ajiggity3
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:08 am

Delta Strike Update

Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:51 pm

The Atlanta Journal today states that the earliest a strike could begin is April 18. This is the first I have heard this so I apologize if it is already posted.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:24 pm

One day before Easter Sunday! Talk about timing.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Jaws707
Posts: 667
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 10:45 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:29 pm

I am scheduled to fly on Delta Connection on the ORD-LGA route shortly after they may go on strike. This route is operated by Shuttle America, so would a strike at DL affect me?
 
ajiggity3
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:08 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:45 pm

Yes, it will affect any Delta Connection carrier operated a Delta scheduled flight. I have a ticket on DL all the way out at the end of Sept . . . I may be having to re-book. Good thing I paid with a CC!
 
ajiggity3
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:08 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 1):
One day before Easter Sunday! Talk about timing.

Wait . . . it took me a couple times to think about it, but that is not right before Easter.
 
sv7887
Posts: 1259
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 7:31 pm

RE: Delta Strike Update

Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:52 pm

Hi All,
I doubt a strike will happen. Both the pilots and management are engaging in a pissing contest. They are all familiar with the story of Eastern Air Lines, and it would be an act of lunacy for either side to force a strike.

The UAW has threatened GM with the same action. The stakes are quite similar there too.

Both sides, I think, agree that keeping Delta in business is the No.1 priority. I'd hate to see 40,000 people lose their jobs over something like this.

Look for a compromise to be reached close to that deadline.

That way the Pilots Union can say they held off Management on the percentage of Cuts, and Management will say, they did extract some concessions.

-Sam
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:03 am

$hit! I'm supposed to be flying DL on April 24th.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 4):
Wait . . . it took me a couple times to think about it, but that is not right before Easter.

By bad 2 days after Easter Sunday.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
georgiaame
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:55 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:04 am

Quoting Sv7887 (Reply 5):
I'd hate to see 40,000 people lose their jobs over something like this.

You might not.

But a union member or "leader" certainly doesn't have a problem with it.

As one of the other bloggers pointed out, Delta still has a couple of billion dollars sloshing around in the coffers, so how they plan on liquidating 24 hours after a strike begins is beyond me. And doesn't the President have the authority to force the strikers back to work for 90 days, if a strike is called? I'd like to hear from one of our legal authorities on that one.

I'm booked into Tokyo in mid-May. Delta goes under, I fly with the (former) competition for a hell of a lot less than I'm paying now...
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
ajiggity3
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:08 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 8):
And doesn't the President have the authority to force the strikers back to work for 90 days, if a strike is called? I'd like to hear from one of our legal authorities on that one.

I'm certainly not a legal authority but I believe President Clinton made the AA pilots go back to work when he was in office. The strike barely lasted a couple hours. Still creates a PIA though.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 9):
I'm certainly not a legal authority but I believe President Clinton made the AA pilots go back to work when he was in office. The strike barely lasted a couple hours. Still creates a PIA though.

That is true, though NW Pilots were allowed to strike as was Comair.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 8):
Delta still has a couple of billion dollars sloshing around in the coffers, so how they plan on liquidating 24 hours after a strike begins is beyond me. And doesn't the President have the authority to force the strikers back to work for 90 days, if a strike is called?

It's not that DL doesn't have the cash; the problem is that a lot of that cash is borrowed from AMEX and GE. And a clause in the loan agreement allows AMEX and GE to call in those loans if a strike were to last more than 48 hours.

And yes, the President can order them back to work if he deems it to be in the national interest...also, DL can try to get a temporary court injunction to order them back to work....
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:40 am

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Thread starter):
The Atlanta Journal today states that the earliest a strike could begin is April 18. This is the first I have heard this so I apologize if it is already posted.

Actually, there were DL pilots picketing outside of the Marine Air Terminal at LGA yesterday and I overheard one say to another that at midnight on the 16th is when they will walk offf the job.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Jaws707 (Reply 2):
I am scheduled to fly on Delta Connection on the ORD-LGA route shortly after they may go on strike. This route is operated by Shuttle America, so would a strike at DL affect me?



Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 3):
Yes, it will affect any Delta Connection carrier operated a Delta scheduled flight.

Incorrect. It is highly likely that Connection carriers would continue operating point-to-point services in the event of a strike...unless and until a shutdown occurred.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 12):
Actually, there were DL pilots picketing outside of the Marine Air Terminal at LGA yesterday and I overheard one say to another that at midnight on the 16th is when they will walk offf the job.

This is exactly how stuff spins out of control....first, the arbitrators have to decide in favor of DL (i.e., it can throw out the contract); second, even if they decide in favor of DL, DL can still choose not to throw out the contract and instead choose to continue negotiations. Remember that the pilots have said they would strike only if DL imposes the new terms without a contract.
 
ajiggity3
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:08 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 14):
This is exactly how stuff spins out of control....first, the arbitrators have to decide in favor of DL (i.e., it can throw out the contract); second, even if they decide in favor of DL, DL can still choose not to throw out the contract and instead choose to continue negotiations. Remember that the pilots have said they would strike only if DL imposes the new terms without a contract.

Of course but I believe this thread has the "IF" clause built in.
 
ajiggity3
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:08 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:42 am

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060407/delta_pilots.html?.v=2

Intersesting article. I would swear this union is ran by a bunch of women . . . drama, drama, drama. "Let's show them, we will clean out our lockers." LAME!

Again this article mentions that they can strike AFTER April 17.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3637
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:24 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 8):
As one of the other bloggers pointed out, Delta still has a couple of billion dollars sloshing around in the coffers, so how they plan on liquidating 24 hours after a strike begins is beyond me. And doesn't the President have the authority to force the strikers back to work for 90 days, if a strike is called? I'd like to hear from one of our legal authorities on that one.

While I could care less about politics, what do you really think Bush would do about the situation? That is almost like asking FEMA to step in and take care of Delta.

Not to make matters worse, but the price of fuel is going through the roofs! I about puked yesterday when I pumped my car full of a whole $20.00, and got about a quarter of a tank of gas! That is enough for 1 and a half round trips to work! Imagine what an airline is facing right now! YIKES!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
AirRyan
Posts: 2398
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:57 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:33 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 11):
And yes, the President can order them back to work if he deems it to be in the national interest...also, DL can try to get a temporary court injunction to order them back to work....

No judge can actually FORCE a person to go to work - this is Ameri-ka and we can all decide when/where/if we're going to go into work. Of course there are legal ramifications of such a decision as well, but I'm just saying.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4694
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:58 am

If the pilots go on strike, DL managment will get before a judge ASAP to get a restraining order to send the pilots back to work.

While a judge can't literally force people to work, he can threaten fines for the union, if he feels that the union doesn't work hard enough to encourage its members to return to work. He can also jail union leaders for contempt of court.

The problem is that the RLA has no provision covering contracts thrown out during bankruptcy proceedings. Obviously, both manangement and union lawyers either are or will be researching to find cases, congressional hearings and debates, and any other sources to show a judge why the RLA does or doesn't apply.

I'm not sure what authority the President has, if any, since hw normally can only send employees back to work, once a strike or lockout starts after the 30-day-cooling-off period. I'm not sure if the White House wants to get involved in a situation that is so legally murky. Besides, the President didn't stop NW or Comair pilots from striking.

The problem is that the strike talk is probably costing DL money in lost reservations. My in-laws live near Atlanta and are exchanging DL miles for Marriott points, and they are planning to fly AA to ORD until the situation is resolved.
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:29 am

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 9):
I'm certainly not a legal authority but I believe President Clinton made the AA pilots go back to work when he was in office. The strike barely lasted a couple hours. Still creates a PIA though.

Don't forget the White House acknowledge there was too much capacity in the market. I would not expect Bush to force them abck to work. Yes, Clinton stepped in on the AA strike, that Clinton.
 
