B777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:23 am

Here is the AP story. Sounds like Lee Moak wants to be a little dictator and do it all himself. Sounds like he is taking it personal to me. Wish he would stop worrying about a bloody strike and instead concentrate on getting a deal done!

Delta union leader seeks strike authority

By HARRY R. WEBER
AP Business Writer

ATLANTA (AP) -- Now that Delta Air Lines Inc. pilots have authorized a strike, their union leader wants the right to decide when a walkout would occur.

The chairman, Lee Moak, said he would meet in special session with union leaders Wednesday and ask them to empower him to decide when and if to set a strike date.

"If our contract is rejected, we will strike," Moak said in an interview. "I can't be more direct than that."

His comments Tuesday came after Delta pilots, angered by management's effort to throw out their contract and impose deep pay cuts, voted by a wide margin to authorize a strike.

The 94.7 percent vote in favor of authorizing a strike currently gives union leaders the authority to set a strike date. They didn't set a date immediately and gave no indication when they might act.

The results were announced Tuesday in a memo to pilots from Moak.

An arbitration panel must decide by April 15 whether to void the pilots' contract.

The nation's third largest carrier, which is operating under bankruptcy protection, has said a strike would put it out of business.

Any strike would likely prompt a court challenge by the company, which would almost certainly seek a restraining order. Moak said in an interview the union will "do what is legal."

Moak said that during a special meeting to be held by Wednesday he will ask union leaders to give him sole authority to set a strike date. He said the union is still open to negotiations, but he insisted the company hasn't been willing to compromise.

Delta spokesman Bruce Hicks said the vote made public Tuesday will not affect service.

"Together with our pilots and all of our employees we remain focused on our No. 1 priority, which is taking good care of our customers," Hicks said.

He added that the company is committed to seeking a consensual deal with its pilots.

"The panel asked us to work privately and quietly and we're doing everything we can to honor their requests," Hicks said.

Atlanta-based Delta sought approval to reject its contract with its 5,930 pilots so it can impose up to $325 million in long-term pay and benefit cuts, which would include a wage reduction of at least 18 percent.

Delta's pilots previously agreed to $1 billion in annual concessions, including a 32.5 percent wage cut, in a five-year deal in 2004. But Delta, which has imposed pay cuts on other employees, said it needs more from its pilots after filing for bankruptcy protection in September.

So far, there has been little movement toward a long-term deal to replace an interim deal reached in December, though both sides have met at least a handful of times since arbitration hearings in Washington ended March 23, Moak said. The company has offered to reduce its concessions request to $305 million a year if the pilots reach a consensual deal, while the pilots say they have offered $140 million.

Moak said Tuesday that each sides' table positions have not changed.

He told pilots in his memo that the union isn't using its strike threat as a bargaining tactic.

"All too often over the past months, management has attempted to mischaracterize the defense of our contract as posturing, gamesmanship and, most recently, saber-rattling. They are wrong," Moak wrote.

Of the 5,590 pilots who voted on the strike authorization ballot, 5,295 voted in favor, according to the union.

The company says the average earnings of pilots last year who worked the full year was more than $157,000. The union says line pilots made on average $151,000 last year. Both the union figure and company figure exclude management pilots, though the union figure also excludes instructor pilots and certain other pilots.


Link: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DELTA_PILOTS?

[Edited 2006-04-05 17:24:08]

[Edited 2006-04-05 17:38:24]
 
MD88Captain
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 9:50 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpha Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:27 am

You cannot get a deal done if the other side will not come to the table. It has been take this deal or we will take away your contract. Bottom line: DAL pilots will not work without a contract. You can expect a walkout, I am sorry to say. BTW. It is DALPA.

[Edited 2006-04-05 17:28:39]
 
B777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:40 am

While you have every right to walk-out, I do hope your savings account is well padded or your investments are sound as you will be living off it.
 
DeltaSFO
Posts: 2407
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2000 11:22 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:43 am

A strike is unlikely. A deal will be struck.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
 
MattRB
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:49 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:51 am

Wish I had that kind of confidence in a deal being struck..
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
surfdog75
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5):



Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 3):
A strike is unlikely. A deal will be struck.

I agree. It's unfortunate that management chose to work against instead of with the pilot group. Management has been unwilling to negotiate even when it is clear that they are asking far too much. They have chosen a path which will create distrust for years to come.

It is a shame to see the inspired work of some of the good new management (Mr Whitehurst, Mr Cortelyou, and Mr Hauenstein) jeopardized by the bad old "kill the pilots" group of left over management. A lot more can be accomplished by working together rather than against each other. Why people never learn this, I can not figure out.

Pilots have agreed to give back almost 6 billion dollars over 5 years and now have no chance at the retirement most have worked a lifetime for. This is exponentially more than any other work group has given. They were even willing to give back after 911 but management said it was not enough and negotiations dragged out for years. I'd say that shows they were willing to work together to fix this thing but management still comes after them. It's simple, don't void the pilot contract, work together, and there will be no strike.
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 6):
Management has been unwilling to negotiate even when it is clear that they are asking far too much.

