alaska737
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UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:48 pm

a few years back i heard that UA had placed an order for a rather large number of 737-700's to replace the 500's and 300's. in fact some model company even came out with a model of the plane. is this true, did UA have orders for the plane or were they considering it or whats the deal?

Thank you,
Alaska 737
 
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Stitch
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:28 pm

With the 737NG not yet on the drawing board, UA chose the A319 and A320 as their next generation narrowbody. So the 737NG is not going to be in UA's fleet. They will continue to add A319s and A320s as they retire the 733s and 735s, and will then either choose the 737RS or A320RS in the mid-2010s as their next narrowbody.
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:36 pm

Prior to exiting Ch11 recently, United reaffirmed its 40-odd A319/A320 options. The airline has until near the end of the decade to act on them.

As mentioned in the previous post, when United chose the Airbus narrow body Boeing had yet to come out with the B737NG. Only Boeing choices were 737-300/400/500, none of which provided the economics nor range capabilities of the Airbus babies.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
socal
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:51 pm

It would make sense to get 700 series, good range and a great looking plane..........



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zvezda
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:15 pm

UA has never ordered the B737NG. They have 42 A319/A320s on deferred order, with no scheduled delivery dates. It is expected that UA will take delivery of the 42 Airbii and then not place any additional single-aisle orders until the B737RS and NSR are available.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:23 pm

Quoting Socal (Reply 3):
It would make sense to get 700 series, good range and a great looking plane..........

Why? The A319/A320 does the job just fine.
 
UAPremierGuy
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:04 pm

Quoting Ramprat74 (Reply 5):
Why? The A319/A320 does the job just fine.

Because United is an American company, and Airbus is, well...not.
It's Time To Fly!
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:17 pm

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 6):
Because United is an American company

I guess we should not expect British Airways, Lufthansa or for that matter any foreign company to purchase Boeing or US materials then.

The world economies are very interlinked, and as such business and you as the consumer have the choice to purchase a wide variety of things made in many different countries. And choice is a wonderful thing, it promotes competition in quality and price.

Not to start an A vs B war here, however the Airbus product suits United needs just fine. An anyways, a good percentage of parts on those A319/A320s are actually made in the USA. From avionics, to a significant portion of the engine!
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
kiwiandrew

RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:21 pm

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 6):
Because United is an American company, and Airbus is, well...not.

I assume you are joking . Does that mean that other countries should not buy American products either ? If so say goodbye to millions of American jobs in export industries .
 
kiwiandrew

RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:23 pm

...anyway , UA have no need to order 737NG - they will inherit a huge fleet when they take over CO  stirthepot   duck 
 
Carpethead
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:16 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
UA chose the A319 and A320

A little correction, if I may.
UA intially chose the A320 as a smaller counterpart to the 757 for transcons. Something the 733/734/735 couldn't do with an adequate payload. The A319 came natural when it became available and hence ordered a few years later.

This was one of major factors in why the 737NG was launched.
 
ASAFA
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 6):
Because United is an American company, and Airbus is, well...not.

Way to toss even more fuel on the "American's are idiots" fire. Since when has a company considered anything other than the bottom line? United ordered Airbus because economically it made sense at the time.

Now... back to the topic.

Quoting Alaska737 (Thread starter):
in fact some model company even came out with a model of the plane

Where did you see this? If so that'd be pretty cool, especially with winglets.

Regardless, I don't think United has ordered anything from Boeing since the introduction of the 777.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 6):
Because United is an American company, and Airbus is, well...not.

YAWN YAWN  Embarrassment
 
roseflyer
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:24 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
Only Boeing choices were 737-300/400/500, none of which provided the economics nor range capabilities of the Airbus babies.

Well that isn't entirely true. The A320 is more versatile, but not necessarily more efficient. The 737-300s are more efficient than the A319s (roughly same capacity) on the many short trips that United flies in the midwest. The 733 is lighter and better for the short flights. United's 737s are getting old, but they still are efficient planes on the busy routes that United flies in the Midwest and to the east coast with flight times usually under 2 hours. The 737s are not only being replaced with A319s, but also with EMB170s and CR7s. Many of those flights in the Midwest have gone to the 70 seat regional jets where United has wildly expanded in the last two years. United is cutting capacity but maintaining frequency with Explus.

United purchased the A320s initially in the early 90s to supplement the 737s and 757s. United was operating some 737s at the edge of their limits on ORD-west coast and DEN-east coast flights. The 757s just had too much capacity. Also in order for IAD to work and have any frequency to smaller west coast markets, something smaller than the 757 was needed. Airbus produced such a plane with the perfect amount of range. It was great for some of these longer flights and still efficient for shorter flights.

