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PanAm_DC10
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Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:48 pm

Seems that the Chinese haven't quite finished their buying from Boeing

By Tian Ying
April 12 (Bloomberg) -- Boeing Co., the world's second-largest commercial aircraft maker, said it aims to win orders for 20 more planes from airlines in China this year to help keep its lead over Airbus SAS.

Boeing has a total target to win orders for 120 planes in China this year. Of these, 80 were signed yesterday and 20 were booked in January, Rob Laird, vice president of China sales for Boeing said on a conference call today.


[snip]

Boeing also aims to sell the 777 model in China, said Laird today. The 777 200LR, the world's longest-range aircraft.

``As Chinese airlines expand their international sectors, they will have increased demand for that type,'' said Laird today. ``We are talking to several airlines about 777s and we are making progress.''


[END - Fair use excerpt - http://www.bloomberg.com ]

There is more in the story but the information is widely known and reported already on this site.

However, I can add that Air China, China Southern and Shanghai Airlines are the 3 main carriers involved. With Hainan a potential too. Air China is expected to take the 772LR & 773ER whilst Shanghai Airlines are reported to be interested in 5 x 772Fs. All 777s should be 772LR, 772F or 773ER*

*Note: that information is my opinion as I cannot provide a link to it.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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gunsontheroof
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:01 pm

Cool. Hopefully we'll see some of these start up service from mainland China to Seattle...
 
kaitak744
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:06 pm

Where could Air China use the 777-200LR???

South America maybe? But I thought that can be done with a 777-300ER.
 
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 2):
Where could Air China use the 777-200LR???

South America maybe? But I thought that can be done with a 777-300ER.

They may not need the capacity of the 773ER, and might be going for the 772LR for engine commonality benefits. Their existing 772A frames are PW powered.

Interesting, seeing as Boeing has not had that much penetration of the mainland China market with the 777. Airbus has had more success with its widebody models (well OK, just with the A330).
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:34 pm

One more comment as the story has been updated;

``We are working with several of the airlines on both new freighters and converted freighters,'' Laird. ``There is a huge opportunity out there in the freight and cargo market.''

[END - Fair use excerpt - http://www.bloomberg.com ]


I know it's a brief statement but the order for the 772F will influence the order and / or intentions of another non Chinese airline and their 777 orders and commitments. Some may get the hint  Wink

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ikramerica
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:05 pm

This is good news for airbus, as we should see 20 340 orders soon after. If trends hold.
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:08 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
This is good news for airbus, as we should see 20 340 orders soon after. If trends hold.

It maybe even better for Airbus if the trend holds. Contingent upon what Airbus do with the A350 design it could lead to an A350 order instead.

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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:14 pm

Shanghai Airlines is sure heading their way to Star Alliance.
 
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:27 pm

What's intersting is that most 777 orders were filled by 2001 and very few delivered since. This includes the A340s as only five A346 made its way to MU in 2003/2004. In fact long-haul aircraft orders from China have been extremely small compared to the large number of 737/A320-class aircraft ordered in the past few years.
Starting this year there will be many A330s being delivered but long-haul aircraft orders are still lacking. This is while many foreign carriers are adding long-haul flights. Perhaps now its the Chinese carriers turn.
 
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:54 pm

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 4):
I know it's a brief statement but the order for the 772F will influence the order and / or intentions of another non Chinese airline and their 777 orders and commitments. Some may get the hint  Wink

thanks for the info PanAm_DC10...... Smile

this goes into my current theory of how the 777 series will still do well with the -300ER and -200F......

the 787 might have better CASM, but right now, it doesn't have any poweplants for a large upload compared to the 777's...(not to mention, the cargo space)
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:51 pm

Well China's President will visit the Everett factory shortly, so that would be a fitting place to announce a 777 order...
 
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:03 pm

Didn't one of the Chinese carriers already order 20 A330's recently (late last year)?

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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:16 pm

Mucho congrats to Boeing. It will be interesting to see which mix they order.
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Hamlet69
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
However, I can add that Air China, China Southern and Shanghai Airlines are the 3 main carriers involved.

If all three are involved, I would entirely expect more than 20 frames to be involved. If we add Hainan, I can easily see this number in the 30-35 range. . .

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 3):
Interesting, seeing as Boeing has not had that much penetration of the mainland China market with the 777.

Indeed. After CX's early order and additional leases, plus CA's order, the 777 did not see much interest in China mainland. There were long-running rumors that China Northern was poised to order some 777-200's, but nothing ever eventually happened. OTOH, as previously mentioned, China has shunned many long-haul options until very recently with the 787 and A330 being ordered in quantity.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
This is good news for airbus, as we should see 20 340 orders soon after.

I seriously doubt you'll see anymore A340 orders. However, if this order for 777's does take place, in conjunction with the previous 787 order, I believe you'll certainly see a sizeable A350 order in the near future.