DualQual
Posts: 672
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:10 pm

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:41 am

The threat of a strike is a tool. The pilots are ready and willing to negotiate. It appears management simply wants to exert their collective will on the employee group. Before any of you jump to conclusions take a moment to consider that the pilot group has always been willing to sit at the table and talk. Management has simply had the party line of "this is what we need and we won't budge". The management by intimidation tactics never work (see anything ever done by Frank Lorenzo). Southwest is an excellent example of proper management. It is the most heavily unionized airline, yet relations are generally very good because management there hasn't completely lost touch with the value of the employee. C.E. Woolman (who I am sure is rolling over in his grave) always said that all airlines are the same, it's the employees that make the difference. The current management seems to have lost touch with that. If Delta is willing to sit at the table and bargain the pilots won't walk even if the arbitrators rule that the contract can be tossed. If they rule for management and management decides to force work condtions, then they will. Managment would be wise to sit and negotiate in good faith because from what I gather speaking to a wide range of pilots, they will sit and negotiate in good faith too.

[Edited 2006-04-07 21:43:02]
There's no known cure for stupid
 
Ken777
Posts: 9020
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:21 am

The word at the company where I office is very clear: no one is to book a flight on Delta until the management & unions get their act together and the risk of a strike is totally eliminated. There is very little concern for the pilots (or management), but there is a concern that important trips are not put at risk. Both management and the pilots at some point need to understand that they are seen as unreliable in terms of their future. It may be a pissing contest, but both groups are pissing directly into the wind.
 
skibum9
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 1:13 pm

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting DualQual (Reply 21):
The pilots are ready and willing to negotiate. It appears management simply wants to exert their collective will on the employee group. Before any of you jump to conclusions take a moment to consider that the pilot group has always been willing to sit at the table and talk. Management has simply had the party line of "this is what we need and we won't budge". The management by intimidation tactics never work

DualQual, with all due respect, that is a bunch of bunk.

There is plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the camp. DL management is firm that they need $305 million in savings. That can be through wage, workrule changes, or a combination of both. Yes it is intimidation, but unless any of us have actually seen the financial books and the calculations they used to figure that amount, we have no right to second guess it. It is not like they are a solvent company at this point, so I doubt there truely is much flexibility. For all we know it could be true.

On the flip side, the pilots are saying that they are only going to give back something like $150M. Again, none of us have actually seen their financial estimates or calculations, so we don't know if that is true. However, it is intimidation on their part to say they will strike. It is not squarely on management's shoulders to negotiate as it will take both parties to negotiate. Like you said, management won't budge. Well either will the pilots. Sure the pilots say they are willing to negotiate, but it is not negotiating if they say they won't go below their current offer. The fact is the pilots have nothing to leverage, but a strike at this point.
Tailwinds!!!
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4465
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 16):
I would swear this union is ran by a bunch of women

LOL< but at least women aren't as hairy (well in most cases anyways...)

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
Of course there are legal ramifications of such a decision as well, but I'm just saying.

Not to mention financial!

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 20):
Yes, Clinton stepped in on the AA strike, that Clinton.

But AA is also the biggest airline in the world, DL would not have as much of an economic impact as an AA shutdown would.

Quoting DualQual (Reply 21):
C.E. Woolman (who I am sure is rolling over in his grave) always said that all airlines are the same, it's the employees that make the difference.

Pounding on the lid of his coffin scremain' his head off, wanting to rip Leo Mullin's head off.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
The word at the company where I office is very clear: no one is to book a flight on Delta until the management & unions get their act together and the risk of a strike is totally eliminated.

