phuebner
Posts: 240
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Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:51 pm

I just recently found out that Frank Lorenzo and Carl Icahn were blacklisted from ever operating an airline again. How about that?
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DLKAPA
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:56 pm

Blacklisted from operating, but from what I heard Lorenzo still enjoys rather cushy flight benefits on CO.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
jetdeltamsy
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:58 pm

I don't know about Icahn, but Lorenzo was deemed by an act of Congress to be incompetent at running an airline.

He is forever banned from the business.

The prick ruined a lot of lives. I can't imagine he'd ever show his face on any Continental flight, free seat or not.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
GSPITNL
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:59 pm

As far as im concerned that is the best thing for these 2 people. They are sick persons who like to see airlines fumble and fall. SICK!!!

I think CO should kick Lorenzo's A$$ off the flights and make him buy freakin tickets!
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
 
thomasphoto60
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:08 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 2):
I don't know about Icahn, but Lorenzo was deemed by an act of Congress to be incompetent at running an airline.

I knew that he was banned (I thought it was a banishment by the industry itself), but how much of a menace to a given industry does one have to be to have Congress step in and make it the law of the land?

Indeed there is likely a special place in Hell for Ican, Lorenzo

Simply amazing,

Thomas
"Show me the Braniffs"
 
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LTU932
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:08 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 2):
The prick ruined a lot of lives. I can't imagine he'd ever show his face on any Continental flight, free seat or not.

I recall that Frank Lorenzo was actually on board CO's inaugural flight EWR-HKG, and in Business Class.

Quoting GSPITNL (Reply 3):
I think CO should kick Lorenzo's A$$ off the flights and make him buy freakin tickets!

Or just have him non-rev in cattle class or in the cargohold.  Wink

I have to agree about Frank Lorenzo. From what I've heard, the guy has done nothing but damage the aviation industry with his involvement at EA and CO most of all. For me, he should just be banned from flying forever.
 
GSPITNL
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 5):
I have to agree about Frank Lorenzo. From what I've heard, the guy has done nothing but damage the aviation industry with his involvement at EA and CO most of all. For me, he should just be banned from flying forever.

Props to you mate! I agree 100% with that statement! Frank Lorenzo was nothing but a F&$K up from the day he was born! Nothing good came from anything he has done in thie industry! Worse yet, everything he has done, has hurt the industry badly!
Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:29 pm

Does anyone know where he resides? I have heard that he lives on a ranch in New Mexico and I have also heard that he is still in Houston.
Personally, I despise what he did with CO & EA, but there ARE people out there who look at him with great respect!
And I found that to be just amazing!
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
MrMcCoy
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:43 pm

He blew it, no doubt about it. Frank is a scourge on the airline industry, but don't think for a second that given the chance that someone else in his position would do the same thing.. this world is chock full of scumbags.
It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
 
letsgetwet
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:10 pm

Dispite all the bad feelings toward him, Frank Lorenzo regularly (and often) takes advantage of his non-rev in B/F, benefits with CO. But from what I've been, told refuses meals.
 
highguy76
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:44 pm

I had he (Lorenzo) and his wife on a flight a few weeks ago. They sat in BFirst, and believe it or not ate a full meal.
It took every ounce of restraint I had not to (oopps) spill hot coffee in his lap (which has happened more than once on CO flights.) I remained professional through the flight, and the Lorenzos were cordial.
Highguy76
 
UAL#1fan
Posts: 86
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:42 am

At least Continental survived the bankruptcies. It seems to me that he caused more damage at Eastern, basically taking a prosperous carrier from the Frank Borman days and running it into the ground.

He will forever be the archnemesis of any airline union anywhere.
United Air Lines -Mainliners Coast to Coast
 
apodino
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:45 am

Doug Steenland is well on his way to joining Lorenzo and Icahn in my opinion.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:54 am

Quoting Highguy76 (Reply 10):
basically taking a prosperous carrier from the Frank Borman days and running it into the ground.

At the time Frank came to Eastern, it was no where near being a "prosperous" carrier.

Quoting Highguy76 (Reply 10):
It took every ounce of restraint I had not to (oopps) spill hot coffee in his lap (which has happened more than once on CO flights.) I remained professional through the flight, and the Lorenzos were cordial.

I did have the opportunity to "spill" some red wine on him on a LGA-BOS flight!  Smile
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jcavinato
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:03 am

Type-Rated, The only people who look at him/them with respect are pure financial types who look at companies as things to manipulate for personal gain. And, the people in them are expendible in order to show short term cost reduction gain to other financial types. There is nothing in these types of people who build, construct, create, or build as value for consumers, citizens, or society as a whole.

Do I sound like I have an opinion on this? It's from decades of observing economies, markets, and businesses.
 
phuebner
Posts: 240
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:09 am

Quoting Apodino (Reply 12):
Doug Steenland is well on his way to joining Lorenzo and Icahn in my opinion

Okay, educate me, who is Doug Steenland?
Remember this, Your Body is a temple Not a pull toy!
 
boeingguy1
Posts: 395
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:13 am

Quoting Phuebner (Reply 15):
Okay, educate me, who is Doug Steenland?

CEO of NWA.
"...Gatwick South!? Id rather crash in Brighton!"
 
AirScoot
Posts: 667
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 9):
But from what I've been, told refuses meals

Do you blame him? I wouldn't either if I were one of the most hated men in aviation history.

Quoting Phuebner (Reply 15):
Okay, educate me, who is Doug Steenland?

CEO Northwest Airlines.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting Phuebner (Reply 15):
Quoting Apodino (Reply 12):
Doug Steenland is well on his way to joining Lorenzo and Icahn in my opinion

Okay, educate me, who is Doug Steenland?

http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/peopl/senior/senior.shtml#steenland
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malaysia
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:23 am

I have a feeling that a new Frank Lorenzo will show up and create an Airline Purge. But this time it will be beneficial and a birth of a new Airline Industry era.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
jcavinato
Posts: 392
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:32 am

I'm not sure a new Lorenzo will show up. What Icaan and Lorenzo did was to go after carriers that had profit margins from the actual flights, but the losses were from the overheads of the businesses and cumbersome processes. They slashed and burned with a barbarian approach that included making everyone in the organiztion feeling like they were absolutely worthless. That was their major sin, IMO.

But, they were after an inherent cash flow that was usually always positive with the carriers. It is more difficult to make that happen in the U.S. airline industry today when the pricing and top line revenue is internet transparent, prices are fluxed continuously, and there isn't a tolerant business traveler who is willing to pay Y class fares in the chance of getting an upgrade. What I notice is the lack of very senior management travelers in first class anymore. They are on private jets, NetJets, and travel in ways that we don't see in the regular terminals anymore.
 
MrMcCoy
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 19):
I have a feeling that a new Frank Lorenzo will show up and create an Airline Purge. But this time it will be beneficial and a birth of a new Airline Industry era.

Right along with the moon turning blue, flying swine, and the nether-regions of the earth freezing over.  Smile
It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
 
latinaviation
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:20 am

He now runs a Houston-based private equity firm called Savoy Capital.
 
phuebner
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:09 am

I do understand that he has attempted to get back into the industry a few times and was turned down.
Remember this, Your Body is a temple Not a pull toy!
 
Pope
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:20 am

can anyone point me to the act of Congress that blacklisted Lorenzo?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
PGV
Posts: 120
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:20 am

Quoting Phuebner (Reply 23):
I do understand that he has attempted to get back into the industry a few times and was turned down.

You ever wanna see ALPA and IAM come out of the weeds like a pack of killer bees...just let Lorenzo even think about starting an airline. They will set up camp at the FAA and on Capitol Hill waging a lobbying campaign like you have never seen...to make sure he never gets past the planning stage. This guy is their worst nightmare because he outsmarted them not once, but twice. Yeah, he's an sob, used bankruptcy as a union-busting tool, ruined lives...but there were thousands of workers who paid years worth of union dues thinking that leaders of labor were protecting their job security and conditions. There's a lot of ex CAL 83 and EAL 85 workers out there that think he isn't the only one that should be banned.
"To hell with a Ferrari...give me a Super 70!"
 
phuebner
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:37 pm

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:23 am

Quoting Pgv (Reply 25):
There's a lot of ex CAL 83 and EAL 85 workers out there that think he isn't the only one that should be banned.

You're right about that, I understand what you're saying fully.
Remember this, Your Body is a temple Not a pull toy!
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:28 am

September 8, 1993, an administrative law judge recommended that DOT deny the application of Friendship Airlines, later renamed ATX, founded by former Texas Air chairman Frank Lorenzo, to operate as an air carrier. Fifty-seven members of Congress wrote Peña, asking DOT to deny his application.

April 5, 1994, DOT rejected Frank Lorenzo’s bid to operate ATX as an air carrier, citing past safety and regulatory compliance problems experienced by airlines he had operated.



http://dotlibrary.dot.gov/Historian/chronology.htm

[Edited 2006-03-30 21:30:06]
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B757capt
Posts: 1308
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:42 am

Please add Robert Brooks. Current owner of PAce/Hooters AIr to this list.
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
atcrick
Posts: 719
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Thomasphoto60 (Reply 4):
Indeed there is likely a special place in Hell for Ican, Lorenzo

No better words have ever been spoken, sir.
natch!!
 
phuebner
Posts: 240
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:25 am

Quoting B757capt (Reply 28):
Please add Robert Brooks

I am curious, why do you say this?
Remember this, Your Body is a temple Not a pull toy!
 
