SInGAPORE_AIR
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Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:15 am

Virgin Atlantic is making an "adjustment" to baggage allowances.

Arguably the most notable thing is:

-----
PREMIUM ECONOMY & ECONOMY BAGGAGE ALLOWANCES BY PIECE

On Transatlantic, Caribbean and Nigerian routes we operate a piece system of allowance for checked in baggage.

Premium Economy: Two pieces of luggage per passenger, each weighing up to 32kg (70lbs). When added together, the three dimensions of any piece of luggage must not exceed 158cm (62in).

Economy: Two pieces of luggage per passenger, each weighing up to 23kg (51lbs). When added together, the three dimensions of any piece of luggage must not exceed 158cm (62in).
-----

I think they are following in the footsteps of NWA, Emirates (from JFK) and Air Canada among others.

I suppose this has more to do with fuel then anything else.

Virgin Atlantic is 49% owned by Singapore Airlines Limited.

Source: Virgin Atlantic
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kappel
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:36 am

What was the previous allowed baggage? I think 2 pieces is still pretty good, especially on caribbean flights, which is most likely leisure travel.
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SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:47 am

Previously it was 2 pieces, each weighing up to 32kg = 64 kg in total.
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ammunition
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:29 am

slightly off topic, but why is the transatlantic baggage allowance usually higher than the for example, uk-asia?
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aerorobnz
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:34 am

Good. Nobody needs to travel with 64kg anyway. It's good they are cutting down on allowances like everyone elseto keep things consistent. Personally I would prefer when we all have the 1 piece at 23kg allowance.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Nimish
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:32 pm

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 4):
Nobody needs to travel with 64kg anyway. It's good they are cutting down on allowances like everyone elseto keep things consistent. Personally I would prefer when we all have the 1 piece at 23kg allowance.

Hardly true. I'd like to see you manage with 1 23KG bag when you have to travel for a 3 month assignment to another country. You need a full set of clothes, shoes, jackets etc., besides anything specific like eatables. On the way back, hopefully you have some shopping as well.

Your point is valid for a 2 day business trip from NYC-SFO return (same country/culture etc.). But not when travelling for a longer assignment across borders.
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soups
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:55 pm

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 4):
Good. Nobody needs to travel with 64kg anyway

Come on! looking at your country flag i doubted to see this answer. West/east africa lfights are full with bags, especially those from Dubai, USA and Europe.
if u have 2 empty suitcases that about 10kilos on their own
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Vasu
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:26 pm

Good to see some clamping down!

I await the day most airlines start to clamp down on the size of people's hand luggage!
 
HS748
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:27 pm

Quoting Soups (Reply 6):
if u have 2 empty suitcases that about 10kilos on their own

Only if the'yre made of concrete!
 
Nimish
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:29 pm

Quoting HS748 (Reply 8):
Only if the'yre made of concrete!

I take it you've never weighed empty 28" or 32" bags. (I'm talking about hardback suitcases here - the mid-priced ones).
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copper1
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:06 pm

I agree with airlines clamping down but agree more with VASU and eagarly await the airlines clamping down on carry on luggage. With airline restrictions on checked baggage increasing, I suspect bigger and more dangerously, heavier carry ons as people try to avoid too much/heavy checked bags. Very little about flying upsets me more than that "special" traveller who thinks the carry on rules should be applied to everyone but themselves and they cry bloody murder as they try to carry on bags bigger than most 5 year old kids.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:41 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 5):
I'd like to see you manage with 1 23KG bag when you have to travel for a 3 month assignment to another country.

I have. I survived comfortably coming back from a year in England with that allowance, and and it is very easy to survive on 14-15kg for a month - have done that on 3 other continents so far. I just don't travel with all the unnecessary stuff. It's not hard, people just take that much because they can.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 5):
You need a full set of clothes, shoes, jackets etc., besides anything specific like eatables. On the way back, hopefully you have some shopping as well.


Why would I take food with me??I just buy what I need when I need it at my destination - same with clothes. If I can't afford to buy clothes then I stick to a core set of clothes. Backpacking is the best way to learn to pack lightly, cos then you reap the benefits by not having a heavy bag on your back.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 9):
(I'm talking about hardback suitcases here - the mid-priced ones).