At my old company last year, we had a contract with DL for 12 Business class seats A DAY to ATH. Since December from what I've heard, its CO to FCO/DUS, then Aegean to ATH.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:53 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
No judge can actually FORCE a person to go to work

Neither can the President. What happens if they refuse, are they all put under arrest? I think not. DL would be in a lose/lose situation with no leverage whatsoever if the pilots strike. They can't just fire the pilots and pick up new ones to fly the planes on 48 hours' notice. That might work with rampers (albeit badly) but not with pilots.
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:02 am

Phew, good thing I changed my DL ticket to SAN to AA. My outbound flight wouldn't have been affected, but my return would have affected.
 
jumbojet
Posts: 988
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:01 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:17 am

Have the two sides even had a single negotiation session since the arbitators finiishing hearing arguments from both sides and told them to get a deal done?
 
ajiggity3
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:08 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:56 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 27):
Have the two sides even had a single negotiation session since the arbitators finiishing hearing arguments from both sides and told them to get a deal done?

We don't really know because the arbitration panel told both sides negotiations were not to be discussed with media and public, even up to the point of if they even had negotiations. Seems a little extreme but I guess this whole situation is.
 
DL787932ER
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:27 pm

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:07 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 27):
Have the two sides even had a single negotiation session since the arbitators finiishing hearing arguments from both sides and told them to get a deal done?

The AJC article from today about the pilots being asked (by the union) to clean out their lockers says that one of the arbitrators has been mediating negotiations this week.

Quote:
ALPA's move came as Robert Harris, one of three arbitrators weighing whether to reject the pilots contract and allow Delta to impose new pay cuts, has been mediating negotiations this week.

What would be nice is if he could put the negotiators on each side in a hotel suite with food and water and lock the door from the outside, and not let them out until they had a new contract signed that's acceptable to both sides. It'd also be nice if Lee Moak and the union's "PR" people could put a sock in it until a contract is signed, but I think the arbitrators already asked for that and apparently were ignored.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2852
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:11 am

I'm flying DL to PVR on April 14th and coming back the 20th. Am I going to be stuck in Mexico?

I wouldn't mind being stuck in Mexico. Nevertheless, I really hope this doesn't happen.

JetBluefan1
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
Posts: 11734
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 8):
As one of the other bloggers pointed out, Delta still has a couple of billion dollars sloshing around in the coffers, so how they plan on liquidating 24 hours after a strike begins is beyond me.

If Delta ceases operation for > 24 hours, some of the DIP financing comes due. While this on its own isn't much of an issue, there is the problem that other financial covenants are then broken and there is the danger of a domino of loans coming do. Delta has ~$2 billion cash of which slightly over $1.2 Billion is free cash and ~ $12 billion in debt.

If only 10% of the debt comes due... the free cash is gone.

However, as I noted before, Delta will survive 24 hours of a strike. But how long?  scratchchin  I really don't want my theory proven by the way.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
The word at the company where I office is very clear: no one is to book a flight on Delta until the management & unions get their act together and the risk of a strike is totally eliminated. There is very little concern for the pilots (or management), but there is a concern that important trips are not put at risk. Both management and the pilots at some point need to understand that they are seen as unreliable in terms of their future. It may be a pissing contest, but both groups are pissing directly into the wind.

 checkmark  people are getting a bit jumpy. Does anyone have statistics on DL "book away?" Since DL doesn't post number until long after their competitors, it makes it difficult to gauge how the strike threat is impacting them.

The biggest problem with a strike is basic marketing: its expensive to get people to try a new product (e.g., Airtran, Jetblue, CO, NW, AA) But once they try it, they are far more likely to change brands. A strike *forces* people to try the compitition. Oh... Great recovery plan.  banghead 

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:19 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
It may be a pissing contest, but both groups are pissing directly into the wind.

Agree with you, why?

Ok I am reading all the replys and some of you are in a panic like there is no
day after tomorrow............  wink  so what do you think what the average
DL traveler thinks or feels about the Pilots & Management pissing in to the
wind.... should I book it with DL or not.....
Yes they have some cash available from Amex and GE but let me tell you if
people quit booking seats on DL because these to sides are busy pissing in to the wind, what do you think how long 2 billions will last.............. or Amex and
GE will call the loans back?????

DL's losses are a fact not fiction no "buts and ifs"

Cheers,
 
ajiggity3
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 2:08 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 8:55 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 32):
Yes they have some cash available from Amex and GE but let me tell you if
people quit booking seats on DL because these to sides are busy pissing in to the wind, what do you think how long 2 billions will last.............. or Amex and
GE will call the loans back?????

