starstream707
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Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:41 pm

I saw the caption in this photo and wondered if anyone knew anything about it. What kind of airworthiness directives were issued by Boeing as a result of the break up? I thought 707's were built like battleships, not typical to lose one to turbulence.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mel Lawrence

 
JAAlbert
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:43 pm

I've never heard of an airliner breaking up mid-flight due to turbulence! Any other such accidents caused by turbulence?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:46 pm

The aircraft encountered severe clear air turbulence as the pilot flew near Mount Fuji to give the passengers a view. Aircraft broke apart due to excessive forces.

http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/v...E&airline=British+Overseas+Airways
International Homo of Mystery
 
dc863
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:51 pm

The 707 was hit by a rolling wave of air coming from Mt Fuji. It slammed into the side of the aircraft equivalent to 8 Gs. Earlier that day a Navy A-4 Skyhawk was almost shaken to pieces according to it's pilot by severe CAT near Mt Fuji. A passenger onboard G-APFE was filming the mountain from his window seat when the rolling wave of air hit the aircraft. The film was found by investigators and analyzed. It showed the mountain and countryside followed by something jarring the camera and then pictures of the seatback and floor carpeting. Quite a disturbing accident. Wien Air Alaska lost a F-27 in 1968 in upstate Alaska when CAT ripped one wing off owing to the severity of the turbulence.
 
starstream707
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:59 pm

My goodness... that had to be some wind to take down a 707. Seriously.
 
trekster
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:22 pm

The pilot was also off track a bit, and closer then he should have been to the Mountain to give the passengers a view of Mt Fuji, which did not really help matters, but you cant really predict CAT, well, back then.

Not a good accident at all.
Where does the time go???
 
rktsci
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:30 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 1):
I've never heard of an airliner breaking up mid-flight due to turbulence! Any other such accidents caused by turbulence?

The Lockheed Electra had issues with the combination of severe turbulance and engine strut mount resonance. A few aircraft were lost.
 
andessmf
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:49 pm

The Electra issues were also design based. It was one of the reasons why the program wasnt successful. Lockheed fixed the plane and it became a workhorse for many years.

I have a picture of the BOAC 707 passing by the DC-8 that had crashed in Tokyo the night before. Imagine preparing for take-off and seen the wrecked plane pass by, only to have a worse fate befall you minutes later.
 
MrMcCoy
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:54 pm

About 5 years ago, I climbed Mt. Fuji in an 8 hour zig-zag ascent. It was HARD. But what I remember the most was the change in wind strength when the sun began shifting around the peak, and a sudden *constant* blast of air.

A helicopter was about a mile away taking photos/film when the gust came, and that helo just about flipped on it's back.
It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
 
777fan
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:45 pm

Anyone that's flown off of the east coast of Japan can probably attest to the veracity of the turbulence that's often associated with the Siberian Express jet stream roaring down south before hitting the mountains on Honshu.

Come to think of it, I can't really remember a flight off the east coast of Japan that wasn't at least turbulent enough to warrant the seat belt sign and/or seated FAs.
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
AR385
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:13 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 1):
I've never heard of an airliner breaking up mid-flight due to turbulence! Any other such accidents caused by turbulence?

A few nasty accidents I can recall:

NW Boeing 720-051B N724US Feb 12, 1963 FN#724
BOAC Boeing 707-436 G-APFE Mar 5, 1966
Braniff BAC-111-203AE N1553 Aug 6, 1966
DL DC-9-14 N3305L May 30,1972 FN#205
AA Boeing 727-95 N1963 Apr 17,1976 FN#963

And there are a few others I really can't recall with such detail. Like the Austral plane in Argentina in the 90's that went down in Uruguay making a freaking crater after entering a thunderstorm.
 
starstream707
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:00 pm

The DL 727 coming into DFW in the 1980's that got slapped into the ground is another one that comes to mind from turbulence. The wind does strange things sometimes. I've heard on the news a time or two in the last decade where flights will be cruising along and just drop altitude (500-1000ft or so) because of some kind of shelf of air and stuff gets slammed around. I always ride with my seatbelt on.
 
MrMcCoy
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 10):
Braniff BAC-111-203AE N1553 Aug 6, 1966

This one flew right into a damn thunderhead. Not smart, but onboard radar at that time wasn't as clear as it is today, either.
It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Starstream707 (Reply 11):
The DL 727 coming into DFW in the 1980's that got slapped into the ground is another one that comes to mind from turbulence

If you're referring to the crash on 8/2/85, it was a L-1011 and was caused by wind shear. The end result was the installment of Doppler radar at most commercial airports across the US.
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
CV990A
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:06 am

In his book 'Comets to Concordes' Peter Duffy touches briefly on this accident, and the resulting checks and modifications made to the 707 as a result- if I remember right, the tailplane was strengthened, and checks of the engine mounts were required- but I could be a bit off there.
Kittens Give Morbo Gas
 
MEA-707
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:11 am

I would discount the Delta L-1011 accident in 1985 as well, it didn't break up in mid air. There is quite a (longer) list of weather related landing or take off accidents.

