boeingbus
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Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:50 pm

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=4534

"Industry sources have suggested that the GECAS and ILFC orders contain caveats requiring Airbus to meet certain order and customer milestones."

"Key launch customer Qatar Airways, which announced a commitment in Paris to order 60 A350 family aircraft (ATWOnline, June 14, 2005), still has not inked the deal and some suggest that its order is conditional on Emirates signing up as well."

Why would they put a condition based on another airlines purchase? Very odd...
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Stitch
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:55 pm

I believe QR is committed to the A350 for at least two reasons, and probably more.

First, they appear to want to remain an all-Airbus fleet and look to cancel their 773ER MoU in favor of the A340-600HGW (and in some irony, they are going to take EK's deferred planes). So an A350 is going to fit them better from a crew perspective.

Also, since they want 60 planes, the 787 is not going to be an option for them until around 2012, and should SQ and/or EK commit to the 787 in large quantities, they may be looking at 2013 or later for deliveries.
 
boeingbus
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
First, they appear to want to remain an all-Airbus fleet

I understand this... but why is the A350 order on condition of what Emirates does? If you want to remain all Airbus you would do so no matter what. I wonder if Qatar also wants the 787-10.

Hmm... is Boeing going to hijak the A350 with the 787-10?

This would be a tremendous blow!
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DAYflyer
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
A340-600HGW (and in some irony, they are going to take EK's deferred planes)



Perhaps this is the link to the EK order referred to in the original post??
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leelaw
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:59 pm

Quoting BoeingBus (Thread starter):
Why would they put a condition based on another airlines purchase? Very odd..



Concern about low residual values down the road. They're trying to satisfy customer demand for early delivery slots, while simultaeously protecting against being saddled with an albatross.
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atmx2000
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:05 am

The one year anniversary of the order announcement is coming up in under three months. It will be interesting to see what the status of QR's A350 and 777 orders are at that time.
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474218
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:07 am

According to Akbar Al Baker Qatar's Chief Executive in a interview in the March 2006 issue of Airline Business magazine, Qatar has a letter on intent to purchase 60 A350's. But they have not signed a firm order because Airbus is not ready yet.

Al Baker said " We have not signed the purchase agreement with Airbus because they have not crystallized the specification of the airplane and we also have requirements for the performance which they have not come back to us with. The aircraft is still changing, but we expect Airbus to come up with the solution soon."

It seems that Qatar wants to buy the A350 but Airbus is not in the position to sell, at least at the time the article was written. Now GECAS and ILFC are putting pressure on Airbus to redesign A350, which may cause an even further delay.
 
georgiabill
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:10 am

QR has no reason not to buy the A350. They believe it is the best plane for them as they continue their growth. Just continuing on their experience flying Airbus equipment is a economic savings.
 
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 7):
QR has no reason not to buy the A350. They believe it is the best plane for them as they continue their growth. Just continuing on their experience flying Airbus equipment is a economic savings.

If you plan on buying 60 planes from a single family, there significantly less advantage in having commonality with the rest of the fleet.
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Revelation
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:25 am

Ah, the shifting sands of these Middle Eastern aircraft deals!
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tigerotor77w
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Thread starter):
"Key launch customer Qatar Airways, which announced a commitment in Paris to order 60 A350 family aircraft (ATWOnline, June 14, 2005), still has not inked the deal and some suggest that its order is conditional on Emirates signing up as well."

I know you quoted a media source, so I'm not arguing with YOU, but I also tend to think nothing of it. The 777s haven't been firmed, so why should the A350s? In fact, we've seen that Qatar may actually go for the A346s instead... so once that deal is finalized, I'd bet that's when the A350 goes through as well.
 
9252fly
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:07 am

Does anyone know if QR is holding some of the initial delivery slots with refundable deposits for the 787 and has yet to release them? There must be still a number of airlines that still hold those slots and have yet to place a firm order or drop them in return for a refund of the deposit.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:12 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 11):
Does anyone know if QR is holding some of the initial delivery slots with refundable deposits for the 787 and has yet to release them?

When QR chose the A350, they released their 60 787 slots as they could do so without penalty.

Boeing then held them in reserve for QF, which formally took them when they signed the order yesterday.
 
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 8):

If you plan on buying 60 planes from a single family, there significantly less advantage in having commonality with the rest of the fleet.

That assumes the rest of the fleet is also at least 50 to 60 aircraft per type.
 