You are exactly right because even though the airline is not yet on strike, people and business around the country are not booking on them simply because of the "if" factor. I live in Altanta and know many many companies including my own have told all their employees they cannot book on Delta until this is settled. I would love to know their load factor for May if they don't go on strike, it has got to be LOW.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:05 am

Since the arbitrators specifically told both sides in their last day of the hearing which was open to the public to shut the public rhetoric up and go in and negotiate, you haven't heard a word from DL since but the pilots have kept up the rhetoric and only turned it up another notch or two. Not real smart when your future is being decided by a panel of 3 people who are not real keen about being mocked.

Lee Moak and DALPA's negotiating committee has been told by national ALPA to get a deal done - or don't look to national ALPA for any help. ALPA is not interested in being blamed for shutting down the 3rd largest airline nor are they willing to be made out to be fools.

The reality is that DL could impose a contract on the pilots and many of the pilots will be willing to fly under it. DL is primarily asking for workrule and pension changes, not what someone walks off the job for. And while DL would have to shut down long enough to figure who wants to show up for work, there is a very good likelihood that DL would have the vast majority of the pilots back in the cockpit within days and the union out of the door. It would be a beautiful sight and alot of DL pilots would be glad to put a month's worth of salary back in their pockets instead of wasting it on union leadership.

But.... DL will exhaust every legal means to keep the pilots from striking. Remember that Western's unions tried to stop the DL/WA merger at the last minute and Sandra Day O'Connor set aside the lawsuits just minutes before the merger was to be consummated. The legal system in the US does not go to bed at dark and neither does the executive branch. Given that flights throughout the US are packed for the next two weeks, there is little chance that either branch will let ALPA run amock.... and flights are packed for the next 5 months.... remember the NYC subway strike... their union faces assive fines because they disobeyed back to work orders.... same thing happened to AA APA... which is undoubtedly why national ALPA doesn't want to be faced with the liability.

[Edited 2006-04-08 02:08:57]
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:22 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 34):
Lee Moak and DALPA's negotiating committee has been told by national ALPA to get a deal done - or don't look to national ALPA for any help. ALPA is not interested in being blamed for shutting down the 3rd largest airline nor are they willing to be made out to be fools.

Can you provide a link where ALPA said this? Or are you just making this up?
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:23 am

In recent standoffs in which US Airways, United and Northwest airlines moved to void labor contracts while restructuring in Chapter 11, they reached last-minute settlements with the unions.

Both Delta and ALPA say they want to reach a negotiated settlement, but the union contends there has been little progress because Delta management has taken a hard line.

Hicks declined to talk about the status of talks, but added, "I think there's plenty of history that says an agreement will be reached.

"The stakes are high and everyone involved knows that."


This essentially says a deal will be struck, however, they do not mention the likes of Eastern, TWA (kind of), Braniff or PanAm.

There would be some blips, major blips, but nothing so awful if DL did shut down that it couldn't be handled. B6 would have a place to put all those planes they have on order.

I doubt President Bush will step in. It's business. Some survive, some fail.

I hope the best for DL employees and feel relatively certain they will work something out.

M
 
surfdog75
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 34):
Since the arbitrators specifically told both sides in their last day of the hearing which was open to the public to shut the public rhetoric up and go in and negotiate, you haven't heard a word from DL since but the pilots have kept up the rhetoric and only turned it up another notch or two. Not real smart when your future is being decided by a panel of 3 people who are not real keen about being mocked.

The reason the rhetoric is being turned up is because management refuses to negotiate. Also not smart when the board told you to go get a deal done.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 34):
The reality is that DL could impose a contract on the pilots and many of the pilots will be willing to fly under it. DL is primarily asking for work rule and pension changes, not what someone walks off the job for. And while DL would have to shut down long enough to figure who wants to show up for work, there is a very good likelihood that DL would have the vast majority of the pilots back in the cockpit within days and the union out of the door. It would be a beautiful sight and alot of DL pilots would be glad to put a month's worth of salary back in their pockets instead of wasting it on union leadership.

