Georgetown
Topic Author
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:50 pm

RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:08 am

Hey all,

I was walking along the waterfront in Georgetown today around noon and noticed an RJ departing from DCA up the Potomac with its landing gear down (long after it should have been retracted). As it was well past Rosslyn, I couldn't tell if it was an ERJ or CRJ, nor the airline. There's no way that its gear should have still been down at that point unless something was wrong. Did anyone else see this or hear anything about it? Thanks!
Let's go Hoyas!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:15 am

Landing gear is sometimes left extended for a period of time, but it's much more common to see that with longhaul widebodies than it is for a RJ.

Another possibility, somewhat remote, is that the aircraft was a gear down maintenance ferry, going from DCA to the airline's facility...
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:39 am

I once watched one of our B1900Ds depart MKE and climb out of sight (well over 5000') with its gear down, this was a revenue flight...crew forgot to raise the gear..oopps...
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:46 am

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 1):
but it's much more common to see that with longhaul widebodies than it is for a RJ.

I saw a 747 depart JFK yesterday and it didn't bring up its gear all the way until it was out of sight..then I am hoping it retracted its gear!
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
KELPkid
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:49 am

Quoting Skyexramper (Reply 2):
I once watched one of our B1900Ds depart MKE and climb out of sight (well over 5000') with its gear down, this was a revenue flight...crew forgot to raise the gear..oopps...

Should be readily apparent when they trim out for cruise and can't reach the correct indicated airspeed...
 Wink
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avconsultant
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:49 am

I now the CRJ has a problem if the towbar is not disconnected properly. The nose gear will not retract. Then agian, it could have been a "gear-down" maintenance ferry.
 
jsposaune
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:15 am

I suppose it could also have been a "go-around". (missed approach) In that airspace, I could see how a crew could be distracted and forget the gear until a bit later.
There are no stupid questions....only stupid people!!!
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:34 am

The BTMS may have been MEL'd, requiring the gear to be left down for a bit before retraction to ensure cool brakes.
 
L1329II
Posts: 285
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:11 pm

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 5):
I now the CRJ has a problem if the towbar is not disconnected properly. The nose gear will not retract

This has to do with not removing the nose gear pin. This particular pin is about 1/4 in diameter and about 8" long.

Having worked at an FBO I saw a VERY embarrassed CL-600 pilot taxi back to the ramp after getting a call from the tower that another A/C noticed the red remove before flight flag flapping in the wind.
"By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?"
 
erjdrvr
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:20 am

RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:05 pm

sometimes we leave the gear down when the brakes are hot, once they cool the gear is retracted. we don't like hot things near the fuel tanks. why do you guys always asume we are screwing up  Smile

erj 170 Capt. Shuttle America
 
MrMcCoy
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting Erjdrvr (Reply 9):
why do you guys always asume we are screwing up

Welcome to a.net.. It's one of the unfortunate sides of a forum like this, but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.  Smile
It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
 
2H4
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:15 pm




Quoting Erjdrvr (Reply 9):
why do you guys always asume we are screwing up

Just taking the FAA's lead....  Wink




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
erjdrvr
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:24 pm

and here to help, right?
 
2H4
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:28 pm




Quoting Erjdrvr (Reply 12):
and here to help, right?

Of course! Fast, friendly, streamlined efficiency...

Anyway, welcome to a.net, and thanks for bringing some flight deck insight to the forums.  Smile




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
Georgetown
Topic Author
Posts: 280
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:56 pm

I'll take hot brakes as an answer....I didn't even consider a screw up as an option, I'd trust a pilot more than a brain surgeon as his/her life is as much on the line as mine is!
Let's go Hoyas!
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 4):
Should be readily apparent when they trim out for cruise and can't reach the correct indicated airspeed...

Damn it F/O why aren't we excelerating past 120kts...what the heck! Since when did the 1900 fly like a J31.  airplane   Silly

[Edited 2006-03-30 16:37:33]
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
lapper
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 7):
The BTMS may have been MEL'd

Can I get a translation on that please?
 
Goldenshield
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:52 am

Quoting Lapper (Reply 16):
Can I get a translation on that please?

Brake Tempurature Monitoring System.

The MEL (A deferred maintainance item per the Minimum Equipment List) in question requires that the landing gear be left in the down position for 10 minutes after departure—regardless of time on the ground— and the aircraft must be able to fly in clear air (no visible moisture, to prevent ice build up) in order to facilitate the proper cooling of the braking elements on the wheels prior to being retracted into the wheel well. This is done due to the possibility of the wheels catching fire due to overheating. If the BTMS is inoperative, then the crew would have no way of knowing that the wheels are indeed too hot to retract into the wheel well, and this alternate procedure is applied to meet the requirements of that MEL.
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User avatar
HAWK21M
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:54 am

I'd vouch for Hot brakes too.Cooling using Relative Wind  Smile
regds
MEL
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FlyDeltaJets
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting L1329II (Reply 8):
This has to do with not removing the nose gear pin. This particular pin is about 1/4 in diameter and about 8" long.

I only can speak for Delta COnnection, and we don't use steering bypass pins for CRJ's they disconnect something in the back (I don't know what because I have never done it before) and when pushback is finished they reconnect it.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
lapper
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:27 am

Thanks Goldenshield. Does that mean then on a wet day, the plane has to be taken above the clouds before the landing gear can be retracted?
 
lapper
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:33 am

Thanks Goldenshield. Does that mean then on a wet day, the plane has to be taken above the clouds before the landing gear can be retracted?
 
apodino
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting Lapper (Reply 21):
Thanks Goldenshield. Does that mean then on a wet day, the plane has to be taken above the clouds before the landing gear can be retracted?

No, what it means is on a wet day the plane is parked until the problem is fixed.



Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 7):
The BTMS may have been MEL'd, requiring the gear to be left down for a bit before retraction to ensure cool brakes.

If it was from DCA there was a good chance it was a ZW plane. IIRC, we had one plane with the main landing gear bay overheat mel, which also requires the gear to be down for ten minutes after takeoff.
 
L1329II
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:52 am

RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 19):
I only can speak for Delta COnnection, and we don't use steering bypass pins for CRJ's they disconnect something in the back (I don't know what because I have never done it before) and when pushback is finished they reconnect it.

Interesting. Of course I was referring to the corporate version of the CL-600. 600, 601, 604 etc.

Thanks for the info.
"By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?"
 
Goldenshield
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:01 am

After reviewing the MEL's, the Gear bay overheat is the most likely cause, and not the BTMS (I never said that it was in my originaly post. I was just clarifying.) If GBOH and BTMS are inop, then the flight must be flown gear down the whole flight, which means a slower airspeed and low altidude, and there are few carriers that I know of willing to provide that high of a fuel burn to get the customers to their destination.
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A10WARTHOG
Posts: 200
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 19):
only can speak for Delta COnnection, and we don't use steering bypass pins for CRJ's they disconnect something in the back (I don't know what because I have never done it before) and when pushback is finished they reconnect it.

On the CRJ's the torque links are disconnected. On ERJ's there is a switch that can be used on the outside of the aircraft to disable the steering or you can pull the E20 CB.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: RJ Landing Gear Not Retracted At DCA Today?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 11):
Just taking the FAA's lead....

You want to be leading the FAA?  Smile mmmm
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.

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