'Clear' in whose mind? It's clear to DALPA that management is asking too much but it is also clear to management that they are asking for just enough. The 'truth' or 'objective' view, if you will, is unfortunately going to be in the heads and minds of the arbitration panel. The truth is probably, as usual, somewhere in between, i.e., DALPA is being too optimistic in its analysis and projections, and management is being more conservative/pessimistic in its assessment of the situation....
 
beefstew25
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:40 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:32 am

Pilots need to realize that the market is not going to bear what they traditionally have made. There are legions of pilots that would take half of what these guys are making.

Also, why must DALPA have a pension? A 401k would be a better option. The company pays in once, and no longer is responsible for it.
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
ord
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:44 am

My question is why would the pilot's union agree back in December to binding arbitration, only to come back and say that if the decision does not go their way they will strike? They must live by the panel's decision, otherwise they should have not agreed to the binding arbitration in the first place. Whether right or wrong, they are coming across as the bad guys in terms of public opinion.
 
gokmengs
Posts: 895
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:48 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting B777ER (Thread starter):
Here is the AP story. Sounds like Lee Moak wants to be a little dictator and do it all himself. Sounds like he is taking it personal to me. Wish he would stop worrying about a bloody strike and instead concentrate on getting a deal done!

After reading his comments in previous months I too believe that Moak is taking it personal, and his attitude regarding this matter is wrong and not helpful to the situation at hand. It is so amazing that all of DL's people lives are literally in the hands of this guy.

[Edited 2006-04-05 18:52:31]
Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
 
commavia
Posts: 9744
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:48 am

Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 3):
A strike is unlikely. A deal will be struck.

Agreed. In the end, I doubt that Delta's pilots will actually walk out, knowing that they are basically walking out of employment. While they (understandably so) don't like that they are ultimately going to have to take a huge cut in pay and benefits, and possibly lose a sizeable portion of their pensions, they also no doubt recognize that if they are all out on the street, they probably aren't going to find all that many places hiring at the wages they are paid now, or would be paid under any concession plan. I could be wrong, but I hope not, as I would hate to see Delta collapse just because the pilots won't give more concessions.
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:55 am

In the tune of "Don't Cry For Me Argentina"

It won't be easy, you think it strange
Yet you try to explain how you feel
But you still want our love after all that you’ve done

You say you won't believe me
All you will see is a man in a suit
Who’s flying up front in the nines
And seven three sevens too

You had to let it happen, you had to say
That management couldn’t run your life
They didn’t understand what you did, as you stared at the sun

So you choose strike
Running around, picket lines too
But nothing impresses us at all
And you shouldn’t expect it to

Don’t cry for us Delta Pilots
The truth is we never liked you
All through those bad flights
We kept our promise…
And now you push us away

And as for fortune, and as for fame
You say you were in it for the love
Though it seemed in the world, United +1 was what you desired

You are illusions
Not the team workers you promised to be
The answer was here all the time
I hope you enjoy flipping a burger or three

Don’t cry for us Delta Pilots
The truth is it never was you
That kept us loyal
it was F/As and ground crew too

Have I said too much?
There's nothing more I can think of to say to you.
But all you have to do is look at me to know
That every word is true
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
surfdog75
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting ORD (Reply 9):
My question is why would the pilot's union agree back in December to binding arbitration, only to come back and say that if the decision does not go their way they will strike? They must live by the panel's decision, otherwise they should have not agreed to the binding arbitration in the first place. Whether right or wrong, they are coming across as the bad guys in terms of public opinion.

They only agreed to let the 3 man panel replace the bankruptcy judge and to take a temporary additional 14 percent pay cut while the decision is being made. It is not binding arbitration. They have said all along they would not work without a contract. The panel only decides whether the company can void the pilot contract or not, nothing else.
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:17 am

I would think all of this would be easier for the Pilots to take if Delta Management had taken similar cuts, and/or hadn't squandered the previous givebacks by the Pilots.

These guys/gals we NOT handed flying jobs at (what was) one of the world's best carriers. They worked for it. Many for years, and at wages below what Tennis and Golf Instructors are paid at the clubhouse. I can see why most of them are taking this stand. Maybe having the present job at one third your original pay/benefit is OK, maybe it's not. It's their call. I wouldn't swap positions with them right now, and I try to remember that everytime I think about offering criticism.

If DL goes down there will be plenty of places to spread the blame.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
ord
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 1999 10:34 pm

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 13):
They only agreed to let the 3 man panel replace the bankruptcy judge and to take a temporary additional 14 percent pay cut while the decision is being made. It is not binding arbitration.

That's not the way I understand the situation. There is still a bankruptcy judge (Adlai Hardin), it's just the arbitration panel is making the decision on this. Both management and pilots agreed to binding arbitration on this issue. From one newspaper article dated December 29:

"Delta Air Lines pilots voted on Wednesday to approve a 14 percent pay cut in a deal their union worked out with management to help the bankrupt carrier cope with an expected cash crunch. Delta and the Air Line Pilots Association, which represents the Atlanta-based company's 6,000 pilots, will now try to hammer out a comprehensive agreement by March. If not, the sides have agreed to let the decision be made by a three-person arbitration panel."

From another article:

"Delta and the union, the Air Line Pilots Association, have also set a March 1 deadline to reach an agreement on a permanent pay package that pilots would vote on by March 22. If the union and the airline cannot come to terms, they will submit the dispute to a three-member panel for binding arbitration."
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 14):
If DL goes down there will be plenty of places to spread the blame.

