BDKLEZ
Topic Author
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Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:56 am

Today, a brand new organisation announced with much gusto, and to the astonishment of the world, what it deems to be "a worthwhile contender in future success of mass air transport".

The prototype craft pictured below, utilizes the fundamental principles and benefits of traditional aircraft, airships and hovercroft, and is intended to operate with less than 2 metres ground clearance but at up to speeds to up to 500 kts.

Low Cost operators in Europe have given the development a cautious welcome, in order to fulfill long term strategies which they say "may indeed lead to affordable trans-atlantic crossings for the masses, should the demand be justified through currently ongoing research".




Source: wancare.com
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
CruzinAltitude
Posts: 408
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:13 am

Hey, we are still 2 days away from April Fools Day!!!!
 
airwave
Posts: 1105
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:13 am

Well, so much for the 20 minute turn...

Airwave  eyebrow 
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
 
centrair
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:14 am

Heard a thing about this or something similar to it on the BBC or PRI or something like that. They said it would be like a cruise liner for the sky. The person from the company that is building these things was hoping that these would allow people to travel from LA to NYC in a leisurely yet stylish manner with special ports of call across the country.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
atmx2000
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:23 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 3):
They said it would be like a cruise liner for the sky.

Well at least you won't have to worry about pirates.  Smile
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
airwave
Posts: 1105
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 4):

Well at least you won't have to worry about pirates. Smile

Clearly you've never heard of the mighty Don Karnage and his ruthless band of air pirates or their floating fortress, the Iron Vulture.  wink 

Airwave  eyebrow 
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:16 am

No. This is supposed to be the competitor to the nine-decker Airbus which came out about a month ago. That would be a heck of a contest! Dare to forecast how many posts?
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 850
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:23 am

Actually I was reading about airships and in fact they use a lot less fuel than planes so they might be a good alternative, a sort of cross between a cruise ship and a plane. They are slower but you could have your own cabin, restaurants, etc. The view must be pretty amazing as well. The German airships used to fly non stop between Frankfurt and New York/Rio long before planes could do that. After the Hindenburg disaster they were all scrapped, but the technology was there long ago, in the 1940s. Now with helium rather than hydrogen they wouldn't be so dangerous. I think it's something that's been neglected and the world has been missing out on. Perhaps they would also be useful for cargo. Also, I've heard about ideas for military uses (shipping tanks, etc.). Also, they don't need airports as they can take off more or less vertically.
 
rj777
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:26 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 4):
Well at least you won't have to worry about pirates.

You have GOT to be kidding me! Normally, I tend to be very accepting of new aircraft, but the age of the Zepplin died with the Hindenberg!
 
zvezda
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting Peterinlisbon (Reply 7):
Perhaps they would also be useful for cargo.

Shipping would be much less expensive and nearly as fast.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:26 pm

Quoting RJ777 (Reply 8):
You have GOT to be kidding me! Normally, I tend to be very accepting of new aircraft, but the age of the Zepplin died with the Hindenberg!

Well, I suppose there would be a danger from SAM, with air ships being slow moving vehicles.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 9):

Shipping would be much less expensive and nearly as fast.

Well not after we run out of easily extractable helium, or better recycle He currently being used. Helium is not a renewable resource given that it escapes our atmosphere.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:38 pm

It says 500 knots. That's not very slow.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:43 pm

What's up with the jetways in that pic???

...And I hope you don't actually believe that's possible, but judging by some of the responses in this thread  footinmouth 
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
gunsontheroof
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:50 pm

Quoting Airwave (Reply 5):
Clearly you've never heard of the mighty Don Karnage and his ruthless band of air pirates or their floating fortress, the Iron Vulture.

I was thinking the same thing right before I read your reply!
 
airwave
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:20 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 13):
Quoting Airwave (Reply 5):
Clearly you've never heard of the mighty Don Karnage and his ruthless band of air pirates or their floating fortress, the Iron Vulture.

I was thinking the same thing right before I read your reply!

Lol, well then, this is just for you! Enjoy! Big grin





Airwave  eyebrow 
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:58 pm

I heard they an evac test on that Bertha jet in 70 seconds. They beat the whalejet.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
centrair
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 10):
Well not after we run out of easily extractable helium

I think I would be having far too much fun sucking it up to do Chipmunk imitations.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
airwave
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:20 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 16):
I think I would be having far too much fun sucking it up to do Chipmunk imitations.

Or Munchkins..."Weee represent, the Lollipop Kiiids, the Lollipop Kiids, the Lollipop Kiids..."

Yeah, I really gotta rein it in...  Yeah sure

Airwave  eyebrow 
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
 
traveler_7
Posts: 448
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:06 pm

Actually this new competitor also have to compete with this

http://www.aerosml.com/Aeroscraft%20Info.asp
 
astuteman
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:10 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
It says 500 knots. That's not very slow.

