boeingbus
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AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:03 pm

American Airlines and Massport launch a $50m overhaul of the carrier's space following upgrades to other facilities at Logan. The project will add a food court and ease connections for regional jet passengers.

http://www.boston.com/business/globe...icles/2006/03/31/terminal_effects/

This is GREAT NEWS! I'm just hoping AA can beef up its international service from BOS... I'm impressed with the continual improvement in AA. Kudos to their management!

Cheers,

Ric
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chrisnh
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:52 pm

It appears as though Boston has proven to be very successful with their trans-Atlantic 757s! I was wondering whether the 757-300 would be a good candidate for AA to pick a few up? Is that aircraft as good on these 'short' trans-Atlantic hops like BOS-SNN, BOS-GLA? Seems like Northwest, which has 753s, would have come back to do trans-Atlantic runs from Boston--like they did in the 1980s--with the 753. It always puzzled me why they dismantled that business at Logan...especially since AA has proven that they can make the 757 work on the routes that NW gave up.

Chris in NH
 
deltaguy767
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:50 pm

Hmmm...I wonder if this 'overhaul' would include Customs/Immigration in AA's terminal and if DL can get those privileges in Term A. I don't have a large amount of respect for Massport in their extremely poor planing of BOS with the amount of empty terminals that they have and insisting having a single terminal for INS, but with the right people the airport can be fixed by tearing down Terminal D and put AF and AZ in DL's Terminal, LF/Swiss in UA's and BA in AA's with Aer Lingus. But then again who am I kidding.  confused 

From BDL&BAF,
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boeingbus
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 2):
the amount of empty terminals that they have

Which ones? Last time I heard carriers are running out of space/gates and if Delta doesnt pay up it lease... Massport has threatened to move carriers into Terminal A.

I think Logan is growing quite well to the point its already Pre 9/11 levels....
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jfklganyc
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:31 am

You guys have to read between the lines here.

While this project is has some good points . . . it reflects a contraction, not an expansion, by AA at BOS.

1. Ameila Terminal is gone. Might I remind you that it had 8, yes 8, regional jet gates. There are no new gates being added at the Main Terminal. Eagle has reduced ops drastically into and out of BOS, and this move reflects that.

The Amelia Terminal had to go anyway, because it is in the area of the new runway, but the fact that Eagle will not gain any gates is telling of AAs future in BOS.

2. "It appears as though Boston has proven to be very successful with their trans-Atlantic 757s! I was wondering whether the 757-300 would be a good candidate for AA to pick a few up? "

A little overstated there. I don't know how successful they have been. The flights are holding their own. But a major trans-atlantic 757 expansion out of JFK and BOS has been scrapped. Apparently the ideas isn't too successful.

3. Massport wants all arriving intl flights to go into the intl facility. DL tried to put intl gates in Terminal A . . . Massport said no. Now DL has no trans-atlantic flights out of BOS . . .and likely never will.

Don't look for a Terminal B intl facility anytime soon.

4. JFK. This is BOS biggest hurdle for any major expansion by DL or AA. DL is just more committed to their hub at JFK. And AA has just spend $1 billion on a terminal at JFK. The future for both carriers (if there is a future) is in NY at JFK.


The good aspect about this project is the ability to transit from the AA area to the Eagle area without crossing security. Also, the current Eagle area had no bathrooms and a lone concession. All of those problems will be solved with this project.

PJ
 
commavia
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
3. Massport wants all arriving intl flights to go into the intl facility. DL tried to put intl gates in Terminal A . . . Massport said no. Now DL has no trans-atlantic flights out of BOS . . .and likely never will.

Don't look for a Terminal B intl facility anytime soon.

Pre-9/11, Massport and AA were actually working on building an international arrivals facility in Terminal B for AA arrivals (then from LHR and CDG only, no MAN or SNN). This project, which would have added an arrivals facility in AA's part of Terminal B, was canned after the attacks.
 
SNATH
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:32 am

BoeingBus,

Thanks for posting this. AA's Terminal B peer is easily my least favorite terminal at BOS. I am delighted to hear that they are going to improve the facilities. Any terminal in which you have to cross security to reach a bathroom is a disgrace in my humble opinion!

Tony
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apodino
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:35 am

This isn't bad, but its going to leave a lot of unsolved problems there. Here is what I think should be done instead.

Tear down the parking garage and build a central check in and baggage claim facility in its place for AA and US. Then consolodate everything into one central security checkpoint.