9252fly
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:25 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
When QR chose the A350, they released their 60 787 slots as they could do so without penalty.

Boeing then held them in reserve for QF, which formally took them when they signed the order yesterday.

Very interesting! It seems QR have boxed themselves into a corner with Airbus and have lost the opportunity to acquire the 787 with early delivery slots. If they are still mulling the idea of ordering the 787,they have made a mistake in giving up those slots,then again,if they've decided to order the A350 because they don't want the 787,what's taking them so long to firm their order for the A350?
 
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
and look to cancel their 773ER MoU


They never signed an MOU with Boeing, so somewhat difficult to cancel it no?

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 5):
It will be interesting to see what the status of QR's A350 and 777 orders are at that time.

They signed nothing for 777s. They have signed an MOU for precisely 60 A350s however. Make of that what you will. wink 
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EI321
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 8):
If you plan on buying 60 planes from a single family, there significantly less advantage in having commonality with the rest of the fleet.

Yes I think the commonality agrument begins to dissapear around a 30 strong fleet. Other factors are importamt like flexability (The 3 sizes of 787 should bring great flexability in a large fleet)

[Edited 2006-03-30 21:52:50]
 
787engineer
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):

Very interesting! It seems QR have boxed themselves into a corner with Airbus and have lost the opportunity to acquire the 787 with early delivery slots. If they are still mulling the idea of ordering the 787,they have made a mistake in giving up those slots,then again,if they've decided to order the A350 because they don't want the 787,what's taking them so long to firm their order for the A350?

They may be waiting to see how much Boeing will increase production rate. Boeing is seriously looking into this to help accomodate more customers, many of which are starting back off and are willing to wait since they can't get their new 787 until 2010-2011 anyways.
 
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:49 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):
Very interesting! It seems QR have boxed themselves into a corner with Airbus and have lost the opportunity to acquire the 787 with early delivery slots.

Well they did hold slots on the 787 and then turned it down so its not like they got themselves in this situation by accident.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:54 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
Well they did hold slots on the 787 and then turned it down so its not like they got themselves in this situation by accident.

IMO, you're correct. Mr. Al Baker has no intention of renouncing this order to go "hat in hand" to Boeing. Could be this alleged linkage to EK was leaked in order to turn the screws more on price and other concessions.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
zvezda
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):

Boeing then held them in reserve for QF

For QF, for SQ, for BA, for LH, et al.
 
manni
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):
they have made a mistake in giving up those slots,then again,if they've decided to order the A350 because they don't want the 787,what's taking them so long to firm their order for the A350?

QR has given up those slots because they considered the A350 the better aircraft for their needs. If they would have gone with the 787, this would have been the mistake, not the other way around.

As for your question, why it takes them so long. Who better than Mr. Al Baker himself would know the answer?

Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
Al Baker said " We have not signed the purchase agreement with Airbus because they have not crystallized the specification of the airplane and we also have requirements for the performance which they have not come back to us with. The aircraft is still changing, but we expect Airbus to come up with the solution soon."



Quoting BoeingBus (Thread starter):
"Key launch customer Qatar Airways, which announced a commitment in Paris to order 60 A350 family aircraft (ATWOnline, June 14, 2005), still has not inked the deal and some suggest that its order is conditional on Emirates signing up as well."

Why would they put a condition based on another airlines purchase? Very odd...

Some suggest, is very vague and looks more like speculation than anything else. EK's large 777 purchase didn't make QR commiting to theirs either.
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474218
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:44 am

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 7):
QR has no reason not to buy the A350. They believe it is the best plane for them as they continue their growth. Just continuing on their experience flying Airbus equipment is a economic savings.

I am not so sure QR agrees the A350 is the best for them, because as Al Baker said, "we also have requirements for performance which they have not come back with." So Airbus has not yet agreed they they will meet QR's requirements.
 
leelaw
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:46 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 21):
Quoting BoeingBus (Thread starter):
"Key launch customer Qatar Airways, which announced a commitment in Paris to order 60 A350 family aircraft (ATWOnline, June 14, 2005), still has not inked the deal and some suggest that its order is conditional on Emirates signing up as well."

Why would they put a condition based on another airlines purchase? Very odd...

Some suggest, is very vague and looks more like speculation than anything else. EK's large 777 purchase didn't make QR commiting to theirs either.

