panamair
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DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:56 am

DL will start Saturday-only LGA-LAS and LGA-LAX flights in addition to JFK-Burlington, VT. Also, JFK-RIC moved up to July 5 as noted previously in another thread:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060413/97391.html
 
AlexPorter
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:02 am

Doesn't LGA have some sort of distance restriction? Does it not apply on Saturdays?
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USPIT10L
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting Panamair (Thread starter):
DL will start Saturday-only LGA-LAS and LGA-LAX flights

How did DL get around the perimeter rules at LGA? I remember US announcing they would start LGA-LAS in 2003, but it was cancelled due to "hot and high" concerns at LAS. I don't recall anyone ever flying LGA-LAX before nonstop. I remember TWA flying DCA-LAX before AA acquired their assets, but the route authority was cancelled as soon as AA touched TW.
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ASFlyer
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:04 am

ATA flew a LGA-SFO Saturday nonstop for a while. The perimiter restrictions don't apply on the weekends.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Ser

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:11 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 3):
The perimiter restrictions don't apply on the weekends.

To be exact, the perimeter restriction do not apply on saturday ONLY. Hence how DL has already been able to operate SLC-LGA for a few months already. And LGA-LAX/LAS are definitely two nice additions to DL's network, even if they're just once weekly.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:16 am

DL will start service if the pilots don't strike first.
 
USPIT10L
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:19 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
To be exact, the perimeter restriction do not apply on saturday ONLY. Hence how DL has already been able to operate SLC-LGA for a few months already. And LGA-LAX/LAS are definitely two nice additions to DL's network, even if they're just once weekly.

Thanks DAL767400ER, I was wondering how they got those routes. SLC-LGA is a great idea, I'm surprised it wasn't thought of sooner. How do you get your info in Germany? You seem to be one of our resident "Delta guys." Welcome to my RR.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
N1120A
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:23 am

I don't really see a purpose to the LAX-LGA flights. There is already so much LAX-JFK service (even if you leave out the services from other area airports) that there really isn't a competitive justification for this. The most likely people to take flights to LGA, business travellers, are not likely to stay a full 7 days in one city or ther other and are even less likely to abandon their FF programs at United and American for it.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
wjcandee
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
I don't really see a purpose to the LAX-LGA flights.

The simple answer is that people will choose to fly to LGA if they can. And remember, there's no requirement that people return to the airport that they left from, or that they return nonstop. There are plenty of folks who fly DL from LGA and connect at ATL or CVG (or, in the old days, DFW) to get where they are going. We're only talking about one flight a day to each location, one flight that makes good use of the otherwise-less-productive asset -- the DL terminal. So, not only will they pick up vacationers who want to go to Vegas or LAX for a week, they'll pick up folks who will depart or arrive at LGA on one leg, then depart or arrive at another NY airport for the other, or who will connect for one leg and go nonstop on another.

Note that US has done this very successfully as well for its service to various tropical islands. On Saturday morning, there are numerous flights to Island destinations leaving from LGA. It's great. People either stay a week or they come back via a connection.

Meanwhile, I noticed today that the DL service to ORD from the Marine Air Terminal is rocking, with very high load factors and numerous sold-out flights, many at very high fares ($600+ o/w, $500+o/w) for last-minute seats. Shameful from a consumer perspective (go take ATA or Airtran for gosh's sakes), but good for DL.

[Edited 2006-04-13 20:32:39]
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
I don't really see a purpose to the LAX-LGA flights. There is already so much LAX-JFK service (even if you leave out the services from other area airports) that there really isn't a competitive justification for this. The most likely people to take flights to LGA, business travellers, are not likely to stay a full 7 days in one city or ther other and are even less likely to abandon their FF programs at United and American for it

A lot of New Yorkers prefer to fly out of LGA, I'm sure the route will do decently.
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jbmitt
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Ser

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
I don't really see a purpose to the LAX-LGA flights. There is already so much LAX-JFK service (even if you leave out the services from other area airports) that there really isn't a competitive justification for this. The most likely people to take flights to LGA, business travellers, are not likely to stay a full 7 days in one city or ther other and are even less likely to abandon their FF programs at United and American for it.

For loyal Delta customers.. it saves them a connection in CVG or ATL. Keeps passengers happy, saves them time. Leaving they can take a connection, out of LGA. There is no requirement for 7 days.
 
