quoting FCKC (Reply 10):
The planes they will order this year being delivered in 2010 , and not before ,surely with the growth all airlines experience all over the world , a size T7 capable aircraft would become not big at all in 2010.In this case the A359 is the perfect machine , as probably the 787-10 could be , but the latter being not delivered before 2012 , it is out of the game.

But the A350-900 has now been pushed back to 2011, so where does that leave the order?


Regards,

Hamlet69
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:52 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 13):
But the A350-900 has now been pushed back to 2011, so where does that leave the order?

Probably with both manufacturers offering some sort of interim lift. We've already seen it at Finnair where they are going to use a mixture of used and new A340s to tide them over before receiving their A350s.
 
FCKC
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:28 am

If they want A350-900s or 787-10s , so not to get the planes before 2011 or 2012 , the most appropriate interim choice will be the A330s.
If they chose 787-10 , probably Boeing will help them (as they did with the MD11Fs) to get second hand 767-300s , which is an outdated plane , they must keep around 6-7 years.Or perhaps they will do as Vietnam Al is doing , trying to find second hand A330s , but it's a hard challenge to get such planes , as very few are on the market.
 
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting AirA380 (Reply 11):
(for Americans only: it is not a type of liquid you put in your car, it is gas used for cooking )

 wink 
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cuprita
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:06 am

My money is this battle is for Boeing.....
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JAL
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:09 am

I think Boeing will win this order but we have to wait and see.
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting RedChili (Reply 12):
Why do people have to repeat this a.net myth the whole time? For the umpteenth time: The B772 was not too big for Aeroflot; it was simply too expensive to operate a fleet of only two B772s. That was the sole reason why they got rid of it.

Not only. You are right that it was expensive, BUT, it was too big for them as well. I remember flying the SU's T7s constantly and unless it was peak periods during teh summer, the a/c were always really empty. People seated in the middle section would often have teh entire 5 seat segment to themselves. And I read an interview, either online or in their in-flight magazine that it was indeed to big for them to handle. Obviously having only two of the type is another MAJOR issue as well.

Aeroflot777
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 15):
If they want A350-900s or 787-10s , so not to get the planes before 2011 or 2012 , the most appropriate interim choice will be the A330s.
If they chose 787-10 , probably Boeing will help them (as they did with the MD11Fs) to get second hand 767-300s , which is an outdated plane , they must keep around 6-7 years.Or perhaps they will do as Vietnam Al is doing , trying to find second hand A330s , but it's a hard challenge to get such planes , as very few are on the market.

767 is hardly an "outdated plane" - especially when its economics are comparable to A330. It's seating configuration is optimal, and with Boeing's constant updating, many 767s are very modern.

My money is on Boeing, only because Russia turned down a risk sharing partnership on A350 - that doesn't lend confidence.

Does anyone remember when Aeroflot used to buy Russian planes?

If they don't, who is?
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DAYflyer
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:21 am

Well, whoever won it (I think Airbus) there will be profits to be made going forward as the Russian economy improves.
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:30 am

The MD-11 purchase was key, in my way of thinking. It's very likely that Boeing has won this order.

Regards,
Sal
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B797
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:40 am

787 will be the choice. A350 is a jet that has not been specifically designed. Its changing almost everyday! I give this to boeing.
 
Josh12815
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting LY777 (Reply 4):
I think the Airbus will win this order

LOL- Why would you say that? Because your from France? That would be like us americans saying Boeing is going to win this (which is more then likely.)

WOW...
 
PlaneGuy27
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:32 am

Well this press release just came out showing SU will get 30-35 A320 family aircraft - maybe this means that Boeing will win the widebody race.

Aeroflot plans to buy 30-35 A-320s in 2008-15
Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:44 PM ET



MOSCOW, March 29 (Reuters) - Russian airline Aeroflot plans to buy 30 to 35 Airbus A-320s between 2008 and 2015, the company's deputy general director Lev Koshlyakov told Reuters on Wednesday.

The A-320s will replace Tupolev Tu-154Ms. It was not clear whether they would be new or second-hand.

The decision comes ahead of the result of a $3 billion tender for 22 passenger aircraft, with Boeing's latest B-787 "Dreamliner" passenger jet competing with Airbus's A-350 aircraft.

Both Boeing and Airbus have declined to disclose the details of their bids. Aeroflot is expected to announce the winner of the tender by the end of this month.
 
OlegShv
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:50 am

I really hope that Boeing will take the widebody order with 787. It will be really boring to see only A-planes in SVO.
 
aa1818
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:56 am

RedChili, I acknowledge that I wasn't totally right, but I remember reading from multiple sources and from reliable members on this forum that the 777 could not be filled and oeprated profitably all year round. It was fully utilized at peak seasonal periods but wasn't used so all year round.

With or without politics, Aeroflot has a tough decision. Boeing perhaps offers flexibility with the Dash-8 but that may be too small to even be considered so when pitting the Dash 9 and proposed Dash 10 against the A358/9 your dealing with "six of one, half a dozen of the other" situation.

Add politics to the equation and it's further complicated. EU/ Petro-chemical relationship vs large trading parter/ strong ally across the atlantic.

I am going to recall my guess on this and say- TOO CLOSE TO CALL!!!!

AA1818
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airA380
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting B797 (Reply 23):
A350 is a jet that has not been specifically designed. Its changing almost everyday! I give this to boeing.

change for good is good!!! Smile
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ual747-600
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:41 am

I think Boeing will get the widebody 787 order. They seem to already be softening the PR blow for Airbus by announcing the A320 family order.

My .02 worth

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airA380
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RE: Aeroflot A350/787 Choice : Announced On Thursday?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Ual747-600 (Reply 29):
I think Boeing will get the widebody 787 order. They seem to already be softening the PR blow for Airbus by announcing the A320 family order.

"its not over untilt the fat lady sings"...cross the pond and you will find this expression very usefull...
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