I'm not sure I understand your point, I thought the gravamen of the article was about:

Quoting BoeingBus (Thread starter):
"Industry sources have suggested that the GECAS and ILFC orders contain caveats requiring Airbus to meet certain order and customer milestones."


I'm a little surprised nobody has picked up on this item at the end of the article so far:

"Sources in London told ATWOnline yesterday that Udvar-Hazy's comments in Orlando may have been promoted by those within Airbus who desire an all-new aircraft to combat not only the Dreamliner but the 777, which eclipsed the A340 family last year."

[Edited 2006-03-31 04:03:07]
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dalecary
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:00 pm

From my understanding QR are very interested in the 787-10. If EK order the -10(as expected), then I wouldn't be surprised to see QR follow. They gave up early slots on the 788, when the -10 didn't exist. It is a totally different ballgame now. I'm sure QR would have taken notes from the comments of Udvar-Hazy this week!!!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 15):
They never signed an MOU with Boeing, so somewhat difficult to cancel it no?

Then they cancelled the Press Release they issued last year in Paris stating they wanted 20 777-300ERs.  Smile
 
SKA380
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:06 pm

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 2):
Hmm... is Boeing going to hijak the A350 with the 787-10?

This would be a tremendous blow!

Hmmm.... wishful thinking on some people on here's part...  Yeah sure


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SONICDANCE
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:14 pm

If, just if, A350 changes the spec to include a larger fuselage and extend the family from the current A350-800 all the way to A340-600, then it will be really interesting to see what's going on... But if that happens, we might probably see 787-11X... (But sad for aviation lovers coz we might only see 3 or even 2 types from each manufacturer... Boeing, 737RS and 787 & for Airbus, A320NG, A350, A380???)

Anyway if Qatar could cancel that 20 777-300ER MoU, then I won't be surprised that they would do the same to the A350, especially as both Boeing and Airbus are "cooking" something new right in front of the market anyway...
 
zvezda
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:29 pm

Quoting SONICDANCE (Reply 27):
But sad for aviation lovers coz we might only see 3 or even 2 types from each manufacturer... Boeing, 737RS and 787 & for Airbus, A320NG, A350, A380???

If Boeing were producing a B787-11X and Airbus an A350 with a larger cross section the length of the A340-600 with similar CASM, then the number of WhaleJets already ordered would suffice to meet worldwide demand.

Airbus and Boeing would have a wonderful challenge producing 350-500 seat airliners with CASM dramatically lower than a B787-11X. If they can pull that off, we may see $500 fares for LHR-SYD-LHR with no stops by 2020.
 
WINGS
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:38 pm

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):

Very interesting! It seems QR have boxed themselves into a corner with Airbus and have lost the opportunity to acquire the 787 with early delivery slots

Really? From what I understand they are exactly were they want to be.

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):
If they are still mulling the idea of ordering the 787,they have made a mistake in giving up those slots,

What makes you think this? Just because they haven't signed yet?

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):
,what's taking them so long to firm their order for the A350?

Simple. They are waiting for the final freeze from Airbus. After all they are ordering 60 of them. I'm sure they want to see the A350 project meeting all of it's needs.

I'm sure Airbus won't disappoint as they know how important this order is for the A350 project.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 15):

They signed nothing for 777s. They have signed an MOU for precisely 60 A350s however. Make of that what you will.

That's correct Scbriml, They even didn't get that far with the B777 order.

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 24):
From my understanding QR are very interested in the 787-10. If EK order the -10(as expected), then I wouldn't be surprised to see QR follow. They gave up early slots on the 788, when the -10 didn't exist. It is a totally different ballgame now. I'm sure QR would have taken notes from the comments of Udvar-Hazy this week!!!

Yes although Airbus have already stated a possible launch of an A350-900HGW to combat it.

I would not also be too surprised to hear that latter on in the project an eventual A350-1000 will be offered.

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Thorben
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:50 pm

I really like QR. First they are about to order the 787, then they dump that for the A350. In compensation they go for the 777 (probably mainly because of the 777F), but they dump that in favor of the A340 (and probably the A332F.) All that with the country being a close friend of the US.

They also fly to TXL, a thing that Emirates has not managed yet.
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Stitch
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:13 am

If operating an all-Airbus fleet, and perhaps doing so at "favorable" (not "too cheap", not "below cost", not "dumped") rates, gives QR what they feel to be an advantage against EK's aircraft juggernaut, then I imagine that is the path they choose to follow.