True, however:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 14):
I would think all of this would be easier for the Pilots to take if Delta Management had taken similar cuts, and/or hadn't squandered the previous givebacks by the Pilots.

What makes you think DL management hasn't taken cuts? Not only had there been cuts before Ch.11, they pretty much had all bonuses and severance packages removed last September when DL filed Ch.11. (the severance package has since been reinstated but is only valid if the employee is involuntarily terminated due to the restructuring). Jerry himself took no pay for most of last year and the others (Hauenstein, Bastian, Whitehurst, etc.) are mostly working at below-market wages. And up to 1,000 management personnel are being laid off in the coming months...Many management positions have been cut and are not going to be replaced. I am not saying that anyone should feel sorry for management but at this point, one would be seriously delusional to think that there is any room for ANYONE at DL to be just playing this game for kicks. Many management and non-union personnel at DL are now in a survival mode - they know what's at stake and are pulling out all the stops to ensure there is a viable DL in the years to come.

Squandered the givebacks? Bear in mind the givebacks only happened less than a year before the Ch.11 filing. In between the givebacks and the BK filing, Katrina happened and fuel costs shot through the roof, thus forcing DL to enter Ch.11. DL is in Ch.11 - it cannot squander any cash willy-nilly - practically every expense has to be approved by the court.

[Edited 2006-04-05 19:39:06]
 
H53Epilot
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:18 pm

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting B777ER (Thread starter):
All too often over the past months, management has attempted to mischaracterize the defense of our contract as posturing, gamesmanship and, most recently, saber-rattling. They are wrong," Moak wrote

Then what was the purpose of the "practice strike?"

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 14):
These guys/gals we NOT handed flying jobs at (what was) one of the world's best carriers. They worked for it. Many for years, and at wages below what Tennis and Golf Instructors are paid at the clubhouse. I can see why most of them are taking this stand.

Ummmmm, many if not most have come from the military, many of whom have full, secure government pensions at 43. Commonly known as the largest former military pilot airline, many had very comfortable and extremely secure flying jobs in the military. Not ironically, it's the former military guys who are the most militant about shutting the company down.

[Edited 2006-04-05 20:11:10]
 
surfdog75
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting ORD (Reply 15):
That's not the way I understand the situation. There is still a bankruptcy judge (Adlai Hardin), it's just the arbitration panel is making the decision on this. Both management and pilots agreed to binding arbitration on this issue.

There is still a bankruptcy judge of course. The US Trustee stepped in and brokered the deal in which the 3-man panel would replace the judge on the issue of the company's 1113 petition (request to void the pilot contract) only. It was also hoped that the extra 3 months along with additional temporary concessions would give both sides time to come to an agreement. The board's duties never included arbitrating the contract language, only whether the company can void the current pilot contract. The pilots have said from the beginning that they will not work without a contract.
 
B777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:12 am

All the work a lot of these pilots put in to get to where they are..going down the tubes. Nevermind all the years the other employees put in planning their kids educations, retirements, whether to buy that house or new car and all of it going away because a few men would rather puff there chests out and refuse to broker a deal. What a shame. It is truly the way the world works...a few people determining the fate of many.
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2609
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:48 am

While I understand that many of you are frustrated with the pilots, I can sympathize greatly with their position. There is no doubt that it is a shame that they intend on bringing all of DL down with them, but things come to a point where, even if you end up jobless, the pay simply isn't worth the work anymore.

For example, let's say you earn $100,000 per year - a nice salary. Your company falls on hard times, and they reduce you to $70,000 per year. That's still okay - you have to make some cuts at home, maybe buy less luxurious things, but you're still surviving. And now management is telling you that you're only going to make $50,000 per year - half of what your original salary was, and that doesn't even take the serious cuts in benefits into account. This is where the DL pilots will end up if management gets their way.

Yes, they will end up without any job at all, but things come to a point where working simply isn't worth what they're being paid, and I think that many of you are missing this fact. For many of you (note I said many, not all) commenting on the situation, your jobs aren't being targeted for paycuts like the DL pilots are, so until you're sitting in that situation, I think your view would be rather different.

I'm sure that there will be people out there who will discount my argument because I'm still in high school, I don't have to support a family with a career, etc., but I think that the above argument transcends that.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting DeltaSFO (Reply 3):
A strike is unlikely. A deal will be struck.

I agree. This is all posturing ahead of negotiations. While over 94% of pilots voted to authorize a strike, voting to strike and actually striking are two entirely different things.

[Edited 2006-04-05 21:56:45]
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:10 am

Our company's finances are the most fragile of all the airlines in bankruptcy.

While I am very concerned that I could be wrong, I do not believe the pilots will strike. They recognize the company does not have the ability to withstand a work stoppage.

Regardless of what Lee Moak says, the threats being made are empty ones because these highly intelligent individuals know they will ultimately kill our company.

I am all for negotiated agreements. I fully support the union's right to strike. To strike is their right, but not their obligation. These guys follow their gut feelings and not a highly emotional, very public union leader's recommendation. The NWA mechanics did just that and their careers are over.

I think a mutually acceptable agreement will be reached. It's unfortunate that all of this is being played out in the public eye. It only damages the excellent reputation our company has enjoyed for decades.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 22):
Our company's finances are the most fragile of all the airlines in bankruptcy.

