Iloveboeing
Topic Author
Posts: 339
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:02 am

DL Future Fleet Plans

Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:25 pm

I've been wondering what Delta is going to do about their future fleet, once their finances get cleared up. I know they've got a lot of MD-88s that need to be replaced. Could they order more 738s? Also, I think Delta should put winglets on its 738s, 752s, and 767s to save fuel. Do they have any plans to do this?

As with the 767 fleet, especially the oldest ones 767-300s (not the ERs), will Delta place a 787 order? If so, what version?

With interior changes, couldn't Delta move configure Economy with 32-inch pitch, minimum to provide the same comfort as Southwest? Shouldn't they also revamp BusinessElite and get lie-flat beds? I also think they need to put PTVs fleet-wide to compete with JetBlue.

Thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
flybaby
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:20 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Fri Apr 14, 2006 11:42 pm

I think DL will order the 788 and maybe a few 789s at some point and they'll slowly add IFE to many of the smaller jets.

If I am not mistaken, Delta still has some deliveries to take on the 738.

I got a letter in the mail from them recently saying that starting in April they have started a revamp of BusinessElite, something about better seating and "improvements" but I am not sure what this means in practice.
 
congaboy
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:48 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:19 am

Two schools of thought when you pose this:

1/ Replace/consolidate by removing and replacing the oldest, most expensive aircraft...that would be the 732's and the MD80's now. The tricky part is reviewing the capacity and applying it properly to the current and future market. So what do they choose to replace these? 736? E190/E195? A319/A320?
2/ Concentrate on making the international service better and more extensive...so that would be replacement of the oldest 767's with 787's.

Could they afford to do both concurrently?
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
flybaby
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:20 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:30 am

Well, doesn't Delta already have 50 738's on order and another 60 on option (and 168 rolling options)?

Even assuming that they don't excercise any of their options on the 738, the 50 738's could replace all of the 732 feet (currently 32 planes).
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:47 am

Its gonna be a long time until DL is in the position to order aircraft.....and any orders that do come will be for longhaul aircraft in connection with their international expansion, thus, 788s come to mind, but not until DL gets itself out of bankruptcy, has its costs under control, and has some type of business plan that will allow it to make money with $70/bbl oil. You are talking about billions and billions of dollar of new investment, DL at the moment is trying to figure out how to pay its bills.

The MD88s are quite young and are in no need of immediate replacement....DL cant even thing about new medium haul aircraft right now. The 763/764 fleet is also going nowhere for the time being

As for your other suggestions, BE is getting an update but no flat beds, DL will intergrate Song types features on longer main line flights, etc. It will take a while, dont forget that DL has huge financial problems to contend with and will so for years to come.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:58 am

DL does have 5 777 and several dozen 738s on order and has not accepted or rejected the Boeing agreement.

The MD80 lease rates have come down 75% and P&W is scared to death of losing any more narrowbody aircraft (since they do not build an engine for the 737NG and only partially so on the A320) so the MD80 is a very economical airplane. DL mgmt has said they would lease further MD80s if they can be found.

Because of all of the bankruptcies, lease rates for many fleet types are down and DL will use the low lease rates to pick up used airplanes if they can be brought into the fleet quickly and inexpensively. Because the 757 was always most popular w/ US airlines, I could see DL picking up used 757s esp. ETOPS birds because DL's 757s are not ETOPS qualified.

No US airline is going to purchase new generation widebodies for their domestic system. There are too many int'l route needs for any US airline and the domestic market is too unstable to invest in airplanes that are probably too big under the best situation.

I still contend that the A350 could easily makes it way into the DL fleet if Airbus is willing to price it low enough. While the A350 has been knocked alot, it still would more than serve DL's needs. If Airbus is willing to provide some transitional aircraft very inexpensively (like the A340-500 or even the A330-200) that would transition until the A350 arrives, they could well clinch DL as a customer.

If Airbus wins an A350 order from DL, the 777 fleet would probably be sold in time although DL might convert the remaining value of its order book to 777s which they could get in 18 months and then sell them when the A350s arrive, possibly w/ guaranteed buyback rates by Airbus.

Boeing's best chance of gaining an order that DL will keep is if they produce a new generation 100 seater. If Boeing can't deliver, then the EMB190 is likely. Supposedly the new pilot agreement has a rate for it.