TIA
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
The most likely people to take flights to LGA, business travellers, are not likely to stay a full 7 days in one city or ther other and are even less likely to abandon their FF programs at United and American for it.

Not only that, but LGA also "loses" its competitive edge on weekends, since without that much traffic JFK is not that much harder to reach from Manhattan.
 
N1120A
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:43 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):

That all assumes they are going to allow fare rules crossing airports. Also, it places a whole lot of faith in travellers knowing to switch airports for one of their legs or wanting to fly into LGA so much that they are willing to increase their travel time by making a connection. Also, what if you are a person who drives and parks at the airport? You can't make an open jaw/return then

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 9):
A lot of New Yorkers prefer to fly out of LGA, I'm sure the route will do decently.

Sure, but you are still stuck with waiting a week, switching airports or connecting. All of that cancels out LGA's advantages. Additionally, the better public transportation to JFK and EWR add to their advantages.

Quoting TIA (Reply 11):
Not only that, but LGA also "loses" its competitive edge on weekends, since without that much traffic JFK is not that much harder to reach from Manhattan.

And they then lose all that time they supposedly saved by flying into LGA in the first place

Quoting Jbmitt (Reply 10):
For loyal Delta customers.. it saves them a connection in CVG or ATL. Keeps passengers happy, saves them time. Leaving they can take a connection, out of LGA. There is no requirement for 7 days.

Why would they want to take a connection if they booked a non-stop in the first place?
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N1120A
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:45 am

Please Delete, double post

[Edited 2006-04-13 20:48:54]
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Alitalia744
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:47 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Sure, but you are still stuck with waiting a week, switching airports or connecting. All of that cancels out LGA's advantages. Additionally, the better public transportation to JFK and EWR add to their advantages.

You don't have to do the round-trip through LGA, it provides another option in either direction.

As for public transportation, a lot of NYC natives take car services to the airport so that negates your latter comment.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
D950
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:49 am

It does seem odd that they do this after announcing that JFK was going to be their "hub". If they are that cash short, move things to JFK and sell, or lease the gates @ LGA and keep the Marine ternminal open for a few extra flights, as they have ample gate space there.
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N1120A
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 14):
As for public transportation, a lot of NYC natives take car services to the airport so that negates your latter comment.

It doesn't negate my comment. Some take car services, some take public transportation, some take cabs and some drive themselves. This all goes into the balance.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 14):
You don't have to do the round-trip through LGA, it provides another option in either direction.

Which diminishes the appeal of LGA
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
dutchjet
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:03 am

Funny, N1120A's viewpoint is correct from an objective viewpoint - why should DL bother with these two Saturday only services out of LGA? DL flies to the destinations out of JFK on a daily basis......but we are talking about NYC and LGA airport, and all of the normal rules change: a lot of NewYorkers really do prefer flying out of LGA (over JFK and EWR -even if both can be reached as quickly as LGA depending upon ones starting location) and jump at the chance to catch a flight out of LGA, especially to a destination that cannot oridnarily be served on a nonstop basis. The other issue is aircraft utilization - the two 757s will do turns to LAX and LAS respectively, when oridnarily they would be idle or flying biz routes with little demand on a Saturday.

It makes sense from a "new York point of view" and DL will do well with these two rather unsual weekly flights.
 
rwsea
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:10 am

I kind of agree that I don't see the point of these flights. How has the SLC-LGA doing? I guess if that flight has been successful, then the others can too.

The thing is that LGA is a business-oriented airport, and a once weekly flight on a Saturday won't really do much to attract business passengers. I think LAS will be more popular than LAX, but who knows. At least they're trying something new.
 
rwsea
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
Meanwhile, I noticed today that the DL service to ORD from the Marine Air Terminal is rocking, with very high load factors and numerous sold-out flights, many at very high fares ($600+ o/w, $500+o/w) for last-minute seats. Shameful from a consumer perspective (go take ATA or Airtran for gosh's sakes), but good for DL.

That's great news. It would be nice to see this grow into a niche market for DL. Maybe one day they could even put Shuttle aircraft on the route and market Delta Shuttle as serving LGA, ORD, BOS, DCA.

