CP744
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Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:33 am

Hi all..... I believe Canadian North is taking dellivery of their new F-100 this week. It is an ex-KLM CityHopper,PH-LMV, MSN 11301. I've also heard a "rumour" that it may be already painted in the newer Canadian North livery.

I was wondering if anyone in the AMS area has noticed #11301 around lately? Or if it did indeed disappeared for painting. May be the only time to get a picture of this aircraft in AMS in it's livery, if it did get painted.

I believe it will be leaving AMS for YYC later this week, the pilots bring it back to YYC are sked to fly to AMS on Wednesday.

Cheers
 
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airbuseric
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:59 am

Hi

it's in the paintshop of Qaps at AMS now.

You can check HERE

It seems to me the F100 gets the same livery as shown on the 737?


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Should become a very nice Fokker flying around soon (hopefully it flies, this one is known for a lot of technical problems, hence the retirement by KL after a very short service with them!)

Eric
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
 
sk601
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:07 am

IIRC the PH-LMV was one of the latest additions to KL's F100 fleet and also one of the first to be painted in the updated KL-livery. I'm kind of surprised that this plane is leaving the fleet already.

Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 1):
this one is known for a lot of technical problems, hence the retirement by KL after a very short service with them!

Why would another airline takeover the plane if it's known for having regular problems?? Can anybody explain that??  confused 
 
9252fly
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:37 am

I believe 5T is getting two F100 from KL. Interesting choice of aircraft,then again they have been operating two F28 for a number of years,which are due to leave the fleet shortly.
 
CP744
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:06 am

Eric.... Thanks for the link...... to the best of my knowledge, yes it will be in the full new livery as shown on the 737.

The technical problems are well know to Canadian North, and they have been assured that KLM has resolved all the issues. With the route structure and planned usage, the F-100 made more sense from a cost point of view than another 737, it will also allow for almost a 100% increase in capacity from YYC. Hardly a big increase in available seats  Wink

The last F-28 C-FTAY drop dead date is the middle of June, however the plan is to retire it by mid May.

And yes, there will be a second F-100 at some point, however I don't know if it has been finalized, nor where it will come from. Rumour has a newer 737 being based in YYC in '07 as well..... but like all rumours in this business..... crazy 

Cheers
 
petertenthije
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:21 am

So, is the ETD already known?
Attamottamotta!
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting SK601 (Reply 2):
Why would another airline takeover the plane if it's known for having regular problems??

They were told it's just fine biggrin 
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
petertenthije
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:19 am

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 5):
So, is the ETD already known?

Answering my own question: according to the forum at scramble.nl the plane is due to leave sunday at 12:00.


reply 4
http://www.scramble.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21662
Attamottamotta!
 
aviopic
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:31 am

Quoting SK601 (Reply 2):
I'm kind of surprised that this plane is leaving the fleet already.

I am not Big grin

Quoting CP744 (Reply 4):
The technical problems are well know to Canadian North, and they have been assured that KLM has resolved all the issues.

CN. 11301 or better known as ex TAM PT-MQM came to KL is a very sorry state........ they should have listened to me  Wink
After a few months trying KL decided there was no point to continue and they (sold ?) it to Fokker Services who fully serviced it.
So KL did not resolve anything but Fokker Services did, besides KL doesn't do mx on the Fokker fleet anyway.

Willem
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
CP744
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 8):
After a few months trying KL decided there was no point to continue and they (sold ?) it to Fokker Services who fully serviced it

Thanks for that bit of info.... I wasn't aware that it had been sold? or sent to Fokker Services. I did hear that KLM did ground it as they couldn't seem to figure out the issues... or who ever was doing the mx. However, it can't be any worse the the F-28???? Can it???? Big grin

Cheers
 
aviopic
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting CP744 (Reply 9):
Thanks for that bit of info

Y.W.

Quoting CP744 (Reply 9):
I wasn't aware that it had been sold?

I am not fully aware of the financiel construction between TAM-KL-Fokker CP744 which is why i did put the question mark at the end but just that this aircraft was more on the ground with failure then flying in the air.

