kkfla737
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Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:01 pm

The December 15, 1992 Delta timetable lists flights from Orlando to Caracas, San Jose and Guatemala City effective Feb 1 1993. The flights never started and in fact Delta did not begin service (or in the case of Caracas which Delta served from the mid 1950s thru the late 1970s resume service) until 1998. Why did these flights never start? Did DL get cold feet about routing traffic to Latin America via Orlando?
 
fewsolarge
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:48 pm

I don't know the particulars of the examples you cite, but generally Orlando is a victim of ATL in its lack of Delta flights to Latin America.
 
belizexp
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:13 pm

If I can recall right MCO don't have the O/D to support the service that why DL ended FRA and MEX from MCO also.
Belize my home sweet home...
 
kkfla737
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:00 am

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 2):
If I can recall right MCO don't have the O/D to support the service that why DL ended FRA and MEX from MCO also.

United also flew MCO-MEX for a few years while DL was flying it also. Since both pulled the route no US airline has attempted it again.
 
commavia
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:36 am

AA flew MCO-GRU-GIG around 1999-2000. IIRC, the flights lasted only a few months.
 
akjetBlue
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:51 am

I worked with Delta in the late 90s; I too popped the same question about Orlando and Latin America service. Apparently due to upper management changes at the wrong time MCO took a big hit, and missed out on being something of what MIA is to AA.

The plan was to help ATL and take some of the strain that ATL was feeling with so many aircraft and shift some of the connections to MCO. The plan was to start service to Europe and central/South America from MCO, using Orlando as a secondary connection city hence the large new terminal of Airside 4 with FIS in the 80s concourse.

Along with this Comair was to discontinue offering connection service to AirTran and offer just connections for just Delta, to make sure that the new international services were had feeders giving help to making the new international routes profitable.

Enter the new Airside 2 terminal (AKA the LCC terminal), after completion with 30 new gates allowing WN, FL & B6 to expand in rapid succession to multiple destinations. Delta's focus shifted from international markets from MCO to trying to maintain market share on the domestic front (enter failed Delta Express 732s). A rather odd twist of fate now as DL is leaving the domestic competition behind and now making a mad dash for the international profit line. With the Comair pilot strike and 9-11 obviously too many hurtles from Delta not being able to follow through on one project before shifting to another with upper management changes, Delta never got the Latin America services started from Orlando. As we all know it's very difficult to make money on intra Florida runs. About the time I was leaving DL in 2002 OH had started doing more O&D flights (RDU, GSO, Etc) picking up where DL was cutting back DL Express.

With the release of a number of gates back to the Orlando Airport Authority GOAA, I doubt will see MCO turn back into a Hub for Delta and with the exception of the request for the Cancun service from MCO I doubt we will see any future international Delta flights from MCO.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of Airside 4 (the Delta Terminal) GOAA is planning to have ALL gates in MCO become multi use gates. Should be interesting as I’m sure there are more than one or two airlines interested in the gates that Delta has given up in that terminal. Does anyone know what’s become of the 80s concourse? Is this still under Deltas control? What is the status of DL working VS, there was talk that with the outsourcing of Virgin’s counter crew (an absolute deplorable action by the way) that DL may lose the contract to another ground handler.
Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
 
AirScoot
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:54 am

There were flights on both by AM and DL at one point. They also had service to CUN. IIRC DL turned the flights over to AM to operate the services in the late 90's on a codeshare basis. The CUN service was either dropped or went seasonal. MEX is still operated nonstop from MCO by AM.
 
danimarroquin
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:58 am

BOG -MCO
would be a great market for MCO , the colombian community in Orlando is growing pretty fats . also , for all the connections that BOG can ofer to South America .

AV might take advantage of this .
 
AirScoot
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:03 am

I never really understood why DL didn't at least follow through with trying to develop the Brazil market from Orlando. At one point RG and TR were both flying in full from GRU/GIG. The inbound tourist market for Brazil is HUGE in Orlando. The number of times I was in the international terminal watching people waiting to board those flights...

DL codeshared with TR I think on that route. I guess the inbound traffic they're getting from GRU is running through ATL now. Anyone know how much of that traffic backtracks to get back to MCO?
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:25 am

Latin America is a big market and you can’t just dip your toes into the water in the MCO to Latin America market. DL knows that the minute they add a single flight from MCO to Latin America, AA will come down like a ton of bricks on them. If DL wants to turn MCO or any other FLA city into a Latin American gateway, they have to move in with the size and speed to get a serious dent in the market. DL doesn’t have the desire to get into a bloody fight w/ AA over the Florida to Latin America market.

However, DL does carry passengers between Latin America and Florida via ATL. They just are not going to be the preferred airline when you have to fly over Florida and then come back.

The real issue is that DL wants to grow Latin America from NYC. The NYC-Latin America market is equally large but is not owned by a single airline but CO and AA both are significant players. DL will not try to develop Florida-Latin America until it fills out NYC-Latin America. DL’s NYC strategy requires that it develop as much service as it can with its available equipment so Europe and Latin America are easily fair game. Asia could be developed some but they stand a better chance of succeeding in less costly markets first.