Quoting D950 (Reply 15):
It does seem odd that they do this after announcing that JFK was going to be their "hub". If they are that cash short, move things to JFK and sell, or lease the gates @ LGA and keep the Marine ternminal open for a few extra flights, as they have ample gate space there.

These cities already have plenty of service to DL's JFK hub.
 
TIA
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 19):
Quoting D950 (Reply 15):
It does seem odd that they do this after announcing that JFK was going to be their "hub". If they are that cash short, move things to JFK and sell, or lease the gates @ LGA and keep the Marine ternminal open for a few extra flights, as they have ample gate space there.

These cities already have plenty of service to DL's JFK hub.

Both LAX and LAS only have Song flights to JFK. And the point still remains, if you are trying to build up your hub at JFK, why add flights from LGA.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
That all assumes they are going to allow fare rules crossing airports.

They almost always do. I fly out of one NY airport and back to the other quite often--although I have occasionally seen deep-discount fares that don't allow this, it's unusual. The fares for the new LGA-LAX nonstop don't seem to be available on Expedia yet, but if you look at NYC-SLC on DL, for example, the fares are interchangeable with any combination of JFK, EWR and LGA.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Also, what if you are a person who drives and parks at the airport? You can't make an open jaw/return then

Very true. However, no one in Manhattan does this--mainly because most of us don't even own cars, but also because it would rarely be worth it to pay for parking at the airport when taxis are so cheap (well, relatively) and plentiful.

I'm with Wjcandee on this one. Although I don't love LGA so much that I would take a connection one way just to get a nonstop to LGA the other way, all other things being equal I would certainly choose DL's LGA flight if I were traveling on a Saturday, and then just fly in/out of JFK if the other leg doesn't fall on a Saturday. Even forgetting the shorter cab ride and more user-friendly terminal at LGA, I'd save $20 in cab fare, which as they say is better than a stick in the eye.  Smile
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
rwsea
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting TIA (Reply 20):
Both LAX and LAS only have Song flights to JFK. And the point still remains, if you are trying to build up your hub at JFK, why add flights from LGA.

1) JFK-LAX/LAS will be served by Song for only 17 more days.

2) LGA is a very strong focus city for DL, despite their JFK hub.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting TIA (Reply 20):
And the point still remains, if you are trying to build up your hub at JFK, why add flights from LGA.

As RWSea has pointed out, LGA is a focus city, and of high interest of DL. Hence why you see DL adding LGA-ORD/DFW and now LGA-LAX/LAS. Plus, while both markets are in the same MSA and have overlap, they actually serve different markets for DL, in that LGA is focused on O&D pax for DL, whereas JFK, while also serving O&D, is primarily of interest as a connection airport, between their Euro network on the one hand and their domestic and shorthaul int'l network on the other hand.

Quoting D950 (Reply 15):
move things to JFK

Or in other words, leave the relatively LCC-free airport and instead focus more on going head-to-head with B6, right?

Quoting D950 (Reply 15):
and sell, or lease the gates @ LGA and keep the Marine ternminal open for a few extra flights, as they have ample gate space there.

So instead of having a total of 14 gates plus hardstands available, DL should operate all flights out of 6 gates plus way less hard stands, a total of some 120 daily flights? Yeah, that's gonna help the bottom line, providing you ever manage to pay off all the costs brought up by massive delays due to lack of gate space.

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
How do you get your info in Germany? You seem to be one of our resident "Delta guys." Welcome to my RR.

Thanks for that Big grin . The internet is very helpful with this, particularly sites aside from a.net where people actually provide infos about an airline instead of always complaining about it  Wink .
 
TIA
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 23):
As RWSea has pointed out, LGA is a focus city, and of high interest of DL. Hence why you see DL adding LGA-ORD/DFW and now LGA-LAX/LAS. Plus, while both markets are in the same MSA and have overlap, they actually serve different markets for DL, in that LGA is focused on O&D pax for DL, whereas JFK, while also serving O&D, is primarily of interest as a connection airport, between their Euro network on the one hand and their domestic and shorthaul int'l network on the other hand.

LGA-ORD/DFW is completely different from LGA-LAX/LAS. No one is questioning DL's daily business-heavy routes ex-LGA, but the point is that there is no advantage for people to choose that airport over JFK or EWR on a Saturday. Someone else mentioned US and their flights from LGA to the islands on Saturdays. First of all, until the merger, US had no presence at JFK whatsoever, so obviously all their flights had to be from LGA. Secondly, the holiday caribbean market can sustain Saturday-only flights, since many people go on vacation for a whole week, and since Saturday is known as timeshare day and flights to sunny destinations are usually packed then.
 