While I am very concerned that I could be wrong, I do not believe the pilots will strike. They recognize the company does not have the ability to withstand a work stoppage.

Regardless of what Lee Moak says, the threats being made are empty ones because these highly intelligent individuals know they will ultimately kill our company.

I am all for negotiated agreements. I fully support the union's right to strike. To strike is their right, but not their obligation. These guys follow their gut feelings and not a highly emotional, very public union leader's recommendation. The NWA mechanics did just that and their careers are over.

I think a mutually acceptable agreement will be reached. It's unfortunate that all of this is being played out in the public eye. It only damages the excellent reputation our company has enjoyed for decades.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I agree with everything you have said. It's thoughtful, unbiased, and unemotional. Good job.
 
H53Epilot
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:18 pm

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 20):
For example, let's say you earn $100,000 per year - a nice salary. Your company falls on hard times, and they reduce you to $70,000 per year. That's still okay - you have to make some cuts at home, maybe buy less luxurious things, but you're still surviving. And now management is telling you that you're only going to make $50,000 per year - half of what your original salary was, and that doesn't even take the serious cuts in benefits into account. This is where the DL pilots will end up if management gets their way.

How about a more realistic example. Let's say you earn $100,000 per year - a nice salary. Your company finally has a great 2 years and you demand a 75% pay raise or you threaten to shut the company down. The company gives in. The company falls on really hard times losing $12 Billion over 5 years and will be out of money in another year. They come to you and demand that your pay be reduced to close to what you were making before the historic profit years. You tell them no way as you have already given some of the raise back and to give any more will mean food stamps for you and your family.
Yes, I am exaggerating a bit, but no more than in the previous example.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:37 am

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 20):
While I understand that many of you are frustrated with the pilots, I can sympathize greatly with their position. There is no doubt that it is a shame that they intend on bringing all of DL down with them, but things come to a point where, even if you end up jobless, the pay simply isn't worth the work anymore.

Well, they can leave Delta and let the flight attendants, gate agents, ramp agents, call center staff, dispatchers, mechanics and other staff ride the bankruptcy and bad times out and get to a point where Delta is profitable then or they can shut the whole airline down and make it so 40,000 people are out of work.

The most junior Captain at Delta is flying the MD-88 and has seven years of seniority. He's making $112,385 right now. Now, let's see what his job opporunties are.

DL (after pay cut): $92,155.70 (decrease 18%)
B6: $45,900 (decrease 60%)
PSA: $18,100 (decrease 83%)
North American: $43,400 (decrease 62%)

AAndrew
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2609
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 24):
DL (after pay cut): $92,155.70 (decrease 18%)
B6: $45,900 (decrease 60%)
PSA: $18,100 (decrease 83%)
North American: $43,400 (decrease 62%)

Valid point. I hadn't realized the rather dramatic disparities between the payscales at the different carriers.
 
KabAir
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:06 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:57 pm

I don't have a lot of hope in the pilots, I think they really would strike if left to their own designs. My hope is in their wives/husbands/lovers.

Wife: What are you doing with that picket sign?
Pilot: We're striking today. The airline will probably shut down within a week. Ha, are we going to show managment!!
Wife: Uh, so where are we going to live?
Pilot: We're moving in with my mom.
Wife: No, YOU'RE moving in with your mom, I'm keeping the house and you can pay for it with your unemployment benefits.
Pilot: I won't get unemployment since I walked out.
Wife: So what are you going to do for money?
Pilot: Fly for a regional for $20,000 per year.
Wife: What would you make at Delta, even with all your cuts?
Pilot: $92,000 per year.
Wife: Uh huh. And what would management walk away with?
Pilot: 12 million dollar golden parachutes and equal paying jobs at other major American companies.
Wife: Wow, you're sure going to show them....
Pilot: Crap, I sound like a retard don't I?...

So don't fear folks, cooler minds will prevail! (If things in their households are anything like in mine.)  Smile
wow, there sure are a lot of expert economists on this forum....
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:55 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:27 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 19):
While I understand that many of you are frustrated with the pilots, I can sympathize greatly with their position. There is no doubt that it is a shame that they intend on bringing all of DL down with them, but things come to a point where, even if you end up jobless, the pay simply isn't worth the work anymore.

For example, let's say you earn $100,000 per year - a nice salary. Your company falls on hard times, and they reduce you to $70,000 per year. That's still okay - you have to make some cuts at home, maybe buy less luxurious things, but you're still surviving. And now management is telling you that you're only going to make $50,000 per year - half of what your original salary was, and that doesn't even take the serious cuts in benefits into account. This is where the DL pilots will end up if management gets their way.

Yes, they will end up without any job at all, but things come to a point where working simply isn't worth what they're being paid, and I think that many of you are missing this fact. For many of you (note I said many, not all) commenting on the situation, your jobs aren't being targeted for paycuts like the DL pilots are, so until you're sitting in that situation, I think your view would be rather different.

Ok, I agree to a certain point except...

No one makes them stay at Delta, if they don't like it they need to move on, I guarantee someone else would be MORE than happy to take their position.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 21):

I think a mutually acceptable agreement will be reached. It's unfortunate that all of this is being played out in the public eye. It only damages the excellent reputation our company has enjoyed for decades.

