nema
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Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:58 am

Having just replied to a thread regarding how safe is flying I thought I would mention a story of a friend of mine.

Back in 1988, he was at Heathrow trying to get a cheap discounted passage to Australia. Having already spoken with the Qantas desk to no avail, he left his name there on standby and began checking other options. Some how, along the way he was offered the more labourious option of flying Pan-Am to New York and then connecting from there down to Aussie. Eventually he decided that this was probably going to be his best option to avoid losing a day or two whilst a more direct cheapy came available, which still wouldnt be guaranteed. So he put himself in a queue to purchase a ticket on what was to be the ill fated Pan-Am flight 103 to JFK.

He recalls about 6 people in front of him purchasing Pan-Am tickets, one in particular was annoying him for taking so much time at the desk when, he was paged over the tannoy to make his way to the Qantas desk. Tired but hopeful, he gave up his place in that Pan-Am queue to find that he was to be offered a late place on the Qantas flight.

He knew nothing of the Pan-Am disaster until 2 days later and even then, it was a month later on his return to the UK when he checked the flight times etc. that the Pan-Am flight 103 which was bombed, was the one he would have been on if not paged. He has often wondered if any of those that he stood alongside in that ticket queue were booking the same flight..
There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
 
PanAm747
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:10 am

He got horrifyingly close.

I have always kept good records of the planes I have flown on, but I did not start recording registry numbers until about ten years ago. I will always wonder in my mind if one of the United Or American 757's or TWA 747's or UA DC-10's I have flown on later came to grief.

I'm sure we all have wondered that.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
UAL747
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:16 am

I used to fly AA 946/947 to and from college in Boston all the time. It was a 767-200. Chances are that one of the times I went home it might have been the ill-fated flight that flew into the WTC.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
YLWbased
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:34 am

i have two of those stories

1) i was booked on Dragonair (KA) flights from HKG-HKT on Dec.23, 2004, but for some tech reason, my flight was cancelled and i was given a refund since the next aviliable flight is 2 days later. The next day when i turn on the TV after i got back from supper, i saw a cam shot towards the hotel that i suppose to stay in (Holiday Inn) was completely washed out by tsunami...... If i was on that flight, i'm probly dead.........

2) I think lots of ppl here would recall this incident - China Airlines CI611.

i was booked on that flight on May25th, 2005, 4days after my birthday. Planed to return from taiwan to hong kong after my bday trip TPE-HKG. due to terrible traffic condition @ taipei at the time, i was too late for the flight, the check-in counter wouldn't issue me a boarding pass. I was then rearrage to another flight which will be departed 1.5hr later. The other day when I read the news paper, i saw the flight that i'm suppose to be on - CI-611 was crashed into the ocean with no one survive. if i made it on time to the airport, i will be one of those 225 poor soul....
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
 
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LH463
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:41 am

The first airplane in my logbook, N4512Q, which I flew at a summer camp at Culver, Indiana in 01 crashed in the summer of 05 during the same camp. It was taking off and apparently experienced engine trouble which resulted in a ditch attempt in a near by lake. The instructor and student were both killed and the investigation is still not complete. May both of them rest in piece.


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kl5147
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:19 am

I flew from JFK to LHR on 29-09-1979, flight PA 102. The a/c was PanAm Boeing 747-121 N738PA. This a/c was damaged beyond repair (W/O) on August 4, 1983 after hard a landing in Karachi, Pakistan.

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USAFokie
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:37 am

Similar story from a family friend.

A family friend worked at the Pentagon for a few years. Back in 2001, he had a couple weeks of extra leave that were going to expire at the end of the year, so he would take a day or two off every couple weeks or so to use up the leave. One of the days he took off was September 11. His office was entirely destroyed in the attack.

These stories are interesting, but I feel that it's a little pointless to dwell on them too much. I mean, there's no way to know that if someone had done something else, that ____ would have still happened, if you catch my drift.
 
spartanmjf
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:59 am

In the Spring of 1987 I led a group of high school students to Europe over the Easter vacation. We have a photograph of ourselves standing in front of windows at FRA, and the name of our aircraft - the doomed PA jet - Clipper Maid of the Seas - is clearly visible.
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
piercey
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:15 am

My mom has a similar story as well.