The 757/767 fleet constitutes half of DL's fleet and will be around until well after 2015.

And DL has said they intend to obtain financing to support aircraft acquisitions as part of their exit bankruptcy strategy. DL plans to exit BK in approx. 1 year from now.

[Edited 2006-04-14 19:05:39]
 
N160LH
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:28 pm

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:18 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
ETOPS birds because DL's 757s are not ETOPS qualified.

They have 757 that are ETOPS rated (4 or 5 of them... I think ships 6901 - 6904)... And there 757s could be ETOPS rated they just arent...

N160LH
"I do alright up in the air, its down on the ground that I tend to mess up..."
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:22 am

I would think an order for 787's will come before too long, even if they are mostly leased. If such an order materializes, I think they might also order some 787-10's. Having those planes instead of the 777-200ER's would be far more effecient, if they were to order 787-8's and 787-9's. But we'll see. I am not convinced that a stand alone Delta will still be a reality in the future, and a lot depends on if anything is secretly going on in the way of mergers.
 
congaboy
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:48 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:27 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
Because of all of the bankruptcies, lease rates for many fleet types are down and DL will use the low lease rates to pick up used airplanes if they can be brought into the fleet quickly and inexpensively.

This makes a hell of alot of sense...on a personal level, it makes much more sense to me to buy a slightly used vehicle coming off of a lease than it is to buy a brand new car...a similar approach could be used with aircraft. As long as the aircraft fits a given economical and technical profile (such as cost of operation, seat config, avionics package, ETOPS, etc), why buy new?
"Joey, you like movies about gladiators?"
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1884
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:33 am

Concerning the MD80s ... consider this ...

What was the very, very first type to get the new interior ?

The '88s. That should tell volumes about which planes DL expects to stick around for a while ...

 Smile

Eventually they will order 787s to replace the 763's, but there's really not that much of a hurry to do so; the 763's they have are all getting the new interior and will be nice, bright and fresh once that's done.

What will be telling is if DL puts the IFE on the domestic 763's, like they plan for the 757s. If they do so, expect those birds to fly for the widget for some time to come.

- litz
 
phollingsworth
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:05 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting Congaboy (Reply 2):
1/ Replace/consolidate by removing and replacing the oldest, most expensive aircraft...that would be the 732's and the MD80's now. The tricky part is reviewing the capacity and applying it properly to the current and future market. So what do they choose to replace these? 736? E190/E195? A319/A320?

Any 732 replacement will have to be accompanied by lower per seat crew costs. This means down scaling to the E190/195 operated by lower payed pilots or upscaling, even with the new agreements the 736 and 318 are just too expensive for DL to operate. As for the MD88s, there is no direct replacement available on the market. the 73W and 319 are smaller and the 738 and 320 are larger. As WorldTraveler pointed out, DL has just substantially lowered the costs of their leased MD88s.

As for replacing the 767s that DL has now, there is no direct replacement offered for the majority of their fleet, only the 764s can be replaced by equivalently sized aircraft (332, 358, 783, 788). Furthermore, all of these aircraft, except the 783 would be extremely limited in their flexibility in the current DL system, their wingspans are too large. What has caused DL to shy away from further 738 and 772 deliveries is that their crew costs were totally outrageous as compared to the remainder of DL's fleet. This meant that DL would only use them on routes for which none of the smaller aircraft were capable, or where the combinations of load factors and yields were such to maximize the returns, this has also partially applied to the 764.
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Posts: 4919
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:35 am

What about the 787-3? It is an ideal replacement for the domestic 767-300s, where the 787-8's range is not needed. Some will argue that there will be no replacement for the domestic 767-300s, and will be replaced by more frequent 757s. Some domestic destinations warrant widebody service, such as ATL-MCO/TPA/MIA/FLL/JAX/PBI. The 787-3 could also use existing 767 gates at ATL.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
phollingsworth
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:05 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:39 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 11):
What about the 787-3? It is an ideal replacement for the domestic 767-300s, where the 787-8's range is not needed. Some will argue that there will be no replacement for the domestic 767-300s, and will be replaced by more frequent 757s. Some domestic destinations warrant widebody service, such as ATL-MCO/TPA/MIA/FLL/JAX/PBI. The 787-3 could also use existing 767 gates at ATL.