Especially only 2m off the ground !!!!!!!!

It'll never catch on though. Point-to-Point is the future, don't you know.......
 
leothedog
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:01 pm

*Standing in line to buy a ticket*
I've got things to see and people to do.
 
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PM
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:11 pm

Have GE got exclusivity yet...?  Sad
 
malb777
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:34 pm

looks like airbus have finally realised that the A380 is going to be a white elephant , so they have introduced a nice grey one aswell
thank god i was not born a bird. this type of flying is much better
 
ikramerica
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:40 pm

Quoting Airwave (Reply 17):
Airwave   

It's the lollipop guild, my friend. don't make be sick my union thugs on you. they'll bite your kneecaps off.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
DeltaWings
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:59 pm

yeah, 2m off the ground, great, so it's only useful for over water. You can't really call that flying, more or less just a fast boat.
Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
 
malb777
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:05 pm

looks like airbus have finally realised that the A380 is going to be a white elephant , so they have introduced a nice grey one aswell
thank god i was not born a bird. this type of flying is much better
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 460
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting BDKLEZ (Thread starter):
The prototype craft pictured below, utilizes the fundamental principles and benefits of traditional aircraft, airships and hovercroft, and is intended to operate with less than 2 metres ground clearance but at up to speeds to up to 500 kts.

Let's do some basic aerodynamics here:

2m off the ground --> ISA Temp. is 15� C

15� C --> speed of sound: ~620 kts

MN = 500/620 = ~ .81 Mach

Now can anyone please explain to me how you can get a gigantic blimp to go Mach 0.8 only 2 meters off the ground without

a) burning off fuel like the Concorde did

b) avoiding any obstacle larger than 2m while going that speed?


It would most definitly be fun to watch though...  Smile
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
dc10heaven
Posts: 53
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:16 am

I can just imagine in the year 2099, the future generation A.netters constantly starting new threads about NW retiring their fleet of airships.
 
SpeckSpot
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:16 am

Folks, take a look at this page. It must be referring to the same new idea since the picture is the same  Smile. It flies at 8000 feet (see inside the text writeup). I'm assuming the 2m is a reference to how low the body is on the ground when it is landed, but that is just my speculation. The other article definitely says 8000 feet altitude for flight.

Same blimp covered at Popular Science.

Fair use excerpt:

The craft would have a range of several thousand miles and, with an estimated top speed of 174 mph, could traverse the continental U.S. in about 18 hours. During the flight, passengers would peer at national landmarks just 8,000 feet below or, if they weren't captivated by the view, the cavernous interior would easily accommodate such amenities as luxury staterooms, restaurants, even a casino. (Quoting Popular Science)
 
JAL
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:21 am

That thing whatever that is looks ridiculous!
Work Hard But Play Harder
 
SpeckSpot
Posts: 53
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:32 am

The 2m is probably supposed to be 2km; certainly 8000ft = 2.438km is closer to 2km than to 3km or to 1km.

[Edited 2006-03-30 16:33:23]
 
rampkontroler
Posts: 694
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:52 am

Interesting that this comes out right after Dynalifter of Ohio initiated taxi tests on their 1/10th scale prototype of their heavy-lift airship. I don't think it's as whacked an idea as some of you seem to think...it has a lot of potential.

Check the site out below:

http://www.dynalifter.com/Dynalifter/Default.htm
 
787engineer
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:29 am

I think airships have a lot of potential. They use significantly less fuel, and can carry many more passengers, albeit a little slower. I think most people travelling overseas wouldn't mind an extra hour or two, especially if it's in much better comfort, and they are able to work/rest well onboard. In the end, its vulnerbility to small SAMs may put an end to this. . . 2km isn't all that high for a missle.
 
SWALoveField
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:47 am

It is no secret I love WN, but PLEASE tell me they won't have "open" seating on this thing. I don't want to stand in the "S" line.

Robb
Dallas, TX
 
gearup
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:19 am

Well, this thread seems to have attracted all the naysayers and wags from miles around! This is a fantastic idea and I hope it takes off (no pun intended). You could be looking at the future of commercial aviation. As someone has already said, there were giant airships in use on scheduled transatlantic air routes when most aircraft were fabric stretched over flimsy frames held togather with wire! I have often wondered what an R101 sized airship would be like made from modern materials, current engine technology, FBW etc. would be like. My view is that such a craft could revolutionise commercial aviation economics.

GU
I have no memory of this place.
 
KJFK31L
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:37 am

I think Jimmy Page and Robert Plant would be happy to see that some listened to them!

In all seriousness, I have always liked airships but nevertheless I am cautiously pessimistic.

Matt
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going.
 
hemispheres
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting Dc10heaven (Reply 27):
I can just imagine in the year 2099, the future generation A.netters constantly starting new threads about NW retiring their fleet of airships.

