stl1326
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:16 pm

I was wondering with the new runway coming online in April, what to expect like who is going to use it and what changes will we see? Has anyone gone through the C concourse? I know I read on Lambert's website and saw they are adding plasma screens throughout the airport and added two new shops in the C concourse. How is it looking? Has any heard anything on the routes that Trans States is dropping and the props move to C concourse? Any rumors of increased service?
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:40 pm

I am curious as well to the above questions and also was wondering if/when American will consolidate all ops to the C concourse by moving American Connection from the B concourse to the C Concourse.
 
Stratofortress
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:16 am

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:12 pm

Just been through it. There are improvements i.e. some new restaurants and shops. Also looked as if they had replaced a large portion of the carpet. Progress is eveident, but STL is still a long way from being a "nice" airport. It really is hard to sustain a large airport with MD-80s and regional tin cans. (No offense to any tin can drivers)

STL was already operating under capacity, I really dont know what they are going to do with the new runway except really piss off some Southwest captains (for the people that dont know, the newest runway is about as far as you can get from the Southwest terminal).
Forever New Frontiers
 
pilotpip
Posts: 2820
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:26 pm

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:15 pm

Southwest will just stick with the 30s. AA and the others will utilize 29 more. The class B airspace around STL changes effective April 14. Make sure you pilots update your charts(airspace busts, here we go...). The old ones will be good collectables.
DMI
 
LambertMan
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Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:35 pm

I talked to a WN pilot a couple years ago and he said they'd refuse to use the new runway, as noted by pilotpip.

The airport just needs a lot of work. The D concourse with the tumbleweed balls rolling around in front of it just doesn't look attractive. Then you have the end of C which could be reclassified as an airport waste area. It's just going to take a lot of work to make it a decent airport.

The improvements to the C concourse are definitely nice for the time being, but it just needs more. Installing skylights or somehow opening up the current concourses would go a real long way.
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:17 am

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:35 pm

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 4):
The D concourse with the tumbleweed balls rolling around in front of it just doesn't look attractive.

Some of those pics Alex took awhile back showed some tumbleweed balls rolling THRU Concourse "D" if I'm not mistaken... Big grin Maybe Dolliole could sub-lease some space in "D" for a Mausoleum to get some use out of the place..

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 4):
I talked to a WN pilot a couple years ago and he said they'd refuse to use the new runway, as noted by pilotpip

I was not aware a pilot could demand which runway was to be used, only if there was some sort of IFE which dictated use of a certain runway. I know those long taxi times are a sore spot for WN, but just how often will 29 be used in the first place, especially for landings? Does WN not have longer taxi times at DEN with their runway layout than any configuration STL can offer?
 
STLTower
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:45 pm

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:50 pm

Just walked the B,C and D concourses yesterday. C has two new stores accross from the gate 8, 10 and 12 area. A Budwiser store and some really REALLY fru fru pretty lady store that,,,,well,,,seemed to be attracting lots of the ladies  Smile.

Side note,,,every time I go down C the Brooks Brothers store is almost empty. Maybe I am there at the wrong times.

We have been told that the moving of all the Regions and Trans States operations from B to C is on some kind of hold for now.

The far east end of C seems to be going nowhere fast. The end gates on C are getting new concreat right now. D is as it has been. I noticed yesterday that Southwest no longer uses the last three gates on the western end of its concourse.

The new departure and arrival screens seem to be up everywhere in the councourses with the exception of E (and I dont know about A because I never get down there). There is also a new bank of screens going up in the bag claim area.

Now on to the new runway. We all just took our tests yesterday. Things like frequencies, wake turbulance, nav aids and taxi roots were covered. Then we were tested on the 4 basic flows it seems we will use.

East

Arrive 11 and 12L will be the primary flow, depart 12R with Taxi lane C going as an east taxi route and D as a west taxi route.

Arrive 11 and 12R while departing 12L.

West

Depart 29 and arrive 30L&R

When the weather gets low and SOIA to 30s is not usuable we will arrive 29 and 30R, depart 30L.

Pilots can request any runway for departure and Im sure we are not going to be taking GAs to 29 when we are flowing west and my guess is that SWA is Seldome goining to Want the Active (get it SWA,,,,,,Seldome Want the Active  Smile just a lame attempt at humor  Smile )

More and more I am looking forward to the opening. In some ways it will make things easier and in some areas it will be a little more of a challenge.