Geometrically the 783 would work, though capacity wise it is a 764 replacement, i.e. significantly larger than the 763. Also it does not have the range to complete the ATL/CVG-HNL missions.
 
User avatar
1337Delta764
Posts: 4919
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:02 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 12):
Geometrically the 783 would work, though capacity wise it is a 764 replacement, i.e. significantly larger than the 763. Also it does not have the range to complete the ATL/CVG-HNL missions.

For HNL flights, I personally think the 787-9 is a better aircraft. The seating capacity could actually depend on if Delta chooses a 2-4-2 or 3-3-3 seating arrangement.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
flybaby
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:20 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:04 am

Since all upcoming options for mid-sized long-haul equipment will have larger wingspan, wouldn't DL at some point need to start thinking about reconfiguring their ground setup in any case?

Replacing the 767s would also have the benefit of using larger ULD containers.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5188
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:27 am

You know, maybe this is heresy, given DL's desire to "simplify", but I wonder if expanding the very-fuel-efficient-and-dirt-cheap MD90 fleet wouldn't be an option. I don't think the 90s are going anywhere soon, as a recent press release touted them as "popular" when indicating that they'd be used from SLC to Toronto. And there's no real market for them.

Delta has a history of making lemonade out of lemons when times are lean, as they did with other airlines' L1011s. I wonder if the benefits of picking up some super-cheap, modern, efficient airframes might make an MD90 expansion plausible.

As to someone's suggestion that 732s could be replaced with 738s -- I really wish some folks would take the time to try to understand subjects like fleet/route planning, but I appreciate the very gentle responses that I saw to that post. Is a.net becoming more civilized?
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:31 am

IF rumors hold true in regards to the scope clause of the DL/DALPA TA...I would expect DL to replace its older narrowbody planes with regional type aircraft with cheaper pilots flying them.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:35 am

Its amazing that so many think DL is in the market for a new fleet at the moment......DL is still operating under the protection of the bankruptcy court and even the most optimistic projection is that they will be under the court's protection for atleast a year. Also remember that although the reps from the pilot's union have reached an agreement, DL's pilots still must vote on the deal.

The last thing on the mind of DL's management is new aircraft at this moment.
 
Delta4eva
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:20 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:50 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17):
DL is still operating under the protection of the bankruptcy court and even the most optimistic projection is that they will be under the court's protection for atleast a year.

Aircraft orders are a necessity for future expansion. They can quite easily make an order while in bankruptcy. In order to make money, you have to spend money. NW currently has 787s on order, and they are in bankruptcy. I can see the new pilot's agreement having pay rates for the 787 and I can see an order coming from DL as early as next year.
FLY DELTA JETS
 
CRJ900
Posts: 1944
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 18):
Aircraft orders are a necessity for future expansion.

How much more can they expand? They already have a HUGE fleet flying just about everywhere and Comair to fill in all the holes in the NA route system...

Didn't DL buy 120 x MD88, then one was lost and they replaced it with a new MD88? That shows how much they value the MD88s, I guess... As to the MD90, perhaps they should contact UNI Air (Taiwan) and JAL/JAS (Japan)... they are looking at replacing their MD90s - I'll bet they'll be happy to sell them to DL...
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 19):
Didn't DL buy 120 x MD88, then one was lost and they replaced it with a new MD88?

What MD88 did they lose exactly?

-G
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:44 am

Quoting Delta4eva (Reply 18):

Aircraft orders are a necessity for future expansion. They can quite easily make an order while in bankruptcy. In order to make money, you have to spend money. NW currently has 787s on order, and they are in bankruptcy. I can see the new pilot's agreement having pay rates for the 787 and I can see an order coming from DL as early as next year.

NW's orders were placed before NW entered bankrutpcy, and thus far, has not chosen to reject those orders - how NW will get those new 787s financed upon delivery is something that we do not yet know. Look, I really do hope that DL flies its way out of the bankruptcy court and survives and grows, but new aircraft orders are something that DL cant really think about yet. Refining and expanding the route system is one thing, buying new airplanes to do it with is another.
 
