ba747
Posts: 96
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:47 pm

Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:46 pm

I heard this morning on the news that VH already past the test regarding all the checks that the FAA did on them. Tomorrow is Conviasa´s turn. Let´s keep our fingers cross that everything comes out with flying colors for the Venezuelan airlines and hopefully we will get back to Category 1. I´ll try to keep everyone updated.

Saludos desde CCS

Alex
The World`s Favorite Airline
 
lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:15 pm

I personally believe the outcome is already known: the FAA is just doing these inspections as not to loose face and will of course give Venezuela its CAT1 status back, deserved or not.
Commercial interest for the American carriers about to be banned banned is just too big. Political games and nothing else  yuck 
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 1):
Political games and nothing else

It is not political games. I was consulting with Colombian carriers when they were seeking CAT 1. I do not believe that CAT 1 should be issued so easily. Safety is something that should not be compromised, and until it clearly demonstrated, keep things the way they are.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
MarcoT
Posts: 236
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 9:55 pm

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 2):
It is not political games. I

The problem is that many substains (and I'm inclined to believe) that Venezuela ending in Cat II was first and foremost political, so it is plain old karma at works  Smile
Too short space for my favorite hopelessly long winded one liner
 
civilav
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:51 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:12 am

Quoting MarcoT (Reply 3):
Venezuela ending in Cat II was first and foremost political,

Marco, maybe you are a little unfamiliar with the history of civil aviation in Venezuela but, for your information, Venezuela was downgraded to Cat. III (that existed in those days) in November 1995 after the country's civil aviation became a mess. This was exacerbated by a traffic controllers' strike in the first quarter of 95 which led to the sacking of them all and their replacement with unprepared and understaffed Air Force personnel.

The long list of near-misses, lack of supervision, faulty or non-existent airport security, missing data from registers, unrepaired communications equipment, etc., etc. would be too long to highlight here in this forum. Suffice it to say that at least 2 Avensa Boeing 727-200 planes were stranded at Miami airport and unable to depart after being found to have missing seat belts and life jackets, Zuliana de Aviación DC-9s and B-727s were impounded with drug hauls and severe corrosion problems. An FAA inspection in August 1995 determined the country was totally unfit to remain in Cat. 1 and, once the summer season was over, the official announcement came. It was so severe since it called for the immediate banning of any Venezuelan aircraft into US airports. Diplomatic channels were opened, as ever, and the country was modified to Cat. 2 which meant that existing airlines could continue to operate the routes authorised at that time but no new airlines would be allowed and no further routes flown.
When Viasa, Avensa and Servivensa all disappeared, this Cat. 2 in effect has meant that any new Venezuelan operator has been allowed in to the States provided they fly US planes with US cockpit crews.

I hope you understand now that the downgrading was definitely not politically motivated. It should be noted, too, for the sake of accuracy, that Venezuela has been so inefficient and sloppy in dealing with this problem that it has taken the country a whole decade to bring legislation, procedures and train people up to the required minimum standards. It would be no exaggeration to state that it is a disgrace that a country should take that long to do so relatively simple a job if there were the will to fix it.

Greetings from Cancun
 
lamedianaranja
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:21 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Civilav (Reply 4):
It should be noted, too, for the sake of accuracy, that Venezuela has been so inefficient and sloppy in dealing with this problem that it has taken the country a whole decade to bring legislation, procedures and train people up to the required minimum standards.

What do you think, personally, Civilav? Are they ready for it? And not only the airlines, but the airports?
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
civilav
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:51 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 5):
Are they ready for it?

Wilma,

In all fairness, yes I think Venezuela deserves to be back on Cat. 1.

There is still a lot to do but remember that this whole issue of FAA categorisation is based on ICAO guidelines and Venezuela now is comfortably above the minimum. I have a feeling civil aviation is "on the mend" in the country after the ghastly years of the 80s and 90s.