N1120A
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 21):
Very true. However, no one in Manhattan does this--mainly because most of us don't even own cars, but also because it would rarely be worth it to pay for parking at the airport when taxis are so cheap (well, relatively) and plentiful.

I'm with Wjcandee on this one. Although I don't love LGA so much that I would take a connection one way just to get a nonstop to LGA the other way, all other things being equal I would certainly choose DL's LGA flight if I were traveling on a Saturday, and then just fly in/out of JFK if the other leg doesn't fall on a Saturday. Even forgetting the shorter cab ride and more user-friendly terminal at LGA, I'd save $20 in cab fare, which as they say is better than a stick in the eye.

Or you can just take public transport to JFK and EWR and save a bundle
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dutchjet
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:33 am

Guys - unless you have lived in NYC (I have) and know lots of New Yorkers, you're simply not gonna understand this one.....its all about LGA. People from New York (especially Manhattanites and those from Bronx and Westchester Counties) swear by LGA and will always choose for LGA if available. As I said above, the new once per week DL services out of LGA dont make a lot of sense from a purely practical point of view - its simply a NYC thing.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:34 am

Quoting TIA (Reply 24):
the point is that there is no advantage for people to choose that airport over JFK or EWR on a Saturday

This is where many New Yorkers disagree. Wjcandee and myself, for example, DO see an advantage to LGA over JFK or EWR on Saturday (or any other day of the week for that matter!).

I can hop in a cab and get from my apartment to LGA in about 15 minutes for about $20. Neither JFK nor EWR can come anywhere close to topping that, even under ideal conditions. When you also factor in the nightmarish Delta terminal at JFK, it's a no-brainer. All other things being equal, many people strongly prefer LGA. And it's not just Manhattan--the same goes for people on the North Shore of Long Island, Westchester, etc.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
FoxBravo
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
Or you can just take public transport to JFK and EWR and save a bundle

First of all, you don't really save a bundle that way--in fact, if you're not traveling alone, it can be more.

For EWR, first you need to get to Penn Station, which (unless you're within walking distance) will set you back $2 for the subway or bus, then a ripoff of $14 for the train. If you're two people, though, that's $32, which is already more than the taxi and toll to LGA.

To JFK, it can be cheaper, just $2 if you take the A train, plus $5 to get onto the Airtrain, but that's a looong ride. For a quicker ride, it's $2 to Penn Station, then $7 peak or $5 off peak on the LIRR to Jamaica, plus the $5 Airtrain fee. Again, if you're two people, you're better off with the cab to LGA.

In either case, public transportation is a pain if you've got anything more than carry-on luggage. Don't get me wrong, I love the Airtrain, and use it often, but it still doesn't beat LGA.

Finally, if you're really trying to save money, your best bet is public transportation...to LGA! Take the subway (or another bus) and get a free transfer to the M60 bus, which goes right to the terminals at LGA. All for a grand total of $2.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 26):
Guys - unless you have lived in NYC (I have) and know lots of New Yorkers, you're simply not gonna understand this one.....its all about LGA.

Amen.  Smile
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
HVNandrew
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting TIA:
Both LAX and LAS only have Song flights to JFK. And the point still remains, if you are trying to build up your hub at JFK, why add flights from LGA.

LGA is going to be a DL focus city forever - they're never going to combine the LGA ops with those at JFK, and for good reason. LGA has a huge market. So many New Yorkers, Westchester County and Connecticut residents would take LGA over JFK any day. DL has their terminal there, and they're smart to stay there while they expand JFK.

And about the "perimeter rule", I believe it's set to expire in 2007. DL could be getting a head start in the LGA-LAS/LAX market with these Saturday only flights.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:03 am

"And about the "perimeter rule", I believe it's set to expire in 2007. DL could be getting a head start in the LGA-LAS/LAX market with these Saturday only flights."

The perimeter rule is a rule imposed by the Port Authority of NY and NJ to move long haul flights to JFK. The one exception to the rule is DEN. That particular city was grandfathered into the LGA perimeter because UAL served the route prior to the perimeter rule being enacted.

