jacobin777
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Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:58 am

found this short snippet on Bloomberg news..

bit of a slap in the face...but it's certainly better than an outright cancel..

"Emirates to Delay $4.2 Bln Airbus Order a `Few Years' (Update1)
March 30, 2006 13:28 EST -- Emirates, the biggest Arab airline, delayed a $4.2 billion Airbus SAS order for 20 planes to give the European aircraft-maker time to develop a better version of the jet, which is losing sales to a competing Boeing Co. model."

[Edited 2006-03-31 03:59:37]
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dalecary
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:01 pm

But it will eventually be a cancellation IMO.
 
MarkATL
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:03 pm

This doesn't look good for Airbus. However, just as the A320 forced Boeing to build the 737NG and the A330 made Boeing wake up to the fact that the 767 was done. The 787 is going to get Airbus to come up with something kick ass that I believe will truely rival or excede the 787. Although the A350 in its current phase of developement doesn't seem to be it......yet.

[Edited 2006-03-31 04:28:03]
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BA
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:06 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Thread starter):
Emirates, the biggest Arab airline

Actually, that would be Saudi Arabian Airlines when it comes to number of aircraft.

[Edited 2006-03-31 04:15:42]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 1):
But it will eventually be a cancellation IMO.

EK probably already have deposits which they might lose, so its better for them to wait it out........

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 2):
. The 787 is going to get Airbus to come up with something kick ass that I believe wil truely rival or excede the 787.

even with the recent news about the A350, right now, it doesn't seem Airbus is going to change the A350...maybe they will by summer..

as many have said, it will cost extra billions of dollars and a few extra years...

also, for now, Airbus doesn't believe in going CFRP as much as Boeing does...
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aa1818
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 pm

Quoting BA (Reply 3):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Thread starter):
Emirates, the biggest Arab airline

Actually, that would be Saudi Arabian Airlines when it comes to number of aircraft.

...but it's probably based on revenue per seat mile, or seats provided, or capital something blah blah blah. I can't see how anyone can dispute that EK is the largest Arab airline. Sorry don't mean to nit pick!!

Also I can see this order being cancelled eventually.....EK will probably eventually operate A350/ 787, 777, A380. Seems very logical and a nice dynamic fleet

AA1818
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:55 pm

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 2):
This doesn't look good for Airbus.

Actually, it doesn't look good for Boeing, as QR looks to cancel their intent to order 20 777-300ERs and instead take the A340-600HGW's EK is now deferring, instead.
 
flying-b773
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:09 pm

Is EK still taking delivery of other aircrafts from boeing? maybe they are finally trying to control growth by stopping delivery...
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OldAeroGuy
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:11 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Actually, it doesn't look good for Boeing, as QR looks to cancel their intent to order 20 777-300ERs and instead take the A340-600HGW's EK is now deferring, instead.

Yes, but Boeing never booked the 777's that QR was talking about. It looks pretty neutral for both manufacturers.
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jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:32 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Actually, it doesn't look good for Boeing, as QR looks to cancel their intent to order 20 777-300ERs and instead take the A340-600HGW's EK is now deferring, instead.

I think EK will possibly use their deposit money (if they have deposited money) for a new generation Airbus plane....or maybe they will keep it "on the books" for a while...
"Up the Irons!"
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:35 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 1):
But it will eventually be a cancellation IMO.

My guess is that they will leverage these orders into the A380-900 once it's available.

But that's just me.
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Thorben
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:58 pm

The question now is: Who will take the delivery slots? Maybe we can see the A346 in one or two completely new liveries.
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
Tifoso
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:05 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 11):
The question now is: Who will take the delivery slots?

That's very easy if you look at what's been happening recently.

QR is no longer interested in an order of "at least 20" 777s.
EK defers their A346s
QR recently signed a deal with Airbus. (according to Kaneporta1 in another thread)

 Smile
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:08 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
Quoting Dalecary (Reply 1):
But it will eventually be a cancellation IMO.

EK probably already have deposits which they might lose, so its better for them to wait it out........