No, they will still be talking about thier DC-9's.
"I have to put in my two cents, but I only get a penny for my thoughts. - Someone is making money"
 
airwave
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:48 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 23):
It's the lollipop guild, my friend. don't make be sick my union thugs on you. they'll bite your kneecaps off.

Lol, alright, alright...so I haven't seen the movie in ages...

Airwave  eyebrow 
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
 
leothedog
Posts: 113
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting Hemispheres (Reply 36):
No, they will still be talking about thier DC-9's.

Laughed Out Loud at that one.
I've got things to see and people to do.
 
Oroka
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:07 am

They had a short thing about this on the Discovery Channel last week. They said they plan on having a scaled down version build by the end of next year. They also said that they would proably only do cargo first, and depending on how that went, passenger versions.

Just wait for one to be called Hindenburg II.
 
steeler83
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:24 am

Quoting Airwave (Reply 17):
Or Munchkins..."Weee represent, the Lollipop Kiiids, the Lollipop Kiids, the Lollipop Kiids..."

I thought it was the "Lollipop Guild..." oh well...

It would really be funny if this becomes the official means of travel for Led Zepplin!!! A whole new meaning to this oximoron Big grin
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
c172heavy
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:24 am

Brings to mind an article I read about 15 years ago about the WIG (wing in ground effect) concept the Russians were looking at. The aircraft resembled an An-124 with turbofans or turboprops mounted above the wings. Because it flew only a dozen or so feet above the surface, over-water was the only realistic routing. Never heard about it again.
"How's that working out for ya?....Bein' clever?"
 
phollingsworth
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting Peterinlisbon (Reply 7):
Now with helium rather than hydrogen they wouldn't be so dangerous.

A common misconception, hydrogen had little to nothing to do with the Hindenburg disaster. It would have happened even if the US had given Germany the helium. The primary cause of the accident was likely static electricity igniting the envelope of the airship. The problem was the envelope was effectively made of cotton doped with aluminum and other chemicals. It was essentially a very crude form of solid rocket fuel. While the hydrogen did burn in the accident, it did not cause any additional carnage as it burns upwards and away from the passengers and people on the ground.
 
QFA380
Posts: 2013
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 pm

RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:58 am

Where exactly is the pilot going to go? In those pics posted I did not see any little bit in the bottom for them. Or would this not need pilots?

This will be interesting to watch.
 
airA380
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 7:27 am

RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting BDKLEZ (Thread starter):
intended to operate with less than 2 metres ground clearance but at up to speeds to up to 500 kts.

In theory it may be possible but in practice it won't possible to go at the speed of 500Kts as earth is not perfectly flat as they once thought!!..it won't work on sea either as most waves are above 2m height. if the ship hits waves at 500Kts the whole thing will be like roller coaster....not an ideal place to drink tea!! Smile I love my tea on long flight

something similar to would be good idea for space travelling...I'm not planning to go to the moon.........
this no match for a380 nor 748.
I'm flying without wings!!!!!!!!
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting Dc10heaven (Reply 27):
I can just imagine in the year 2099, the future generation A.netters constantly starting new threads about NW retiring their fleet of airships.



Quoting Hemispheres (Reply 36):

No, they will still be talking about thier DC-9's.

ROTFLMAO at those comments  rotfl 

Either way, I read the same pop sci article and it looks pretty interesting. I'd fly it, better then this trans-continental WN flight I'm taking in 2 weeks  yuck 
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
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zeke
Posts: 10103
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RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:49 am

Not to be outdone by todays developments Boeings Randy has released the first picture of their 797.

Being enthusiastic about his new aircraft he said that the development of the 787 program lead to the development of a new project which has two 787 fuselages mounts on a new wing and a single engine.

This new aircraft will have the lowest seat mile cost and OEW of any aircraft in its class Randy said, saying it will be the first entirly paper aircraft.

Boeing pland to complete development this year with the aircraft being certified in Summer.

The new aircraft will have the lowest OEW in its class, have a TFSC 33% lower than the GEnx, cruise speed of 0.985 and a range of 13000 nm, with 540 passengers and reserves.


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a357/thezeke/e24a0714.jpg
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
GBan
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:10 pm

RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:33 am

Quoting RJ777 (Reply 8):
You have GOT to be kidding me! Normally, I tend to be very accepting of new aircraft, but the age of the Zepplin died with the Hindenberg!

They are flying again:

http://www.zeppelin-nt.com/pages/E/luftsch_u_zepp.htm
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 4):
Well at least you won't have to worry about pirates.

You should always worry about Pirates...I've seen that movie with Johnny Depp...they can't be trusted!!!
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
pilotman52
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 11:10 am

RE: Brand New Competitor For B748 & A380

Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:19 am

Are those two Sears towers in the background?

Pilotman52

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