Please also bear in mind that, for a very long, long time, Avensa used to be "King". Its having been created with Pan American funds and management criteria in the 40s meant that they had a lot of weight at the then Ministry of Communications (which used to handle civil aviation) simply because it was Pan American and they had a lot of prestige. Caracas Maiquetia airport was built by Pan American and many of its procedures and professional guidelines were adopted and adhered to. In short, in the 1940s, 50s and 60s, Venezuelan Civil aviation worked and was respected because it had a lot of proper training and behind-the-scenes prodding from the FAA indirectly via Pan American. This is the truth even if it hurts patriotic feelings in Venezuela ! No surprise, then, that VIASA became what it did in that era...

When Avensa itself got partly nationalised in 1976 (the Government took a 30% shareholding as Pan Am withdrew fully) along with the remaining 49% of VIASA, then civil aviation in Venezuela steadily became a joke: everything was "pally".... Linea Aeropostal Venezolana was 100% a government body, VIASA was 100% government owned and Avensa was now 30% in the hands of the State. Politicans called the shots and civil aviation began to fall into a state of disrepair in which control, supervision, etc., etc. were all part of the political dealing and wheeling which you see in Congress, for instance. Ghastly things hushed up, pilots' Unions became all-powerful (remember the 1976 pilots' strike over a lunch allowance) and fines or warnings ignored. Complacency set in and there were was now no foreigner snooping, so to speak !!

The first devaluation (that marked the slow but ever-continuing, down glide of the Venezuelan economy as a whole) of February 18th, 1983 set a trend that has been difficult to arrest: in the face of an ever-constant loss of value of the currency, taxes are unable to keep pace with the foreign exchange denominated cost of equipment, technology and training that a properly run civil aviation body requires. The irresponsible award of a 60% wage increase to traffic controllers in September 1993 by the government of the day which passed the buck to the incoming administration, which simply ignored the award and forgot about funding its commitments, led to the strike that put the country on the spotlight. That there were so few fatal air crashes in Venezuela between 1987 and 1999 is a tribute to the dexterity and professionalism of Venezuelan pilots but never to the readiness of the government authorities to provide for safe conditions, state of the art equipment in good working condition, or an honest and dedicated supervisory staff to comply with the safety issues so critical to this activity.

Only now, paradoxically, when the country is awash temporarily with petrodollars, but with a very inept and anarchic government, is civil aviation being taken seriously and properly funded to do a decent job !!

Greetings from Cancún
 
masseybrown
Posts: 4407
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:01 pm

I expect face-saving on both sides. Assuming nothing really horrible is found in the compliance area, I can see the FAA giving a "provisional" CAT I, subject to reinspection in 6 months to ensure positive trends continue - or something like that.

I don't agree with previous posters who said that the CCS routes are vitally important to US carriers. MIA-CCS is, or at least used to be, a very high traffic segment; but it still uses only 3 or at the most 4 aircraft out of AMR's fleet of 600-some and even less out of any other US airlines' capacity. These aircraft could be profitably redeployed instantly.
 
CCSLSP
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:04 pm

hey everyone.....
I wanted to know what was going on with the Venezuelan situation....?
any recent news?



Saludos from Venezuela
Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 7):
I don't agree with previous posters who said that the CCS routes are vitally important to US carriers. MIA-CCS is, or at least used to be, a very high traffic segment; but it still uses only 3 or at the most 4 aircraft out of AMR's fleet of 600-some and even less out of any other US airlines' capacity. These aircraft could be profitably redeployed instantly.

Venezuela is AA's most important S. American market and second most important in Latin America after Mexico.

With 5X dailies to MIA from CCS and MAR, 1X daily to DFW, 1x daily to SJU and the 4X weekly to JFK, it's a significant part of their Latam market.

It isn't AA's most important market but you can't also underestimate it.

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 9):
hey everyone.....
I wanted to know what was going on with the Venezuelan situation....?
any recent news?

No news... the media went silent after the FAA mission left the country. The FAA guys turned in their report about Venezuela and the big-guys calling the shots in Washington are currently deciding what to do with Venezuela's CAT. The new deadline is April 25th, lets wait a couple of weeks to know what's gonna happen.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:57 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 10):
Venezuela is AA's most important S. American market and second most important in Latin America after Mexico.