UAL#1fan
Posts: 86
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:17 am

I am amazed he can still fly Continental. After what he did to them in the '80s, if I were a veteran CO employee from that period I'd do my best to restrain myself from punching him in the face. And yet he receives flight benefits on Continental!

Speaking of Carl Icahn, many people at Time Warner have been worried about his growing influence at the company due to his acquisition of a hefty amount of TWX stock.

 stirthepot 
United Air Lines -Mainliners Coast to Coast
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:42 am

In the United States, we have had our share of very wealthy men - Andrew Carnegie, the Rockefellers, J.P. Getty - who for the most part, put some of their money to good use. The public received a hand-up, not a hand-out - institutes of higher learning were endowed, and many great public forums such as Carnegie Hall were created. Their ethics, by today's standards, were horrendous, but at least some good came from them.

Today we are blessed with soulless sociopathic business "grifters" who suck the life out of everything they touch and leave nothing but pain and emptiness in their all-consuming desire for more money. Their desire for a quick buck at all costs in a business they know nothing about should be criminally prosecuted.

As bad as Frank Lorenzo was, he will never be the number one demon - that spot belongs to Carl Icahn. This man not only systematically destroyed TWA and its morale over a painfully long period of time, when he finally got the boot, he not only got a golden parachute, but he set up the infamous Karibu agreement draining TWA of any chance of survival. The only bit of justice we will ever see came when he was unsuccessful with saddling AA with this agreement when they took over TWA.

There are human beings on this earth with no soul. No morals, no scruples, no sense of decency whatsoever. Life is one big monopoly game to them, and "enough" is never enough. To the Frank Lorenzos, the Carl Icahns, the Ken Lays, and all the others, I hope you are reincarnated as a poor uneducated person who scrapes by working for one of your own companies. It would not be revenge - only justice.

And I'm down off my soapbox. Thanks for letting me rant. The incompetencies of so many elected officials and business leaders has made me nauseous today.  vomit 
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:45 am

Quoting Letsgetwet (Reply 9):
But from what I've been, told refuses meals.

I wonder why.......

Quoting Apodino (Reply 12):
Doug Steenland is well on his way to joining Lorenzo and Icahn in my opinion.

 checkmark  You can add Leo Mullin to that list as well. How bad can you F*** up one airline?

Quoting Phuebner (Reply 23):
I do understand that he has attempted to get back into the industry a few times and was turned down.

If he is allowed by some stupid reason, tell him to stay out of CLE  Wink
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:05 am

Quoting Piercey (Reply 33):
You can add Leo Mullin to that list as well. How bad can you F*** up one airline?

Sir, I couldn't have said it better myself. I just pray that Delta has the same outcome that Continental has had after surviving Ch.11.
Regards
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:12 am

Quoting GSPITNL (Reply 3):
I think CO should kick Lorenzo's A$$ off the flights and make him buy freakin tickets!

They can't. He can sue them for it.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
B757capt
Posts: 1308
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:11 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting Phuebner (Reply 30):

Casue he is a great example of how you take a great airline and run it into the ground.
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
boeingguy1
Posts: 395
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:31 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:50 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):



Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):

They can't. He can sue them for it.

True, but... at the ticket desk:
"Lets see... Non-Rev for Mr. Lorenzo... Ah, yes. Here is your reservation! Seat 23B, youre sitting next to an immensly overweight individual named bubba, and on your left is your wife. Have a great flight, and thank you for fucki- flying Continental!"
"...Gatwick South!? Id rather crash in Brighton!"
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:01 pm

Is there room for Stephen Wolf on that list also?
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:13 pm

I don't know.... he wasn't that bad at UA and has reedemed himself outside of Aviation (allthough he did screw up US)
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:22 pm

Question:

Continental was on the verge of bankruptcy prior to the take over by Texas International, in fact, TI was the surviving airline, they chose to use the CO brand. BN had filed ch.11 and shut down, with the logic of the day, that no one would fly on a bankrupt airline.

Without Lorenzo CO most likely would not have survived. Yes, 25 years ago, he broke the back of labour, but he only did what what every major legacy airline has had to do today.

Eastern was at deaths door by the time he came in, I really don't believe anyone could have saved it.