On May 25, 1979, my mom was working a shift at a bar near ORD. An upset man walks in and asks for the phone. She points to where it is and he makes a few calls. Guy comes back to the counter, sobbing. Mom asks what's wrong. He goes on to say he was late for a flight. Turns out the flight he was late for was AA191. 'nuff said.
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:11 am

Well, nothing as dangerous, but in early 2002, I flew DL55 ATL-NRT on Ship 803DE, before connecting to a UA flight to ICN. About 2 weeks later, she went mudding while trying to land in a 55 knot crosswind in SNN(or DUB). Significant damage to the belly and engine.




And I returned from that NRT trip 10 days late on Ship 802DE. A couple years later, she catches fire during engine run-up in ATL and recieves very significant damage, needing Boeing to come out and repair her. Until then, she sits as an expensive paper-weight in the north corner of DL TechOps in ATL.




Seems every airplane I fly on is later damaged.  ashamed 



OttoPylit
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MSYtristar
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:12 am

Otto, wow, 802 is still out there? Sure sad to see such a great bird wait and wait and wait...
 
WesternA318
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:17 pm

Well, I was on N93119 on the way back from ATH the day she left for her final voyage...as well as a few others... Sad
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
lordanmol
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:28 pm

Ive got a similar story my friends father told me after realizing how much I like aviation.

He was booked on board the ill fated plane Kanishka. As the flight was overbooked he decided to come earlier than normal and still they told him that you will be offloaded and will put you on a later Air Canada flight. He was hella angry and complained alot of times, but to no avail.

Once he arrived in London he realized Kanishka was no more and all the people on board are presumed dead.

Sadly his mother had no idea that he was offloaded as neither of them had a mobile nor did he have some money he could use in England to tell that he was safe.

So he made his way to Mumbai knowing that his mother probably thinks that he is dead.

His mother recieved a huge shock when he suddenly turned up in his home as all of them thought that he was one of the dead passengers onboard Kanishka.

Regards
Hmmmmm....
 
bhmbaglock
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:40 pm

I had a friend, now dead, who only missed 103 by having a near fatal accident in Saudi Arabia days before the flight. Here's a link to more info on this and other close calls that earned him the nickname of "Dead Man".

http://home.triad.rr.com/bmorrell/steve/closecalls.html

and a bit more

http://home.triad.rr.com/bmorrell/steve/stevestories.html

My close calls w/ AC

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001211X14468&key=1

Several flights in N141PV about 3 weeks before this incident that killed a friend and several others I didn't know as well.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X24193&key=1

I was one of the passengers on this one! btw the NTSB report has little that is correct in it.
Where are all of my respected members going?
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting Lh463 (Reply 4):
The first airplane in my logbook, N4512Q, which I flew at a summer camp at Culver, Indiana in 01 crashed in the summer of 05 during the same camp. It was taking off and apparently experienced engine trouble which resulted in a ditch attempt in a near by lake. The instructor and student were both killed and the investigation is still not complete. May both of them rest in piece.

Was that done by a christian organisation? A fellow college student in Michigan who I roomed with was friends with another flight schooling guy that crashed in Lake Michigan and parished with his instructor.

My dads co-wokers daughter was in New York during the 9/11 attacks. She was suppost to be on one of the UA flights to SFO. She canciled the flight and re-booked for the next day so she could see the World Trade Center. She was at the World Trade Center when her flight went right into the towers. She was under the Manzaneen or whatever it is called when it hit. She survived by running out. Thank you Lord!
Don't Tread On Me!
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:04 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 10):
Otto, wow, 802 is still out there? Sure sad to see such a great bird wait and wait and wait...

No, she finally left last fall. Boeing came out, fixed her up, and then she was on her way to YUL. Which is odd, because last time I saw her up close last spring, she looked fit to scrap, removed engines and everything.



OttoPylit
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
cxsjr
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:32 pm

Back in 1997, I was lucky enough to cross the Atlantic on this beautiful bird ....


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Four years later ....



Hardly a close call but it still gets you thinking when you hear the news

 Sad
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
rams777
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:24 pm

This reminds me of the film FINAL DESTINATION.
 
kaitak
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:24 pm

I only ever flew TWA once, in July 1989, from BOS to JFK. The aircraft was N93119 ... which was later lost as TW 800.