The United A320 order was a huge blow for Boeing since United has a history dating back to the 30s of being a loyal Boeing customer (except for some differences when United choose the DC-8). By losing such an important customer, Boeing jumpstarted the 737NG project. The 737NGs gave the range and long distance operating characteristics of the A320s.

It is an interesting battle between two companies going head to head. Boeing used to only worry about McDonnell Douglas. The MD80 and 733 were about the same, but the entry of Airbus made Boeing produce a more capable plane. Unfortunately it didn't work out for MD as they failed with the MD90. It isn't a war between countries, just simple competition in a competitive market with only 2-3 players over the past 70 years. The two most important things for airlines are efficiency and versatility. Airbus beat out Boeing in the narrowbody race by a number of years, but it has gone the other way as well.

[Edited 2006-03-30 15:35:58]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
boeingguy1
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 12):
Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 6):
Because United is an American company, and Airbus is, well...not.

YAWN YAWN

Drop it.. lets get back on the subject.
Gatwick South! Id rather crash in Brighton!
 
congaboy
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 7):

The world economies are very interlinked, and as such business and you as the consumer have the choice to purchase a wide variety of things made in many different countries. And choice is a wonderful thing, it promotes competition in quality and price.

.......

a good percentage of parts on those A319/A320s are actually made in the USA. From avionics, to a significant portion of the engine!

Well stated, Lax. For the benefit of all future posts regarding any hint of A vs. B, this should be a sub-heading for all to see before nationalistic commentaries are made. Boeing is not totally American, and Airbus is not totally European....again! Say it!!!
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
767-332ER
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 6):
Because United is an American company, and Airbus is, well...not.

Holy crap mate. Now we wonder by everyone looks at us Americans as idiots. So answer this for us please....
Why should the following companies operate Boeing?

-Iberia
-British Airways
-KLM
-Alitalia
-SkyEurope
-Lufthansa
-Air France
-CSA
-SAS
-Air Europa
-Air Berlin
-Austrian
-LOT
-Easyjet
-Ryanair
-Aer Lingus
-BMI
-Britannia
so on....They are all European, so based on your logic, they should operate Airbus.
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
dutchjet
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:05 am

Excellent analysis RoseFlyer.....thanks.

There were rumors that UA was considering placing an order for the 737NG a few years back: this was during the United mailine/Shuttle by United period....the idea was that UA would operate the A32X while Shuttle would operate 737NGs replacing the 733/735s that operated on the Shuttle network (and 732s that were still in service with UA mainline). UA had such a large requirement for 125-150 seat airliners that flying two types side by side was not an operational issue.

Now that Shuttle is out and Ted is in, who knows if UA will ever consider ordering the 737NG......UA still has a good number of 733s and 735s, but the numbers of such types have been reduced, regional jets and small jets (like the CRJ900/E175 family) have made their impact, and UA is a very different airline than it was previously. For the time being, UA is not in a rush to replace the 733/735 fleet, but when they do address this issue, it will be interesting to see what choices they make.
 
zvezda
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 13):
The two most important things for airlines are efficiency and versatility.

 checkmark  This is fundamental. It nicely illustrates, for example, the WhaleJet's problem. The WhaleJet is the very opposite of versatile. To be successful, it had to offer a dramatic improvement in efficiency. To be beaten in CASM by both the B747-8 and the B787-10 so soon could not have been in Airbus' plan. The B787-10 can be expected to do very well because it beats both the JumboJet and the WhaleJet in both efficiency and versatility.
 
UAPremierGuy
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:28 am

To all:

Forgive me for love and support of American countries! Am I proud of America? Yes. Will I support an American-OWNED company over a European-OWNED company? Yes, anyday. I'm not trying to turn this into an A vs B debate, so hopefully this will be the last post on that subject. My point was simply that as an American company, it would be nice if UA actually hired American res. agents, instead of outsourcing them to India, and instead of outsourcing heavy maintenance on the 747 to China, kept it in the US. Is it going to happen? No, and I recognize that. We, for better or worse, live in a global economy. All I was saying is that, as an American, I have pride in those who manufacture planes on US soil. I recognize that all Boeing's parts and planes aren't American, but the majority are.

But please, let's drop this subject and go back to the topic at hand! Thanks for letting me clarify. No hard feelings at all.  Smile
It's Time To Fly!
 
N1120A
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:00 am

Quoting Alaska737 (Thread starter):
a few years back i heard that UA had placed an order for a rather large number of 737-700's to replace the 500's and 300's. in fact some model company even came out with a model of the plane. is this true, did UA have orders for the plane or were they considering it or whats the deal?