By creating any economically viable workforce, did he not set up Continental for its current success?
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hiflyer
Posts: 1272
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:24 pm

Frankie's training and education was to break unions...his antics with CO forced a rewrite of both bankruptcy and labor laws...but he got away with it. Even though he is 'out' there are more and more followers who apparently still drink the koolaid in regards to unions...maybe a few in the current administration in Washington...also out of Houston...coincidence? sure. of course. whatever you say. grin.
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:32 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 32):
Ken Lays

don't even mention that b******, he cost me my college and flight school money........

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 32):
that spot belongs to Carl Icahn. This man not only systematically destroyed TWA and its morale over a painfully long period of time, when he finally got the boot, he not only got a golden parachute, but he set up the infamous Karibu agreement draining TWA of any chance of survival. The only bit of justice we will ever see came when he was unsuccessful with saddling AA with this agreement when they took over TWA.

Godspeed TWA. At the same time, though, as crazy as it sounds, TWA getting bought out by AA was probably the most humane way to go.

Quoting Boeingguy1 (Reply 37):

"Lets see... Non-Rev for Mr. Lorenzo... Ah, yes. Here is your reservation! Seat 23B, youre sitting next to an immensly overweight individual named bubba, and on your left is your wife. Have a great flight, and thank you for fucki- flying Continental!"

 rotfl  What would be more dangerous: his wife or a bunch of CO employees?

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 40):


Without Lorenzo CO most likely would not have survived. Yes, 25 years ago, he broke the back of labour, but he only did what what every major legacy airline has had to do today.

Eastern was at deaths door by the time he came in, I really don't believe anyone could have saved it.

pass the joint.
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:37 pm

Quoting Piercey (Reply 42):
pass the joint.

Another educated response from a 13 year old
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clipper707
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:55 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:39 pm

Let's not forget ED Acker, The SOB  liar   devil  That killed the greatest airline to ever fly!

( PAN AMERICAN WORLD AIRWAYS )

 mad  Clipper707
The Clippers Gone But Not Forgotten
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:41 pm

Quoting Clipper707 (Reply 44):
Let's not forget ED Acker, The SOB That killed the greatest airline to ever fly!

( PAN AMERICAN WORLD AIRWAYS )

I remember being in HQ during the stike with people outside yelling "jump Acker, Jump"!
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KAUSpilot
Posts: 1659
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RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 40):
By creating any economically viable workforce, did he not set up Continental for its current success?

If Lorenzo did such a great job at Continental, why did they need to declare bankruptcy again in the early 90's? Lorenzo crushed employee morale and left a giant mess for Bethune to come in and clean up a decade later.

Also, Continental survived in large part due to Lorenzo scrapping EAL for CO's benefit. He sold many of EAL's assets to CO, with CO paying the form of "Promissory Notes". I guess Lorenzo never planned to make good on those notes, as he made sure EAL wasn't around to collect on them....
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 43):
Quoting Piercey (Reply 42):
pass the joint.

Another educated response from a 13 year old

I'M 15 and a freshman in HS. I appologize, dear adult, if I said something offensive.

Quoting KAUSpilot (Reply 46):

Also, Continental survived in large part due to Lorenzo scrapping EAL for CO's benefit. He sold many of EAL's assets to CO, with CO paying the form of "Promissory Notes". I guess Lorenzo never planned to make good on those notes, as he made sure EAL wasn't around to collect on them....

 checkmark  He saved CO by doing what he did best - F****** up an airline.

Quoting Clipper707 (Reply 44):
Let's not forget ED Acker, The SOB That killed the greatest airline to ever fly!

( PAN AMERICAN WORLD AIRWAYS )

Agreed. Another toasty spot in Hell reserved.
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 1716
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:13 pm

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 40):
By creating any economically viable workforce, did he not set up Continental for its current success?

Actually, yes. Saviors are often crucified. The job is messy and a lot of people get hurt. Somehow our memories are often only of what we would like for things to be, not what they actually were. If not for Lorenzo there would be no CO today. Period.
 
TWAMD-80
Posts: 962
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:25 am

RE: Frank Lorenzo Blacklisted?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:21 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 32):
As bad as Frank Lorenzo was, he will never be the number one demon - that spot belongs to Carl Icahn. This man not only systematically destroyed TWA and its morale over a painfully long period of time, when he finally got the boot, he not only got a golden parachute, but he set up the infamous Karibu agreement draining TWA of any chance of survival. The only bit of justice we will ever see came when he was unsuccessful with saddling AA with this agreement when they took over TWA.

I couldn't agree more; out of the two, Icahn was definitely the bigger dirtbag. Given the alternatives, I think AA's takeover of TWA was the best option. While it was rocky, I'd rather see this alternative than see the one where that sack of crap Icahn proposed to buy TWA back.

TW
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