That Delta MD11 which had an accident at Dublin was the subject of an investigation by the Irish AAIU (Air Accident Investigations Unit); it was ruled that the gust which resulted in the plane going off-piste was not something the crew could have done anything about. It was the captain's last trip before retirement (presumably the return trip would have been his last), so I was glad he was cleared of blame, although it was sad that his last flight had to end like that.
 
SmithAir747
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:55 pm

I always wonder if one of the TWA 747s I took on a round trip to Spain was the one lost in TWA 800...

In 1994, I took a big trip to Spain on TWA (IND-JFK-MAD return) as a high school graduation gift; the JFK-MAD and MAD-JFK legs were flown on TWA 747s. This was my only 747 trip in my life.

Although I never saw the registration on either TWA 747, I wonder just if one of them was the ill-fated N93119.

How would I be able to track the registration of my TWA 747s (JFK-MAD & MAD-JFK legs) on that trip in 1994?

SmithAir747
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
 
pawsleykat
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:06 pm

Quoting Rams777 (Reply 17):
This reminds me of the film FINAL DESTINATION.

I was just thinking the same thing.

JG
First Class passengers are my favourites. They can't get any further forward without an ATPL.
 
ContinentalEWR
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:18 pm

I flew LAX-JFK on United Airlines in August 2001, three weeks prior to the 9/11 attacks. The plane was a 767-200. It was the same aircraft that would operate UA 175 on the morning of 9/11.

ContinentalEWR
 
A340600
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:30 pm

Quoting Cxsjr (Reply 16):
Back in 1997, I was lucky enough to cross the Atlantic on this beautiful bird ....

Does anyone else remember that story from the AF crash? Apparently there were two families trying to check-in and only room for one. They had to toss a coin, the "unlucky" family would end up on the normal jet to New York and so thought they'd be slower but in fact the others never even left Paris...

All very wierd, proves IMO there's such a thing as fate
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
rams777
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:35 pm

I remember when the Swiss MD-11 crashed. Marc Rosset (Swiss Pro Tennis Player) was beat in either the 1st or 2nd round of the U.S Open in New York. He booked to fly back home on that fatal flight but decided to have an extra day shopping in NY.. Chilling Thought
 
united
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:48 pm

Quoting SmithAir747 (Reply 19):
How would I be able to track the registration of my TWA 747s (JFK-MAD & MAD-JFK legs) on that trip in 1994?

There is a website that lists all departures, arrivals, diversions, etc., but I don't know whether it is only US domestic or also international. anyway, here it is:

http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_...rmation/airline_ontime_statistics/
The opinions expressed here are mine and not necessarily those of Delta Air Lines.
 
baguy
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:51 pm

This really wasn't very dangerous but it just shows how easily people get scared onboard aircraft, one of my friends was on a BA LHR-MLA flight on 9/11 the captain came over the tannoy and explained what had happened in NY (I think this was a bad move) and some passengers thought that there were terroists onboard and they were going to be hijacked too! Ironicaly his birthday is 9/11!
 
futureualpilot
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:07 pm

The very first aircraft I flew for mny PPL, a Cessna 152, N24961 was w/o after an instructor and student spun into the ground at an airport I frequent when I am home. I know it wasnt a close call, but it was spooky seeing the pictures of the crash.
Life is better when you surf.
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:44 am

I was waiting for Alaska 261 to Seattle and was waiting at SFO.

After an announcement telling us the flight was canceled, the AS desk at SFO was closed, we were told to return to main check in and find an alternate flight.

At the same time a number of security people came and announced anyone awaiting passengers from AS261 to goto a security room just up the concourse.

When I went to the main desk, staff put up a sign banning anyone without a ticket from going through security, I saw a security guard escorting a latino women who was crying loudly into a room, and the female AS checkin woman crying and leave her desk.

The board said for Flight 261 baggage reclaim to "See Agent".

I left a few hours later booked on United. The atmosphere at SFO was silent.
At the time I didnt quite know the truth (The TV's were turned off) but everyone figured something was wrong and the silence was so loud. A few TV vans had pulled up outside on the drop off area but security werent letting them to the gate (pre-9-11 going to the gate to meet people was ok)

Only when I arrived in Seattle that evening did I know what actually happened in detail.

I still have my flight print out information when I booked the ticket.

Since then I have flown over 500k miles.. but this is one day Ive never forgotten.