Daily mx on the KL Fokker fleet is done by Martinair and component mx by Fokker Services.

Quoting CP744 (Reply 9):
However, it can't be any worse the the F-28???? Can it????

If the Canadian (avionics)engineers are willing to put some time in it they will find it easier to maintain.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
CP744
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 10):
If the Canadian (avionics)engineers are willing to put some time in it they will find it easier to maintain.

Interesting..... Mx is the one issue that I look forward to seeing how they will handle. Presently, the F-28 is looked after by AC Jazz, and the B732 by AC mainline. Both have no experience with the F-100...... Although there must be techs around from Jetsgo.

Cheers
 
timeair
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:32 pm

Good to see 5T updating fleet type, especially for the YEG-YHY skeds and assumably YEG-YMM charter markets. I always wanted KI to get an F100 but alas, big brother wouldn't let us due to scope clause...will look awesome in your new colours!
Any word if it will op 5T444/5T445 YEG-YZF/YVQ/YEV??
You can't get there from here.
 
CP744
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:57 pm

Quoting Timeair (Reply 12):
Any word if it will op 5T444/5T445 YEG-YZF/YVQ/YEV??

It will operate just as the F-28.

So on Mon, Wed, Fri 5T462/463 YYC-YZF-YHY-YEG-YHY-YZF-YYC / / 5T422/445 YYC-YEG-YYC

On Tue and Thur 5T466/467 YYC-YEG-YVQ-YEV-YVQ-YEG-YYC / / 5T422/445 YYC-YEG-YYC

Editied to add: Or that's the sked right now, there may some minor changes in times, but I don't see the routing changing..... not in the next couple of months. Allot will depend on the second F-100 (when) and CNRL requirements

[Edited 2006-04-12 16:14:21]
 
yow
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:07 pm

I wonder if 5T will configure this aircraft with extra legroom like 7F have recently done with their 2 'new' 732s? But given the 5T F100s are supposed to spend a good chunk of time shuttling workers up to YMM, that probably won't happen.
 
CP744
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:21 pm

I've heard 100 seats.... but I guess that might be just a number that's been used in conversation.... perhaps not the exact number.

Cheers

Bill
 
CP744
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:34 am

Quoting Timeair (Reply 12):
especially for the YEG-YHY

Anyone want to guess or has an opinion on when 5T will stop flying to YHY and turn it over to someone with a DHC8????  stirthepot 
 
md90fan
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:53 am

Always nice to see small/niche carriers expand  Smile Also good because the F100 is gonna be in another livery. I hope it suits them will.

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Finally it seems carriers are realising the potential of these good little jets
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markabcan
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting CP744 (Reply 16):
Anyone want to guess or has an opinion on when 5T will stop flying to YHY and turn it over to someone with a DHC8????

I agree that a F100 is slightly large for the YHY market although the majority of these flight are just stopping on the way to Edmonton or Yellowknife. I can't see another carrier successfully breaking into the northern market that Canadian North and First Air pretty much have wrapped up. Many people on these routes require connections to destination in the north that other carriers just could not provide. The northern airlines will also always get the northern government contract as it would look bad for the government to support an outside airline!

Is the F100 going to be based in Calgary?
 
aviopic
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting CP744 (Reply 11):
Presently, the F-28 is looked after by AC Jazz, and the B732 by AC mainline. Both have no experience with the F-100

The mechanics will have no problem at all with the F100 as it it largely identical to the F28, of course parts have changed but a landing gear is a landing gear and a turbine is a turbine no matter where it is coming from.
The AC Jazz people have a huge F28 experience so I don't expect problems in that area.