PSA727
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 21):
new aircraft orders are something that DL cant really think about yet. Refining and expanding the route system is one thing, buying new airplanes to do it with is another.

It's nice to see someone here use reality as a basis for thought.

Boeing would probably not want to sign a deal with Delta until there
is a clear date to exit BK protection. (Remember UA was there for
3 years, but initially thought it would last less than 16 months or so)

And when that time does come around, there will be so many backlog
orders for the 787, it will be years before any of us will see one in
Delta colors.

Remember, there are plenty of "healthy" customers ready to order,
or have already ordered, this aircraft.
I don't think that Boeing is willing to risk those deliveries in order to
provide Delta the capabilities to advance their glorious expansion
internationally more rapidly.

And as for the 732 and 733 replacements, think smaller not larger.
an E-170 or E-190 works better to solve over-capacity issues than
does a 738.
fly high, pay low...Germanwings!
 
DALelite
Posts: 1318
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 7:00 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:32 am

For thouse of you who are fluent in german, here is an article about Delta
saying that they are planing to revamp biz elite class with new seats and
an advanced IFE system. also a new economy product will be reveald plus
new uniforms and domestic Song will be integrated in domestic mainline.
www.wilde.de/aw/home/Referenzen/Kund...23608/~bip/Delta_Air_Lines_3341588

regards DALelite
They loved to fly and it showed..
 
KC135R
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 6:38 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 5):
I still contend that the A350 could easily makes it way into the DL fleet if Airbus is willing to price it low enough.

Is that even possible considering they signed a 25 year deal in 1997 to buy exclusively from Boeing? Or was that deal more symbolic than legal?

http://www.iht.com/articles/1997/03/21/delta.t.php
 
exusair
Posts: 658
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 12:15 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:34 am

Would be nice to see DL pick up the AS MD-88's that they are retiring. Since there is no post market for these planes, the lease rates will likely be quite favorable.

Move some 737-800 to SLC to replace the MD-90 flying and eliminate a fleet type.

As for wanting to see more widebody traffic in Florida, don't count on it. The LCC's have trashed Florida yields and in order to stabilize yields DL has removed capacity, hence the 737's and MD-88's replacing 767-300/400 flying.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting KC135R (Reply 24):

Is that even possible considering they signed a 25 year deal in 1997 to buy exclusively from Boeing? Or was that deal more symbolic than legal?

http://www.iht.com/articles/1997/03/...t.php

The contract is not enforceable, the contracts that Boeing had with DL (and CO and AA) covering this matter were voided in consideration of the EU not objecting to the Boeing/McD merger.

That being said, the spirit of those deals remain - while never say never in the airline world, I would be very surprised to see DL (or CO or AA) order anything but Boeing airliners in the coming years.
 
ThatPlaneGuy
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:05 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting N160LH (Reply 6):
4 or 5 of them... I think ships 6901 - 6904

N750AT 6902
N751AT 6901
N752AT 6904
N757AT 6903

I have flown these fine birds on The ATL - LIM route lots of times, and the interior configuration is slightly different to the standard B757s in the fleet.

Hope Delta overcomes all it's problems. I have had many happy flights with them.
Its about the airlines and the planes they fly
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:25 am

As I've posted elsewhere here, the MD90 is a viable alternative to MD80s; there just weren't enough of them built for there to be much of a market. And DL bought most of the MD88s that were produced.

Remember that DL picked up 10 of Eastern's L1011s when EA failed. They used them for another decade (some less than that) but considering that they cost 10% of new 767-300s, there was value in picking up used airplanes.

DL's fleet focus in the next few years will be on used domestic narrowbodies, a new domestic 100 seater, and ultralonghaul international aircraft. That is relatively inexpensive considering that the costliest part of the fleet (MD80s, 757s, 767s (int'l and dom) will not be replaced for at least 10 years.
 
flybaby
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:20 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:42 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 26):
That being said, the spirit of those deals remain - while never say never in the airline world, I would be very surprised to see DL (or CO or AA) order anything but Boeing airliners in the coming years.

They have called it "a gentlemen's agreement" between Boeing and the airlines since a formal exclusivity agreement was not enforcable due to the EU objections.
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 15):
I wonder if the benefits of picking up some super-cheap, modern, efficient airframes might make an MD90 expansion plausible.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 19):
Didn't DL buy 120 x MD88, then one was lost and they replaced it with a new MD88?

You may be referring to the one(the ship number escapes me at the moment)
that lost a wing due to a collision with a truck and subsequent fire. That one was repaired.

Perhaps it is the one that ripped the landing gear off on the end of the pier at LGA. It cost $14Million to fix but it is still in service.

Quoting Exusair (Reply 25):
Move some 737-800 to SLC to replace the MD-90 flying and eliminate a fleet type.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS!

The 738 is a much more reliable fleet for us than the MD-90 at least for those of us in mtc..

DL757MD
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
boeingfanyyz
Posts: 970
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:12 pm

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting Iloveboeing (Thread starter):
once their finances get cleared up

I think it will be a while before DL crosses that bridge, so to speak.

On topic, however, I believe that DL certainly resort to the B787's as a replacement for their aging 767's.

Does DL currently have the 764ER in their fleet?

Cheers,
Boeingfanyyz  airplane 
"If it aint boeing, it aint going!", "Friends are like condoms...they protect you when things get hard!"
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:19 am

Quoting Boeingfanyyz (Reply 31):
Does DL currently have the 764ER in their fleet?

Yes, we have 21 764ERs in our fleet.

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
deltaguy767
Posts: 639
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:32 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:21 am

Greetings All,
Here are my thoughts on DL's fleet strategy:

Shorthaul: DL will stick with the MD-88's for at least ten more years, and the 738's for fifteen to twenty. However DL would replace the 732's with an E-190 type aircraft or fewer 738 frequencies on the 733/2 routes.

Mediumhaul:DL will keep the 763's and the 757's running transcons and high density shorter routes like ATL-Florida. Update those with the Song IFE when able and keep the a/c for another ten years. Replace them eventually with 787-3.

Longhaul:DL will keep the 777/764/763ER running on only Int'l routes and using the 767's for Hawaii. Update those with Song style IFE in Y and update the BizElite product to improve DL's Int'l image. Keep the 763ER's for 15 years and the 777/764 models for 15-20 years. Eventually replace with 787-9 787-10 and 787-8 models and maybe 747ADV if they expand in Asia.

From BDL,  wave 
DeltaGuy767
A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5188
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:54 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 30):
Quoting Exusair (Reply 25):
Move some 737-800 to SLC to replace the MD-90 flying and eliminate a fleet type.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSS!

The 738 is a much more reliable fleet for us than the MD-90 at least for those of us in mtc..

Geez. No guts no glory, fer goodness sakes! Do you guys get paid just to stand around the hangar and eat donuts? More maintenance equals more mechanics needed. I'll bet you were happy when they retired the L1011s, too. If I were in maint, I'd want them to spend money on ME AND MY GUYS, rather than to Boeing Capital. Because it ain't gonna be both.
 
N160LH
Posts: 264
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:28 pm

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting Thatplaneguy (Reply 27):
I have flown these fine birds on The ATL - LIM route lots of times, and the interior configuration is slightly different to the standard B757s in the fleet.

I am by no means saying you are wrong because I frankly do not remember... But how are different from the rest of the fleet...?

N160LH
"I do alright up in the air, its down on the ground that I tend to mess up..."
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:18 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 34):
Geez. No guts no glory, fer goodness sakes! Do you guys get paid just to stand around the hangar and eat donuts? More maintenance equals more mechanics needed. I'll bet you were happy when they retired the L1011s, too. If I were in maint, I'd want them to spend money on ME AND MY GUYS, rather than to Boeing Capital. Because it ain't gonna be both.

I totally understand what you are saying. However I don't subscribe to that shortsighted selfish mindset. Delta is in business to move people from point A to point B while making money doing so. Having planes sit in the hangar, cancelling flight after flight because they're a piece of crap doesn't support that. I'm there to make sure your flight goes off as planned not to maintain a basketcase fleet. It's that kind of selfish, short-sighted thinking that which you stated, the pilots have demonstrated, and past management has gotten away with, that has Delta where it's at. So now you flame me for not wanting to perpetuate it? It ain't about donuts, it's about long term stability.

BTW Several years ago I made $100K+ two years in a row working L-1011 fuel leaks. Was I sad to see the plane go? No. I didn't particularly enjoy the work, or watching passengers get off a plane that wasn't going anywhere, their plans ruined, even if the money was good.

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:35 pm

Expect an order of 787 and 777 soon after the exit.

Count on it.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1884
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:18 pm

Quoting N160LH (Reply 35):
I am by no means saying you are wrong because I frankly do not remember... But how are different from the rest of the fleet...?

I was on one of these once, PHX-ATL ... there were no gaspers (the airvents above the seats), and the 2nd door area was configured differently - the bathroom was on the left wall, and I believe there was no galley, or only the aft part of the galley was installed (FA seat mounted on the wall by the bathroom) with a standard wall behind the F seats on the starboard side.

After having been on quite a few "normal" DL 757 flights, walking through that boarding door it was like "wha?" ...

 Smile

- litz
 
ThatPlaneGuy
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:05 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:09 pm

Quoting N160LH (Reply 35):
But how are different from the rest of the fleet...?



Quoting Litz (Reply 38):
After having been on quite a few "normal" DL 757 flights, walking through that boarding door it was like "wha?" ...

I believe that the business class cabin was also different, but the interior layout may have been due to the fact that these 4 aircraft were built for Singapore Airlines, and also flew with ATA before joing Delta.

There is also another "non standard" B757 in the fleet, N900PC 691. This one may have flown for Shanghai Airlines. I remember the illuminated seat belt signs were in Chinese as well as in English, but can't remember any other differences.

Overall I always enjoyed my DL flights, and especially those 4 B757-212 in the fleet that were used to Lima.

I think that the MD88 fleet will stay for a while yet, and will eventually be replaced by more of the B737 NG series. Can anyone shed some light on the difference in fuel burn and costs when comparing the MD88 to the B738?

What about the MD90s will they go, and be replaced by more MD88s? If yes where will they be sourced from....IB, AR? or just replaced with further B738s?

For longhaul flights it would be good to see more B777, but also the B767s in the fleet can be upgraded with newer or better IFE and other enhancements. The crews on board always give good service, and I have had many good flights with DL over the years.

Does anyone think that Delta may even order or lease the A350 if when the time comes no B787s are available?
Its about the airlines and the planes they fly
 
dl757md
Posts: 1482
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 9:32 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:37 pm

Quoting Thatplaneguy (Reply 39):
Does anyone think that Delta may even order or lease the A350 if when the time comes no B787s are available?

I was talking to one of our pilots that I've known since long before either of us worked for Delta. He said that a leasing company (he named the company but I've forgotten due to my cronic case of CRS) recently ordered around 30 787s with no prospective buyer. I know it's just speculation but he seemed to think that they are earmarked for DL. If this is true then I would think that there is 0 chance that DL would purchase the A350. Not that I put much stock in the notion before I heard the above info.

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
Av8rDAL
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 1:41 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:17 pm

My Prescription for DL:

--Upgraded/Overhauled Longhaul product including: BizElite upgrades to be on par with competition, PTVs in coach, option of XM or Sirius, and the return of free alcohol (I'm not kidding, people at work would rather fly LH to Germany since beer and booze are free yet the rest of the Coach experience is pretty much the same). Maybe keep it a 1-2 free drink minimum, anything after that at a per-drink cost. Introduce meal options selectable at booking- either the standard chx/beef/pasta or a gourmet meal at additional (profitable) charge. Introduce profitable WiFi in entire cabin. Add winglets to 757 and maybe 76- and 777, if it's possible, to save fuel. Plan on oil prices going to $100/bbl- it's just a matter of time, they've got nowhere to go but up. I guess consider 788s or A350 for replacements, but i dont see Airbus in DL's future unless the price is too good to pass up.

--Short Haul-domestic
Winglets on 738s. Replace 732s with E190s as needed, MD88s with 737s. Older 752s with 737-900s maybe, or if DL begins to use Airbus, then A320s or A321s. The mindset for DL Domestic should be that of AirTran or JetBlue- get people from A to B and on time. If they want food, they can buy it on board or bring a ham sandwich from a gateside vendor's cold-case.