Actually, you are thinking of Frontier's order to replace their 732s and 733s. Boeing actually took out a full page ad in their inflight magazine of a 73G in F9 colors. It was the abject arrogance of Boeing's sales team that lost them the Frontier and jetBlue orders.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):
Only Boeing choices were 737-300/400/500, none of which provided the economics nor range capabilities of the Airbus babies.

Like Roseflyer said, the 737Classic actually has better economics than the A320 Family and the 737NGs on flights within their range band. The significantly lighter weight combined with only marginally lower SFC make that a reality. The higher DR of the 737Classic as compares to the A32S adds to that

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 6):
Because United is an American company, and Airbus is, well...not.

That is absolutely ridiculous
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LAXintl
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
737Classic actually has better economics than the A320 Family

I respectfully disagree.

The hourly operating cost of United's A319/A320 is lower then UA's hourly cost on the 735/733, even with the higher ownership cost of the Airbus. Same holds true for Frontier, America West and US Air whom have all operated both the Airbus baby and 737 Classics side by side. (I can happily supply the numbers) The baby Airbus beats the classic 737-300/400/500 these days.

Then add in additional the payload/range capability of the Airbus, it becomes far superior and tips the economic scale even further.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
phllax
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:36 am

I thought the 320 was ordered because the 737-400 had 12 fewer seats in UA's configuration and could not make IAD-West Coast non-stop without added center fuel tanks and a cargo penalty.
 
socal
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:26 am

Airbus can't match the performance of the new 737's thats why............
I Love HNL.............
 
roseflyer
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting Socal (Reply 23):
Airbus can't match the performance of the new 737's thats why............

That is uncalled for. Airbus produced a great plane in the A320, but the design is over 18 years old. The fact that it is still selling is quite impressive. The 737NGs are about half that age.

Airbus undoubtedly will produce a plane that is better than the current 737. It will take time however. Airbus currently has its resources tied up with the A380 and A350. With time though you can expect Airbus to produce a new plane and Boeing to as well that will replace both the 737 and A320. I expect it to be a huge battle with both turning out very successful planes that will be competing head to head for years and years.

The A320 really is what made Airbus a competitive company in the aerospace market. They developed a plane in a previously unexploited area (the 100-150 seat twin with US transcontinental range). It won some huge orders like the United order that this thread is about. Boeing retaliated and produced a plane that filled the same niche. It isn't a case of one company being better than the other, but rather strong competition.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
AADC10
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:06 am

UA has no need to buy the 737NG. With 42 A319/320s coming they will probably retire more 737s.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 13):
The United A320 order was a huge blow for Boeing since United has a history dating back to the 30s of being a loyal Boeing customer

United should have been a loyal customer since the main airline that was merged to form United was Boeing Air Transport, which Boeing was forced to sell under antitrust pressure. United also owned Pratt & Whitney for a time.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:53 am

When United went to buy new aircraft, Airbus A320s were the best available. That simple. Given their history of Boeing loyalty, i'm sure they would have bought 73Gs if they had been available.

At the moment, 4 of the top 5 American airlines have exclusivity deals going with Boeing (AA, DL, WN, and CO). US Airways has shown that they are buying basically exclusively Airbus, same goes with Frontier and Jetblue. United and NW play both sides of the fence. UA seems like they'll fly an Airbus narrowbody fleet and a Boeing widebody. NW looks like they'll keep their 744s, take on 787s, but fly A319/320 and 330 as well.


If I were betting though, my guess is if the new 737 and A320 replacements are equally as good, UA will go back to Boeing. As a US carrier, it never hurts to fly Boeing planes, atleast as far as the flying public goes. That said, I know people excited to fly on NW's new Airbus A330s (and after decades of DC-10, I can understand that enthusiasm).
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
N1120A
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 21):
(I can happily supply the numbers)

Actually, I would really like those, because I have seen the complete opposite.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
roseflyer
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 25):
United should have been a loyal customer since the main airline that was merged to form United was Boeing Air Transport, which Boeing was forced to sell under antitrust pressure. United also owned Pratt & Whitney for a time.

The whole reason for antitrust pressure is so that the new company can work with competitors. The government made Boeing eliminate its air division so that the company could not hold a vertical monopoly on aviation. So that isn't really a reason for why United should be loyal.