Has anyone noticed that the western edge of the new runway is visible from McKelvey Rd going northeast as you cross over I-70 and pass DePaul hospital. I live at Dorset and 270. Its going to be really cool to head over to Target on the Rock Road and see planes landing on the hill up above.
 
BHMNONREV
Posts: 1209
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:17 am

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:28 pm

Quoting STLTower (Reply 6):
More and more I am looking forward to the opening. In some ways it will make things easier and in some areas it will be a little more of a challenge.

Yeah, it's a shame STL no longer has those 1200+ daily ops that they used to see. With the new runway that would have been a sight..

Quoting STLTower (Reply 6):
Has anyone noticed that the western edge of the new runway is visible from McKelvey Rd going northeast as you cross over I-70 and pass DePaul hospital. I live at Dorset and 270. Its going to be really cool to head over to Target on the Rock Road and see planes landing on the hill up above.

Have not been back to the 'Loo in over two years, but I grew up in that area. Last time I was thru they were doing the new Natural Bridge/Lindbergh interchange. But yes, it will be impressive to see arrivals on 11 passing low over 270. So strange...
 
chase
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:02 pm

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:07 am

Can non-employees still get to the tumbleweed-y concourses? Or are they closed to the general public?
 
dispatchguy
Posts: 606
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:08 am

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:36 am

Yeah, anyone can get thru them - for how is anyone on the B/C side going to get to the SWA concourse?
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
Boeing Nut
Posts: 5078
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RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting CIDflyer (Reply 1):
I am curious as well to the above questions and also was wondering if/when American will consolidate all ops to the C concourse by moving American Connection from the B concourse to the C Concourse.

Last I heard, the move is still on for October. Not soon enough IMO. The rampers can be a pain in the a$$.

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 4):
I talked to a WN pilot a couple years ago and he said they'd refuse to use the new runway, as noted by pilotpip.

This is b.s. As ATCtower has stated, ATC will not use 11 for departures unless the situation warrants it. I.E. another runway is closed for what ever reason. For a 29 departure, the distance between 12L and 29 are not that much different. I realize that I the two runways I used are in opposite directions, but I never hear SW bitching about 12L over 12R or viceaversa.

Quoting STLTower (Reply 6):
The end gates on C are getting new concreat right now.

Scheduled to be finished in May.

Quoting Chase (Reply 8):
Can non-employees still get to the tumbleweed-y concourses? Or are they closed to the general public?

Any employee or ticketed passenger for AA or SW can get to D.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
stl1326
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting STLTower (Reply 6):
Side note,,,every time I go down C the Brooks Brothers store is almost empty. Maybe I am there at the wrong times.

On Lambert's webiste every month they have that column on what's going on in the airport and a couple of months ago they said that the Brooks Brothers at Lambert was one of their best stores. I could be wrong but I could have sworn I read that.

Quoting STLTower (Reply 6):
The new departure and arrival screens seem to be up everywhere in the councourses with the exception of E (and I dont know about A because I never get down there). There is also a new bank of screens going up in the bag claim area.

Do you know if they are in use yet? I can't wait to see the changes in the C concourse. I will be in the concourse in May on my way to San Diego. I haven't been in their since last summer. It will be interesting to see if there is any improvement at all since the last time I was there.
 
atrude777
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Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting STLTower (Reply 6):
The far east end of C seems to be going nowhere fast. The end gates on C are getting new concreat right now. D is as it has been. I noticed yesterday that Southwest no longer uses the last three gates on the western end of its concourse.

Southwest has not been using the Far West 20-24 as far back as July if I can recall. They are also not using E-2 and E-4 either. So, of the 12 gates SWA owns at the East Terminal, they are only using 7 of them. I would imagine due to the ctubacks we received from SWA.

Quoting STLTower (Reply 6):
my guess is that SWA is Seldome goining to Want the Active (get it SWA,,,,,,Seldome Want the Active Smile just a lame attempt at humor Smile )

hahaha  laughing 

Quoting Chase (Reply 8):
Can non-employees still get to the tumbleweed-y concourses? Or are they closed to the general public?



Quoting Chase (Reply 8):
Yeah, anyone can get thru them - for how is anyone on the B/C side going to get to the SWA concourse?



Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 10):

Any employee or ticketed passenger for AA or SW can get to D.