Finally, Brazil is a limited entry market for US airlines. DL does not have any available frequencies to develop Brazil any further beyond what they have already announced. And even though Brazil is a big leisure market, it might not be profitable without enough business class passengers which MCO doesn’t necessarily provide.
 
Avianca
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:43 am

Quoting Belizexp (Reply 2):
If I can recall right MCO don't have the O/D to support the service that why DL ended FRA and MEX from MCO also.

didnt the axed the FRA route due to the closing of the FRA-Hub?
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
AirScoot
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:45 am

They axed it around the time they axed Paris. They were the "official airline of Walt Disney World" at the time. I think they were going to try to rely on inbound tourist traffic for those routes to be complimented by feed from elsewhere in the network.
 
luisca
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:53 am

I think MCO can work very well, CM operates sucesfully to MCO, also TA. CMs trafic at MCO is mostly Colombians and Brasilians. Sometimes CM has to fly 2 flights a day to MCO.
But it is tru that it would be a gamble for DL to start service from MCO and they would have to move really fast, for example start service to 6 or 7 countries at the same time with onward connections to other US cities. And pray that this doesnt cannibalize your traffic at ATL. Id rather fly DL PTY-MCO-MIA than fly crAApy direct.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
dartland
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 12):
CM operates sucesfully to MCO, also TA.

Nope, TA does not fly to MCO.
 
midway7
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:15 am

I think the failure of Eastern Airlines in the early 90's may have played a part in this. Keep in mind, in the late 1980's, DL was probably looking for a second hub in the region to relieve ATL. Hence the MCO concept was born.

Unfortunatley, by the time the new airside was built and opened in the early 1990's, EA had folded, and DL had the added facilities in ATL that they needed. The MCO concept was no longer necessary and looked less financially prudent.

Midway 7
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 8):
I never really understood why DL didn't at least follow through with trying to develop the Brazil market from Orlando. At one point RG and TR were both flying in full from GRU/GIG.

Full of tourists flying on low-end fares wanting to visit Mickey Mouse. There's a reason why neither RG nor TR lasted too long in MCO.

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 5):
With the release of a number of gates back to the Orlando Airport Authority GOAA, I doubt will see MCO turn back into a Hub for Delta and with the exception of the request for the Cancun service from MCO I doubt we will see any future international Delta flights from MCO.

Not even CUN will happen, as DL dropped their application soon after 'Wilma'. Out of the three contestants DL/NK/FL, only FL was left, with saturday-only service IIRC.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:49 am

Remember the Eastern Airlines Dream Flight Ride next to the Carousel Of Progress in Tomorrowland at the Magic Kingdom?

What an awesome ride. When Delta became the official airline of Disney, It became Delta Dream Flight.

Those were the days of L1011s, MD 11s, food (although crappy) in coach, and black and white departure screens.

We really have taken a few steps back, huh guys?

PJ
 
AirScoot
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting Dartland (Reply 13):
Nope, TA does not fly to MCO.

TA didn't fly to MCO - LR did.
 
Rookinla
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 17):
TA didn't fly to MCO - LR did.

It doesn't now but it certainly did. And occasionally TA will offer seasonal service for a few weeks...The last such service was in November 2005. TACA operated 8 flights to GUA with a 100% LF. From October to December, Martinair operated 44 flights to SJO with a 99.3% LF. Since we're talking MCO, here are the LF for other routes for the same period...

LGW 82%
MAN 88%
AMS 83%
MEX 81%
PTY 84%
FRA 82%

Would other Int'l routes work from MCO? Who knows...I don't think anybody is lining up to try any time soon...
 
2travel2know
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 18):
Would other Int'l routes work from MCO? Who knows...I don't think anybody is lining up to try any time soon...

Bear in mind Orlando does have another airport which handles UK flights; Aeropostal Venezuela actually flew there too.

About TA/LR in MCO, it was seen as a O/D flight mostly, very few passengers did connect @ MCO and even if TA/LR did provide connecting passengers from their SJO hub (I did it once), it seems the flight never became as popular as CM MCO flight which even gets passengers from EZE and GRU. I can't imagine a 2nd PTY-MCO, but maybe a PTY-TPA in the near future.

IMHO only the U.S. Airline which has the strongest hub in MCO may be able to operate profitable services between a few very well hand-picked Latinamerican destinations and MCO.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
kkfla737
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting Avianca (Reply 10):
didnt the axed the FRA route due to the closing of the FRA-Hub?

Probably, but the MCO-FRA route predated Delta's purchase of PA's FRA operation by over three years.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 15):
Not even CUN will happen, as DL dropped their application soon after 'Wilma'. Out of the three contestants DL/NK/FL, only FL was left, with saturday-only service IIRC.

Does FL ever plan to actually fly this route?
 
Rookinla
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:04 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 19):
Aeropostal Venezuela actually flew there too.