I'll elaborate on the history for those who care. United's and Boeing's loyalty cost the companies a lot in the past. United had an exclusivity deal with Boeing for the first deliveries of the Boeing 247 in the early 1930s. This was thought to be the best airplane available and United cornered the market. So what did the competing airlines do? They went to Douglas and asked for a similar, yet better plane. Douglas eventually came out with the DC-3 which beat the pants off Boeing and United. If it hadn't been for the loyalty between United and Boeing there is a good chance that there wouldn't have even been a DC-3.

Boeing and United also diverged when United went for the DC-8 instead of the 707. It was a huge disappointment for Boeing and triumph for Douglas. Boeing eventually won United back with the 720 which was a shortened 707, but United wanted it to have a new name so that people wouldn't think that United was giving in and going to Boeing after so proudly purchasing DC-8s. From that point up until the early 90s, United was loyal to Boeing. United bought the 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, and 767 as well as the DC10 which Boeing had no comparable airplane. Eventually United did go to Airbus because they offered a versatile plane that was what United wanted. Boeing lost that order, but when a new generation of narrowbodies come out, expect Boeing to push hard in order to win United back.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
azstagecoach
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Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:55 pm

RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 25):
United also owned Pratt & Whitney for a time.

Wow. When, and more importantly, why?
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting Azstagecoach (Reply 29):
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 25):
United also owned Pratt & Whitney for a time.

Wow. When, and more importantly, why?

The United Aircraft and Transport Corporation was formed in 1929 when William Boeing and the founder of Pratt & Whitney's airplane powerplant division teamed up. Previously Pratt&Whitney was just a manufacturer of machine tools dating back to the Civil War. The holding company controlled Boeing, Pratt & Whitney, United Airlines, Hamilton Aero, and some other companies.

In 1934 the federal government broke up the company. It was a huge conglomerate that was totally beginning to dominate the aviation industry. It had so much power and the government did need to break it up in order to allow there to be competition. United Airlines went its own way and merged many airlines together. Boeing went its own way that we all know about (and today is one of the largest companies in the world that has not gone through a merger). The other companies were folded up into what eventually became the conglomerate of United Technologies (which is one of the largest companies in the world and employs well over 200,000 people). Since its foundation, United Technologies has gone on to acquire many other divisions (including the company that I work for) and is a leading first tier supplier to Boeing, Airbus and every other airplane manufacture in the western world. It also owns Sikorsky, Otis Elevator and other divisions that are branching out beyond aviation.

It should be no shock that the company that owns Pratt & Whitney has the same name as United Airlines and that United Airlines is a loyal Pratt & Whitney customer and is pretty loyal to Boeing as well. Many airlines have interesting histories, but United's is one of the most fascinating.

[Edited 2006-03-31 03:47:04]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Actually, I would really like those, because I have seen the complete opposite.

Here we go..

For comparison purposes, I'll dig back a couple years to 2003 and also show the 2005 numbers. 2003 is probably more realistic especially for Frontier which at the time had a larger 737 fleet, so the number are not skewed with a smaller sample as 2005 might represent for them.

I also picked randomly Q2 as the sample period for the respective years.
Cost are per block hour and represent, crew, airframe maintenance, engine maintenance, fuel, depreciation, rent, and accruals.
Source for all the data is DOT Form-41 reports.

America West
B737-300 F8Y126
2003:$2380hr/$17.76 per seat
2005:$2948/$22.00
A319 F12Y112
2003:$1843/$14.86
2005:$2425/$19.56
A320 F12Y138
2003:$2498/$16.65
2005:$3044/$20.29

Frontier
B737-300 Y138
2003:$2818hr/$20.42 per seat
2005:$4087/$29.62 (likely skewed due small fleet size)
A319 Y132
2003:$2245/$17.01
2005:$2749/$20.83

United
B737-500 F8Y96 (non ex shuttle)
2003:$2318hr/$22.29 per seat
2005:$2606/$25.06
B737-300 F8Y112 (non ex shuttle)
2003:$2456/$20.47
2005:$2829/$23.58
A319 F8Y112
2003:$2219/$18.49
2005:$2494/$20.78
A320 F12Y126 (non TED)
2003:$2557/$18.53
2005:$2753/$19.95

US Airways
B737-300 F12Y114
2003:$2972hr/$23.59 per seat
2005:$2656/$21.08
B737-400 F12Y132
2003:$3356/$22.68
2005:$3166/$21.39
A319 F12Y108
2003:$2182/$18.18
2005:$2566/$21.38
A320 F16Y126
2003:$2886/$20.32
2005:$2813/$19.81


Keep in mind also what has transpired between 2003 and 2005. Fuel cost have risen which have pushed hourly cost up as very well illustrated by America West. On the other hand however both United and US Airways managed to receive significant reductions in labor and ownership cost via their Ch11 filings which lead either small increases or even some reductions as in the case of US Airways.