The Perimter Rule is not set to expire.

What is set to expire in the next year or so are the FAA imposed emergency slots following the Air 21 disaster in 2000. The slot rule will also be extended as it was imposed in the 'interest and safety' of aviation just a few months after the slots were lifted in 2000.

PJ
 
TIA
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 27):
This is where many New Yorkers disagree.



Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 28):
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 26):
Guys - unless you have lived in NYC (I have) and know lots of New Yorkers, you're simply not gonna understand this one.....its all about LGA.

Amen. Smile

And you assume that I don't live in NY. Well, I do, when I am not in school.

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 27):
When you also factor in the nightmarish Delta terminal at JFK, it's a no-brainer.

I am no fan of DL's JFK terminal, but it's not like LGA offers superb facilities.

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 29):
LGA is going to be a DL focus city forever - they're never going to combine the LGA ops with those at JFK, and for good reason.

No one is suggesting that DL pull out of LGA. I am quite aware of LGA's advantages for many business travelers, but this Saturday only service is not targeting the typical LGA customer.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting TIA (Reply 31):
And you assume that I don't live in NY.

I did no such thing. Your profile even says you live in NY. Re-read my comment that was responding to you--all I said was that "many New Yorkers disagree", which is true judging by the other responses here and the many people I know who do have a strong preference for LGA.

Quoting TIA (Reply 31):
I am no fan of DL's JFK terminal, but it's not like LGA offers superb facilities.

Have you been to the Delta terminal at LGA lately? I've never waited more than a couple of minutes at the security checkpoint, there is plenty of seating in the gate areas, there are perfectly adequate stores and a conveniently located Starbucks, and there is a nice large Crown Room. What's not to like?
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
worldtraveler
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:27 am

you all are missing the competitive advantage of being able to say you have nonstop service to LAX and LAS from BOTH LGA and JFK. Unless AA or UA do the same thing, DL has an advantage at least from a marketing standpoint.

The flights are timed for the peak Sat departures from both airports. If anything, it will take a little bit of stress off of the JFK transcons which will be very heavy during the summer supporting the international flights.

As for fares, fares are filed to NYC and they apply to both LGA and JFK unless a carrier specifically have restrictions filed to restrict them to a particular airport. There is no reason why a passenger couldn't fly into LGA and out of JFK or vv.
 
wjcandee
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 24):
there is no advantage for people to choose that airport over JFK or EWR on a Saturday

Obviously, you've never experienced weekend construction on the Van Wyck.

Those of you who don't understand why these Saturday-only flights beyond the perimeter would make sense are being completely rational. However, as students of the airline industry, you have to know that rational doesn't always enter into it. JFK is 1.5 hours from my apartment even when it only takes 30 minutes to get there -- because I'd be insane not to leave 1.5 hours to take the car service there if I had an important flight. EWR is a good hour-plus, even on Saturday morning at 7 am. Why? Because one time I actually almost missed a flight because the freakin' tunnel was down to one sporadic lane while they did all sorts of crap stopping and starting the traffic. You can never tell what the traffic will do in New York, but I can get to LGA within a fast and predictable amount of time far more often than I can get anywhere else. Yes, there's public transportation. Yes, it isn't entirely rational. But so many people like myself just plain prefer LGA, and there's no real way to explain the preference.

That said, I've never had a major delay at either LGA DL terminal, especially the MAT. I just show up with my preprinted boarding pass and zip through. Same for US.

DL has a long history at LGA and is well-known to many New Yorkers there. It's a history and reputation that was established well before they bought all those international routes from Pan Am. In fact, there are probably still many New Yorkers who know that if they want to go to Florida (or anywhere on the East Coast), a very convenient way to do it is by DL from LGA. I remember a DL Senior VP a few years ago making essentially the following comment in a published article: "I was talking to a lady on one of our LGA flights the other day, and she was telling me at length about how wonderful our airline was and how she had flown us all over the country from LGA for years. She told me how it was too bad that we didn't go to Europe because she goes there a lot. It made me realize that we had a long way to go with our international marketing in New York."