Adding to the above list, we had an accident in the Netherlands in 1981 which made a deep impression on me as a kid; a F-28 Fellowship of NLM Cityhopper had its wing torn off in turbulence after taking off from Rotterdam. It happened on the same day Sadat was killed but in Holland it still was the nr 1 news item.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
PhilSquares
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 10):
AA Boeing 727-95 N1963 Apr 17,1976 FN#963

That was a late go-around decision. http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19760427-1&lang=en
Fly fast, live slow
 
rdwelch
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:40 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 10):
AR385

Not a break up, but I believe the UA 737 near COS in 4/91 was due to CAT rolling off of Pikes Peak. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Gus
They say I have ADD, but they don't understand..Oh look! A chicken!
 
richierich
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting Rdwelch (Reply 17):
Not a break up, but I believe the UA 737 near COS in 4/91 was due to CAT rolling off of Pikes Peak. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

I thought this accident was in the bucket of "undetermined". I do know that investigators spent a lot of time looking at the rudder assemblies of 737s after this accident, and more notably, the US crash in Aliquippa, PA around the same time period. As with the PIT crash, very little is known of why this crash occurred. I don't know if winds aloft were ever defined as the cause...
None shall pass!!!!
 
shankly
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:06 am

BOAC also suffered a similar incident with a VC-10 over the Andes

http://www.vc10.net/History/incident...ml#G-ASIX%20The%20Andes%20incident

It is believed that the integrity of the Vickers airframe and rear mounted engines played a significant part in this not being a repeat accident
L1011 - P F M
 
starstream707
Posts: 171
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:13 am

I was riding back to DEN from SFO on a UA 744 in the summer of 1999 and as we descended over the front range it got quite bumpy and I remember the wings flexing heavily.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 13):
If you're referring to the crash on 8/2/85, it was a L-1011 and was caused by wind shear. The end result was the installment of Doppler radar at most commercial airports across the US.

I didn't know about this one. What happened?

I was talking about this ship:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Juerg Schmid



EDIT: Was the Tri-Star due to microburst? This one had no flaps on take-off. It seems like a 72 crashed at DFW from a microburst.

[Edited 2006-04-06 20:28:50]
 
CF-CPI
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:30 am

Starstream, that 727, N473DA, was involved in a takeoff accident derived from the fact that the captain neglected to set the flaps for t.o. It was similar to the NW MD-80 at DTW the year before, though I think the aircraft never really did gain much altitude and eventually pancaked back onto the airport property and overshot the runway. Some people were killed IIRC.

The fundamental problem was traced to cockpit discipline (or lack of it) during taxi for take-off. A FA was visiting and chatting with the crew and generally distracting them.

I remember reading an account from a passenger in another aircraft who witnessed the DL 727 trying to get airborne. They could see it struggling and they were cheering it on, hoping it would make it.
 
AR385
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 16):
That was a late go-around decision

When in the flare, strong turbulence rolled the aircraft where the wingtip almost hit the ground. The pilot corrected. But same turbulence kept the plane afloat more than it should have. The result being that the pilot slammed the plane onto the runway, but then decided to go around, increasing power, then decided not to go around and then well, ran off the runway into a gas station.

But turbulence on the flare was what initiated the chain of events.
 
MKEdude
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Starstream707 (Reply 20):
Quoting 777fan (Reply 13):
If you're referring to the crash on 8/2/85, it was a L-1011 and was caused by wind shear. The end result was the installment of Doppler radar at most commercial airports across the US.

I didn't know about this one. What happened?

I was talking about this ship:

The '88 DL crash at DFW was pure pilot error. The 727 was on it's way to SLC when it crashed after takeoff because the flaps were in the wrong position. Most people got out alive, about 15 or so died. This was eerily similar to the NW accident at DTW a year later.

A footnote to both DL crashes at DFW is that one dentist from Jackson, MS
was a passenger on both flights. Talk about lightning striking twice in the same place!
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
Gavilan
Posts: 2
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:33 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 7):

Could you please post the photograph?
 
mlsrar
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 23):
The '88 DL crash at DFW was pure pilot error. The 727 was on it's way to SLC when it crashed after takeoff because the flaps were in the wrong position. Most people got out alive, about 15 or so died. This was eerily similar to the NW accident at DTW a year later.

