YULspotter
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Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:54 pm

Hello.

With Air Canada's aging fleet of A319's and A320's as well as their apparent move back to Boeing aircraft with their recent 777 and 787 order, I was wondering about the chance of Air Canada ordering 737's to replace their A319's and A320's.

They're currently one of the few North American carriers that don't have any 737s in their fleet. I find this fact to be quite interesting when it is estimated that a 737 takes off somewhere in the world every 5 seconds.

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts/ideas on this.

Personally, I would love to see a 737-700, 800 or 900 with winglets in AC's colors.

According to Air Canada's website, there current fleet of A319's & A320's consist of the following:
51 Airbus A320
48 Airbus A319

YULspotter.
 
mikephotos
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:05 pm

I sure do miss these little guys, didn't get to shoot many of them...


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Keith Bradley



Mike
 
9252fly
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:07 pm

The A319 and A320 fleet will start dropping like flies. There will be no B737 added to the fleet anytime soon. As the E190 arrive,expect to see the Buses leave almost 1 for 1. Rumour has it AC bought it's E190 at half the cost of a new A320...you do the math.
 
SNATH
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting YULspotter (Thread starter):
According to Air Canada's website, there current fleet of A319's & A320's consist of the following:
51 Airbus A320
48 Airbus A319

airfleets.net shows 47 active A319s, 47 active A320s, and 10 active A321s:

http://www.airfleets.net/flottecie/Air%20Canada.htm

As for AC getting B737NGs, I personally highly doubt it. One of the reasons that they are replacing their long-haul fleet with B787s/B777s is to simplify it. I don't think they would want to add another type to their short-haul fleet; it will contradict their strategy. The small 'buses do a good job for AC. I think AC will stick with them until Airbus and Boeing have their A320/B737 replacements ready... then it will get interesting.  Wink

My  twocents 

Safe flying!

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting YULspotter (Thread starter):
I was wondering about the chance of Air Canada ordering 737's to replace their A319's and A320's.

No chance! Big grin
As stated the 319s, 320s, and 321s do an excellent job for AC and any new aquisitions are going the way of ERJ175 & ERJ190s.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
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yyz717
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:30 pm

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 4):
As stated the 319s, 320s, and 321s do an excellent job for AC

More the case that the 32x series does a similar job that the NG could do, rather than an excellent job.

Until Boeing (or Airbus) can offer a markedly better product, AC has no reason to replace the 32x series.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ac7e7
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:41 pm

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 2):
As the E190 arrive,expect to see the Buses leave almost 1 for 1

I don't think so. There will be 10 A320s or so and three A319s leaving the fleet in the short-medium term (according to the ACE Aviation 2005 annual report) , however that is all. They will not be leaving on a 1:1 basis.


Air Canada's A320 fleet may be aging, however they are still very efficient aircraft. The A319s are only ten years old and less, and the A321 even younger. Air Canada will not replace their narrowbody fleet until Boeing and Airbus have at least announced their new 737/A32X replacements. This will only happen after the 787s have started entering the fleet.
 
aircanada014
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:15 pm

Its very interesting how AC having mixed a/c in the fleet. Soon to be all widebodied boeing jets, narrowbodied airbuses and regional jets embraer and as for AC Jazz all bombardier.
 
Slarty
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:33 pm

Quoting Mikephotos (Reply 1):
I sure do miss these little guys, didn't get to shoot many of them...

I assume that the photo of the 737 in AC colours would have been an ex-CP plane? Would that be correct?

I still fondly remember the era of AC's single-aisle workhorse fleet of DC-9s  Smile prior to the A32X replacement fleet. Or has my memory failed me? lol
 
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Stitch
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:33 pm

I also cannot see AC adding 737NGs. They will wait until the 737RS/A320RS enters service and then order.
 
SNATH
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:51 pm

Quoting Slarty (Reply 8):
I assume that the photo of the 737 in AC colours would have been an ex-CP plane? Would that be correct?

Correct. Click on the registration and the photos will give you a good idea of the history of the plane...

Tony
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
 
Cruiser
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:23 am

It is important to note that the A320's are getting old, however, the A319's and A321's are still relatively new. It would not make sense for them to move to the Boeing's at this point in time.

We will probably see them order some of the A320 replacements, unless one absolutely outperforms the other (such as the 777 vs. A340). It just wouldn't make financial sense, plus, AC is still a major Airbus operator, and will continue to have a good relationship with Airbus.

James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
heathrow
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:35 am

I personally don't think they'll be getting and 737's any time soon. Untill then, stick to the plan of taking all the paint of the planes to save money  Yeah sure
 
dutchjet
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:55 am

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 4):

No chance!
As stated the 319s, 320s, and 321s do an excellent job for AC and any new aquisitions are going the way of ERJ175 & ERJ190s.