Yes, if you have a ticket or a boarding pass for Frontier Airlines, American Eagle, American Airlines, American Connection, Midwest Connect, Champion Air, USA3000, Ryan Intl, and Southwest Airlines you will have gate access to B, C, D and E Concourses.

Quoting Stl1326 (Reply 11):
Do you know if they are in use yet? I can't wait to see the changes in the C concourse. I will be in the concourse in May on my way to San Diego. I haven't been in their since last summer. It will be interesting to see if there is any improvement at all since the last time I was there.

As of March 19th (when I flew back home) they weren't in use.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
jmy007
Posts: 540
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RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:41 am

The end of C is a sorry, sorry site from it's heyday. I did see they put in the new deprature arrival screens down there when I walked through in FEB. For who, I don't know.

If there is any money left from W1W (I know they have talked about the 2nd phase of expantion) which I doubt, STL should tear down those concouse and make 1 long one, with less gates. Perhaps common use.

Though I don't think that will ever happen.
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
stl1326
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 13):
The end of C is a sorry, sorry site from it's heyday. I did see they put in the new deprature arrival screens down there when I walked through in FEB. For who, I don't know.

I would think they are for AA Connection. I think the end of the C is where the props will be moving eventually.
 
FlyBoy84
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 4:17 am

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:28 am

  Oh GOODY GUMDROPS...the runway's almost ready    

St. Louis promised world-class, but what we get instead borders on THIRD WORLD       What St. Louis needed was a better configured airport; rwy 11/29 does NOTHING to achieve that.

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 10):
This is b.s. As ATCtower has stated, ATC will not use 11 for departures unless the situation warrants it. I.E. another runway is closed for what ever reason. For a 29 departure, the distance between 12L and 29 are not that much different. I realize that I the two runways I used are in opposite directions, but I never hear SW bitching about 12L over 12R or viceaversa.

What I remember hearing is that WN and F9 didn't want to have to LAND on the new concrete heading WEST...which I really CAN'T BLAME them! It would be ridiculous to have to taxi that far at an airport like this one.

Quoting STLTower (Reply 6):
Arrive 11 and 12L will be the primary flow, depart 12R with Taxi lane C going as an east taxi route and D as a west taxi route.

I remember reading in OFFICIAL documents that taxiways C and D will not support two-way taxiing since gates on concourses A, B, and C abut the taxiing area. When planes push back taxiway C becomes a bottleneck. Things change, so PLEASE update me.

Quoting Jmy007 (Reply 13):
If there is any money left from W1W (I know they have talked about the 2nd phase of expantion) which I doubt, STL should tear down those concouse and make 1 long one, with less gates. Perhaps common use.

Though I don't think that will ever happen.

So glad to know that I'M not the only one who's though of this! OTOH, STL has other ideas. Take a look at this link and go to page 11!

http://www.tisp.org/files/isbe2004/panel_2b/griggs.pdf

True to St. Louis, the proposal clings hopelessly to the old building    Notice the proposed International Terminal building next to the truncated A Concourse housing WIDEBODIES  ...YOU know...for those flights to LHR, MOSKVA, and Tokyo rotfl 

Instead, what they COULD do is leave the original Main Terminal and strip all the concourses off. Demolish the East Terminal as well. Build a concourse for WN where that international building is (notice that it's dangerously close to the RPZ). Then build the midfield concourse assigning one half of the gates to AA on the east end with the western half of the gates going to the other carriers. Naturally, RWY 6/24 would be decommissioned from use as a runway. And STL does NOT need well over 100 gates.

At least with what I'm saying, they could make maximum use of the airfield. Although it STILL would not be WORLD-CLASS.

But THIS is what PROVINCIALISM gets you.

[Edited 2006-03-30 23:29:32]
 
STLTower
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:45 pm

RE: Update On STL?-Runway, Remodeling.....

Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting FlyBoy84 (Reply 15):
I remember reading in OFFICIAL documents that taxiways C and D will not support two-way taxiing since gates on concourses A, B, and C abut the taxiing area. When planes push back taxiway C becomes a bottleneck. Things change, so PLEASE update me.

From what I understand, AA is now only going to push off of C, 10 ft and then they are going to contact either ground or meter for the push into taxi lane Charlie. That way we can keep things moving. It will be much like we do now with the concourse A. We will see how it all works out. It sure is going to be a change. I think it is going to be one of the biggest things that we (Tower) will have to deal with and get used to.

BTW, thanks for that PDF!