And even with the best PR firms in the world, it'll bite them for many years to come.

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 24):
Well, they can leave Delta and let the flight attendants, gate agents, ramp agents, call center staff, dispatchers, mechanics and other staff ride the bankruptcy and bad times out and get to a point where Delta is profitable then or they can shut the whole airline down and make it so 40,000 people are out of work.

The most junior Captain at Delta is flying the MD-88 and has seven years of seniority. He's making $112,385 right now. Now, let's see what his job opporunties are.

DL (after pay cut): $92,155.70 (decrease 18%)
B6: $45,900 (decrease 60%)
PSA: $18,100 (decrease 83%)
North American: $43,400 (decrease 62%)

Not only the 40,000+ other people that work for Delta, but all of their vendors and the vendors employees, lets screw them too while were at it, because that makes perfect sense.

Not to mention the fact that finding another piloting job (especially right away) isn't exactly going to be easy, especially if they want to continue living where they are.

Stop the union BS, people aren't going to feel sorry for you when you make that much money, especially when you leave them stranded on some business trip or the vacation of their life. Gerry Grinstein might make more money, but lets also take a look at the amount of work he does on a daily basis (7-days a week, 365 days a year.), shall we?
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4475
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:45 pm

KabAir, thats just awesome! Let's hop ethese cooler heads prevail.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
PGV
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:08 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:46 pm

Quoting KabAir (Reply 26):
So don't fear folks, cooler minds will prevail! (If things in their households are anything like in mine.)

Well...you're partly right. While I agree this is all posturing and what not...DALPA is like the rest of ALPA, it winds everybody up good.

Can personally relate...I went through a strike a few years back that I was bitterly against because I had just bought a new house, had 2 kids, and was living within my means. To me the money coming in was really good at the time and I did not want to see it stop. It was all about pay increases, benefits, and other crap. We had just blocked into LAX when we got the message to move the airplane to a pad and we were released. Contractors would haul them out to the desert in a few hours. The same F/O that was preaching to me for the past 2 days about how we don't have to take this shit, it's time to teach them a lesson, blah blah blah is running to the picket line. About 2 hours later he is losing it because his hotel res was cancelled, credit card shut off, and jumpseat privs removed with no ride for him back to MIA. He's calling his wife ready to sell the house. After the "we really quit our jobs" reality sunk in everybody had a different look on their face.

I told them to not count on me in the picket, bought my own ticket home, called scheduling and told them I would not cross any pickets...but just call me when that games are over and it's time to come back to work.
"To hell with a Ferrari...give me a Super 70!"
 
milesrich
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:46 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:16 pm

Delta has seriously misjudged the pilot group, which by the way is much smaller, than it used to be. These guys are no dummies. They did not earn their wings by going out to PDK and taking lessons, and accumulating 500 hours, and then buying a job. Most of them were USAF or USN flight officers, and they, believe it or not, have management skills. They will find other jobs, maybe not at $200K, but certainly at $100K. So they figure, I might have to bite the bullet for a year or so, and I may not find another job in the cockpit, but for what they want to pay me, I can find something else. Then there is this slight problem. Under Delta's proposal, if the pilots accept it, last month the airline would have lost only $175 Million. And the pilots know that with those kind of losses, and the fuel prices staying high, and airline seats stuck at low prices, there probably is no future at Delta anyway. My wife will be unemployed, but come next Saturday, I think the fat lady will sing, and it will be over.
 
goboeing
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:23 pm

Kabair

You asanine little story is the product of your imagination. I think it'd go more like this:

Wife (pilot): They want us to take another paycut.
Husband: What are you gonna do?
Wife (pilot): Well...we already took a 1/3 paycut but I guess we'll just take this one too. Oh and I'm not going to get a pension, so let's hope you get a raise.
Husband: I don't think you all should take that from a company that brings in $15 billion a year. If they don't have $325 to pay their employees properly, they've got bigger problems to worry about anyway.
Wife (pilot): Yeah, some guy named Kabair thought you'd kick me out for this, but I think I'm going to support a strike to draw the line with management.
Husband: RIGHT ON!
 
KabAir
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:06 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:14 pm

GoBoeing,

While I enjoyed your little story revision, I think you missed a main point. So forget the whole marital relationship thing and focus on this tidbit:

No one is going to "show" management. If DL goes under, the managers (at the least the upper managers, who are the ones the pilots want to stand up to) will be just fine. Their bank accounts will be just fine. Their long-term careers will be just fine. They'll probably all get new jobs with some other company paying just as much, if not more. I'm not saying management is right and pilots are wrong here, I'm just stating something I think is probably fact. If I'm wrong about cooler heads (spouses, etc) prevailing, then my guess is that 2 months after DL folds, the former DL management folks won't hardly be giving the whole thing a minute's thought. They'll be sitting in a nice cushy seat somewhere else making great $$. The DL pilots however will think about it every day for the rest of their lives. Like I'm sure many former EA workers do. They WILL NOT be able to get jobs making the same or better $$ than they are making now. Management will.