Now if only they could run those flights from LGA!  Smile
 
n844aa
Posts: 1266
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 1:23 pm

FoxBravo covered it most ably above, but I wanted to back him up and offer another perspective on airport access. The rail links to JFK and EWR are well-developed but fairly expensive (especially EWR) and not particularly fast. I've really come to love service out of LGA and try pretty hard to avoid using EWR or JFK if at all possible. And if my wife's flying in, and I need to meet her out at the airport, it's no contest -- $48 total if she's flying into Newark? That's cab fare to LGA and back again. But even on my own, not having to move bags onto and off the subway, through Penn Station, onto and off NJ Transit, through the rail/Airtrain link, onto and off the ridiculously tiny Airtrain modules at EWR... ugh.

I was having to fly a lot last fall, mostly to cities within the LGA perimeter (Chicago, DFW, Houston), and I'm not sure if I can think of an airport anywhere that I'd rather leave from. Even at the height of rush hour traffic, it's still frequently a reliable half-hour from my neighborhood, and security at the AA concourse has never taken more than a few minutes for me. Plus there's a surprisingly good sushi bar just outside the D concourse security checkpoint with a great view of the AA ramp and the runway intersection. I almost don't mind when my flight's delayed.

As far as public transportation to the airport goes, the M60 is fantastic, particularly for the price, especially after 9 p.m. Twenty minutes from the airport to a block from my front door for $2? Yes, please.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:44 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 34):
Now if only they could run those flights from LGA!

Well, theorethically, DL could operate saturday-only flights to DUB and SNN, as those have preclearance  Wink . Now, the economics of a once-weekly transatlantic flight, and getting a 763ER out of LGA to Europe are a whole different story  Silly .
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Ser

Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:51 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 36):
Well, theorethically, DL could operate saturday-only flights to DUB and SNN, as those have preclearance Wink . Now, the economics of a once-weekly transatlantic flight, and getting a 763ER out of LGA to Europe are a whole different story Silly .

I am pretty sure they couldn't. Shannon (I don't know about Dublin) has customs pre-clearence, but not immigration pre-clearence. You still need to clear immigration in the US (or it is the other way around, I don't recall). LGA isn't going to staff immigration for a weekly flight to Ireland.
a.
 
TWAL1011
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:19 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 37):
I am pretty sure they couldn't. Shannon (I don't know about Dublin) has customs pre-clearence, but not immigration pre-clearence. You still need to clear immigration in the US (or it is the other way around, I don't recall). LGA isn't going to staff immigration for a weekly flight to Ireland.

Actually, Dublin & Shannon both have U.S. immigration pre-clearance. No customs clearance is available until arrival in the USA.
 
panamair
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:31 am

Chiming in as a New Yorker/Manhattanite, LGA-LAX is brilliant, even if it's a Saturday-only service. From mid-town East Side Manhattan, LGA is merely a 12-15 minute taxi ride away on a Sat. morning. Sure, the AirTrain has made getting to JFK easier but it is essentially still a pain, having to change at Jamaica, etc. I would pick the LGA-LAX flight any day over any flight from JFK...Bravo, Delta! That's the kind of innovative network planning that DL has been missing all these years and now finally has in place...
 
wjcandee
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:11 am

I should also mention something that shouldn't enter into it, but does. If you're coming (home) to New York, nothing says Noooo Yawk like an approach into LGA, regardless of direction.

Take that Expressway approach and you come in over the the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, with the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island RIGHT THERE off the port side of the a/c, then lower Manhattan and up parallel to the East River so you can see the whole skyline, then you scrape the roofs off of some cars on the expressway and brake hard so you don't go into the water. What fun! Or, you break off the Expressway approach and swing east over Queens and the World's Fair and the US Tennis Center and Shea Stadium, giving the pilots a chance to fly what would anywhere else be considered an illegal unstabilized approach, and show off their pilot skills. Hint: it's fun as hell in a 717, but really freakin' impressive in a 764 as the wings wag hard-left than hard-right then hard-left -- too cool! Or go North up the Hudson, look almost straight down to Ground Zero and up the West Side of Manhattan, north over the Bronx, Westchester, Long Island Sound, etc., then over Riker's Island (welcome to New York -- Be Good!), think you're about to land in the bay, then the wheels hit the pier while you still think there's water all around. Again, you brake like mad so as not to end up on the Expressway.

It's all just too fun, and something you really don't get at EWR, where you see Manhattan off in the distance as you serenely descend over the Turnpike (even though it is fun to race the cars when you're on the runway), or JFK.