Kaz

Oh, never say never in the airline world - who would have thought that AC would dump their rather new A330/340 fleet in favor of the 777 family? And, everyone thought that AC buying the A350 to replace their large 767 fleet was a given - and, surprise, AC placed a large order for the 787. You never really know what will happen - airlines evolve, mangement changes, the manufacturers offer new products and either Airbus or Boeing offers an airline a very good deal and then the "impossible" suddenly happens.

To be honest, I also dont think that AC will be placing an order for the 737NG any time soon - their A32X fleet is still rather young and not in need of replacement - and, as pointed out, AC (like many other airlines) are now very interested in the E-jet family so its likely that any A32Xs retired by AC will be replaced by the newer, smaller and cheaper E-jet family.

In a few years time, AC will look for something new in the 125-200 seat category.....by then, I expect that Boeing and Airbus will have a clear plan for what will be on offer in that category, either newly designed aircrafts or further updates of the 737NG and A32X. At that point in time, will AC replace the A32X with a Boeing or Airbus product? Who knows?
 
YULspotter
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:57 am

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

Guess I won't hold my breath waiting to see 737's in AC's fleet.
Well at least there's plenty of Westjet 737's to admire.

YULspotter
 
heathrow
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting YULspotter (Reply 14):
Well at least there's plenty of Westjet 737's to admire

I have a feeling that some time in the future, Westjet may become the new equivilant of Air Canada but better. We can only hope. I miss Canadian  Sad
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:38 am

Quoting Heathrow (Reply 15):
I have a feeling that some time in the future, Westjet may become the new equivilant of Air Canada but better.

With the new cabin upgrades and continually improving customer service at AC, and of course the frequent flyer program, Business class lounges, priority seating/baggage handling for biz pax, vast network/ frequencies and interline agreements to get you anywhere in the world, all of which already exist... I wouldn't hold your breath.

Kris
YYC
 
9252fly
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 6):
I don't think so. There will be 10 A320s or so and three A319s leaving the fleet in the short-medium term (according to the ACE Aviation 2005 annual report) , however that is all. They will not be leaving on a 1:1 basis.

Okay,so it not 1 for 1,I think I said "almost". I recall reading the reduction of A320 family was to be 30. So if you look at the firm order for the E190(45),then it's more like 1.5 for 1.
 
N1120A
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 2):
Rumour has it AC bought it's E190 at half the cost of a new A320...you do the math.

They are also half the size and have less range.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
9252fly
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:02 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
They are also half the size and have less range.

Not quite half the size. Using AC standard 32" pitch,I suspect the difference is closer to 1/3 less in size. Granted the range is less,yet it will do trans-con domestic flights out of the YYZ hub. AC is not so much focused on having the most lift on major city pairs,rather,they are going after more point to point and frequency which ultimately drives the yield. It sort of follows the 787 point to point argument that comes up on this forum.
 
ac7e7
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:09 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 13):
And, everyone thought that AC buying the A350 to replace their large 767 fleet was a given

No, I think only you thought AC would purchase the A350  Wink

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 17):
I recall reading the reduction of A320 family was to be 30

I doubt it would be that much. According to the ACE Aviation 2006 Annual Report, about 16 A32X jets will be leaving the fleet, presumably in the short to medium term. An A319 has already been returned to the leasing company with two more about to go as well.
 
UK_Dispatcher
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:49 pm

Quoting YULspotter (Thread starter):
With Air Canada's aging fleet of A319's and A320's

I would hardly describe the A319s as ageing!

I had the pleasure of flying on an ex-CP/AC B737-200 recently, which is now operated by Phoenix Aviation for Aero Asia, of Pakistan. You could still see where the 'Can>dian Business Class' wording had previously existed on the bulkhead.

I think the B732s looked great in the Air Canada scheme - I'm pretty sure the only time I ever saw one was at LAX, around 2001.
 
bmacleod
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 2):
The A319 and A320 fleet will start dropping like flies. As the E190 arrive,expect to see the Buses leave almost 1 for 1.

The E190s are in a different category than the A320 family. While the range may be similar, the capacity is quite smaller; especially the A321.

The E-Jets were brought in for US routes like YYZ-ATL and YYC-IAH where even filling up a A319 can be tough. The 319/320/321s will still be the backbone for most domestic routes....

Can't wait to see E175s flying YYZ-MSY hopefully soon....

[Edited 2006-04-10 15:52:55]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
boac707
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:22 am

Perhaps when AC buys out WestJet they will keep the 737's....


OK I'm joking...

