adriaticus
Posts: 989
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When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:49 am

I'm copy-pasting some questions/comments that went unanswered in the DL Strike Update thread currently going on. The fellow a.net bloggers there are more interested in determining who's right, the pilots or the company, so these questions about tickets did not create much interest:

Quoting Nycfly75 (Reply 59):
For example, someone bought a ticket through DL for JFK-CDG but is actually flying on an Air France flight, will the Skyteam members still honor those tickets if there is a strike or worse?


I have the same doubt, most specially regarding three tickets I've purchased with SkyMiles for flights to BOG (on AV metal) and EDI (on CO metal) later in the year. I mean, IF and AFTER DL dissapears, would the ticket be honored?

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 60):
I would think it wouldnt make too much of a difference becasue the pax is going on AF's metal, not DL's


Western318 meant well, and I can understand his response if DL is still on strike, but would it be the same if it has already gone belly-up?

On a similar example, a small Mexican carrier (JR) named Aerocalifornia has been recently grounded by the civil aviation authority and given a 90-day period to come to terms with applicable regulations. All other Mexican carriers are currently horouring JR's tickets with a payment of some US$50 in average (let's rememeber JR is still technically alive). The question is, what would happen after (and IF, of course) JR or DL are goners? What's the industry standard practice in this case? What happened with ticketholders when EA went belly-up?

Your insights will be greatly appreciated...

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WDBRR
Posts: 599
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:13 am

I think other airlines (mostly Delta) honored Eastern's tickets
for a period of time. American did NOT honor Braniff's tickets
either because they were not worth anything or wanted to
make things more difficult. I always wondered what happens
to the records they have.....personnel records, flight records,
reservation archives, etc. do they send it to a 3rd party
records storage facility? does it all get destroyed?
 
ANother
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:30 pm

Quoting Adriaticus (Thread starter):
Your insights will be greatly appreciated...

It depends on who has got the money! If DL issued the ticket I would doubt that any other airline would honour it (except domestically where US airlines are required to for a 'reasonable' fee $100, I think). The chances of an other airline getting anything are remote as they are way down the list of creditors.

If, in your example, it was an AF issued ticket - no problem! AF has got the money, they would gladly carry the passenger who had been ticketed DL on an AF operated flight.

This can be a double-edged sword as, in the case of EA, agents started 'ticketing away' issuing EA travel on oal tickets which destroyed EA's cash flow. When an EA ticket is bought EA got the money almost immediatly while where an oal ticket was issued EA wouldn't get the money until some months after travel dates.

We have often seen airlines offered special fares for passengers in such situations. i.e. short term offer of usually quite good prices for stranded passengers. It depends how hungry the other airlines are.
 
DALelite
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:56 pm

well and this is my case. I have purchased a ticket on DL from BSL-CDG-PHL
TPA-LGA-JFK-CDG-BSL. Leaving BSL on May 26th. Returning from JFK on
June 10th. The transatlantic leg is on AFmetal. I am quite sure that if DL would
shut doors I would loose my money. Why would AF carry me, since my ticket
was issued by DL?

DALelite
They loved to fly and it showed..
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:39 pm

One of the provisions of legislation enacted following 9/11 (which expired after a "sunset clause" elapsed, but was then revived permanently) provides some protection for passengers of a U.S. based carrier that goes under.

In the event DL shuts down, competitors will be required to allow stranded customers to fly on them - on a space-available (standby) basis only - for a fee of no more than $50.00USD each way, provided that it's the same route. I believe this applies to U.S. carriers only though - IIRC, an international flag carrier wouldn't be obligated to accept customers of a failed U.S. carrier.

Also, this only works within a certain time period - it's within either 60 or 90 days of a shutdown only, I can't remember which; it's way past bedtime and I'm feeling too lazy to look it up right now.  Wink
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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ANother
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:41 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 4):
One of the provisions of legislation

I believe these rules apply only to domestic tickets, and the reasonable amount has gone up to $100. But if an international carrier has a seat at departure, and a poor ex-DL passenger standing there with a $100 bill ...
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:20 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 5):
the reasonable amount has gone up to $100.

Right - as I mentioned above, it's $50.00 each way. Under the previous legislation it was capped at $25.00 each way, or $50.00 roundtrip.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ANother
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 6):
it's $50.00 each way.

No, I don't think so. The rule only applies to stranded passengers - those that had already begun their journey. DOT who 'interpreted' what Congress had ruled started out at $50 to get the passenger home, but increased it fairly recently to $100 as the $50 wasn't meeting the incremental charges (PFCs, fuel, baggage handling, etc).

I'll check tomorrow when I get to the office to see if I can find a link ...
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:48 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 7):
No, I don't think so. The rule only applies to stranded passengers - those that had already begun their journey.

Incorrect, from what I recall. It doesn't only apply to stranded customers. It covers anyone ticketed to travel domestically on the now-defunct carrier, provided their ticket is for the same competing route and travel was scheduled within either 60 or 90 days (I forget which - I'm writing from home, not my office) of the now-defunct carrier's shutdown date.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
dan2002
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:02 am

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 1):
I always wondered what happens
to the records they have.....personnel records, flight records,
reservation archives, etc. do they send it to a 3rd party
records storage facility? does it all get destroyed?

I know when my dads company went belly up, all of the records stayed in the office. Anything that didnt sell at auction just sits around gathering dust unless someone purchases the property. It may be different with an airline, but maybe its not.


Dan
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
ANother
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:00 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 8):
from what I recall. It doesn't only apply to stranded customers. It covers anyone ticketed to travel domestically on the now-defunct carrier, provided their ticket is for the same competing route and travel was scheduled within either 60 or 90 days (I forget which - I'm writing from home, not my office) of the now-defunct carrier's shutdown date.

You can find DOT's clarification here: http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/Section%20145Guidance2005June.pdf

You are correct it does cover all ticketed passengers, although for the life of me I can't understand why! Stranded passengers, fine -we've got to get them home without too much grief but ...
 
adriaticus
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Thanks to everyone for you insights. Hopefuly, DL is about to make a deal with the pilots, and the risk of strike is being averted - for now.

Let's hope for the best.

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DesertAir
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RE: When An Airline Goes Belly Up...

Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:00 am

I suspect airlines honor the tickets of other airlines if they think they will pick up passengers. For example, I had tickets on NW when their pilots were on strike. AA honored their tickets and upgraded me to business on one leg of the flight.

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