The 77W and 787 may be more efficient, but if QR is saving tens, or even hundreds, of millions (lower aircraft acquisition costs, lower crew costs, lower spares costs, lower landing fees, less capacity to better control fares, whathaveyou) then that pays for a lot of fuel.  Wink
 
787engineer
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting SONICDANCE (Reply 27):
If, just if, A350 changes the spec to include a larger fuselage and extend the family from the current A350-800 all the way to A340-600, then it will be really interesting to see what's going on...

Well there's really no chance of getting a larger cross section unless they want to postpone EIS for another 1-2 years (basically it isn't going to happen). If Airbus decides to expand the A350 line up to A340-600 size, it'll require some very big engines and it will be interesting to see how well it fits under that wing.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 30):
I really like QR. First they are about to order the 787, then they dump that for the A350. In compensation they go for the 777 (probably mainly because of the 777F), but they dump that in favor of the A340 (and probably the A332F.) All that with the country being a close friend of the US.

Now, will you hate QR with a vengence if they dump both their A350s and A340s and jump to 787s and 777s? I find it disappointing that how much you like an airline depends on whose planes they buy. Besides why does it matter that Qatar is a close friend of the US? If all airlines bought planes with whichever country they had closer ties too, it would be a very boring world indeed (and AF wouldn't have all those nice 777s ).

[Edited 2006-03-31 17:31:50]
 
airfrnt
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:56 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):

Al Baker said " We have not signed the purchase agreement with Airbus because they have not crystallized the specification of the airplane and we also have requirements for the performance which they have not come back to us with. The aircraft is still changing, but we expect Airbus to come up with the solution soon."

Change the order of the sentences and you will get a good handle on this:

We also have requirements for the performance which they have not come back to us with.We have not signed the purchase agreement with Airbus because they have not crystallized the specification of the airplane.

Makes it pretty clear no?
 
Thorben
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:04 am

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 32):
Now, will you hate QR with a vengence if they dump both their A350s and A340s and jump to 787s and 777s?

They won't do that.

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 32):
I find it disappointing that how much you like an airline depends on whose planes they buy.

OK

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 32):
Besides why does it matter that Qatar is a close friend of the US?

It matters because the friends of the US tell their state-run carriers to buy Boeing (see Air India). I like those that buy the better planes, not the one they're told to buy.

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 32):
If all airlines bought planes with whichever country they had closer ties too, it would be a very boring world indeed (and AF wouldn't have all those nice 777s ).

AF is independent. If all airlines in the world were like that, I would be concerned about Boeing.
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zvezda
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 34):
If all airlines in the world were like that, I would be concerned about Boeing.

If all airlines in the world bought the better airplane, without regard to political pressure, then both Airbus and Boeing would have to work harder for sales. Competition would be more intense, innovation and progress would come more rapidly, prices would be lower, and passengers would benefit all around.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
Perhaps this is the link to the EK order referred to in the original post??

Perhaps. I still recall EK is very interested in the A340-600E, so maybe that could also be an influencing factor.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 30):
In compensation they go for the 777 (probably mainly because of the 777F), but they dump that in favor of the A340 (and probably the A332F.)

I read somewhere that QR is also tentatively interested in an A340-500F, if Airbus decides to make the -500 a freighter.
 
Thorben
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 36):
I read somewhere that QR is also tentatively interested in an A340-500F, if Airbus decides to make the -500 a freighter.

I read they are going to make an A332 freighter. I doubt they would make that one AND an A345 freighter.

My guess was always that QR only went for the 777 because of the 777F. Airbus of course should ask itself why they didn't come up with a replacement for the A306F earlier, but QR might have been the deciding factor. Anyway, the A332F will be a very good cargo plane.
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BoomBoom
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 29):
Simple. They are waiting for the final freeze from Airbus. After all they are ordering 60 of them. I'm sure they want to see the A350 project meeting all of it's needs.

Wasn't the design frozen in January?

Quote:
However, she said Airbus has no plans to redesign the A350. Plans for the aircraft's design were finalized in January, "and that's the aircraft we are going to build," she says.
http://businessweek.com/globalbiz/co...8.htm
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zvezda
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 36):
I read somewhere that QR is also tentatively interested in an A340-500F, if Airbus decides to make the -500 a freighter.