It may well turn out to be a cancellation but with regards to the deposits I have no doubt that those monies would easily be transferable to any other orders EK retains with Airbus. That could also include parts, training or indeed an order for another model.

EK would be in a strong position to leverage this to that effect. So waiting it out does appear to be the best option at this stage as pointed out by Jacobin777.

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Thorben
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:09 pm

All QR? Would be nice, but I had hoped to see something like Mexicana.
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 8):
Yes, but Boeing never booked the 777's that QR was talking about. It looks pretty neutral for both manufacturers.

I agree financially it doesn't affect Boeing directly, but many folks like to bring up the "prestige" of a plane due to it's orders. So Boeing, having looked to have "secured" a large 773ER order and then "losing" it to the A340 could be seen by some as a blow to Boeing's "prestige" and a "boost" to Airbus', just as when QR decided against the 787 in favor of the A350.

Again, in the end that allowed Boeing to land the QF order, and QF's "prestige" is considered by many to be more then QR's, so I suppose if Boeing can sell those 20 773ERs to SQ or LH or BA then perhaps it will end up being a "boost" for Boeing's image...
 
Thorben
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
I agree financially it doesn't affect Boeing directly, but many folks like to bring up the "prestige" of a plane due to it's orders. So Boeing, having looked to have "secured" a large 773ER order and then "losing" it to the A340 could be seen by some as a blow to Boeing's "prestige" and a "boost" to Airbus', just as when QR decided against the 787 in favor of the A350.

Again, in the end that allowed Boeing to land the QF order, and QF's "prestige" is considered by many to be more then QR's, so I suppose if Boeing can sell those 20 773ERs to SQ or LH or BA then perhaps it will end up being a "boost" for Boeing's image...

That's the problem with you guys, you only care about "prestige". I think the 77W can be called a "horrible failure" after one serious company dumped them for the far superior Airbus product.  sarcastic 

Anyway, I'll eat a hat if Boeing sells the slots for QR to LH.
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jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting Flying-B773 (Reply 7):
Is EK still taking delivery of other aircrafts from boeing?

yep..they aren't going to be halting any deliveriees of their 777's.. Smile
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TIA
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:02 am

So pretty much EK is saying that they are not interested in the A346HGW anymore, but they are willing to wait and see what comes off the A346E.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:55 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
I think EK will possibly use their deposit money (if they have deposited money) for a new generation Airbus plane....or maybe they will keep it "on the books" for a while...

This was one of the factors that led to AF's initial 777-200ER order. They had nearly a billion dollars deposited with Boeing.1
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jacobin777
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting N328KF (Reply 19):
This was one of the factors that led to AF's initial 777-200ER order. They had nearly a billion dollars deposited with Boeing.1

thanks for the link...I had read that a while ago also......it turned out to be a blessing for AF, as they love their 777's....ordering more 777's such as the 777-300ER, and 777-200F......
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EK413
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:57 pm

Thorben

The question now is: Who will take the delivery slots? Maybe we can see the A346 in one or two completely new liveries.


Hmm......Qantas & Virgin Blue (International) come to mind  Wink  Smile

EK413
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zvezda
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:06 pm

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 1):
But it will eventually be a cancellation IMO.

I think it's more likely that this will eventually be converted to an order for another Airbus product that hasn't been announced yet.
 
airfrnt
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:18 pm

Quoting Tifoso (Reply 12):
QR recently signed a deal with Airbus. (according to Kaneporta1 in another thread)

From the context, I believe that was for the long standing deal for A350, not A346. Color me confused because there was a article today that said that deal had not been closed.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:00 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 23):
EK is saying.."your product stinks..build us a better plane..."

They are more saying: "your 346 and 359 aren't doing it for us, so build us XYZ considering we are keeping your A380 program above water" and Airbus isn't so far biting.

They said to Boeing: "We like your 77W and 772LR, but that 789 just isn't doing it for us, so can you do ZYX?" and Boeing seems to be willing...