Similar, execpt for the fact that NW lost all but one young child, whereas most of the complement from the DL incident walked away.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
MEA-707
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:04 am

I think we distract from the original subject. How tragic, Delta's 85 and 88 accidents and Northwest 87 MD-80 don't have anything to do with the original topic; an inflight breakup. In the 50 years of jet operations, apart from the Comet design errors, I can only think of 4 jet accidents (thanks to AR385)

NW Boeing 720-051B N724US Feb 12, 1963 FN#724
BOAC Boeing 707-436 G-APFE Mar 5, 1966
Braniff BAC-111-203AE N1553 Aug 6, 1966
NLM F-28 Fellowship PH-CHI Nov 6, 1981

in which capable airframes broke up due to weather. There are many more weather related accidents of course, like due to icing, but I think the pure turbulence break ups are relatively few, especially since more advanced weather radars etc.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:13 am

I strongly recommend for further reading, "Air Disasters - Volume One" (actually all four volumes) by MacArthur Job. He gives a very extensive detail about the incident. The title of the chapter is "When The Sky Is Blue, Fuji Is Angry". Some of the highlights:

There had been a CPAir crash on the grounds at Haneda the evening before:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19660304-0&lang=en

There is a picture in the book of the doomed 707 passing by the wreck site.

The day before had been very cloudy (why the DC-8 didn't realize it was too low), but the Siberian jet stream was as strong as ever recorded that day, clearing all the clouds and leaving very clear views. Mt. Fuji was actually visible from Tokyo that day, something rather unusual.

The captain had requested a westerly track upon departure to give his passengers a clear view, which is why they were so close to the mountain.

When they were 10 nm south of Fuji, it was like the 707 hit a brick wall from the vicious rotor effect of the strong winds on the lee side of the mountain. The tail and all four engines were almost immediately snapped off, and the plane spun out of countrol like a falling leaf. The nose separated from the rest of the fuselage halfway down.

Interestingly, There are only two pictures of G-APFE, both taken on the day of the accident at Tokyo just before take-off, but no other pictures of the doomed plane. Yet the author includes a picture of that very same plane, G-APFE, in a different chapter, the loss of 707-436 G-ARWE in 1968 (burned at LHR). Hmmmm....
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
Pacific
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:20 am

Despite the 150% rule, it's quite a pity nature still goes one higher.
 
MissedApproach
Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:12 am

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:52 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 18):
I thought this accident was in the bucket of "undetermined".

I think the NTSB had originally classified it as CAT or undetermined. There was a lot of controversy due to subsequent 737 crashes, & the rudder eventually became suspect. It's listed as the official cause now.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 27):
recommend for further reading, "Air Disasters

Great books, I wish he'd write some more!  bigthumbsup 
Can you hear me now?
 
isitsafenow
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:22 am

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:04 am

Quoting Starstream707 (Reply 4):
that had to be some wind to take down a 707. Seriously.

The NW 720B in 1963 out of MIA was ripped apart in a climb out a few miles from MIA. That was a heck of shot of turbulance! Others have already been posted....the BN 111 out of MKC, the BOAC 707 which had the vertical stab snapped off along with an engine or two and let me add the Southern DC 9 over Georgia...the intense rain shut down both engines and the crew had to put it down on a two lane....they didn't make it.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
starstream707
Posts: 171
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 30):
The NW 720B in 1963 out of MIA was ripped apart in a climb out a few miles from MIA.

Any details on this or more so, any photos of this aircraft?
 
JBirdAV8r
Posts: 3454
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RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 10):
DL DC-9-14 N3305L May 30,1972 FN#205

I believe that was the crash at Greater Southwest (just south of DFW) on a crew training flight? If it was, I believe the cause of that was wake turbulence from an American DC-10 in front of it, and I don't think it was structural failure--"just" an inflight upset that was unrecoverable so close to the ground.

Quoting Starstream707 (Reply 11):
The DL 727 coming into DFW in the 1980's that got slapped into the ground is another one that comes to mind from turbulence.

As mentioned, that was an L-1011, but that's just splitting hairs.
I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5754
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:22 pm

I found a picture the other day on a website that was apparently taken from the ground and showed the BOAC 707 in final stages of breaking up.

The link is http://www.planecrashinfo.com/w660305.htm.

-Dave

[Edited 2006-04-07 05:23:56]
-Dave
 
AR385
Posts: 6766
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 32):
I believe that was the crash at Greater Southwest (just south of DFW) on a crew training flight? If it was, I believe the cause of that was wake turbulence from an American DC-10 in front of it, and I don't think it was structural failure--"just" an inflight upset that was unrecoverable so close to the ground.