Actually Aeropostal has applied to the DOT to serve MCO again with service to AUA continuing to CCS. Also applied for ATL(don't see that lasting long because of DL). Don't know about this one...Does anybody know how VH loads were on this route the first time around? I was thinking more along the lines of AV in my previous post.



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 19):
IMHO only the U.S. Airline which has the strongest hub in MCO may be able to operate profitable services between a few very well hand-picked Latinamerican destinations and MCO.

I thought at one time that maybe DL could fill the bill...obviously not now! Not one US Airline probably has enough of a presence at MCO to make a US carrier to S/C America viable. Only hope is a foreign carrier...
 
bond007
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:08 pm

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 18):
Quoting AirScoot (Reply 17):
TA didn't fly to MCO - LR did.

It doesn't now but it certainly did. And occasionally TA will offer seasonal service for a few weeks...

They are flying it right now!

Flight 9321 to GUA.

CM are flying B737 to Tocumen.

Martinair 635 to GUA with A320.

AMX 435 MD83 and AMX 437 B737 to Mexico City.

That's about it right now.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
MarkATL
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
AA flew MCO-GRU-GIG around 1999-2000. IIRC, the flights lasted only a few months.


The number of Brazilians at the rat rap is staggering. After the UK they seem to be the largest group foreign visitors. Still the yeilds on this 99% leisure market has to suck wind. If AA was doing it to protect frequencies I could understand though.
"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
 
Rookinla
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:29 pm

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 22):
Flight 9321 to GUA.

Are you sure that this is not codeshare? Maybe CO or AA... TA flight 321 operates MIA-GUA...sounds like a CO Connection puddlejumper on the first half to me...TACA's website does not show MCO as a destination that is bookable.

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 22):
Martinair 635 to GUA with A320.

SJO not GUA...
 
bond007
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:37 pm

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 24):
SJO not GUA...

OOps yes, had that in my mind from the other flight!

Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
carmenlu15
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:41 pm

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 24):
Quoting Bond007 (Reply 22):
Flight 9321 to GUA.

Are you sure that this is not codeshare?

It's likely a charter flight... TA does send charters to MCO from time to time, but there is no scheduled passenger service.

Saludos  airplane 
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:08 pm

Quoting Kkfla737 (Reply 20):
Does FL ever plan to actually fly this route?

No idea, I haven't seen any PR on this in either direction, though saturday-only service should certainly be doable.

As far as DL/Comair goes, have to rewrite my comment, in that they didn't fully drop the application, but put it on extended temporary hold, while they continue to evaluate the progress in Cancun.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:33 pm

Quoting Luisca (Reply 12):
Sometimes CM has to fly 2 flights a day to MCO.

No, they don't. It has never been more than 5x weekly, IIRC.

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 18):
And occasionally TA will offer seasonal service for a few weeks...The last such service was in November 2005. TACA operated 8 flights to GUA with a 100% LF

TA's service to Orlando is strictly charter flights. No seasonal service whatsoever.

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 21):
Actually Aeropostal has applied to the DOT to serve MCO again with service to AUA continuing to CCS.

Aeropostal has not applied with DOT for anything yet. Even though they have announced plans to fly to Orlando, I would not hold my breath. They announce a lot of things that don't happen.
a.
 
Avianca
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:25 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
No, they don't. It has never been more than 5x weekly, IIRC.

correct leaving day

2/3/5/6/7 MCO at 04:25 pm ( in summer time)
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
kkfla737
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:42 am

Quoting AkjetBlue (Reply 5):
Along with this Comair was to discontinue offering connection service to AirTran and offer just connections for just Delta, to make sure that the new international services were had feeders giving help to making the new international routes profitable.

Yeah I remember when OH fed FL at MCO. I believe Delta did not own ComAir in those days which was how it happened.
 
luisca
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
No, they don't. It has never been more than 5x weekly

Its called "extra flight", they add the number 4 to the flight number, CM operates PTY-MCO as flight 328, so the extra flight would be 4328, they leave with a 15 minute difference, they do this during high season and on a need only basis.

They usually do it in december on routes like MIA MCO JFK, etc

I personally have flown on flight 4328 PTY-MCO and on flight 4300 PTY-MIA and have seen both airplanes parked side by side at the destination, my ticket said flight 300 and flight 328, but when I got to the gate they told me I was going on 4300 and 4328.

Again this is only done on a need only basis in high season, hence the use of the word SOMETIMES. I guess I should have clarified
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
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LTU932
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RE: Delta Flights From Orlando To Latin America

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting AirScoot (Reply 17):
TA didn't fly to MCO - LR did.

And previously, DE operated FRA-SJO through MCO on what I believe were flights 1050/1051 and 5050/5051, before it got re-routed through HAV (to avoid US Visa restrictions for non-Visa Waiver passengers) as 1184/1185 and 4184/4185. And before MP wetleased aircraft for SJO-US service, they operated AMS-SJO through MCO as well as flight 635/636, along with their AMS-SJO service through MIA.

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