737's have not ever been an AC favourite...they have had DC-9 and the 727's and now the Airbus fleet but never (until the take over)....the 737.
smokey classics to the end of time
 
accargo
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:32 am

Quoting Heathrow (Reply 15):

I have a feeling that some time in the future, Westjet may become the new equivilant of Air Canada but better. We can only hope. I miss Canadian

How many times have you flown AC, WS or even CP for that matter? Your profile says your 13-15, so that would make you at most 9 when CP ceased to be. What are you basing your comments on?
 
aircanada014
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:05 am

Did you know before AC bought A320s they were looking to buy B737-500s. They had to decide the Airbus or the Boeings.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 25):
Did you know before AC bought A320s they were looking to buy B737-500s. They had to decide the Airbus or the Boeings.

A deal was actually inked with 35 B737-300s and 35 B737-400s, with Boeing taking on the sale of the DC-9s and the B727-200s. It was a shock to ALL when the Airbus order was announced!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
ba747yyz
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:41 am

I don't see them ordering new 737's or A320 family in the near future, they are not that old, and has been said they are getting new Embrarer's but those are slightly smaller than either.
 
yul332LX
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:14 am

Quoting Heathrow (Reply 15):
I have a feeling that some time in the future, Westjet may become the new equivilant of Air Canada but better. We can only hope. I miss Canadian

Same here.

 Sad
E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
 
YULspotter
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:48 am

I should probably clarify that when I said that AC's fleet of A319s & A320s was ageing, I didn't mean that they were getting old - just getting to an age where they may no longer be as economical to operate as some of the newer 737 models.

To continue to compete with one another, AC and Westjet would make sure aircraft in their fleet have similar CASM.

It would be interesting to know the economics of an AC A320 in the standard two class configuration (140 seats - 20 First Class & 120 in Economy) vs Westjet's single class 737-700 (136 seats).

YULspotter
 
9252fly
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 20):
I doubt it would be that much. According to the ACE Aviation 2006 Annual Report, about 16 A32X jets will be leaving the fleet, presumably in the short to medium term. An A319 has already been returned to the leasing company with two more about to go as well.

I keep seeing references to the previous annual reports and as much as I accept that,my figures come from a little known release from 2004 that clearly shows the fleet composition plan for AC and Jazz,which so far seems to to unfolding as indicated.
 
ac7e7
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:09 pm

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 20):
According to the ACE Aviation 2006 Annual Report, about 16 A32X jets will be leaving the fleet, presumably in the short to medium term. An A319 has already been returned to the leasing company with two more about to go as well.

Sorry, I meant 2005 annual report, not the 2006 report, which is not due out for another year  Wink

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 30):
I keep seeing references to the previous annual reports and as much as I accept that,my figures come from a little known release from 2004 that clearly shows the fleet composition plan for AC and Jazz,which so far seems to to unfolding as indicated.

I do not doubt you. Could you provide a link? I'd love to read it!
 
9252fly
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:23 pm

Quoting AC7E7 (Reply 31):
I do not doubt you. Could you provide a link? I'd love to read it!

Sorry no link available. What I can tell you,is that it originated from a Globe and Mail article. It was a chart with a year to year fleet breakdown to 2009. It was very specific and odd that a newspaper had such specific figures. I suspect that it came from internal source at AC. The chart made no reference to the B777 or B787. Again,what was most striking,was the reduction in A320 line.
 
N1120A
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:31 pm

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 19):
Not quite half the size. Using AC standard 32" pitch,I suspect the difference is closer to 1/3 less in size. Granted the range is less,yet it will do trans-con domestic flights out of the YYZ hub.

In a 2 class configuration, the E190 is supposed to hold 90 seats. That is slightly more than half the size of a typical A320. In AC's configuration, yes, they are about 1/3rd the size, but the AC A320s have an atypically large forward cabin, with 20 seats.

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 26):
Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 25):
Did you know before AC bought A320s they were looking to buy B737-500s. They had to decide the Airbus or the Boeings.

A deal was actually inked with 35 B737-300s and 35 B737-400s, with Boeing taking on the sale of the DC-9s and the B727-200s. It was a shock to ALL when the Airbus order was announced!

The whole Airbus deal was a mess of political corruption in the Mulrooney government, going right up to the former PM himself.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
9252fly
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
In a 2 class configuration, the E190 is supposed to hold 90 seats.

Close enough! The configurations for the E190 are,9-J / 84-Y. The A320 is 20-J / 120-Y.
 
ac7e7
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RE: Air Canada & The 737

Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:53 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 33):
The whole Airbus deal was a mess of political corruption in the Mulrooney government, going right up to the former PM himself.

Who was acquitted I may add. The Liberals were accused of a smear campaign against the former PM. Mulroney ended up making millions after filing a lawsuit against the government.

The Airbus A320 was a far superior airplane to Boeing's 737-300/400. It was a good decision.

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