Apparently its not happening that way. And I think its sad.
 
highflyer9790
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:40 am

I'm happy to hear but it also has me second guessing-is AA trying to slowly dwindle their BOS presence?

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 4):
You guys have to read between the lines here.

While this project is has some good points . . . it reflects a contraction, not an expansion, by AA at BOS.

1. Ameila Terminal is gone. Might I remind you that it had 8, yes 8, regional jet gates. There are no new gates being added at the Main Terminal. Eagle has reduced ops drastically into and out of BOS, and this move reflects that.

The Amelia Terminal had to go anyway, because it is in the area of the new runway, but the fact that Eagle will not gain any gates is telling of AAs future in BOS.

2. "It appears as though Boston has proven to be very successful with their trans-Atlantic 757s! I was wondering whether the 757-300 would be a good candidate for AA to pick a few up? "

A little overstated there. I don't know how successful they have been. The flights are holding their own. But a major trans-atlantic 757 expansion out of JFK and BOS has been scrapped. Apparently the ideas isn't too successful.

3. Massport wants all arriving intl flights to go into the intl facility. DL tried to put intl gates in Terminal A . . . Massport said no. Now DL has no trans-atlantic flights out of BOS . . .and likely never will.

Don't look for a Terminal B intl facility anytime soon.

4. JFK. This is BOS biggest hurdle for any major expansion by DL or AA. DL is just more committed to their hub at JFK. And AA has just spend $1 billion on a terminal at JFK. The future for both carriers (if there is a future) is in NY at JFK.

These good points made by JFKLGANYC are keeping me wondering...
121
 
TUNisia
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 2:50 am

Terminal B is in rough shape, needs a major overhaul, it always has a very cold and stale feel to it. I hope they replace that hideous tile floor!
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
 
SNATH
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:00 am

I hope you'd allow me to add a couple of photos, for people who are not familiar with the terminal:


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Tony Printezis



(lovely, eh?)

But the eagle does look quite smart IMHO:


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © Tony Printezis



Tony

[Edited 2006-03-31 19:01:14]
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 3:22 am

It's really too bad that Delta and Massport were (are?) at loggerheads regarding international service at 'their' terminal (whose terminal is it, anyway...Massport's or Delta's?).

If Delta had been permitted to fly internationally out of this new terminal, you **might** be able to expect that the place would be busier than it is. Tenants are grousing that business levels aren't what they were 'promised' when they signed their leases. International flying would have made for a busier terminal and certainly busier restaurants since trans-Atlantic flights all leave at night. But that presumes that Delta would have run international flights through here. Even with customs/immigration facilities, there is NO guarantee they would have. So it is not quite accurate to say Delta's terminal is under-performing simply because they can't fly international from there. It might have been under-performing either way, given the ill state of affairs at DL.

I know this is an 'AA' topic, so I'll stick with that. I've also heard that AA has been (is?) pulling back at Boston. Not in a radical way, but you can certainly see it simply by virtue of smaller planes now versus pre-9/11. Then, there were lots of 757s, 767s, and A300s at Logan. Now there aren't. Seat counts are WAY down. So I agree that AA is diminished in Boston compared to pre-9/11. And indeed, EVERYTHING looks like 'growth' when you stack it up to the way Logan was after 9/11.

When Logan trots out its 'growth' statistics, they deserve an asterisk just like Barry Bonds deserves an asterisk.

Chris in NH
 
COERJ145
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:48 am

Finally, the "ghetto" side of B is getting a renovation. Big grin
 
SNATH
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 12):
Finally, the "ghetto" side of B is getting a renovation.

Oh, how cruel you are! But I couldn't have put it better myself!  bigthumbsup 

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
B752OS
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:13 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 11):
I know this is an 'AA' topic, so I'll stick with that. I've also heard that AA has been (is?) pulling back at Boston. Not in a radical way, but you can certainly see it simply by virtue of smaller planes now versus pre-9/11. Then, there were lots of 757s, 767s, and A300s at Logan. Now there aren't. Seat counts are WAY down. So I agree that AA is diminished in Boston compared to pre-9/11. And indeed, EVERYTHING looks like 'growth' when you stack it up to the way Logan was after 9/11.

When Logan trots out its 'growth' statistics, they deserve an asterisk just like Barry Bonds deserves an asterisk.

Chris in NH

You still see a ton of 752s at BOS, what are you talking about.

Here is a list of all the 752 routes on AA out of BOS:
MIA-6 daily, all 752s
LAX-3 daily, all 752s
SFO-2 daily, all 752s
SAN-1 daily, 752
SJU-3 daily, all 752
DFW-1 of the daily flights is a 752
SNN-1 daily, a 752 (seasonal)
MAN-1 daily, a 752 (seasonal)
STT-1, a 752(seasonal)
MCO-1 daily, a 752, switches to it for the summer/fall


Seat counts are down, as a result in the flight cuts, but I would not say they are WAY down, that would mean AA would have cut their service out of BOS way back. The only major cuts have been Eagle routes, and they did not restart the seasonal daily flight to MSY. AA is cutting flights out of BOS to make ther flights more profitable.


The comment on Bonds is just awful, why do you always insult BOS, I know you don't like Massport, but don't sit here and say the fact that Logan since 2001 has seen good growth every year is not "real" growth. Also, what would you put for an explanation for the asterisk?


Logan is almost back to the level of 2000, their highest pax totals, 2005 beat 1999 and was 200,000 pax short of 2000.



It is good to see AA making improvements at a terminal that is not great at all.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:40 am

The SNN flight has to be operated as long as AA flies ORD-DUB abut that could change if the EU signs open skies which would likely eliminate the requirement for SNN stops. Airlines like DL and CO will likely continue to serve SNN because there is an interest in that part of the country but airlines that only want to fly to DUB probably won't need to do it.

I agree that DL would likely only keep its full terminal at BOS only if they can operate international service from their own terminal and at reduced rates than what they are doing. The DL terminal is very nice but DL doesn't need it all and really doesn't want to pay the astronomical price that Leo agreed to.

And has been pointed out, AA, CO, and DL are going after each other in NYC for international service. The only advantage AA could have in BOS is that they could add 757s which CO doesn't have and DL's aren't equipped for overwater use. AA could penetrate farther into Europe from BOS than CO could from EWR but absent those hopes AA is basically just going to hold its own in BOS. DL's new regional jet and turboprop flights from New England to JFK only solidify New England as a spoke rather than a hub in international travel.

You can't lose sight of the fact that B6 is quickly moving their E190s into BOS and DL is downgrading its former Song routes from BOS more than they are downgrading the NYC ex-Song (or soon to be) routes to say that BOS has too much capacity.

The excess capacity in BOS means that Massport had no choice but to do something for AA in order to get them to relinquish the part of the terminal that stood in the way of progress. Other than that, no one is likely to make a move out in front in BOS.
 
rob2507
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 6:19 am

The FIS project from 2000, while only specifically mentiong AA, could probably have easily covered US as well. Check out how close this was to getting built:

(source: http://www.massport.com/about/press02/pdf/c_edr2000.pdf)
American Airlines Terminal B / Massport FIS
Facility. An ENF was filed with MEPA on
May 31, 2000 and a Certificate issued on June 7,
2000. On August 24, 2000, the FAA determined
that the projects are categorically excluded
from the need to prepare an Environmental
Assessment and that the projects meet the
General Conformity requirements of the
Clean Air Act, as amended.6 A Draft EIR was
filed on April 30, 2001 and approved as a Final
EIR on June 15, 2001. A Certificate of Adequacy
was received in August 17, 2001. (map on page 9)

Anyone know what the overall service level of Eagle is today compared to when they moved over to the Earhart terminal? I'm curious to see if there were just as many ops today as there were before they started using Earhart.
 
commavia
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Rob2507 (Reply 16):
The FIS project from 2000, while only specifically mentiong AA, could probably have easily covered US as well.

Could have, but was intended for AA. If you look at the illustration on page ES-6 of the link you provided, it clearly shows a 'Massport Satellite FIS Facility' at the end of AA's Terminal B, where the Eagle gates are today.
 
zrs70
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:53 am

Anyone remember in the mid 80's when AA only used three gates on their main pier in Terminal B? Piedmont used the other three, and Northwest (Orient) used the gates on the southern end of ther terminal.

At that time, AA would have 2-3 DC10's on the ground, and NW had their two 747's (for LGW and SNN).
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
PHLBOS
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 10):
(lovely, eh?)

Suddenly! It's 1977!  Silly

Quoting SNATH (Reply 10):
But the eagle does look quite smart IMHO:

Agreed, AA would be stupid to remove their Classic Eagle logo.
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jfklganyc
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:22 am

"Anyone know what the overall service level of Eagle is today compared to when they moved over to the Earhart terminal? I'm curious to see if there were just as many ops today as there were before they started using Earhart."


Way off. When Eagle bought Business Express, I believe they had 100+ flights a day out of BOS.

The Saab Base closed down, and the Jet base has dwindled.

PJ
 
rob2507
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:06 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 17):

Could have, but was intended for AA. If you look at the illustration on page ES-6 of the link you provided, it clearly shows a 'Massport Satellite FIS Facility' at the end of AA's Terminal B, where the Eagle gates are today.

Right. I was just stating that if US wanted to get in on the project, they probably could have done so fairly easily. US's "new" shuttle gates are right next to the area that this new space would have been built on (lower left corner of this photo).


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Spijkers

 
md90fan
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 14):
You still see a ton of 752s at BOS, what are you talking about.

Here is a list of all the 752 routes on AA out of BOS:
MIA-6 daily, all 752s
LAX-3 daily, all 752s
SFO-2 daily, all 752s
SAN-1 daily, 752
SJU-3 daily, all 752
DFW-1 of the daily flights is a 752
SNN-1 daily, a 752 (seasonal)
MAN-1 daily, a 752 (seasonal)
STT-1, a 752(seasonal)
MCO-1 daily, a 752, switches to it for the summer/fall

Dont forget AAL1501 with n/s service to Providencials, T&C (PLS)  silly 
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USPIT10L
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 10):
But the eagle does look quite smart IMHO:

I love the retro AA signs at LAX and BOS. It's a shame they didn't do it at ORD and DFW too.

Quoting Rob2507 (Reply 16):
The FIS project from 2000, while only specifically mentiong AA, could probably have easily covered US as well. Check out how close this was to getting built:

That's a shame. Too bad, US would've gotten their dream of a European gateway at BOS, but by the time it was built, BOS was not in their long-term plans.
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worldtraveler
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:41 am

Every carrier has a major hub somewhere else in the NE, making BOS a focus city at best. There will undoubtedly be a day when BOS will become a major growth point for some airline but everyone is content to let BOS remain as a strong focus city rather than a major hub. Any carrier that tries to significantly grow will have to deal with every other carrier that has a major stake in BOS.
 
apodino
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:12 pm

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 23):
Too bad, US would've gotten their dream of a European gateway at BOS, but by the time it was built, BOS was not in their long-term plans.

The plan was for a shared facility in B that could be used by either US or AA. And its more like "Stephen Wolf's dream".

I still say the parking garage needs to go, and you can build a nice modern facility on its place. If anyone has ever picked anyone up curbside there, its a pain in the neck, because there is only one lane for all traffic, not segregated for courtesy buses and stuff like that like you have in A, C, and E. And you can even build a new observation deck as part of it. If anyone has been to the top of the B garage, its a great spotting location, but unfortunately they have cracked down. People are too damn paranoid.
 
B752OS
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RE: AA's BOS Terminal To Be Overhauled...

Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:44 pm

Quoting Apodino (Reply 25):
I still say the parking garage needs to go, and you can build a nice modern facility on its place. If anyone has ever picked anyone up curbside there, its a pain in the neck, because there is only one lane for all traffic, not segregated for courtesy buses and stuff like that like you have in A, C, and E. And you can even build a new observation deck as part of it. If anyone has been to the top of the B garage, its a great spotting location, but unfortunately they have cracked down. People are too damn paranoid.

I remember as a kid going there with my mom. My dad traveled a ton for business so we would drive him to the airport and then sit on the top deck of the garage and watch the planes for a while, or we would go to Castle Island and watch(it's a great place for spotting).

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 24):
Every carrier has a major hub somewhere else in the NE, making BOS a focus city at best. There will undoubtedly be a day when BOS will become a major growth point for some airline but everyone is content to let BOS remain as a strong focus city rather than a major hub. Any carrier that tries to significantly grow will have to deal with every other carrier that has a major stake in BOS.

The only way BOS would ever be a major hub for a carrier would be for a European network. Boston is a pretty big city, with a very large and wealthy metro area, but that's not enough to support a major hub operation for an airline. Yes Boston is a big financial center, the largest college town in the country, and the area does get a good amount of tourists, but we are no New York or Los Angeles. I don't know the numbers, but I would guess Boston is in the top 10 for cities in the United States having the most international tourists. Add in the fact that we do not have the geographic location of a ORD, or DFW, to make sense as a hub.

BOS continues to grow, so far through January and February, traffic is up over 4% from last year. It is well served and nice to see one of the worst terminals around get a little bit of a makeover.

[Edited 2006-04-03 05:46:32]

[Edited 2006-04-03 05:47:06]

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