No one said there had been a crash or even an incident, and it was only what you saw that you realised something was going on but as everything was very low key and subtle you wondered but didnt know, but you were not panicked as no one else was and no one was giving indications that all was wrong. It was only when I got to seattle and saw the news that the dots were all joined together.

I remember arguing that I wanted to take the later AS flight not the UA flight but the SFO staff (not AS staff) were rebooking and said that it was most likely the later AS flight would be canceled too (without giving reason) and were abrupt at finding everyone (only about 30 odd of us) onto the next flight out of SFO as soon as possible..about 30 minutes after the AS flight, I waited with my girlfriend and went on a later flight.

[Edited 2006-04-14 17:53:17]
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:01 am

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 11):
Well, I was on N93119 on the way back from ATH the day she left for her final voyage...as well as a few others...

I was on this flight, as I stated in the "ATH Spotters" thread.

I was also on HB-IWC, the ill-fated Swissair MD-11 that went down as SR111 in 1998.

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
 
studentflyer
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:27 am

I was on SQ's 9V-SPK on June 28, 2000, SYD-SIN. That beautiful-liveried plane, as we all know, was the one w/o at TPE, October 31, 2000. I was seated at 35E if I wasn't mistaken.

I also have a friend who was supposedly be flying MI 185 CGK-SIN which crashed in Palembang, Indonesia on 19th Dec 1997. Somehow he was late to the airport, and booked in with QF41 instead.. He was with his mum and his brother, which that day was also his mum and brother's birthday... sends the chill down my spine even hearing that story!!
 
4holer
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:17 am

I was on USAir 427 a short time before the accident in PIT.
I don't keep track of registrations so I don't know if it was the same 737.
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
IFEMaster
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:22 am

A friend of mine is a Lt. Col. and spends a lot of time at the Pentagon. He was in his office there the morning of September 11th when the plane hit (he took photographs of his office with all the pictures blown off the wall by the schockwaves etc. His office was a mere 193 feet from the edge of the destroyed wing.

The chilling part is that he had moved his office to a different room the Friday before as part of a reorganization. That reorganization had taken place a week earlier than scheduled. His previous office was completely wiped out when the plane hit. By the schedule, he would have died that day.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
GDB
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:37 am

John Lydon ('Johnny Rotten' of the Sex Pistols), was booked on PA103, but his wife took too much time packing, they had a row, missing the flight.
 
warren747sp
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:43 am

It may not be a good idea to rent the video for Final Destination then.
Sooner or later It will get U.
747SP
 
keego
Posts: 187
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:49 am

A few years ago I was in JFK flying home to DUB, I cant remember the flight number I think it might have been EI106 but how and ever, we were delayed thet night as was the flight beside us at the gate Egyptair 990. I found out the next morning what had happened when we arrived at SNN on the way to DUB. I remember the passebgers all waiting to board and all the children running around and thier mothers trying to keep them quiet as it was rather late at night. They would never see daylight again. Its strange how you remember things, if the plane had'nt crashed I would probebly have never remembered them. RIP.
 
efcar98
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 1:57 am

RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 28):
I was also on HB-IWC, the ill-fated Swissair MD-11 that went down as SR111 in 1998.

not to be a prick, but it was HB-IWF
 
Mainliner
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:55 am

Quoting NEMA (Thread starter):
The first airplane in my logbook, N4512Q, which I flew at a summer camp at Culver, Indiana in 01 crashed in the summer of 05 during the same camp. It was taking off and apparently experienced engine trouble which resulted in a ditch attempt in a near by lake. The instructor and student were both killed and the investigation is still not complete. May both of them rest in piece.

This one hits home with me, as the instructor was a Purdue student. I didn't know him personally, but a lot of my friends did. Very sad news to start off the new school year.  Sad Rest in peace.
Every flight counts.
 
warren747sp
Posts: 980
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RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:19 am

I was fortunate enough to be on the following plane while it was still flying faithfully.
Pan Am 741
China Air 742
China Air A300-600
Mandarin Air MD-11
China Air 744 into Hong Kong Harbour
China Air 747SP which almost dove into the Pacific
W
747SP
 
ANITIX87
Posts: 2953
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Pan Am Flight 103 A Chilling Thought

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting EFCar98 (Reply 35):
not to be a prick, but it was HB-IWF

Thanks for correcting me. I was on HB-IWF, the doomed airframe, not HB-IWC. I had it right in the last thread I told the story in, haha.

TIS
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