The only part where the might find themselves struggling are the avionics as the F100 is quite advanced.
People tent to think that a little A/C has little avionics but they forget that the F100 autopilot(2 or 3 channel cat.3 a-c) for example is based on the B76 albeit heavily modified and improved to make it suit the rest of the F100 dedicated and fully integrated avionics suite.
There are just as much avionics in a F100 then in a B76 or any other 2 engine A/C but then packed in the little space available.
Infect many items still won't be found in the much newer B73NG like a fully integrated and centralized flight warning system, dedicated autopilot maintenance computer, dark cockpit philosophy and so on.
It's easy with properly educated people and hell without. Big grin

Quoting CP744 (Reply 11):
Although there must be techs around from Jetsgo.

Don't know but it sounds logical.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
9252fly
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:47 am

The F28 was designed to operate in Third-World countries on runways that would be considered less than desirable. Just take a look at the landing gear on a F28,it's really heavy duty and has been used on gravel runways in northern Canada. My question is,does the F100(F70)have the same characteristics?
 
aviopic
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting 9252fly (Reply 20):
My question is,does the F100(F70)have the same characteristics?

Nope not really and of course the F100 is a lot heavier(about 7000kg) then the F28.
Still it seems to do ok on a grass strip  Wink

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yow
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting Markabcan (Reply 18):
I can't see another carrier successfully breaking into the northern market that Canadian North and First Air pretty much have wrapped up.

Jazz will start flying to Yellowknife this summer. But other than YZF & YXY, I don't think there's anywhere to go for a southern carrier, maybe YFB in 10 years time or YEV if the Mackenzie pipline causes Inuvik to boom.
 
JRadier
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:58 am

Quoting Aviopic (Reply 21):
Still it seems to do ok on a grass strip Wink

For those who don't know the story behind this pic:

It was quite a common occurance for testflights coming back to AMS going via Texel for a t/g for the airport 'operator' Ed de Bruin (pretty well known here in the netherlands.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
CP744
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Markabcan (Reply 18):
Is the F100 going to be based in Calgary?

Yes.... It is replacing the F-28 in YYC, if a second one comes online it will also be based in YYC.

Cheers
 
markabcan
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:12 am

I certainly look forward to seeing this aircraft flying around YYC sometime soon. I wonder what would be the possible candidates for the eventual replacement for the 737s of all northern carriers(Firstair, Cdn North, Air North).
Embraers 195 if they could turn it into a combi configuration perhaps? The Fokkers are certainly good enough for now!

Also, is YYC the pilot base for cdn north? Was Cdn North part of Canadian Airlines back in the day, if so are most of the pilots ex Canadian Airline pilots?
Thanks guys.
 
timeair
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:37 am

The only carrier that may be suited for this run would be 7F with their ATR42 aircraft, however, J3 out of YSM may be interested in getting an aircraft like the DH8-100 and extending their current YLW-YQU sked to include YHY, and more than just on Saturdays, as having lived in YHY, YLW was a good draw during summer months.
You can't get there from here.
 
CP744
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:53 pm

Quoting Markabcan (Reply 25):
Also, is YYC the pilot base for cdn north?

Most of the pilots are based in YEG, only the F-28 pilots are based in YYC.

Quoting Markabcan (Reply 25):
Was Cdn North part of Canadian Airlines back in the day, if so are most of the pilots ex Canadian Airline pilots?

Yes, The division was purchased in '98 by Norterra Inc from Canadian Airlines, before all the happiness with AC..  Wink. We have a few pilots from Canadian, but certainly not allot.
 
yow
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting CP744 (Reply 16):
Anyone want to guess or has an opinion on when 5T will stop flying to YHY and turn it over to someone with a DHC8????

Doubtful 5T would ever want to abandon this route. If they did, 7F would likely be all over it with an ATR.

Quoting Markabcan (Reply 25):
I certainly look forward to seeing this aircraft flying around YYC sometime soon. I wonder what would be the possible candidates for the eventual replacement for the 737s of all northern carriers(Firstair, Cdn North, Air North).
Embraers 195 if they could turn it into a combi configuration perhaps? The Fokkers are certainly good enough for now!

E-Jets aren't a viable option as they dont have sufficient width to handle pallets. There really isn't a direct replacement for a gravel-equipped 732. A 146 could land on those airstrips, but even they lack the same cargo handling capabilities.