In fact, when I explain to folks why I moved back to NYC from Dallas, I usually mention a flight home for the holidays. I was at the time feeling pretty good about how my career was going in Dallas: my name was known where it should have been, I got invited to blah, blah, this and that, I got in the paper from time-to-time, I had a great place, a great car, a great office high in the downtown sky, a great secretary and staff, and an easy commute. And I'm sitting in First on a DL flight to LGA and we bank over on the approach and I look down at Manhattan at night and there's just no reaction that one can have other than: "Wow. THAT's the Big Time." So here I am -- the same size fish, but in a vastly bigger pond.

Bottom line: one thing about LGA that falls into the irrational appeal category is that it says New York like noplace else. One reason that it's named after Mayor LaGuardia -- besides the fact that he was one of the greatest mayors New York ever had -- is that he famously was peeved when his flight to New York landed at Newark Airport (which was then the primary airport for New York) and insisted that New York should have an airport much closer to Manhattan. He had the City acquire Glen Curtiss's (Curtiss-Wright Airport Corporation's) private little airport which had closed during the depression, and (with WPA Federal funds to a large degree) built on that site what was then the largest most expensive airport in the world. It rapidly became the busiest international airport in the country (yep -- International -- by way of the flying boats from the Marine Air Terminal). [Idlewild wasn't built for another decade.]

How fun it is that 70 years later, Mayor LaGuardia's pet project is still the favorite airport of so many New Yorkers, with a convenience-to-downtown rivalled only by airports like DAL and DCA.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 3278
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:37 am

I lived in New York for over 20 years. People who havn't spent alot of time in the NYC area dont realize that 10 miles further and over six dollar bridges with congested traffic is a big deal. Getting to LGA from Jersey for example on a map looks like an easy trip in reality it can be hell(worse) . Their is a reason why the New York area has so many airports its not an accident.

It is a New York thing but more likely its a traffic/congestion thing why people want a certain NYC area airport it depends on where you want to go
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:39 am

Quoting Slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 41):
It is a New York thing but more likely its a traffic/congestion thing why people want a certain NYC area airport it depends on where you want to go

How does that explain LAX?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15322
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RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 3):
ATA flew a LGA-SFO Saturday nonstop for a while.

...Which is one of the reasons I think this weekly LAS/LAX service will tank.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
dartland
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:09 am

RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:23 am

As a native New Yorker who grew up in Westchester and lived in Manhattan -- I back Wjcandee and FoxBravo and the other New Yorkers who know that LGA-LAX has great potential, even for Saturday only.

New Yorkers can be odd people, but we love our LGA, no two ways about it. Sure we'll bitch and complain when we're 45th in line for take-off, but certainly kill us now if someone dares ask us to schlep to JFK.

Good luck DL on LGA-LAX!

As an aside, people on A.net said DL had no chance of getting DFW-LGA to work, but I flew it last week and it was packed! Based on the fares I've seen for it, they're loads are VERY healthy, so kudos to them (and Shuttle America) for making that a success (or at least it would seem). People on A.net really underestimate the number of loyal SkyMiles members in the NY-metro area. That's the thing about LGA-LAX on Saturday -- it's simply additional capacity LAX-NYC for DL on Saturdays -- if they did it to JFK, nobody thinks twice, but at LGA, people think it can't work, when in reality, it could be great since New Yorkers often leave and return to two different airports and generally always prefer LGA.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15322
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 43):
...Which is one of the reasons I think this weekly LAS/LAX service will tank.

Speaking of which, TZ ran an average LF of 63% on LGA/SFO, on a Saturday when no one wants to fly anyway, on a transcon where the fares have been greatly reduced. I think some kind of cruise/package destination would be better but I'm interested to see how this will pan out.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ATA767
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2003 6:33 am

RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:07 am

Towards the end of this route the plane was closer to 80%+ full and these planes continued on to Hawaii so it made sense.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15322
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: DL Starts New LGA-LAS And LGA-LAX Sat Only Service

Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:05 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 46):
Towards the end of this route the plane was closer to 80%+ full and these planes continued on to Hawaii so it made sense.

Even more reason to believe the lone weekly NYC/West Coast segment will not do well.
E pur si muove -Galileo

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