Sorry. There is nothing worse in this industry than a scab. That is the universal feeling in the cockpit, believe me. I would be working at Starbucks before I ever crossed a picket line. Please don't misjudge this group. They are unified like no other. Management has over-reached big time. 50 percent plus pay cut, the only work group to lose their retirement, and they want to farm many more main line flying jobs off to the lowest bidder. That's just the beginning and it's a non starter. Most people won't even vote yes on the current table position. You can only push people so far.
 
UNDAEROSPACE
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 1:35 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:44 am

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail in this dispute.I'm flying JFK-MCO-NAS on the 14th of April the day before the verdict comes in on the contract and im flying back the 21st of April NAS-MCO-ATL-JFK. Talk about perfect timing.
 
skibum9
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 1:13 pm

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 37):
Sorry. There is nothing worse in this industry than a scab. That is the universal feeling in the cockpit, believe me. I would be working at Starbucks before I ever crossed a picket line. Please don't misjudge this group. They are unified like no other. Management has over-reached big time. 50 percent plus pay cut, the only work group to lose their retirement, and they want to farm many more main line flying jobs off to the lowest bidder. That's just the beginning and it's a non starter. Most people won't even vote yes on the current table position. You can only push people so far.

And so it finally starts in this thread. Sorry Surfdog, no disrespect, but you've just opened up a can of worms that has been argued in many other threads on this topic. Now we will see a ton of posts from people that do not have sympathy on your position and a ton of people that do, of which there will be no consensus.
Tailwinds!!!
 
surfdog75
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 39):
And so it finally starts in this thread. Sorry Surfdog, no disrespect, but you've just opened up a can of worms that has been argued in many other threads on this topic. Now we will see a ton of posts from people that do not have sympathy on your position and a ton of people that do, of which there will be no consensus.

Yeah, I know. What was I thinking. Anyway, a negotiated settlement is a must here and I think it will happen. The pilot contract has been in effect for 62 years and they have always worked things out up until now. It does take two sides to negotiate though.

[Edited 2006-04-08 02:59:46]
 
incitatus
Posts: 2691
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:12 am

Quoting DualQual (Reply 21):
It appears management simply wants to exert their collective will on the employee group.

Isn't it this way for every employee out there who does not belong to a union? Part of the role of the management of a company is to decide how many employees it should have and how much it should pay them - based on how much the company can afford to pay and what competitors pay. Why is this so hard to grasp?

The pilots are free to quit their jobs if they don't like it. Why instead strike and take down the company and bring hardship to every single employee of Delta? The Delta pilot's union has no regard for the other employees of the company.

Quoting DualQual (Reply 21):
Southwest is an excellent example of proper management.

Of course every pilot out there thinks Southwest is the example to follow. Look at the pay rates! Southwest has a salary problem for many work groups. It doesn't show yet, but problems in airlines show up like cancer: Slowly with the first symptom being very high pay rates.
Stop pop up ads
 
skibum9
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 1:13 pm

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 41):
Southwest has a salary problem for many work groups. It doesn't show yet, but problems in airlines show up like cancer: Slowly with the first symptom being very high pay rates.

Some are predicting that WN will have to start to seek consessions next year as its fuel hedges slowly start to go away and as costs at the legacies continue to come down. Also, the new CFO at AA announced this week that they are going to have to go back to the pilot group for additional consessions. So using your analogy, I would say it is more like the pimples on some of the faces on the teenaged a.netters that have been posting. One day all is clean, then it starts to come to the surface, then it pops, clears up and starts all over again.
Tailwinds!!!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:30 am

Quoting Surfdog75 (Reply 40):
Isn't it this way for every employee out there who does not belong to a union?

actually employers impose their will on all of their employees. Unions like to think that they keep that from happening but it's pretty much accepted in these business friendly United States that management controls the resources of production and the flow of assets, including paychecks. Anyone that thinks they can prevent management from exercising its will is a fool - an employed one to boot.
 