So if DL pilots think they need to do this and it's the right thing, then fine. But I just hope they don't have the illusion that they're going to "show management". The managers will be just fine. Sucks, but it's the truth.
wow, there sure are a lot of expert economists on this forum....
 
goboeing
Posts: 2429
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:20 pm

The management will be fine either way, as you said. They're treating their workers like crap, which is the point of this strike. Enough is enough as far as the concessions go. The pilots are showing them that they are at the breaking point.

It is that simple, and nobody on this forum full of know-it-alls is going to sway the pendulum either way. Might as well go read about bad A-380 wings, or NWA DC-9s!
 
gift4tbone
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:25 pm

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:40 pm

Quoting KabAir (Reply 32):
So if DL pilots think they need to do this and it's the right thing, then fine. But I just hope they don't have the illusion that they're going to "show management". The managers will be just fine. Sucks, but it's the truth.

I agree, and I hope many DL pilots read that, and understand it.

I just hope they come to a deal. ANY deal.

-Tony@PVD
Top 3 airports: PVD 23.9%(138 flights), PHL 14.7%(85 flights), PHX 10.2%(59 flights)
 
kl662
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:39 pm

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:54 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 19):
For example, let's say you earn $100,000 per year - a nice salary. Your company falls on hard times, and they reduce you to $70,000 per year. That's still okay - you have to make some cuts at home, maybe buy less luxurious things, but you're still surviving. And now management is telling you that you're only going to make $50,000 per year - half of what your original salary was, and that doesn't even take the serious cuts in benefits into account. This is where the DL pilots will end up if management gets their way.

If my company pays me less than I think I'm worth -- for whatever the reason, be it hard times, evil management, fuel prices, etc. -- I'd go find another employer who will pay me what I think I'm worth.

As for those who may ask were my loyalty to the company is, my response would simply be that the company has no loyalty to me.

But, I guess the rub with being in a unionized industry is that you really don't have the freedom to change employers. From my admittedly limited perspective, it's a forced loyalty: the employee gets locked into a seniority-based compensation system where leaving isn't practical, and the employer's ability to adjust to industry changes is hampered by an ever-looming threat of a strike. That's not to say there aren't advantages to both sides: unions can force safety and labor law issues in advance of formal legislation (though some may argue that this function is obviated in today's environment), and employers have a rather predictable and stable work force.

For some employee groups, where perhaps the barriers to entry are low, I can understand the appeal of such an arrangement: it affords some degree of job security at the price of job mobility. But, becoming a pilot isn't all that easy or generally affordable; it requires licenses and certifications. I've never really understood why pilots feel unions necessary. I suppose there are some physicians' unions, but I don't think the average doctor is a member of a union...

Maybe I'm missing something? I ask this honestly: is there something about being a pilot that makes a union necessary? Is it that a freshly minted pilot is the same in the eyes of an airline as one with 25 years of experience? Do flight hours count for anything?

Having grown up in a part of the country that doesn't really have a tradition of unions (Texas), I can appreciate that there may be a cultural bias in my interpretation of such a subject. However, I have to believe that there is some logic to the way things are today.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 1038
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:19 pm

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 30):
They will find other jobs, maybe not at $200K, but certainly at $100K. So they figure, I might have to bite the bullet for a year or so, and I may not find another job in the cockpit, but for what they want to pay me, I can find something else.

there experience is in the flight deck for numerious years with no experience elsewhere, what are you talking about?
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:47 pm

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 30):
Delta has seriously misjudged the pilot group, which by the way is much smaller, than it used to be. These guys are no dummies. They did not earn their wings by going out to PDK and taking lessons, and accumulating 500 hours, and then buying a job. Most of them were USAF or USN flight officers, and they, believe it or not, have management skills. They will find other jobs, maybe not at $200K, but certainly at $100K. So they figure, I might have to bite the bullet for a year or so, and I may not find another job in the cockpit, but for what they want to pay me, I can find something else. Then there is this slight problem. Under Delta's proposal, if the pilots accept it, last month the airline would have lost only $175 Million. And the pilots know that with those kind of losses, and the fuel prices staying high, and airline seats stuck at low prices, there probably is no future at Delta anyway. My wife will be unemployed, but come next Saturday, I think the fat lady will sing, and it will be over.

This is FantasyLand. Give me an example of a job that a pilot can get in short oder for $100,000 per year (a 50% pay cut) who is currently making $200,000 per year! And then give me several thousand more for the rest of them. Seriously - Give me ONE example. Or, just gimme a break.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:52 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 10):
I could be wrong, but I hope not, as I would hate to see Delta collapse just because the pilots won't give more concessions.

Maybe if management wasn't trying to obtain more than is really needed from the pilots, they wouldn't be in a mood to strike.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 13):
I would think all of this would be easier for the Pilots to take if Delta Management had taken similar cuts, and/or hadn't squandered the previous givebacks by the Pilots

 checkmark 

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 30):
Most of them were USAF or USN flight officers, and they, believe it or not, have management skills. They will find other jobs, maybe not at $200K, but certainly at $100K. So they figure, I might have to bite the bullet for a year or so, and I may not find another job in the cockpit, but for what they want to pay me, I can find something else.

My brother falls into this category. He's already been offered a job that pays a little more than 100K.

Quoting KL662 (Reply 35):
If my company pays me less than I think I'm worth -- for whatever the reason, be it hard times, evil management, fuel prices, etc. -- I'd go find another employer who will pay me what I think I'm worth.