The same ones that are always warped by the mechanical arm on the luggage belts you mean?? Hard cases do nothing except restrict how much you can take inside. Time and again I see the hard samsonites getting destroyed after one use.

Quoting Copper1 (Reply 10):
Very little about flying upsets me more than that "special" traveller who thinks the carry on rules should be applied to everyone but themselves and they cry bloody murder as they try to carry on bags bigger than most 5 year old kids.

agreed. That's why I love stopping people at the gate and telling them they'll have to gatecheck or relenquish it.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
kappel
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 11):
Time and again I see the hard samsonites getting destroyed after one use.

I've had mine for over ten years, still perfect. However I do agree that the newer ones seem to be less durable. And they do protect your stuff much better. Unless you only pack clothes of course, but when on holiday i also do some shopping, and not only for clothes.
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cainanuk
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:09 am

Quoting Ammunition (Reply 3):
slightly off topic, but why is the transatlantic baggage allowance usually higher than the for example, uk-asia?

Basically, the world has been divided into two areas, A and B, by IATA. Picture a flattened map of the world. North and South America is Area A and the rest of the world is area B. Baggage allowance From B to A is 2 pieces up to 32 kilos (maximum) or 23 kilos (minimum) each. Carriers can be generous (like BD) and allow the full monty or can go as low as the minimum. So either transatlantic or trans pacific, you follow the pieces concept. Flights within an area (ie A to A or B to B - or UK-Asia as you asked) follow the weight rule which is as follows (max set up by IATA) F class 40kg, C 30kg and Y 20kg. The amount of bags that it takes to get up to your allowed weight is irrelevant, just the weight limits apply.

So for example, Area A to B flights such as LHR-ORD, or B to A such as BKK-SFO equals pieces. LHR-SYD, even though much further in distance, is still all within Area B so the weight rule applies.

I know this because I am going through my CSA course with BD at the moment and we spent 2 days last week on this subject alone. Hope that helps.
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LHR777
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:15 am

Quoting Cainanuk (Reply 13):
Baggage allowance From B to A is 2 pieces up to 32 kilos (maximum) or 23 kilos (minimum) each. Carriers can be generous (like BD) and allow the full monty or can go as low as the minimum.

23 kilos minimum? So I have to take at least 23kg of crap with me when I fly on BD? That's nuts!  Wink

Also, the Area A, Area B thing doesn't always apply. I know BD don't fly there, but LHR to LOS/ABV/PHC is all area B, but the 2-piece allowance applies.

FYI, BA is also switching to 23kg max per piece across the board sometime during the summer. This includes First Class and Club World.
 
cainanuk
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:23 am

I meant to say that 23 kilos is what the airlines have to AT LEAST allow passengers. Hope that makes sense.
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sllevin
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:10 am

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 11):
I have. I survived comfortably coming back from a year in England with that allowance

And clearly you don't travel with women.  Smile I swear my wife's toiletries are 23kg!

Steve
 
behramjee
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:25 am

Virgin Atlantic shouldnt have implemented this policy until BA did so because as a result of this they will suffer big time on key "baggage oriented routes" such as from North America via LHR to Nigeria and India especially.

Nigerians and Indians travel with bulky heavy suitcases and they will not appreciate this 18KG of less weight i.e. 32-23 : 9 less KG per suitcase.

If BA offers good fares then passengers will gladly hop on board BAs flights from these 2 regions and not pay excess baggage fines.

BA and Air India should take full advantage of their baggage allowance policies by marketing it to the masses thus resulting in them getting more pax on their North America-India bound flights compared to LH-AF-KL-OS-AC-EK-VS who all offer 23KG allowance per suitcase only.
 
kdm
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:09 am

I flew to NZ by myself with 15kg's and returned by myself but carrying my wife's extra baggage that she did not need whilst she stayed in NZ for a bit longer and had 48kg!

Luckily the airline did not charge me extra due to my FF status but the woman checking in next to me was in the process of being charged $1000NZ for her 1 large suitcase and 1 quite full back pack. She was not happy, but then the ticket does say 20kg. Don't know what the outcome was but their was a bit of shouting going on.
 
N754PR
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:08 pm

VS are famous for being very tight about their luggage and not letting you get away with ANYTHING over the limit. This along with their crap Y class seats is a reason I will not fly them.
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rdwootty
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:25 pm

It always amazes me that the US has such a grand allowance. The general allowance is 20kgs for Y pax and I have never understood why the US/Carib should be different.You US people should try some airlines that allow 15kgs or even charge per bag an ecess on all baggage checked in.. I do agree aout the carry on in the US it should be stopped and only 5 kgs allowed that would shake you all up!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 11):
I have. I survived comfortably coming back from a year in England with that allowance, and and it is very easy to survive on 14-15kg for a month - have done that on 3 other continents so far. I just don't travel with all the unnecessary stuff. It's not hard, people just take that much because they can.

Sorry, but you are full of crap.

First, if you happen to be tall and/or traveling to a cold place, your clothes will be much heavier than a short person going to the caribbean.

But beyond that, you assume nobody needs to bring ANYTHING but clothes with them on trips. Business people often need to bring documents, samples, equipment/cables etc. that take up space and weight.

I would like to see the allowances for econ be EITHER:

2 x 23kg
or
1 x 32kg
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Simong
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:23 pm

One point that seems to be missed here is that many of the airlines are cutting back on the allowances to decrease the amount of employee injuries.
32 KGS is just too much for staff to haul around ! With new security measures bags are handled by far more people through far more channels. I can't count how many times I have seen passengers completely unable to lift their own bags onto the check in counter scale ..... but expect the agents to jump out and do it for them and complain if we don't !
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N1120A
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:58 pm

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 11):
Backpacking is the best way to learn to pack lightly, cos then you reap the benefits by not having a heavy bag on your back.

There comes a point in life were you have to get over backpacking. Sure, I have survived (pre-9/11) in Europe for a month on 2 carry-ons before, that doesn't mean I would do that now. Also, if you ever had to travel with suits, sweaters, shoes for different things (I am not going to wear desert boots to the gym and I am not going to wear sneakers when in a suit), jeans (they are not light, etc. you know that the weight is going to add up really quickly. All this doesn't even factor in the fact that the bag itself is already eating up some of your allowance.
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sevenheavy
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:26 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 17):
Virgin Atlantic shouldnt have implemented this policy until BA did so because as a result of this they will suffer big time on key "baggage oriented routes" such as from North America via LHR to Nigeria and India especially.

The "baggage orientated routes" are actually the routes to HKG, PVG, NRT, JNB, CPT. These routes are actually getting a slight increase in allowance. Routes to North America rarely cause any issue. LOS could certainly be classed as "baggage orientated", however the difference here is that the Nigerians rarely have any trouble paying for their excess if required, as the cost is relatively low compared to far eastern destonations.

Quoting N754PR (Reply 19):
VS are famous for being very tight about their luggage and not letting you get away with ANYTHING over the limit. This along with their crap Y class seats is a reason I will not fly them.

Fair enough. However it never ceases to amaze me how, despite having an easy to read limit noted on your ticket, as well as information given by reservations and on the internet, airline staff are always treated incredulously (and quite often abusively) when informing passengers that they have over their baggage allowance. In almost every case it is always everyone elses fault but the passenger who has the excess!

The bottom line is that if you turn up with excess luggage then you should be prepared to pay for it, instead of blaming the airline for being strict. The airline industry seems to be a prime target for the "something for nothing" brigade who don't actually want to pay extra for anything and then blame the airline when they don't get it for free. Its like booking a single room at a hotel, turning up with 10 family members and telling the hotel you need an extra three rooms for free to accomodate them!. (an extreme example I know, but the principle is the same).

Rant over  Wink

p.s. I agree about the VS economy seats but the new ones just fitted to G-VWIN are superb. They allow an extra 2 inches of legroom and have lumbar support and a superb adjustable headreast.

Regards
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
N1120A
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:41 pm

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 24):

The VS checked bag rules are not entirely awful, or even out of the norm these days, but I do have a serious issue with their carry on rules. 6 kilos?!?!?!?! Not only do they have an absolutely ridiculous weight allowance for carryons (my backpack with my laptop already weighs about 4 kilos), but some CSA is there at the gate to pick the thing up and rant at you about how an FA could get injured picking it up or something. Ridiculous

Rant over.
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ikramerica
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:44 pm

Quoting Simong (Reply 22):
32 KGS is just too much for staff to haul around !

While I agree 70 lbs is heavy, if it's so detrimental, why don't they bad 51+ pound bags altogether, rather than allowing 50-70lbs for F, J and Y+ and charging extra for Y?

In other words, if it was about your welfare, they would ban them, not just see them as a premium.

It's about money. Heavy bags cost fuel, so why allow the discount pax to use the most fuel? I think it's a good policy, actually, though I would like the amendment as I said, so that you could have one larger bag or two smaller ones.

I've had a 60 lb bag to NRT before, just carrying 1 weeks of clothes. At 6'3, all of my clothes are heavier, my shoes weigh a lot more, etc. Luckily I was in F, so they allowed it.
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Lufthansa747
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:42 pm

Quoting Simong (Reply 22):
One point that seems to be missed here is that many of the airlines are cutting back on the allowances to decrease the amount of employee injuries.
32 KGS is just too much for staff to haul around !

This has nothing to do with the VS rules.

Even with worldwide 20K rule, maximum bag weight is usually 32kg, whether you pay for the access, travel in a group with multiple 20K allowances, have FF status or whatever.
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LHR777
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:53 pm

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 17):
If BA offers good fares then passengers will gladly hop on board BAs flights from these 2 regions and not pay excess baggage fines.

BA and Air India should take full advantage of their baggage allowance policies by marketing it to the masses thus resulting in them getting more pax on their North America-India bound flights compared to LH-AF-KL-OS-AC-EK-VS who all offer 23KG allowance per suitcase only.

Nice idea, unfortunately it makes no sense for BA to do this, when we're reducing our baggage allowance in 2 months time. What's the point of marketing something for 2 months, then pissing-off those very same people when we subsequently reduce the allowance?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
The VS checked bag rules are not entirely awful, or even out of the norm these days, but I do have a serious issue with their carry on rules. 6 kilos?!?!?!?!

Well, the reason for this was primarily health and safety - crew were often 'expected' by passengers to lift carry-on bags into the overhead. Why should a crew member hurt themselves lifting your over-stuffed over-weight carry-on?

However, I don't know about VS, but when BA changes their checked-baggage allowance to max bag weight of 23kg, it is proposed that the carry-on allowance of 6kg will also be abolished, to be replaced by a size limit (baggage sizers will be used) with a max bag weight of 23kg. Now, this is quite a generous increase, however, as part of this agreement, crew will no longer be required to lift your bags. This will basically mean, if you can't lift it, it goes in the hold. Simple as that. Also, from BA's conditions of carriage -

Quote:
From BA Condtions of Carriage -
"If your hand baggage is larger than the maximum dimensions or weight, does not fit under the seat in front of you or in an enclosed compartment, or we decide it is not safe you must check it in as checked baggage."

I think the bottom line here is this - if there's no room, don't expect us to store your bags in closets, cockpit or anywhere else. it will go in the hold.

Personally, I also expect the new carry-on limits to cause problems on the narrowbody Airbus fleet, particularly the A319 or high M-class configured A321 with over 180 passengers onboard.

Quoting Simong (Reply 22):
One point that seems to be missed here is that many of the airlines are cutting back on the allowances to decrease the amount of employee injuries.

This is actually the key reason for the policy change. A worryingly high number of back injuries occur due to baggage boys and girls having to lift overly-heavy baggage. At BA, for example, we experienced over 400 back injuries to our baggage staff last year, and this obviously generates manpower issues, hundreds of hours of lost man-hours and so on.
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:07 pm

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 28):
This is actually the key reason for the policy change. A worryingly high number of back injuries occur due to baggage boys and girls having to lift overly-heavy baggage.

If that's the case, I stand corrected. But within the past 6 months or so I recall reading various press realeases about reduced baggage allowance with the words "however, maximum single bag weight is still restricted to 32kgs" or something similar.
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LHR777
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:27 pm

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 29):
If that's the case, I stand corrected. But within the past 6 months or so I recall reading various press realeases about reduced baggage allowance with the words "however, maximum single bag weight is still restricted to 32kgs" or something similar.

Again, I don't know about VS, but BA is reducing the max bag weight to 23kg. We'll probably have a 2kg 'discretion', up to a total of 25kg. The UK Health and Safety Executive has determined that 25kg is the 'safe allowable lifting limit' and so we're using 23kg as the max (inline with our 23kg limit to non North/South American/Nigerian destinations), but we anticipate staff having a 2kg 'buffer'. Baggage belts will be re-configured to accept anything up to 25kg. Over this weight, the belts wont move.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:29 pm

Just to clarify this for those who don't seem to understand..

There are 2 systems... the "Piece" system and the "Weight" system. The Piece system allows you to have 2 pieces of checked luggage only.
The Weight system allows you 20kg economy(44lbs for the metricly impared) (30 kg business, 40kg 1stclass) of luggage but you may have several bags (most airlines still limit it to 3 - 5 bags however as there is a size limit).

At least a dozen major airlines have reduced their "Piece" allowances down from 32kgx2 (70lbsx2) to 23kgx2 (50lbsx2). AC, NZ, UA, LH, LA, VS, etc (I understand QF is currently reviewing changing theirs too). Most of these airlines made an agreement that passengers ticketed after 01 March 2006 will be subject to the new reduced allowances. Business Class for most airlines will remain at 32kgx2.

One other fact overlooked is that with the Piece system a passenger can still have 1 heavy 32kg bag so long as the other bag reduces to 14kg. ie the limit is 2 bags still with a total weight up up to 46kg. No bag may be heavier than 32kg. I don't know of any airline (and it is an IATA rule) that luggage may not be heavier than 32kg (70lbs).

Apart from the USA and Canada I have found that most airlines stick to the IATA guidelines and enforce the 7kg (15lbs) carry-on luggage allowance. Down here in New Zealand I know we are quite strict on this, not just NZ but also other airlines operating here (QF, MH, DJ etc).

As for the injuries argument... yes having lower weight bags will help, but it is more about saving money fuel wise.
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Lufthansa747
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:35 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 31):
One other fact overlooked is that with the Piece system a passenger can still have 1 heavy 32kg bag so long as the other bag reduces to 14kg. ie the limit is 2 bags still with a total weight up up to 46kg. No bag may be heavier than 32kg. I don't know of any airline (and it is an IATA rule) that luggage may not be heavier than 32kg (70lbs).

That's how I have always understood it but according to LHR777, BA is changing that to 23kg max.
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bond007
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:39 pm

Quoting Nimish (Reply 5):
Hardly true. I'd like to see you manage with 1 23KG bag when you have to travel for a 3 month assignment to another country.

Agreed, but then you're not the average passenger. Let your company pay the excess.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 21):
Business people often need to bring documents, samples, equipment/cables etc. that take up space and weight.

Then that's freight/cargo, and if it means going over your allowance, then you pay extra for the convenience of having your equipment/cables in your luggage.

I don't see much mention of excess charges. Presumably you can take as much as you like...as long as you pay over the allowance.


Jimbo
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Zkpilot
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:40 pm

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 32):

That's how I have always understood it but according to LHR777, BA is changing that to 23kg max.

BA would be one of the odd ones out then.
I've seen passengers repacking 40kg bags!! Its funny because they can't lift them by themselves so I don't get how on earth they think anyone else is going to do it for them!  banghead 
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GVWOW
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:11 pm

When I went on VS a while ago (with a 60lb. checked suitcase), the agent noticed that I collected stickers from old trips on my bag (which I do). She then asked "Would you like some extra stickers on this" and I said alright... But much to my horror, she grabbed a strip of overweight stickers and plastered the bag with them!
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 23):
There comes a point in life were you have to get over backpacking.

That's right, but if you learn it in the beginning you don't forget it in later life when packing suitcases. Well I did anyway.

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 33):
Agreed, but then you're not the average passenger. Let your company pay the excess.

Quite. Biz Travellers just put it on the company credit card. Companies know & expect to pay for excess. The other option is to pay for Business or First for companies. Business traveller also generally get more allowance as Gold/Platinums...

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 33):
I don't see much mention of excess charges. Presumably you can take as much as you like...as long as you pay over the allowance.

Just about. the limit is far higher than most would contemplate but it is there.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 21):
Sorry, but you are full of crap.

First, if you happen to be tall and/or traveling to a cold place, your clothes will be much heavier than a short person going to the caribbean.


I assure you I am not full of crap on this issue. I deal with hundreds of passengers a day, I see what everyone brings, and it astounds me how much dead weight people pack before their essentials. On my next trip I will be visiting both Key West and Fairbanks/Barrow yet I do not expect to pack more than 23kg in one bag. The baggage allowance was intended for personal items, and anything bulky to be either paid for as excess, or sent as cargo. I charge people daily that pay excess that is worth 10x the value to the extra weight of chocolate/a few t shirts/toiletries.

Once the plane is fully loaded with cargo (ie: pallets loaded before bags )it effectively costs 1litre/kilo of AvGas1 for every kilo loaded. (a very experienced load controller told me)That is why excess is charged. That is why airlines are restricting the allowance, so they don't have to pay for fuel to transport the extra weight, especially if it is only for a few extra clothes (low cost/low density revenue) rather than high profit export cargo.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 28):
Well, the reason for this was primarily health and safety - crew were often 'expected' by passengers to lift carry-on bags into the overhead. Why should a crew member hurt themselves lifting your over-stuffed over-weight carry-on?

However, I don't know about VS, but when BA changes their checked-baggage allowance to max bag weight of 23kg, it is proposed that the carry-on allowance of 6kg will also be abolished, to be replaced by a size limit (baggage sizers will be used) with a max bag weight of 23kg. Now, this is quite a generous increase, however, as part of this agreement, crew will no longer be required to lift your bags. This will basically mean, if you can't lift it, it goes in the hold. Simple as that. Also, from BA's conditions of carriage -

LHR777, not sure if you are aware or what your views are on this matter, but this issue is still on-going and from what I have heard, both cabin crew and ground staff unions have raised/are raising issues relating to the proposed changes to cabin baggage. Management stated that crew had been told and approved, yet many crew I spoke to had no idea about the proposal.

As it stands now, crew should not be lifting any bags other than their own, but often do this in an effort to assist passengers, especially those in wheelchairs or requiring some other form of assistance. On the ground it has been made clear that we are not in any way to lift bags for passengers. If they can not lift it, then it must be checked in. The proposed rule has already been subjected to change based on the daily 'input' from staff during the sessions that have been held and we are hoping for more changes to make it more manageable.

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 28):
I think the bottom line here is this - if there's no room, don't expect us to store your bags in closets, cockpit or anywhere else. it will go in the hold.

Personally, I also expect the new carry-on limits to cause problems on the narrowbody Airbus fleet, particularly the A319 or high M-class configured A321 with over 180 passengers onboard.

Again placing bags in closets, cockpits and galleys is often done to help speed departures and to assist passengers and is something that many of us think should have been stopped long ago. It makes passengers think that it will always be okay to take heavy /odd-shaped items as cabin luggage. Same for baby buggies....too often they are placed in closets where coats should be. I can understand a small buggy being allowed provided it fits overhead, but those large 3-wheeliers or having 5 buggies in a closet is a bit much.

As for the A32x series, it will be a nightmare, but one that management will have to take responsibility for if this new rule is not changed. We already suffer many delays down to excessive cabin baggage on these services and I fail to see how this new rule will help.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting Aerorobnz (Reply 36):
That's right, but if you learn it in the beginning you don't forget it in later life when packing suitcases. Well I did anyway.

Again, whether using a backpack or using a suitcase, packing that lightly is still the same.

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 28):
Well, the reason for this was primarily health and safety - crew were often 'expected' by passengers to lift carry-on bags into the overhead. Why should a crew member hurt themselves lifting your over-stuffed over-weight carry-on?

6 kilos is less than 1 stone (6 kilos = 13 pounds). That isn't a health and safety issue. An exit door weighs a hell of a lot more than 6 kilos, and if a crew member can't deal with that, they shouldn't be working on an airplane.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:07 am

Quoting AerorobNZ (Reply 11):
I have. I survived comfortably coming back from a year in England with that allowance,

This whole thread hada me interested, so I packed up what I would consider the minimum 3 month amount of clothing for a non-topical destination like, say, London.

I assumed I'd be doing laundry no less than once every two weeks. And I took a bare rotation of shirts for work that I wasn't showing up in the same clothing all the time. 4 sets of slacks, 3 sets of jeans, and three sets of shoes (two dress, on casual), 3 sweaters, and one good coat.

Total all up: 30kg including the low-rent American Tourister bag (which has served me me travelling the world). Does not include any laptops or things like cameras.

Going for a year on 23kg, unless you are wearing the same stuff all the time, or are buying lots of stuff to then abandon at your destination, simply isn't realistic.

Steve
 
747400F
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 28):
However, I don't know about VS, but when BA changes their checked-baggage allowance to max bag weight of 23kg, it is proposed that the carry-on allowance of 6kg will also be abolished, to be replaced by a size limit (baggage sizers will be used) with a max bag weight of 23kg.

Remind me never to travel BA if that is the case. Imagine 300 23 kg's "hand bags" flying through the cabin in turbulence!

Quoting GVWOW (Reply 35):
But much to my horror, she grabbed a strip of overweight stickers and plastered the bag with them!

Good for her!
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
Simong
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:42 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting Simong (Reply 22):
One point that seems to be missed here is that many of the airlines are cutting back on the allowances to decrease the amount of employee injuries.

Quoting LHR777
This is actually the key reason for the policy change. A worryingly high number of back injuries occur due to baggage boys and girls having to lift overly-heavy baggage. At BA, for example, we experienced over 400 back injuries to our baggage staff last year, and this obviously generates manpower issues, hundreds of hours of lost man-hours and so on.

Thank you LHR777 .... welcome to my *respected* list.... at least someone seems to agree with me ! I read somewhere recently that since AC reduced the individual bag allowance maximums that back injuries have fallen by 40+%. As a person who has just gone through a double spinal fusion, seeing some of the ridiculous sized pieces of baggage that people expect to check on to flights makes me shudder at times!
BA all the way !!!
 
Speedbird2155
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 7:44 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:59 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 38):
6 kilos is less than 1 stone (6 kilos = 13 pounds). That isn't a health and safety issue. An exit door weighs a hell of a lot more than 6 kilos, and if a crew member can't deal with that, they shouldn't be working on an airplane.

It is indeed a health and safety issue. Think of repeatedly trying to help passengers lift bags that often weigh more than they should under current allowances and how that affects someone's back and other body parts. Further think of the damage that can doen from these bags falling out of the bins.

Quoting 747400F (Reply 40):
Remind me never to travel BA if that is the case. Imagine 300 23 kg's "hand bags" flying through the cabin in turbulence!

As a BA employee I know this might sound bad, but I can't say I would blame you for not travelling with us. I hope you and many more decide to express your views to management on this issue as they don't seem intent on hearing what the staff have to say. 23kgs bags are a danger when placed over someone's head and it doesn't have to be turbulence, but merely another passenger opening a bin without care. Even now with a much smaller limit, there are cases when injuries occur as a result of such events.
 
A340600
Posts: 3893
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:24 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:21 am

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 24):
p.s. I agree about the VS economy seats but the new ones just fitted to G-VWIN are superb. They allow an extra 2 inches of legroom and have lumbar support and a superb adjustable headreast.

Is this Y or Y+?
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
copper1
Posts: 427
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 10:26 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:54 am

If the travelling public has to pay extra for overweight bags, where is the discount for underweight bags or no bags at all. I guarantee I would fly any airline that discounts my fare by the same per kilo charge that they charge for overweight bags. Afterall, if it is all about money and the extra cost of hauling my luggage...... Wink
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 3700
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:51 am

Quoting Copper1 (Reply 44):
If the travelling public has to pay extra for overweight bags, where is the discount for underweight bags or no bags at all. I guarantee I would fly any airline that discounts my fare by the same per kilo charge that they charge for overweight bags. Afterall, if it is all about money and the extra cost of hauling my luggage......

I hear that Ryan Air is looking at/doing this... cheaper airfares and charging for any luggage on certain ticket types.

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 42):
It is indeed a health and safety issue. Think of repeatedly trying to help passengers lift bags that often weigh more than they should under current allowances and how that affects someone's back and other body parts. Further think of the damage that can doen from these bags falling out of the bins.

Yes it is a health and safety issue for bags that weigh more than 7kg... if they weigh less than this and you are unable to lift it then maybe you should be in a different career...7kg is not a lot and it should not place any strain on your body, if it does then perhaps you need to start going to the gym to be fit or as I said find another career.

Quoting Sllevin (Reply 39):
This whole thread hada me interested, so I packed up what I would consider the minimum 3 month amount of clothing for a non-topical destination like, say, London.

I assumed I'd be doing laundry no less than once every two weeks. And I took a bare rotation of shirts for work that I wasn't showing up in the same clothing all the time. 4 sets of slacks, 3 sets of jeans, and three sets of shoes (two dress, on casual), 3 sweaters, and one good coat.

Total all up: 30kg including the low-rent American Tourister bag (which has served me me travelling the world). Does not include any laptops or things like cameras.

Going for a year on 23kg, unless you are wearing the same stuff all the time, or are buying lots of stuff to then abandon at your destination, simply isn't realistic.

Steve

Ok so your argument was that you would only wash your clothes once a fortnight... well for starters maybe you should look at once every 7-10 days. As for needing 7 pairs of trousers.... thats a bit of an overkill don't you think? especially for the jeans they can be worn for more than one day each. You do realise that they have these things called shops and other things called cash or credit cards which can be used to purchase clothes from the said stores??  sarcastic  If its for holiday then wear your clothes more than once, if its for business, well most hotels do have laundry services and if that is above your budget, most cities do have laundramats you can go to.  Smile
I did 6 weeks thru Europe and Canada with less than 20kg without wearing things over excessively at all, I actually started out with about 15kg but after doing some shopping and adding some bottles of Italian liquor well it crept up a bit.  drunk 
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 45):
You do realise that they have these things called shops and other things called cash or credit cards which can be used to purchase clothes from the said stores??

And not all people want to fork out for a new wardrobe when on a trip and even if they do, then they are over their weight limit.

Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 42):
It is indeed a health and safety issue. Think of repeatedly trying to help passengers lift bags that often weigh more than they should under current allowances and how that affects someone's back and other body parts. Further think of the damage that can doen from these bags falling out of the bins.

6 kilos is horsepuckey. Like I said, if you call that a "health and safety issue" then you can forget about opening aircraft doors
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 3700
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:52 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 46):
And not all people want to fork out for a new wardrobe when on a trip and even if they do, then they are over their weight limit.

Doesn't need to be a wardrobe or anything significant, just some of the cheaper items that take up weight perhaps... Towels, socks, underwear, shampoo, conditioner, that sort of stuff can be purchased while overseas if your luggage is on the heavy side (and saves having to clean it all too) compared to the price of a ticket, hotels etc etc those things are inexpensive.
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
kdm
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:15 pm

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:02 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 46):
6 kilos is horsepuckey. Like I said, if you call that a "health and safety issue" then you can forget about opening aircraft doors

I thought it was to prevent overloading of overhead lockers. I think that these are only "static tested" in that they are filled up to capacity and beyond to see when they collapse.

The big flaw in this as pointed at by the writer of "The Tombstone Imperative" is that it does not take in to account heavy bags in the overhead locker and severe turbulence which is one of the reasons things full out.

The less weight up there, the less to fall down.
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:30 am

RE: Virgin Atlantic Clamps Down On Baggage

Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:24 pm

Quoting A340600 (Reply 43):
Is this Y or Y+?

This is for economy.

The new premium seats are also being tested on a couple of A346 and will be rolled out across the fleet from June. The are also a great improvement and use the same leather as the UCS. The new seats also feature better recline, lumbar support and a few other bits and pieces.

Regards
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.

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