deltaguy767
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:32 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:10 am

I sincerely do hope that the pilots or management do come to an agreement before a strike (even an attempted one), for the sake of the 40,000 other employees, who are being paid much less than the pilots, and most have either suffered some cuts in their departments people or salaries. Although I am slightly angered that the highest paid pilots in the industry are arguing that they won't let management take any more of their pay, I am also angry at Leo Mullin and the other geniuses who put DL in this position. As someone said in another thread, good people in DL's management like Cortlyou,Giernstein,and Bastian who are doing a good job with the cards they've been dealt, are being blamed for the dreadful Lorenzo-like blunders of the Mullin administration. Sad I pray that DL will be alive next month and for a long time to come.

From BDL and BAF,  wave 
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
CWAFlyer
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2005 3:33 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting Ajiggity3 (Reply 9):
The strike barely lasted a couple hours. Still creates a PIA though.

It was more like minutes.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 25):
Neither can the President

Yes he can. That is why many union proponants want the Railway
Labor Act abolished.

Quoting DualQual (Reply 21):
Southwest is an excellent example of proper management

Don't say that too loud around a group of Southwest flight attendants.
 
JetBlueAUS
Posts: 852
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:15 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:27 am

Even though I consider myself a 'JetBlue loyalist', I do not feel subject to become heartless towards DL. I do not want DL to lose its business because of the pilots efforts to destroy the company, just so B6 can be relieved from DL at JFK and other areas. I want DL to succeed because I do not want 40,000 people to become unemployeed. If I was a hiring airline, and DL folded because of its pilots I would not hire a DL pilot.

I think that the Pilots Union does not take the consideration of the other DL workers. (F/A's, Ground Ops, etc) The way they are handling this situation is extremely selfish. On the other hand, I think ALPA is being extremely smart by telling DALPA to settle this with the DL management, and doesn't want to be responsible with DL's demise.

However, if DL's Pilots say they might strike by April 18th I would get ready to embrace the worst. Personally, I think that DALPA definately has the potential to strike but then again, you never know, they could reach an agreement by then. (Which is doubtful.)
Not all of us can be heroes, some of us can only stand on the sidewalk and clap as they go by.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:04 pm

and if you think the pilots are being selfish, just think what the millions of passengers that could be stranded away from home around the world by DL pilots would think.... and they would quickly demand Washington gut airline unions.

It is precisely because of the magnitude of this scenario that it will never happen. We live in a rational country and there are laws to prevent a few from inflicting damage on the many, including the creditors whose interest is the primary concern of DL's bankruptcy.

DALPA can walk away now and claim that they have come away w/ a deal which is good for all or they can be reduced to the biggest losers in the history of aviation. No one really knew what would happen to Eastern. We all know what will happen to DL if the pilots strike. Anyone that dares to venture into that world will pay a horrible price for it and national ALPA wants nothing to do with it.
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4465
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:04 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy767 (Reply 44):
As someone said in another thread, good people in DL's management like Cortlyou,Giernstein,and Bastian who are doing a good job with the cards they've been dealt, are being blamed for the dreadful Lorenzo-like blunders of the Mullin administration.

Absolutely correct DeltaGuy. I hoep this management team can pull DL out of the Mullin-watered mire.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
letsgetwet
Posts: 490
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:08 pm

RE: Delta Strike Update

Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:07 pm

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
No judge can actually FORCE a person to go to work

There are not too many things any judge can force you to do, merely for not going to work. On the other hand, it's hard to force someone to give you a job.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 3AWM, 817Dreamliiner, Aesma, Alexa [Bot], atypical, Bing [Bot], cabochris, Cipango, Google [Bot], Humberside, hummingbird, Hypoxik, JannEejit, jbs2886, klkla, LA704, legacyins, Miami, Miguel1982, msycajun, Polot, reality, SyeaphanR, UAEflyer and 307 guests