I don't think so. You can't look at just frequency. Much of the Vzla business is very low yield.

I am sure that EZE GRU SCL GIG and perhaps even BOG are far more important routes in terms of yield and other factors.

Also the Veneuzela-US market is fading and will continue to fade. Despite booming oil business the regime in Vzla has scared away huge amounts of business travel to Vzla, as is the case with non business travel. As for Venezuelans travelling to and from the US that market will continue to recede as it becomes more and more difficult for Venezuelans to obtain or even apply for US entry visas. It's already extremely difficult to get one in Vzla and as the 'Cubanization' of Vzla continues it will only get more so, most unfortunately.
 
tope98
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:05 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting CayMan (Reply 11):
I don't think so. You can't look at just frequency. Much of the Vzla business is very low yield.

AA´s market in Venezuela in not low yield. MIA is just 3 hours away and tickets are sold for no less than 450 uss. SJU is an hour and a half and each ticket is about same price as above, just to give some examples.

And most of the time flights are always full... I dont know whether is or not the most important market right now but certainly it has always been a big one, and they dont want to lose it so easily.
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting CayMan (Reply 11):
I don't think so. You can't look at just frequency. Much of the Vzla business is very low yield.

I am sure that EZE GRU SCL GIG and perhaps even BOG are far more important routes in terms of yield and other factors.

I'm sorry but that's isn't true. None of markets you mentioned are more important for AA in S. America. The fact that Venezuela's is AA's strongest S. American market is well known by everyone and AA always says it.

Also how can you dare to say that the Venezuelan market is low yield when you have USD 700+ fares in a 1.5 hour flight between CCS and SJU? Or 500+ in a 3hour flight to MIA? I don't even wanna mention the MAR-MIA nonstop and the JFK one.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
CCSLSP
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 12):
I'm sorry but that's isn't true. None of markets you mentioned are more important for AA in S. America. The fact that Venezuela's is AA's strongest S. American market is well known by everyone and AA always says it.

Also how can you dare to say that the Venezuelan market is low yield when you have USD 700+ fares in a 1.5 hour flight between CCS and SJU? Or 500+ in a 3hour flight to MIA? I don't even wanna mention the MAR-MIA nonstop and the JFK one.

Totally agree.....

Hey on a different note what happen to AA's plans to add Valencia to their network I know that San Juan-Porlamar was denied by the Venezuelan government... but I never knew what happen to the Valencia rumours...

And does anyone know why the Fort Lauderdale flight was cancelled???
Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 13):

Hey on a different note what happen to AA's plans to add Valencia to their network I know that San Juan-Porlamar was denied by the Venezuelan government... but I never knew what happen to the Valencia rumours...

The SJU-PMV denial was a strong signal by the INAC to American carriers telling them to restrain from asking for new routes. This was a signal of what was going to happen in Feb 2006. If the FAA upgrades us to CAT I, I'm sure we'll see both SJU-PMV and VLN-MIA flights by AA.

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 13):
And does anyone know why the Fort Lauderdale flight was cancelled???

Despite strong loads, yields were too low for the flight to be considered a success. It also stole pax from their MIA flights, so the decision was taken to cancel it. Maybe if we get CAT I and Venezuelan airlines start flooding the S. Florida market, the FLL flight might become a good option for AA. I know people who took that flight because FLL was closer to Weston, thus easier to fly to. Also Inmigration and Customs at FLL was more relaxed that MIA.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
CCSLSP
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 14):
I know people who took that flight because FLL was closer to Weston, thus easier to fly to. Also Inmigration and Customs at FLL was more relaxed that MIA.
Yeah mi family........ I never got to see how the loads where but I assume that there were really good to bad it was cancelled... hope to see this whole situation with the FAA resolving very soon... Is anybody else getting worry after this weeks of silence??? I can only imagine the fares on CCS-MIA if this measure takes place... 900$ even 1000$ round trip....



[Edited 2006-04-12 20:13:41]

[Edited 2006-04-12 20:14:37]
Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:02 am

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 15):
Is anybody else getting worry after this weeks of silence??? I can only imagine the fares on CCS-MIA if this measure takes place... 900$ even 1000$ round trip....

To be honest, I ain't worried. I think the tactic used by the INAC is going to work. We'll be CAT I soon... there's too much money involved.

By the way CCSLSP, didn't you get my private message welcoming you to the forums?

Now I'm off to the beach and to do some CCS spotting  Smile

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 12):
I'm sorry but that's isn't true. None of markets you mentioned are more important for AA in S. America. The fact that Venezuela's is AA's strongest S. American market is well known by everyone and AA always says it.

I see no basis in fact to support that. EZE and the others appear to be far more important. I think you drastically over-estimate the importance of Vzla as a market for AA or Us customers.


And there is no question Venezuela is a fast fading market. With things going as they are there will be few if any Vzlans who are permitted to or can practically travel to the US.
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:07 am

Quoting CayMan (Reply 17):
I see no basis in fact to support that. EZE and the others appear to be far more important.

Please show us with hard numbers and AA financial data that EZE is far more important than Venezuela.

Quoting CayMan (Reply 17):
think you drastically over-estimate the importance of Vzla as a market for AA or Us customers.

I ain't over-estimating the Venezuelan market, it's simply the reality whether you like it or not.

The Venezuelan market is the most important in S. America for AA (American Airlines), I never said US Customers so with all due respect I'd appreciate if you stop putting words in my mouth  Smile.


Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

[Edited 2006-04-12 21:13:43]
 
cayman
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:28 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 18):
Please show us with hard numbers and AA financial data that EZE is far more important than Venezuela.

This comes up all the time on a.net. Someone makes a bold statement and then when someone else questions that they simply demand "hard numbers" as if to imply that challenge itself proves something. I never purported to have hard numbers I am not an executive with AA and if I were I would not post them here.

By way of observation EZE, for example is a considerably more premium market that CCS is. CCS does not even receive first class service on AA just business and I have flown the EZE flight and it apears to do very well in premium traffic.

I would invite you to produce evidence of when and where AA has said that Vzla is its "strongest S American market." Kindly back that statement up.

I note you have not bothered to respond to my assertion, well supported by fact, that even if Vzla were "the most imprtant S American market for AA" it surely will not be for long. It will become nearly impossible for Vzlans to travel to the US and it is already increasingly difficult or impractical.
 
RICARIZA
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 7:56 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting CayMan (Reply 10):
I am sure that EZE GRU SCL GIG and perhaps even BOG are far more important routes in terms of yield and other factors.



Quoting CayMan (Reply 17):
I see no basis in fact to support that. EZE and the others appear to be far more important. I think you drastically over-estimate the importance of Vzla as a market for AA or Us customers

I don't know the numbers, maybe Venezuela is the strongest market, I don't know, but consider that AA flies not only twice daily to BOG, but also daily to MDE and daily to CLO.
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:38 am

While Venezuela might be large market volume wise as evident by the flight frequencies, I would hardly term it as AA's best Latin market.

As such I would believe the deep South America service to places like Brazil and possibly Argentina and Chile would be more profitable and important to AA in the bigger picture of its Latin American network.

Also dont forget Venezuela is basically a stagnant if not declining market particularly business wise due to the current political situation, while other AA Latin America destinations serve markets that are growing steadily.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
tope98
Posts: 78
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:05 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:54 am

I do think that possibly Brazil is a more profitable market, they have multiple flights down there with lots of premiun passengers. Regarding SCL and EZE i dont think are stronger than Venezuela, they have less flights and even they have premiun passengers as well i think numbers are not much better than Venezuela, but i dont have numbers here

However i just wanted to make sure above that Venezuela is not a low-yield market. Also they dont fly to more cities in Venezuela because they didnt get permission from INAC not because they dont want to.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 21):
Also dont forget Venezuela is basically a stagnant if not declining market particularly business wise due to the current political situation, while other AA Latin America destinations serve markets that are growing steadily.

Sadly is true. But amazingly traffic between this two countries is still very strong. Hope someday good days come back.

Saludos
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2298
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:42 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 18):
The Venezuelan market is the most important in S. America for AA (American Airlines)

Luis, I also consider this to be a pretty risky statement which you have repeated with vehemence. I respectfully invite you to re-consider, for instance, importance should be understood as what? Net Revenue? Profits? Passengers Moved? Yields? Cargo performance? It sounds as if you were assuming that Venezuela was the South American leader in all these aspects, which I, once again, consider to be off the mark.

Don't get me wrong, I am not denying Venezuela's importance as the market it is, and one would have to be blind to underestimate Caracas relevance as one of AA's most active stations in the continent, if not the most active. But it is always healthy to remind that just below us we have a powerful monster called Brazil, for instance.

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 20):
I don't know the numbers, maybe Venezuela is the strongest market, I don't know, but consider that AA flies not only twice daily to BOG, but also daily to MDE and daily to CLO.

Simply based on numer of flights, it isn't hard to imagine that Venezuela tops Colombia off in terms of general revenue and passengers moved for AA. It is hard to obtain information about yields though, but it is said that the highest yielding station for AA in Colombia is Cali, though Bogota obviously brings in more overall revenue.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
CCSLSP
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:24 am

Just to be fair i think that in terms of passengers and yields Venezuela and Colombia "Se dan duro" But still I think that Venezuela is stronger for AA than Colombia... Take note that I'm saying AA's network is stronger in Venezuela, because if we count all of the airlines of both country's then Colombia with Avianca alone will definitely kick our butts... Maybe this will change after the Cat 1 for Venezuela and will have a strong Venezuelan flag carrier like Colombia...

A question for Colombians, any news or rumours of new Avianca international routes???

[Edited 2006-04-13 00:30:54]
Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!
 
Avianca
Posts: 5268
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:45 am

Quoting Tope98 (Reply 22):
Regarding SCL and EZE i dont think are stronger than Venezuela, they have less flights and even they have premiun passengers as well i think numbers are not much better than Venezuela, but i dont have numbers here

EZE is a very strong AA station.

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 24):
Just to be fair i think that in terms of passengers and yields Venezuela and Colombia "Se dan duro" But still I think that Venezuela is stronger for AA than Colombia... Take note that I'm saying AA's network is stronger in Venezuela, because if we count all of the airlines of both country's then Colombia with Avianca alone will definitely kick our butts... Maybe this will change after the Cat 1 for Venezuela and will have a strong Venezuelan flag carrier like Colombia...

the total revenue for AA in Venezuela should be higher than in Colombia as they are offering more seats to Venezuela than to Colombia, regarding the yield per passenger it should be nearly the same.

Regarding Cargo I am pritty sure AA is much stronger in Colombia than in Venezuela.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2298
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:50 am

Just as a disclaimer, my last post was never intended to specifically compare Colombia with Venezuela; but instead, Venezuela's case with the rest of South America in general.

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 24):
Just to be fair i think that in terms of passengers and yields Venezuela and Colombia "Se dan duro" But still I think that Venezuela is stronger for AA than Colombia...

As I said, I'm not too keen on generalizing, but to give a global idea, yes, AA does have a stronger position in Venezuela than in Colombia, especially because of Caracas.

Quoting CCSLSP (Reply 24):
A question for Colombians, any news or rumours of new Avianca international routes?

There are apparently no more plans for international routes, aside from the already announced. But I believe it's enough, otherwise they would be growing out of the airline's fleet capabilities.

The following routes are set to start in the upcoming mid-year and are already loaded in reservation systems. Barcelona and Alicante are planned for this year as well.