As for those who may ask were my loyalty to the company is, my response would simply be that the company has no loyalty to me

Excellent point. Why should the pilots be loyal to a management team that shows no loyalty to them?

Again, I'm not saying that the pilots don't have to accept a pay cut. They do. But I find it very interesting that over at United, where the pilots also faced significant pay cuts, there was never serious talk of a strike - at least publicly. Why is that? Maybe it's because management was open and honest with the pilots, who recognized they needed to pitch in to help.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 33):
The management will be fine either way, as you said. They're treating their workers like crap, which is the point of this strike. Enough is enough as far as the concessions go. The pilots are showing them that they are at the breaking point.

That's great - the pilots will show the managers, who have transferable skills, that they are at the breaking point. And, who's going to be spending sleepless nights trying to figure out how to pay the mortgage and the kids college tuition? It's not going to be the managers. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. We've been down this road before. Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

The managers (lower, middle, and upper) will tell the story about how sad it was when DL went down, but they found new jobs pretty quickly and moved on. The pilots will tell the story for the rest of their lives - how nothing was ever the same and how it wasn't worth walking out - it would have been better to stay and fight for the airline, even though management was atrocious.
 
SBN580
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:55 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:59 pm

Quoting KabAir (Reply 32):
So if DL pilots think they need to do this and it's the right thing, then fine. But I just hope they don't have the illusion that they're going to "show management". The managers will be just fine. Sucks, but it's the truth.

Yes, they will show management. But if Delta folded would the now out of work flight attendant go, "Yeah! You showed 'em pilots!" How about the customer service agent? A ground crew member? The mechanic at the Delta TOC in the ATL? The man who works at the pretzel shop at CVG? The manager of the AVIS office at SLC? The decision of the few will impact on the many. Just food for thought.  scratchchin 
North Central: Good People Made Their Airline Great! FLY MD-90 POWER! Keep 'em Flying DELTA Family!
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:01 pm

Quoting KL662 (Reply 35):
But, I guess the rub with being in a unionized industry is that you really don't have the freedom to change employers. From my admittedly limited perspective, it's a forced loyalty: the employee gets locked into a seniority-based compensation system where leaving isn't practical, and the employer's ability to adjust to industry changes is hampered by an ever-looming threat of a strike. That's not to say there aren't advantages to both sides: unions can force safety and labor law issues in advance of formal legislation (though some may argue that this function is obviated in today's environment), and employers have a rather predictable and stable work force.

For some employee groups, where perhaps the barriers to entry are low, I can understand the appeal of such an arrangement: it affords some degree of job security at the price of job mobility. But, becoming a pilot isn't all that easy or generally affordable; it requires licenses and certifications. I've never really understood why pilots feel unions necessary. I suppose there are some physicians' unions, but I don't think the average doctor is a member of a union...

Maybe I'm missing something? I ask this honestly: is there something about being a pilot that makes a union necessary? Is it that a freshly minted pilot is the same in the eyes of an airline as one with 25 years of experience? Do flight hours count for anything?

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. My father was a pilot and was in ALPA. I spent almost ten years in airline management, and what I learned was that you live and die by the sword. I never had any job security, I never got paid overtime when I worked long hours, I didn't make the money that my fellow grad student friends made in other industries, but I always knew my skills were transferable. The thing is, I love the industry and I am willing to make less money to stay in it (even take a pay cut, which I have done to find a more stable and enjoyable job within the industry). Union members have built-in job security and a whole host of other benefits. But one thing they don't have is mobility, and that stinks, but that's what the unions created for their members, and now it's put the members in a terrible situation where there is no good outcome. Unfortunately, it's the nature of the structure at the legacy carriers.
 
H53Epilot
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:18 pm

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:56 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 38):
My brother falls into this category. He's already been offered a job that pays a little more than 100K

I seriously doubt that unless it's his family business. No civilian management experience. When's the last time he ever supervised people? 15 years ago in the Air Force? What job qualifications and recency of experience could he possibly have for someone to offer him 100k a year? Someone offered him a job just in case Delta folds? Doubt it.
Point is, the pilots are walking on thin ice with no fall back, equivalent paying jobs anywhere. Management knows this and is why they won't back down.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2231
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 24):
Well, they can leave Delta and let the flight attendants, gate agents, ramp agents, call center staff, dispatchers, mechanics and other staff ride the bankruptcy and bad times out and get to a point where Delta is profitable then or they can shut the whole airline down and make it so 40,000 people are out of work.

I'm pretty sure 5,000 pilots giving a letter of resignation to their chief pilot would shut down the airline as well.

Quoting ORD (Reply 14):
That's not the way I understand the situation. There is still a bankruptcy judge (Adlai Hardin), it's just the arbitration panel is making the decision on this. Both management and pilots agreed to binding arbitration on this issue. From one newspaper article dated December 29:

Those newspaper articles were written by moronic reporters, who didn't care enough to get it right. The arbitration panel has one decision. Whether DL can throw out the contract or not. That is all. They DO NOT have the power to impose any sort of new contract.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2231
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:40 pm

Quoting SBN580 (Reply 40):
The decision of the few will impact on the many. Just food for thought.