Never the less however as you can see the Airbus babies beat the Boeing baby classics certainly on a perseat cost basis and in most cases on even a total hourly cost basis.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MalpensaSFO
Posts: 1110
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 6):
Because United is an American company, and Airbus is, well...not

AVE MARIA.... And people wonder why I think the way I do...

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 19):
My point was simply that as an American company, it would be nice if UA actually hired American res. agents, instead of outsourcing them to India, and instead of outsourcing heavy maintenance on the 747 to China, kept it in the US.

If you can get the cost of employment and commerce down in America we can talk, until then take a seat in the back of the "bus"... wink 
TO FLY IS TO SERVE
 
azstagecoach
Posts: 137
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:17 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 30):
It should be no shock that the company that owns Pratt & Whitney has the same name as United Airlines and that United Airlines is a loyal Pratt & Whitney customer and is pretty loyal to Boeing as well. Many airlines have interesting histories, but United's is one of the most fascinating.

Fascinating indeed. Thanks.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:41 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 31):

Never the less however as you can see the Airbus babies beat the Boeing baby classics certainly on a perseat cost basis and in most cases on even a total hourly cost basis.

That is really quite interesting, because I have seen quite the opposite at times. Very odd.

Did you catch my LAX thread?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
LAXintl
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:17 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):
That is really quite interesting, because I have seen quite the opposite at times. Very odd.

Now if we were going to discuss the A32x versus B737NG data then we would have some real fine hairs to split.

But as far as the B737 classics, two things work against them, 1)fuel burn/cost, and 2)ever increasing maintenance cost, particularly for the airframes.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 35):
But as far as the B737 classics, two things work against them, 1)fuel burn/cost, and 2)ever increasing maintenance cost, particularly for the airframes.

The second one is certainly true today, but when you compared them when they were both new, I believe that the 737 classics did have better operating economics on short haul flights. The numbers that you produced I am sure are very accurate now, but they are comparing much older planes to new ones. If you compare ones of the same age, then I don't think the difference would be as big. And that is what would happen when an airline would be buying them new like when UA made the switch in the early 90s.

So I believe from what I have heard (although I have never seen the numbers), but on short flights the lighter 737 classics are more efficient in a fair comparison.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
egnr
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RE: UA And 737-700's?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:06 am

I have heard several times that United's decision to go with the A320 family rather than the 737 classic models spurred Boeing on to develop the 737NG family. So if United had not gone for the A320, the 737NG may have arrived to the market much later than it did.

Both the B737 family and A320 family are fantastic products, with very similar capabilities. The competition between the two manufacturers to offer the better product benfits airlines and passengers.

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 6):
Because United is an American company, and Airbus is, well...not.

United selected the aircraft that best met its needs at that time. United is no stranger to 'non-American' aircraft... the French Sud-Aviation Caravelle, the Canadian Bombardier CRJ series , the British Vickers Viscount...

Quoting Socal (Reply 23):
Airbus can't match the performance of the new 737's thats why............

True, the B737NG does fly faster and higher than the competing Airbus products. There is not much between them in terms of range. Sales performance (at least in 2005) is/was another matter.   

However, the B737NG was not available at the time United placed the A320 order...

From the aircraft data section on this site: "However the 737-400 does face stiff competition from the similar size Airbus A320, which has higher levels of technology, longer range and is faster (but is also heavier)."

Both the B734 and A320 entered service in 1988. The B734 was superseded by the B738 in 1998 - only 10 years on from the B734. The A320 has continued relatively unchanged (the only real change was the dropping of the -100 model after only 20-something frames) from 1988 to today - a damned impressive achievement in the face of stiff competition.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 30):
It should be no shock that the company that owns Pratt & Whitney has the same name as United Airlines and that United Airlines is a loyal Pratt & Whitney customer and is pretty loyal to Boeing as well.

Interestingly, United chose the IAE V2500 powerplant for their A320 family aircraft orders, ahead of the GE/Snecma CFM56 9the only choice on the B737 classic & NG). Was this due to Pratt & Whitney owning 32.5% of IAE?

At this time, it would not make much sense for United to place an order for the 737NG family. It would mean introducing a new fleet type of an aircraft that will be replaced in 2012-2013.

If more narrow body aircraft are required, United will add A320 family aircraft instead, even though that product will also be replaced around the same time as Boeing replaces the 737.

[Edited 2006-03-31 18:11:31]
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?

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