Pereira-Barranquilla-New York 4x weekly
Pereira-Cartagena-Miami 3x weekly
Bogota-Los Angeles 3x weekly



SOUTHAMERICA
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 23):

Luis, I also consider this to be a pretty risky statement which you have repeated with vehemence. I respectfully invite you to re-consider, for instance, importance should be understood as what? Net Revenue? Profits? Passengers Moved? Yields? Cargo performance? It sounds as if you were assuming that Venezuela was the South American leader in all these aspects, which I, once again, consider to be off the mark.

A couple of months ago in a thread, we started a discussion about SA)">AA in Latin America. A couple of respected a.netters from the US, who always provide us with excellent news about US-Latin America aviation, mentioned that Venezuela's was SA)">AA's most important station in S. America.

My statements in this thread are only quoting what I learned from that thread. I don't know exactly in which aspects (cargo, yields, pax moved, revenue...) Venezuela leads in SA)">AA's S. American network.

Also when you live in Caracas and you go to a shopping mall and you see a SA)">AA ticket counter right next to the elevators and then another inside an important supermarket right next to the groceries, that must tell you something about SA)">AA...

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 23):

Simply based on numer of flights, it isn't hard to imagine that Venezuela tops Colombia off in terms of general revenue and passengers moved for SA)">AA. It is hard to obtain information about yields though, but it is said that the highest yielding station for SA)">AA in Colombia is Cali, though Bogota obviously brings in more overall revenue.

SA, it is usually cheaper to fly via BOG with AV to MIA instead of taking the nonstop with either SA)">AA, VH or S3. Last summer when I flew to MIA with S3 nonstop, I did it because S3 offered a 3-day anniversary 50% off sale and I paid USD 270. Reg fare is USD 540+ taxes. USD 500+ fares for a 3hour flight must give you great yields, especially when you are able to fill two A300s, one 757 and a 738 each day without problems.

Also one of the facts that SA)">AA is so dominant in Venezuela is because we are CAT II, so our airlines face serious limitation for their US flights. US carriers have 90% and Venezuelan airlines have 10% of the market.

By the way SA, are there any pics of VH's MD80s in MDE? Have you heard anything in the local press about VH flying to MDE?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2298
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:29 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 27):
My statements in this thread are only quoting what I learned from that thread. I don't know exactly in which aspects (cargo, yields, pax moved, revenue...) Venezuela leads in SA)">AA's S. American network.

That's precisely why I wanted to call your attention Luis. There's basically no point in making such a rigid judgement, or even worse, assuming such a strict attitude beside it, when you have no solid figures to back it up.

I did imagine you were basing your statement on previous discussions here, but it is safe to remember that even these so-called respected users fail to back-up their statements with hard numbers on many occasions; not necessarily meaning that they're false, but most certainly not worthy of receiving the "last word" title. People can sure develop an amazingly effective convincing power, which persists even on arguments based on yields for instance, where getting accurate info is particularly difficult.

Nothing personal, just my point of view.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 27):
Also when you live in Caracas and you go to a shopping mall and you see a SA)">AA ticket counter right next to the elevators and then another inside an important supermarket right next to the groceries, that must tell you something about SA)">AA...

...Or it could simply tell you that AA has settled a strategic relationship with a local entity to better market its services. It may surprise you, but AA does exactly the same here in MDE. AA has a tight alliance with Parque Comercial El Tesoro here in Medellin, one of the city's most important malls, where you find AA kiosks and publicity all over the place, and where buyers can add miles to their AAdvantage accounts according to the shopping they do.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 27):
By the way SA, are there any pics of VH's MD80s in MDE? Have you heard anything in the local press about VH flying to MDE?

No pictures have been published on the web yet. Local media did indeed announce VH's new nonstop service to Caracas, both with a couple of TV announcements, and with a sizeable ad on the city's main newspaper.

I was at the airport a couple of days ago, and had the chance to see the airline's counters, located between AA's and CM's, and smaller elements such as belts, security boots and carpets, all tagged with the company logo.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 28):

That's precisely why I wanted to call your attention Luis. There's basically no point in making such a rigid judgement, or even worse, assuming such a strict attitude beside it, when you have no solid figures to back it up.