Yes it will, but not just the people you mentioned. It will impact many other airline pilots in this country. If the pilots at DL give in to management, what is to stop AA, CO, US, UA, and others from going back to their pilots and demanding more. ALPA will have again shown the lack of backbone necessary to stop management from walking all over them, and management at other airlines will take note. Someone has to make a stand, or the race to the bottom in the pilot profession will only continue. It appears that the DL pilots might be the pilots that make that stand.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
MattRB
Posts: 1358
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:49 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 44):
If the pilots at DL give in to management, what is to stop AA, CO, US, UA, and others from going back to their pilots and demanding more. ALPA will have again shown the lack of backbone necessary to stop management from walking all over them, and management at other airlines will take note. Someone has to make a stand, or the race to the bottom in the pilot profession will only continue. It appears that the DL pilots might be the pilots that make that stand.

 redflag  Sorry, but this Chicken Little arguement doesn't fly. US & UA have already cut as much as they needed to to make it through bankruptcy protection. DL is simply trying to bring their pilots inline with the rest of the industry.

DALPA's stand is nothing more than union rhetoric to make the leadership look like they are doing something so that when the cuts do come (and make no mistake, they will), Mr. Moak and his compatriots will be able to go to the membership and say 'We tried, but ultimately we need to do this so that we'll survive'.

It's nothing more than a BS CYA maneuver by the union leadership. The sad thing is, the sheep are buying into it.

Think about it just for a second. The unions strike threat is completely and utterly empty. They shut down the airline and they'll have 42000 fellow employees gunning for each and every one of them for costing them their jobs. Not only that, the pilots will garner a reputation in the industry as people you won't want working for your airline and receive zip in unemployment benefits if they do walk.

It's complete and utter BS being spewed by DALPA and 89% of the membership is eating it up like it was manna from heaven.

They need to pull their collective heads out of their collective asses and take the cut. 70% of something is phenomenally better than 0% of something.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1563
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting KL662 (Reply 35):
Maybe I'm missing something? I ask this honestly: is there something about being a pilot that makes a union necessary? Is it that a freshly minted pilot is the same in the eyes of an airline as one with 25 years of experience? Do flight hours count for anything?

There is a book about the ALPA and it's beginnings, I believe it's titled "Flying the Line." Someone else correct me if I have that title wrong.
Anyway, the book explains fairly clearly why the pilots want/need a union.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:50 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 45):
Sorry, but this Chicken Little arguement doesn't fly. US & UA have already cut as much as they needed to to make it through bankruptcy protection. DL is simply trying to bring their pilots inline with the rest of the industry.

DALPA's stand is nothing more than union rhetoric to make the leadership look like they are doing something so that when the cuts do come (and make no mistake, they will), Mr. Moak and his compatriots will be able to go to the membership and say 'We tried, but ultimately we need to do this so that we'll survive'.

It's nothing more than a BS CYA maneuver by the union leadership. The sad thing is, the sheep are buying into it.

Think about it just for a second. The unions strike threat is completely and utterly empty. They shut down the airline and they'll have 42000 fellow employees gunning for each and every one of them for costing them their jobs. Not only that, the pilots will garner a reputation in the industry as people you won't want working for your airline and receive zip in unemployment benefits if they do walk.

It's complete and utter BS being spewed by DALPA and 89% of the membership is eating it up like it was manna from heaven.

They need to pull their collective heads out of their collective asses and take the cut. 70% of something is phenomenally better than 0% of something.

And, that folks is pretty much the HARD TRUTH. Although, I think many of the DL pilots know the union leaders are just BS'ing and playing CYA, but they still voted to authorize a strike for symbolic purposes. How many would actually strike if the foolish union leaders called for a strike? I'd venture to guess a number closer to "1 - the percent that voted to authorize the strike," i.e. 1.00 - .947 = 5.3%. Maybe I'm too low, but there is no way that if the day comes and a strike is called that anywhere near 95% of the pilots will walk - NEVER!

The last thing the union leaders want is a strike (they'd lose their jobs); the only thing worse for the union leaders personally would be a strike that was unsuccessful, i.e the rank and file don't walk (they'd lose their jobs and be disgraced).
 
PGV
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:08 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:29 am

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 30):
They will find other jobs, maybe not at $200K, but certainly at $100K.

I would love to hear some of your ideas, or example as to where all these Delta pilots are going to go for at least $100k/year? Especially the junior ones checked out the 80's who don't have alot of experience on other jets and require the investment of retraining by their future employer??

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 46):
There is a book about the ALPA and it's beginnings, I believe it's titled "Flying the Line." Someone else correct me if I have that title wrong.
Anyway, the book explains fairly clearly why the pilots want/need a union.

ALPA actually published the book and put it out. While it is a good history on why a pilot's union was created, it also does a good job at describing the airline industry roots as well. But remember...it is written by the union!

Each new ALPA member used to receive a copy upon joining...not sure if that is still the case.
"To hell with a Ferrari...give me a Super 70!"
 
jumbojet
Posts: 1038
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: The Latest From Dalpa Just Out.

Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:59 am

Don't you think that DALPA should be more concerned about trying to find delta pilots other jobs with whomever instead of shutting down an airline and putting tens of thousands of innoccent workers out of a job? Why can't DALPA take that stance instead of striking, they should help the pilots who want to bail out get other jobs, makes more sense to me.