Quoting UAL747-600 (Reply 11):
Didn't one of the Chinese carriers already order 20 A330's recently (late last year)?

2003
China Southern - 4 A330-200

2004
China Eastern - 5 A330-200, 15 A330-300

2005
Air China - 20 A330-200
China Southern - 2 A330-200, 8 A330-300


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Hamlet69
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 5):
This is good news for airbus, as we should see 20 340 orders soon after. If trends hold.

China has yet to "equalize" the five A380s they ordered, so if they don't want 748I's, a bunch of 773ERs would help "balance out" the order books in terms of raw value.  Smile
 
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:18 am

Well the order has not materialized. Wonder what's going on??
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:25 am

What's the list price for 777 versus 737? Basically how would 20 777 compare to 80 737?
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Hamlet69
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 15):
Well the order has not materialized. Wonder what's going on??

What do you mean?


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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 17):
What do you mean?

I think he thought it would be announced with the visit. If that were the case I doubt we would have heard anything about it. I expect Boeing was talking about the future. Anyway, such a order can't be jumped into lightly given the diversity of airlines needs and the diverse models in the 777 family.
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Hamlet69
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 18):
I think he thought it would be announced with the visit.

Ah. Yes, this is definitely a "future" order, and not one that will be announced now or during next week's presidential visit. As the thread starter stated (my bold):


Boeing has a total target to win orders for 120 planes in China this year.


Boeing is hoping these 777 orders will happen sometime this year, but nothing is firm as of yet.


Regards,

Hamlet69
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:51 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 3):
Interesting, seeing as Boeing has not had that much penetration of the mainland China market with the 777. Airbus has had more success with its widebody models (well OK, just with the A330).

Perhaps not during last year's 777 rush, no. But otherwise the apron at PEK is packed with 777s, CA and CZ ones.

All in all, good news for Boeing; seems that huge building of theirs at the China World Trade Center in Beijing is paying off.
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
PanAm_DC10

Always good info from you Paul. Thanks like always and enjoy reading your posts and updates. Any idea on a time frame ofr this order?

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 13):
I seriously doubt you'll see anymore A340 orders.

Come on VS and LH are going to keep this line open!  Smile
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:14 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 3):
Interesting, seeing as Boeing has not had that much penetration of the mainland China market with the 777. Airbus has had more success with its widebody models (well OK, just with the A330).

China Eastern, Air China, and China Southwest (there may be others) certainly have quite a few A340s... perhaps your point wasn't that the A340s weren't selling at all, but rather not selling like EK's mega-orders?

(If so, my apologies in the nitpick.)
 
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 3):
They may not need the capacity of the 773ER, and might be going for the 772LR for engine commonality benefits. Their existing 772A frames are PW powered.

I don't quite understand this statement. Both the 773ER and 772LR are powered by the same engine, GE90-110B and GE90-115B. And if their existing 772A frames are PW powered, then how does that support engine commonality?
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:51 am

Quoting TeamREGAL (Reply 23):


I don't quite understand this statement. Both the 773ER and 772LR are powered by the same engine, GE90-110B and GE90-115B. And if their existing 772A frames are PW powered, then how does that support engine commonality?

The question I was responding to was asking why they would order the 772LR. Capacity and commonality with the 773ER were two possible reasons other than an absolute need for the 772LR's range and payload. I mentioned the 772A because they weren't 772ERs. What I was trying to say was if they need at least B market range-payload, since they don't already have the 772ER in fleet, ordering 772ERs may not make as much sense since it would require a somewhat different engine from what they have in fleet.

It also doesn't hurt that the 772LR be am excellent converted freighter later on in life, and that the fuel burn on the 772LR is better for most missions.
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Hamlet69
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Tigerotor77W (Reply 22):
China Eastern, Air China, and China Southwest (there may be others) certainly have quite a few A340s

Depends on what you consider "quite a few." China Eastern have 5 A340-300s and 5 A340-600s. Air China and China Southwest (now a part of Air China) both receieved 3 A340-300s apiece. That means a total of 16 A340's ordered by mainland carriers. (Surprise, surprise, this is exactly the same number of 777's ordered by Air China and China Southern combined. Of course, CZ is also leasing 4 additional 777's from ILFC).


Regards,

Hamlet69

[Edited 2006-04-13 05:18:33]
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tigerotor77w
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RE: Boeing: Expect 20 777 Orders From China

Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 25):
Depends on what you consider "quite a few." China Eastern have 5 A340-300s and 5 A340-600s. Air China and China Southwest (now a part of Air China) both receieved 3 A340-300s apiece. That means a total of 16 A340's ordered by mainland carriers. (Surprise, surprise, this is exactly the same number of 777's ordered by Air China and China Southern combined. Of course, CZ is also leasing 4 additional 777's from ILFC).


Regards,

Hamlet69

Thanks for the clarification.

To be honest... I didn't check it out. I had thought the A340 was outselling the 777, so my mistake.

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