No chance. The A340-500 is not even remotely suitable to being a freighter. It's OEW is way too high. The A330-200 would make a good freighter.
 
flyinghippo
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 34):
It matters because the friends of the US tell their state-run carriers to buy Boeing (see Air India). I like those that buy the better planes, not the one they're told to buy.

Is IC independent airline? Didn't they order a bunch of Airbuses last year?
 
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LTU932
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 40):
Is IC independent airline? Didn't they order a bunch of Airbuses last year?

No, they're also state owned. I believe it took the Indian Parliament many years to actually approve the order.
 
Thorben
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 40):
Is IC independent airline? Didn't they order a bunch of Airbuses last year?

Even the desire of the Indians to get along with the USA (which they did when Bush was there recently) was not strong enough to make them go for the 737. They needed to keep a balance there, needed to make the Europeans happy as well. IC is already a big A32X operator, makes it suitable to go for more.
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norcal
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RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 34):
AF is independent. If all airlines in the world were like that, I would be concerned about Boeing.

haha, that is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read on here from either side.

I would like to you to prove for example how the A340 is better than the 777 series. I think the order books speak for themselves on the matter. When you have a 10:1 ratio there is no explanation other than the 777 is better.

The A320 is marginally better than the 737, it makes sense for new carriers to order it because of the wider cabin. However when you stack these two aircraft up side to side there is really no difference in the performance. They are both competitive with each other. The 737 though old, is holding itself well enough against the A320 with the A320 claiming a 3:2 advantage.

We have seen the 787 start to collect a lot of momentum against the A350. The order rate for the 787 increased drastically last year after the airlines saw what Airbus was offering with the A350. Now the two largest leasing companies in the world are telling Airbus to redo the A350. Clearly in their eyes they have picked out a favorite (hint it isn't the A350)

747 vs A380, the A380 will have the advantage in the long run (pax side with the A380-900 and other future versions) since it is the newer design. However the 747-8I will work greatly for carriers who don't need a 500+ seat a/c (BA comes to mind). The 747-8F will be the main player and has already proved itself pretty successful against the A380F. These orders might not be "glamorous" like and pax order, but they will still make Boeing a lot of money.

Both manufacturers make good a/c, so it is downright ignorant of you to say that Boeing would be in trouble if they couldn't "force airlines to buy their planes." It is just as ignorant as someone who says that Airbus gives their planes away.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 34):
It matters because the friends of the US tell their state-run carriers to buy Boeing (see Air India). I like those that buy the better planes, not the one they're told to buy.

Politics have always been apart of a/c orders, deal with it.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4367
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 14):
Very interesting! It seems QR have boxed themselves into a corner with Airbus and have lost the opportunity to acquire the 787 with early delivery slots

Not really if QR decides to lease B 787s from leasing companies who have ordered the B 787s such as ILFC who have ordered 20 of the type.

QR can reserve a few of those from ILFC which would be delivered to ILFC by 2008-10 and in the meantime place a big order which would guarantee delivery by 2011-12 via mass/fast paced production of the aircraft.
 
BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:39 am

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 44):
QR can reserve a few of those from ILFC

What if they need more than a few?
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
flyinghippo
Posts: 690
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 am

RE: Could Airbus Lose The Qatar A350 Order?

Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting Thorben (Reply 34):
It matters because the friends of the US tell their state-run carriers to buy Boeing (see Air India). I like those that buy the better planes, not the one they're told to buy.



Quoting Thorben (Reply 42):
Even the desire of the Indians to get along with the USA (which they did when Bush was there recently) was not strong enough to make them go for the 737. They needed to keep a balance there, needed to make the Europeans happy as well. IC is already a big A32X operator, makes it suitable to go for more.

So... Are you saying that while Air India (State owned) ordered Boeing because of politics, IC (own by the same state) ordered Airbus because they want to please Europe as well. Then you MUST HATE IC because they ordered the Airbuses based on politics, but not their actual needs.

Quoting NorCal (Reply 43):
I would like to you to prove for example how the A340 is better than the 777 series. I think the order books speak for themselves on the matter. When you have a 10:1 ratio there is no explanation other than the 777 is better.

If I may, I would like to take a wild guess on what Thorben will have to say about this:

"Boeing is a prestige company, they only aircrafts at dirt cheap prices to prestige airlines to grab market share. And all the 777 orders (AC, CX, EK, EY, BR, JL, NH, SQ, BA, AF, etc etc...) were because Boeing and the US forced the governments of those airlines to order from Boeing... etc etc etc..."

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