--Long Haul-domestic (HNL, ANC, west coast-east coast):
The 763s should continue with this, older 763ERs being retired from international service being used on these routes like the L1011 did before its final retirement. Standard meals on flights longer than 5 hours. Maybe add PTVs to those 763s, but replace BizElite with domestic First to add pax and fare revenue.

Basically, the business plan should be to compete seriously world-class international carriers like BA to Europe and lean discounters like AirTran domestically. Long-haul domestic should be a hybrid of sorts- do some market research and figure out what pax like and what they could care less about when the flight's more than 4-5 hours and trim service accordingly. DL will never be the airline it used to be; it must be the airline of tomorrow, if it wants to survive and be successful.

Here's to the Widget holdin' down the fort in ATL! <>
Maintain thine airspeed, lest the Earth rise up and smite thee.
 
User avatar
Aeroflot777
Posts: 2995
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:36 pm

I bit off topic, but.. What exactly is DL planning on doing with their 763ERs. What are they changing in the BizElite? Will it be lie-flat? What about economy, what kind of changes can we expect in that cabin?

Aeroflot777
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:44 pm

While not in the cards in the near future, DL was strongly interested in the 772LR. While polar routing to China puts cities like PVG and PEK in the range envelope of the 772ER, a 772LR would save them from having to restrict payload when the winds were bad while allowing them to carry more payload when the winds were good (thanks to the higher MTOW and greater thrust).
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting Av8rDAL (Reply 41):
My Prescription for DL:

I hope that you have many billions of dollars to contribute to the Delta Airlines Improvement Fund.....
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1884
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 42):
I bit off topic, but.. What exactly is DL planning on doing with their 763ERs. What are they changing in the BizElite? Will it be lie-flat? What about economy, what kind of changes can we expect in that cabin?

AFAIK, biz-elite isn't getting lie-flat ... and most of the changes should go into place after the busy summer season.

Right now, DL needs every piece of shiny metal it can get its hands on, airborne, as their profitability (we hope) this summer will likely make or break their '07 emergence from BK court.

Changes will be the new blue leather interiors, eventually Song's IFE setup on longhaul flights (the international routes won't have the sat-tv, as that's receivable in the domestic US only), and the new biz-elite on the 763-ERs rerouted to international routes.

Right now, they're concentrating on the new interiors, leaving the biz-elite and IFE upgrades for later ... a new interior can go in literally in days, while the bizelie/IFE changes take longer.

And an airplane out of service is an airplane not making money, something they need very badly.

- litz
 
flybaby
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 5:20 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 45):
AFAIK, biz-elite isn't getting lie-flat ... and most of the changes should go into place after the busy summer season.

The letter I got from DL said the new bizelite will be available starting this spring. Probably just a marketing ploy though meaning that you won't see it in reality until later. I have a couple of bizelite flights on the 777 in June, I guess I'll see then.

It said the new seats would have "adapter-free" power outlets. That would definitely be nice.
 
User avatar
Aeroflot777
Posts: 2995
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:21 am

Quoting Litz (Reply 45):
Changes will be the new blue leather interiors, eventually Song's IFE setup on longhaul flights (the international routes won't have the sat-tv, as that's receivable in the domestic US only), and the new biz-elite on the 763-ERs rerouted to international routes.

Thanks, but will we see any concrete changes in the international 763ER economy class? Will those go leather too??

Aeroflot777
 
User avatar
litz
Posts: 1884
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting FlyBaby (Reply 46):
The letter I got from DL said the new bizelite will be available starting this spring. Probably just a marketing ploy though meaning that you won't see it in reality until later. I have a couple of bizelite flights on the 777 in June, I guess I'll see then.

I think that's for the 777's that already have bizelite (or anything else that already has it) ... it's a LOT easier to mod existing bizelite than it is to reconfigure an existing airframe to add it ...

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 47):
Thanks, but will we see any concrete changes in the international 763ER economy class? Will those go leather too??

I would be shocked if they don't go leather too - that's a change they are implementing fleet-wide. I've seen it on MD88s, 738s, 757s, and 763s.

The new leather seats are really quite comfortable, once they're broken in.

- litz
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL Future Fleet Plans

Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:13 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 47):
Thanks, but will we see any concrete changes in the international 763ER economy class? Will those go leather too??

Yes, they'll be leather as well.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.