You are right. It was wake turbulence. However, I thought to include it given the fact that it was, after all, due to turbulence. It was not clear to me wether the post was just about general accidents due to turbulence or limited to jet-airliners braking up in cruise or near cruise due to turbulence.

In any case. Nowadays, you are more likely to suffer an upset in an airliner, due to wake turbulence, or other type, like windshear induced turbulence than the turbulence that brought down tha BOAC jet and the other similar cases.
 
dc863
Posts: 1466
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:13 pm

Quoting Starstream707 (Reply 31):
Any details on this or more so, any photos of this aircraft?

It entered a severe line of T storms and broke up after being thrown into a dive.
As for G-APFE I do have a postcard that shows this very aircraft.
One other aircraft whose demise is identical to the NW 720B is an Branif Electra II which brokeup while flying through a severe Tstorm in April '68 on it's way to Dallas Love Field.
 
AR385
Posts: 6766
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting Dc863 (Reply 35):
It entered a severe line of T storms and broke up after being thrown into a dive.

Also, there was some over-correcting by the PF that contributed to the break-up.
 
777fan
Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:09 pm

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:43 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 34):
However, I thought to include it given the fact that it was, after all, due to turbulence.

If that's the case, you are obligated to mention the AA A300 that crashed in Queens just a few years ago. IMO, wake turbulence doesn't apply to this thread. Neither does the DL L-1011 which I referred to above - I was merely attempting to confirm a previous post. Regardless, here's a link:

http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-dl191.shtml
DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
 
AR385
Posts: 6766
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:36 pm

Quoting 777fan (Reply 37):
If that's the case, you are obligated to mention the AA A300 that crashed in Queens just a few years ago. IMO, wake turbulence doesn't apply to this thread.

Not really, there is still a debate about wether they actually encountered wake turbulence. Regardless, here's a link

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20011112-0&lang=en
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1918
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:38 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 30):
the Southern DC 9 over Georgia...the intense rain shut down both engines and the crew had to put it down on a two lane....they didn't make it.

The sad thing here is they DID make it onto the twolane relatively safely.

The problem was, the DC9's wingspan is wider than the right-of-way and a telephone pole + wing spun the plane into a building.

In a similar accident, a 737 in New Orleans had a similar ice-induced double shutdown, and they did a powerless landing on a levee. In that case, however, the plane landed safely and, in fact, was flown off the levee after repairs.

- litz
 
richierich
Posts: 3308
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:45 pm

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 29):
Great books, I wish he'd write some more!

If he is waiting for new material, I hope it is a long time before he is able to write a new book about air crashes!
None shall pass!!!!
 
LPLAspotter
Posts: 671
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:27 am

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:10 am

Quoting MissedApproach (Reply 29):
Great books, I wish he'd write some more!

Best books ever, I agree with you that he should write more.
I remember a quote from the book that there was a Japanese saying that "When the weather is nice, Fuji is angry". There is also a picture of the plane crashing with its wing getting twisted off. Quite a shocker.

LPLAspotter
Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 32):
I believe that was the crash at Greater Southwest (just south of DFW) on a crew training flight? If it was, I believe the cause of that was wake turbulence from an American DC-10 in front of it, and I don't think it was structural failure--"just" an inflight upset that was unrecoverable so close to the ground.

That was actually the crash that made authorities aware of wake vortex issues from large airplanes. The DC-9 encountered the DC-10 vortex and flipped onto the runway. Separation criteria between airplanes was revised after this accident.
 
DL763DFW
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:57 pm

RE: Boac 707-436 Break-up Over Fuji, Japan (1960s)

Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 23):
The '88 DL crash at DFW was pure pilot error. The 727 was on it's way to SLC when it crashed after takeoff because the flaps were in the wrong position. Most people got out alive, about 15 or so died. This was eerily similar to the NW accident at DTW a year later

I rode in F class about a year back on DL from ATL to BOS. I sat next to a retired DL mechanic who was part of the investigation team into that accident.

He said that a lot of times, when mechanics would maintenance-taxi the aircraft from the gates to the hangar, or vice-versa, the takeoff configuration alarm would be sounding because they didn't have the flaps down. It was quite annoying so a lot of times they would pull the fuse for this alarm so that they wouldn't have to hear it.

Unfortunatley, in this aircraft's case, the mechanics didn't put the fuse back in and therefore when the pilots didn't have correct flap configuration for takeoff, there was no alarm or warning.

Indeed it was pilot error for not going through takeoff checklists, but if the fuse had been in place, that added safety measure might have saved a lot of lives.

-DL763DFW

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Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos