Concorde001
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BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:53 pm

Article found on PPRUNE
Article published in: http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2006/04/03/048.html
Some quotes from the article:

Quote:
BMI, Britain's No. 3 airline, has won Russian approval to start daily flights between Moscow and London to help meet surging demand for business and holiday travel between the two countries, the Transportation Ministry said Friday.

Civil aviation authorities from the two countries reached an accord late Thursday that allows BMI to begin daily flights in the second quarter and twice-daily flights in the third, said ministry spokesman Konstantin Rubakhin. In return, Aeroflot and Transaero, as well as British Airways, can add flights between Moscow and London. "This agreement reflects parity and growing passenger traffic," Rubakhin said by telephone, declining to provide growth figures.

"We're delighted that after such a long time this has been accepted," BMI spokesman Phil Shepherd said from company headquarters in Derby, England. "BMI received a designation to fly to Russia five years ago; however, it wasn't recognized by the Russian authorities until now."
 
mutu
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:09 am

WHere will they get equipment from? I assume A321 ex MAd route?
 
mainMAN
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:56 am

This article also suggests that licences are available for services between Moscow, Birmingham and Liverpool and London to Krasnoyarsk (no idea) and Kalinininingrad (Stalingrad as was)

Can anyone shed any light on the regulatory framework that would allow services to Manchester? Is it already in place?
 
BA380
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:06 am

let me guess what combination of full service/low cost long/short haul this one will be.....

an A319, kitted with longhaul seats, but no the Business seats available as such, but instead, they will give the Business passengers a second hot towel, so that's alright. Free booze, but no meal. Except on Tuesdays, when it will all be exactly the other way round.
cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
 
cornish
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:12 am

On a slightly more serious note does anyone know if they will be flying to SVO or DME? If they're flying to SVO then that's a good insentive to fly BA instead for starters.....

My bet is an A330 taken off the India run and a leased L1011 used for that service instead....  Wink
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:16 am

Domodedovo i think they said...

A321 perfect route i'd say.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
cornish
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:19 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 16):
Domodedovo i think they said...

Well at least that's a smart move.

Actually I think Moscow is one of Bmi's better decisions of late. They've got the right aircraft - A321 would do nicely - and its a market with some decent potential. If they can align themselves with a good domestic Russian carrier,like Sibir for example, they could get themselves some pretty decent onward feed too....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
padster
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:20 am

Quoting Gman94 (Reply 10):
This article also suggests that licences are available for services between Moscow, Birmingham and Liverpool and London to Krasnoyarsk (no idea) and Kalinininingrad (Stalingrad as was)

Krasnoyarsk is the biggest city in western siberia , it is about 4 hrs east from Moscow .
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:30 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 17):
Well at least that's a smart move.

Actually I think Moscow is one of Bmi's better decisions of late. They've got the right aircraft - A321 would do nicely - and its a market with some decent potential. If they can align themselves with a good domestic Russian carrier,like Sibir for example, they could get themselves some pretty decent onward feed too....

Agree - right sort of route for them - decent yielding high traffic. Should do ok.

I'd still take WT+ on a nice new dusked BA 763ER though to be fair.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
cornish
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 19):
Agree - right sort of route for them - decent yielding high traffic. Should do ok.

I'd still take WT+ on a nice new dusked BA 763ER though to be fair.

Except of course that the really high yield Russians hanging out in London have their own planes....  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
mainMAN
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 17):
Actually I think Moscow is one of Bmi's better decisions of late.

According to another site, it wasn't so much of a decision, rather they found themselves with a route licence, and so decided to use it, perhaps not realising that it's not obligatory to act upon these things, in all cases.

But still, Vnukovo will be a welcome addition to BD's network. Particularly useful for ski passengers and winter sun.
 
gkirk
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:45 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 17):
They've got the right aircraft - A321 would do nicely -

Which I believe are leaving the fleet  Wink

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 21):
According to another site, it wasn't so much of a decision, rather they found themselves with a route licence, and so decided to use it, perhaps not realising that it's not obligatory to act upon these things, in all cases.

 rotfl 
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UN_B732
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:56 am

Vnukovo is very convenient, this is going to be a great route for O&D pax.
Between SU/UN/BA/BD with will be a good, competitive market.
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 9):
Kalinininingrad (Stalingrad as was)

Oh dear.... Kaliningrad used to be called Königsberg until the end of WWII, then it was bombed to oblivion by Bomber Harris and later the Soviet Army, now it's probably the strangest oddity on the European map...

Stalingrad is now called Volgograd, and is near the border with the Ukraine.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
mainMAN
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 24):
Stalingrad is now called Volgograd, and is near the border with the Ukraine.

Yes, sorry that's right. It was the capital of east Prussia, and also Polish at one time too.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 9):
Can anyone shed any light on the regulatory framework that would allow services to Manchester? Is it already in place?

Weren't BMI one of the most vocal against CX's proposed MAN-SVO-HKG service?

Quoting Cornish (Reply 17):
Actually I think Moscow is one of Bmi's better decisions of late

Agree. Though as Gkirk says, isn;t the A321 coming out of the BMI fleet?

7L
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LH410
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 27):
Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 24):
Stalingrad is now called Volgograd, and is near the border with the Ukraine.

Yes, sorry that's right. It was the capital of east Prussia, and also Polish at one time too.

Nice to see how a BMI thread (a very interesting one by the way, since it offers a new alternative to go from BRU on another Star Alliance carrier except LH and OS) turns into a history lesson.

Just to avoid misunderstandings - Volgograd (former Stalingrad) has never been the capital of East Prussia, this was Königsberg until 1945, today Kaliningrad. Also, I wouldn't necessarily say that Volgograd is near the border with Ukraine, but distances are relative.

Königsberg has never been Polish. It was a foundation of the German Knights' Order in 1255. What actually happened during the Potsdam Conference in August 1945 was that East Prussia was divided and the western parts put under Polish administration and the eastern part (including Königsberg) was put under Soviet administration. This status quo was formally only recognised by West Germany in 1990, however the political recognition falls under the chancellorship of Willy Brandt (1969 - 1974) who made a policy of reconciliation with Poland and the then Soviet Union.

Today Kaliningrad is an exclave of Russia, and the only part of Russia having a direct border with the EU.
 
Humberside
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:38 am

Hopefully Moscow will be a success for bmi. I know they are focusing on high yielding routes from LHR so hopefully they can capture a large amount of business traffic.

Does anyone know if bmi plan on a partnership with a Russian airline for onward connections and to increase to number of Russians using the service?
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noelg
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting LH410 (Reply 29):
Today Kaliningrad is an exclave of Russia, and the only part of Russia having a direct border with the EU.

What about those parts of Russia that have a border with Finland, Latvia and Estonia? They are all member states...

Cheers,
Noel.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting LH410 (Reply 29):

Dunno why it's quoting me, cos I never said what it says I said!
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:36 am

Actually SVO I think is a good idea, for once a very good idea.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
rwylie77
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:46 am

Which alliance did Aeroflot join in the end, Star or SkyTeam?
 
LH410
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:53 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 19):
What about those parts of Russia that have a border with Finland, Latvia and Estonia? They are all member states...

Cheers,
Noel.

You are of course right, some more diligence would not have harmed my contribution. What I actually meant was that the Kaliningrad region is the only Russian region to be entirely surrounded by EU Member States, thus being an enclave.
 
mainMAN
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:59 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 15):
Weren't BMI one of the most vocal against CX's proposed MAN-SVO-HKG service?

Apparently, yes. There's something odd going on here, with licences to operate to LPL and BHX. Someone, somewhere still wants to keep CX away from the UK market.

Quoting LH410 (Reply 22):
Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 19):
What about those parts of Russia that have a border with Finland, Latvia and Estonia? They are all member states...

Cheers,
Noel.

You are of course right, some more diligence would not have harmed my contribution. What I actually meant was that the Kaliningrad region is the only Russian region to be entirely surrounded by EU Member States, thus being an enclave.

LH410, you've quoted 7LBAC111 wrongly again. To quote a bit of text, just left-click and drag over it so it appears with a white background. Then click on 'quote selected text'.

No worries......

[Edited 2006-04-04 03:00:22]
 
cornish
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:23 pm

Quoting Rwylie77 (Reply 21):
Which alliance did Aeroflot join in the end, Star or SkyTeam?

They're joining Skyteam.

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 15):
Though as Gkirk says, isn;t the A321 coming out of the BMI fleet?

Ah - so in that case i assume it'll be a 320 then ?
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
EWS
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:13 pm

Could this be in competition with Cathay? They start Manchester-Moscow-Hong Kong soon..

Lew
 
BestWestern
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:24 pm

Rumours of BD taking another 763 from Holland. This may end up operating to Moscow.
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mhodgson
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting EWS (Reply 25):
Could this be in competition with Cathay? They start Manchester-Moscow-Hong Kong soon..

Route permission yet to be granted - bmi apparantly against approving the licence for Moscow-MAN
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cornish
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:30 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 26):
Rumours of BD taking another 763 from Holland. This may end up operating to Moscow.

I believe 763s are what BA operate on the route, with SU using A321s these days. Will be interesting to see if BD can fill an aircraft that large on a European service, bearing in mind they are unlikely to have as much connecting feed as BA.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
mhodgson
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:33 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 28):
bearing in mind they are unlikely to have as much connecting feed as BA.

They could do quite well from UA connections (unless UA offer a direct flight).
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ManchesterMAN
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting EWS (Reply 25):
Could this be in competition with Cathay? They start Manchester-Moscow-Hong Kong soon..

Lew

This has been on-off for so many years I don't think it will ever happen. It so nearly did this spring then the plug was pulled again. Something isn't quite right with this one.
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cornish
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:36 pm

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 29):
Quoting Cornish (Reply 28):
bearing in mind they are unlikely to have as much connecting feed as BA.


They could do quite well from UA connections (unless UA offer a direct flight).

Possibly, but i expect most of that would go through FRA at present, with LH/UA.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:51 pm

Quoting ManchesterMAN (Reply 30):
This has been on-off for so many years I don't think it will ever happen. It so nearly did this spring then the plug was pulled again. Something isn't quite right with this one.

I disagree. I received an email from MAN airport this morning, which hints at this service being relaunched soon.

Quote:
Cathay had originally announced the MAN-SVO-HKG route which was subject to government and regulatory approval. Unfortunately the completion of these formalities has taken longer than anticipated, leaving CX with no alternative but to postpone the launch of its' service.

Back to topic, BMI made a mess of launching another route recently, before getting the approval they said they had. (Was it BAH or JED?). I'll not hold my breath on seeing this one launch just yet ....

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
cornish
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 27):
Route permission yet to be granted - bmi apparantly against approving the licence for Moscow-MAN

Maybe that is connected to BD's LHR-Moscow service. It could be an issue that only four carriers, BA, SU, Un and now BD can operate UK-Russia scheduled services. I don't actually know the exact details of the bilateral.

BD of course was granted Moscow rights years ago but didn't use them. Perhaps Cathay were looking to gain the rights due to BD not using there's. That could be a reason why BD objected to them on the grounds that they were going to start up their own service finally and the bilateral didn't allow a fifth carrier to fly between the two countries.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
airish
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:53 pm

This article says London to Moscow in cooperation with Russian air carrier Transaero.

http://money.iwon.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt...=20060404&alias=/alias/money/cm/nw
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nijltje
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:05 pm

Just use a A319 a perfect aircraft for that route if they look for the high yields...
 
7LBAC111
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:35 am

Quoting Airish (Reply 34):
This article says London to Moscow in cooperation with Russian air carrier Transaero.

http://money.iwon.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt...cm/nw

Hmm. In co-operation with Transaero? Will this be like the service to Doha in 'co-operation' with Qatar' that has just had to be stopped??

You gotta love the joke that is BMI.

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
BDKLEZ
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:59 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 36):
Will this be like the service to Doha in 'co-operation' with Qatar' that has just had to be stopped??

 rotfl 
Trespassers will be shot; survivors will be shot again!
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:43 am

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2006/04/03/048.html

Moscow times suggests 2 flights a day from the 3/4 quarter this year.

Maybe bmi will operate 1 and Transaero1, but in reality Transaero may operate both flights, 1 under bmi's name.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
mainMAN
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:29 am

Whether bmi will operate the permitted 2 daily services (dependant on available LHR slots too) remains to be seen.

Moscow seems to me to be a good way for BD to restore a bit of credibility.



Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 36):
Hmm. In co-operation with Transaero? Will this be like the service to Doha in 'co-operation' with Qatar' that has just had to be stopped??

Similar, only it may be operated in conjunction with Petropavlovsk-Avia with the front end of a wet-leased IL-62, welded onto the back section of a TU134.
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:35 am

Many of us (myself included) do bitch about BD and there strange service.

However, they must be doing something right, as they have just announced an 284.6% increase in profits....

http://www.flybmi.com/bmi/en-gb/abou...essreleases.aspx?year=2006&rid=886



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
afay1
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:06 am

If they are operated by Transaero, can people earn Star Alliance miles on this route? It would make the North America-Western Europe-Russia connection more convenient for many people who previously wouldn't go through London as they couldn't earn Star Alliance points as easily as going through FRA/MUC and less-so VIE/WAW/CPH (and now ZRH). I personally preferred going through ZRH as it broke up the time well and Swiss has superior service, IMHO, than LH.
 
andaman
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:12 am

Quoting NoelG (Reply 18):

What about those parts of Russia that have a border with Finland, Latvia and Estonia? They are all member states...

Cheers,
Noel.

Latvia doesn't share a border with Finland...
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
padster
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 40):



Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 40):
Many of us (myself included) do bitch about BD and there strange service.

However, they must be doing something right, as they have just announced an 284.6% increase in profits....

urmmm no, they have just included how much money LH and SAS give them in there profits ( 90% LH/SAS only 10% BMI losses .... ) ... so to hide how bad things are...
 
afay1
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:18 am

I think there is a misplaced comma. Finland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and Poland all border some part of Russia. Norway does as well, but is not an EU member.
 
andaman
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RE: BMI To Start London Heathrow -> Moscow

Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 44):
I think there is a misplaced comma. Finland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, and Poland all border some part of Russia. Norway does as well, but is not an EU member.

Oops, my mistake.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"

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