Just an observation.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ka
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:37 pm

Did EK make a miscalculation in their a/c numbers needed?? Until recently they couldn´t get enough new a/c quickly enough and many wondered how they could sustain such expansion. Now they are deferring a number of delivery slots. Do the A346 really don´t fit EK´s needs anymore or did they figure out that their plans were a bit too ambitous - maybe not pax-number wise but also infrastructure and/or crewing wise (It was reported that EK has/had recently few a/c in shortterm storage due to lack of crews)? Are their resources too heavily involved in the A380 introduction??

Just my thoughts,
KA.
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columba
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:19 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 16):
Anyway, I'll eat a hat if Boeing sells the slots for QR to LH.

Maybe LH Cargo -but definitely not mainline. I think 777-300ER and 777F share the same assembly line.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
Lumberton
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting Ka (Reply 26):
Did EK make a miscalculation in their a/c numbers needed?? Until recently they couldn´t get enough new a/c quickly enough and many wondered how they could sustain such expansion. Now they are deferring a number of delivery slots. Do the A346 really don´t fit EK´s needs anymore or did they figure out that their plans were a bit too ambitous - maybe not pax-number wise but also infrastructure and/or crewing wise (It was reported that EK has/had recently few a/c in shortterm storage due to lack of crews)? Are their resources too heavily involved in the A380 introduction??

Ka, there were a few posts last week that speculated that EK is beginning to feel the crunch from aircrew resignations--notably pilots. There are also a few threads on "Professional Pilots Rumor Network" (PPRUNE) that discuss this issue in detail. Cause for alarm IMO. Here's the link to the index:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=44
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EurostarVA
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 2):
The 787 is going to get Airbus to come up with something kick ass that I believe will truely rival or excede the 787. Although the A350 in its current phase of developement doesn't seem to be it......yet.

Well, it's easier said than done. First of all, although 2005 was the best year in Airbus' history, the manufacturer's finances are stretched at the moment due to the A380 development costs which exceeded the original budget for the project.

Furthermore, any re-design to the Airbus A340-600 will require hundreds of millions of dollars in redevelopment costs. Add to this, the cost of a proposed new model to truely rival the 787, and you have over $ 10 billion in additional costs! I think the A350 will go the Tristar's way....there will be plenty but not as nearly as the number of 767s or A300s manufactured. The design is just not as revolutionary and competitive as the state-of-the art 787 Dreamliner.

This industry is more cyclical than ever, with Airbus and Boeing continuously trying to be on top of the game.

Quoting Ka (Reply 26):
Did EK make a miscalculation in their a/c numbers needed?? Until recently they couldn´t get enough new a/c quickly enough and many wondered how they could sustain such expansion. Now they are deferring a number of delivery slots

It's not a miscalculation mate. It's simply the largest Airbus customer exerting an awsome amount of pressure on Airbus to get its act together with the A340-600. Failure to do so will compromise Emirates' own competitiveness in providing cheap long haul flights on board this aircraft.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
dutchjet
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RE: Emirates Delays A346 Order For A Few Years

Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:57 am

The EK order for the A346 was always controversial......for years, many of us never really expected EK to take delivery of the A346s as EK is a big 777 family operator. Why add the A346 to your fleet when you already have 773/773ERs in service and on order? The fact that the 773ER has performed remarkably well only supports EK's decision to put the A346 on hold.

EK will eventually rationalize its fleet....

A332s/A343s/772As are all likely to be replaced with the A350/787. The 772LR/773ER/A380 will make up the rest of the fleet.......and its hard to say whether the A345 has a long term future with EK, but I do not think that the A345s are going anywhere for the time being.

As for deposits paid to Airbus by EK with respect to the A346s, I am sure that Airbus worked something out to accommodate EK.....does Airbus really want to upset their largest customer for the A380, and a potential A350 purchaser at this critical time? Airbus is well aware that it has some problems with the A345/346 line, and is not going to worsen the situation by getting into a battle with very important EK over deposits for the A346.

Of course, the big question is when will EK place an order for the 787 or A350? My opinion (and its only an opinon) is that the longer it takes for EK to place the order, the better the chance that Boeing has to take the order. Time will tell.

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