Good point SA. The thing is that people started posting that AA's station in Venezuela was "insignificant" out of a 600 plane-fleet. Then another user said it was mainly low-yield pax. None of their opinions were based on hard numbers. My counter-opinion wasn't based on solid figures but was at least based on info from these forums that came from reliable users, thus giving me the upperhand in the discussion but as you said, not the "last word".

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 28):
Nothing personal, just my point of view.

A very valid point of view which is definitely respected.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 28):
It may surprise you, but AA does exactly the same here in MDE. AA has a tight alliance with Parque Comercial El Tesoro here in Medellin, one of the city's most important malls, where you find AA kiosks and publicity all over the place, and where buyers can add miles to their AAdvantage accounts according to the shopping they do.

Very interesting to know. It looks like AA's marketing is unique in its industry. I was very surprised to see a ticket counter next to the drinks aisle, as if an airline ticket was a grocery. I had never seen anything like it in other countries.

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 28):
I was at the airport a couple of days ago, and had the chance to see the airline's counters, located between AA's and CM's, and smaller elements such as belts, security boots and carpets, all tagged with the company logo.

Interesting to hear about the sizeable newspaper ad. I wish the best to VH in this new enterprise. By the way, we are dying to get some MDE-VH pics from the north side of the Arauca  Smile

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
Avianca
Posts: 5268
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting SOUTHAMERICA (Reply 28):
I was at the airport a couple of days ago, and had the chance to see the airline's counters, located between AA's and CM's, and smaller elements such as belts, security boots and carpets, all tagged with the company logo.

Wow I can imagine the caos in the morning at these counters, It was already a horror in the morning without VH....

But really great that there is now a nonstop flight CCS-MDE btw, VH offers very good fares on the route, much more cheaper than the other 3 options

AV, VH via BOG or CM.
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24518
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 9):

Venezuela is AA's most important S. American market and second most important in Latin America after Mexico.

The importance of Veneuzela to American Airlines' network is not being doubted, but Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires are AA's two most important South American stations, and probably bring in more profit than AA's Venzuela operation. AA 900/909 (MIA-EZE) is the single most profitable AA flight, and AA 950/951 (JFK-GRU-GIG) is, IIRC, third. And lest we forget very lucrative cargo to the market, especially Sao Paulo.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 14):
If the FAA upgrades us to CAT I, I'm sure we'll see both SJU-PMV and VLN-MIA flights by AA.

MIA-PMV, 2x weekly, and daily MIA-VLN, both 738s, along with 4-5x weekly SJU-PMV on ATRs. We'll see, but it's in the plans. MIA-VLN was supposed to launch 1 November 2002 but was canceled literally hours before the PR.
a.
 
luisde8cd
Posts: 2444
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:02 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
The importance of Veneuzela to American Airlines' network is not being doubted, but Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires are AA's two most important South American stations, and probably bring in more profit than AA's Venzuela operation. AA 900/909 (MIA-EZE) is the single most profitable AA flight, and AA 950/951 (JFK-GRU-GIG) is, IIRC, third. And lest we forget very lucrative cargo to the market, especially Sao Paulo.

I stand corrected then.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 31):
MIA-PMV, 2x weekly, and daily MIA-VLN, both 738s, along with 4-5x weekly SJU-PMV on ATRs. We'll see, but it's in the plans.

Interesting plans, looks like they'll go directly after VH.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
CCSLSP
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:37 am

RE: Situation So Far With FAA In Venezuela

Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:48 am

Very good news I really hope that everything works out soon... And maybe we'll go back to Venezuela golden era??? When Viasa Avensa and Aeropostal (Not AeroPOSTIN) rule the Sky's..... maybe soon
Planes are soooo sexy, that I dont want to have sex in a plane, but with a plane...!!!!!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alasizon, Baidu [Spider], CANPILOT, flyingclrs727, gregn21, HAL, MAH4546, MaxxFlyer, piedmont762, Polot, skipness1E, usflyer msp, zaphod42 and 264 guests