Within a year 7F are supposed to select the 757 or 762 frieghter for the eastern food-mail run, YOW-YVO-YVP-YFB to replace the 722F.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:57 pm

Just a few points...

-F100 will replace F28, but not 737s.

-Embraers would not make good combis, neither would BAe146s, or CRJs, or any other regional jet.

-A320series/737NG would be doable for the cargo load, but wouldn't last 50 feet on the gravel runways

-Alot of Canadian North employees are not ex-Canadian, as the Canadian people in most cases got a better deal to move to a Canadian city than they would have if they switched to AirNorTerra, also known as todays Canadian North

-A friend recently told me that a company called "Aroe Metal fab." will be maintaining the F100

-Air North could replace their 732s with any of these aircraft, they are just keeping the 732s because they are cheap. 4N is in a completly different class than First Air and Canadian North, as 4N's 737s are non-combis and fly to places with long paved runways (YXY,YYC,YEG,YVR)


CanadianNorth
What could possibly go wrong?
 
markabcan
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:54 pm

I would be interested in some information on the history of Canadian North. Were they at one time part of Canadian Airlines? If so why were they not part of the Air Canada aquisition?
 
Fiedman
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:39 pm

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5707880

Check this picture out, right out of the paint shop
Westjet - Canada's National Low-fare Airline
 
aviopic
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:55 pm

Quoting Fiedman (Reply 31):
Check this picture out, right out of the paint shop

The QAPS people have done a brilliant job again.
To bad I wasn't at work to see it for myself  Sad
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
JRadier
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:05 am

I just got the first photo of this bird in the database, enjoy!


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Photo © Jurgen Radier



Jurgen
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
markabcan
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:04 am

Is it just me or is the polar bear logo on the tail slightly small? The polar bear logo on the other aircraft in the fleet including the F28 is definately bigger. Not a big deal just thought I would mention it.
 
fallingeese
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:36 am

She sure looks good.

Any idea on the ETA into Calgary?
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:21 am

Thanks, I've been waiting a long time to see a Fokker in the full Canadian North colours!



CanadianNorth
What could possibly go wrong?
 
aviopic
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 33):
I just got the first photo of this bird in the database, enjoy!

Well done Jurgen.
Any info about the departure date and time ?
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
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airkas1
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:43 am

Hai Willem,

MPE100 14:46A KEF PH-LMV 100

*source: Scramble*
Airliners.net Crew - Head Photo Screener
 
aviopic
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting AirKas1 (Reply 38):
Hai Willem,

MPE100 14:46A KEF PH-LMV 100

A night owl like me ? hehe
Nou da's lekker dan, gemist.

Thanks for the info Kas, to bad I missed it.
The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
 
JRadier
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:05 pm

Quoting Fallingeese (Reply 35):

according to scramble(.nl):

Routing to Calgary is EHAM-BIKF-CYFB-CYYC, although depending on the winds there might is a fuel stop between Iqualuit and Calgary, I believe that the options were CYRT, CYYQ,CYXE or CYEG (Rankin Inlet, Churchill, Saskatoon, or Edmonton), with the last being the most likely.
ETA in Calgary is approx. 1400 local time today (Monday 17/4), although if a fuel stop is required, that might shift.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
fallingeese
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 40):
ETA in Calgary is approx. 1400 local time today (Monday 17/4), although if a fuel stop is required, that might shift.

Thank you, I'm watching the flight right now on flytecomm. I hope to get her arriving.
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
CP744
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:22 am

MPE100 ARR YYC 13:57L about 23 minutes ago... Pretty impressive range..... with no paxs....  Wink
 
fallingeese
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:50 am

I got it arriving earlier this afternoon, she snuck in on Rwy 25. The photos of the aircraft arriving are on http://www.contrailsphotography.com
Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
 
JRadier
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RE: Canadian North F-100 In AMS

Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:55 am

Looks pretty similar...  Wink That's a good thing tho
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther

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